You Betta Recognize That It’s FAR Better To Be A Divorced Mother Than A Never-Married Mother With Out Of Wedlock Children

Welcome to the sixth installment of an ongoing series of You Betta Recognize posts. A recent conversation raised a number of points that can’t be emphasized enough to young African-American women and girls. Especially those young Black women and girls who are at risk of being confused by the Fantasy Island arguments raised by the crabs-in-a-barrel, unwed Baby Mama Mafia who had their children out of wedlock (oow). Instead of wanting future generations of African-American girls to have better lives, Baby Mama Mafia members want to see other young Black women fall into that same trap of unnecessary hardships. Deborrah Cooper talked about this in her video, Crabs in a Barrel: Baby Mommas That Want Others To Suffer Too. She told the plain truth!

If you know any naive young African-American women, please send them to this post so they can hear some details the Baby Mama Mafia won’t tell them.

MARRIAGE PROVIDES MANY AUTOMATIC PROTECTIONS FOR CHILDREN

The Horrors Of OOW Paternity Cases
While responding to a reader named Hodan, I said,

Hodan,

You said, “I agree, marriage is a beautiful union, even if 50% of the people get a divorce, at least they were married once.”

I’m always annoyed to hear AA slaves who are busy breeding throngs of oow children talk this mess about divorce. What they pretend not to understand is that even in cases of divorce, women and children are automatically protected simply because of the original marriage!

For just one example, in my jurisdiction, the children born to a woman during the course of a marriage are legally PRESUMED to be her husband’s children. He’s legally presumed to be their father. And it’s on the husband to produce evidence that the child is not his! This means that the husband is automatically assumed to be responsible for the financial support of any children born to his wife during his marriage.

For women seeking child support, that’s a huge difference. There’s a big difference between a married woman and her children benefiting from the legal presumption that the husband is the father; as opposed to an unmarried woman having a greater risk of being subjected to interrogatories (legal questionnaires) and depositions (being questioned under oath) about the dates and other details of her sexual encounters with the man she claims is her baby daddy.

In the past, I’ve defended men in oow paternity cases, and have done opposing depositions of unmarried women who had oow babies. I found those proceedings to be extremely unpleasant for everybody involved. I do my best to fulfill my duty to zealously defend my clients. All of them. For me, worst of all with those paternity cases was when I subpoenaed the diaries of those baby mamas who kept them—and then had to read through those diaries. Just in case there were references to other alleged sexual partners during the period of the oow child’s conception. {skin crawling at the memory}

THIS type of experience is what women set themselves up for when they have  oow babies, and then try to get child support from an unwilling baby daddy.

Marriage confers a baseline level of dignified treatment to women involved in various processes, including the mechanics of breaking up (aka divorce) when there are children. There’s nothing dignified about some woman with an oow child having to answer detailed questions about her sexual practices and history in order to have an unwilling man legally found to be her baby daddy. That’s not cute, nice, or liberated. AA slaves need to stop tripping as if they don’t understand the many benefits of legal marriage.

A reader named Zoopath replied,

Subpoenaed diaries??? WTH?? I am just flabbergasted, I had no idea that the court system actually went there. What’s the diary going to have in it that a cheek swab wouldn’t? No, that is not cute, liberated or nice. Why is this the first time I’m hearing about this? None of the NWNW [No Wedding, No Womb] detractors sang the praises of having strangers going all up and through your diary and other private matters.

I said,

ZooPath,

{mirthless chuckling at your horrified reaction—yes, women—and the people who love any individual woman including her Daddy, brothers, and other relatives and friends—SHOULD be horrified by these details}

You said, “Subpoenaed diaries??? WTH?? I am just flabbergasted, I had no idea that the court system actually went there.”

Why wouldn’t the court system go there? A paternity suit is a lawsuit. Just like any other lawsuit over any other topic.

You said, “What’s the diary going to have in it that a cheek swab wouldn’t?”

This gets back to the “paternity suits are lawsuits just like any other lawsuit” reality. In every case (whether it’s criminal or civil), the litigants are entitled to engage in what’s called “discovery.” In basic terms, “discovery” means finding out everything that’s potentially relevant to the topic of the lawsuit. The whole purpose of discovery is so that there won’t be any totally surprise witnesses, testimony, or documentary evidence at any trial. The purpose is to prevent TV-style, trial by ambush situations.

So, even before any paternity test results are back—and even after the purported results are in—the parties can file questionnaires that have to be answered by the opposing litigant. Part of the questionnaire process is to demand that the opposing party turn over papers or any other documents that might have some bearing on the topic of the lawsuit.

The parties can also conduct depositions (pre-trial questioning under oath) of opposing parties and their witnesses.

In my jurisdiction, when the numbers on the paternity test results (referred to as the “combined paternity index”) are greater than a certain number, then there’s a presumption of paternity. [I can’t quote the current threshold number because it’s been over a decade since I defended a paternity case—the threshold number might have changed since then.]

However, be that as it may, the unwilling man is still entitled to a trial process and the benefit of all the mechanics involved in a trial. Which means that he’s entitled to engage in “discovery.”

A paternity suit is a lawsuit like any other lawsuit. In any lawsuit, the lawyers are going to spend a LOT of time and energy finding out ALL the specific details involved in the topic of the lawsuit.

So, to put it in blunt terms, when a baby mama wants to have legal responsibilities IMPOSED on an unwilling potential baby daddy, then detailed information about the following circumstances surrounding the birth of that oow child becomes relevant:

1-Who else the baby mama was screwing during the period of conception;

2-Her stated (or not) use of birth control during the period of conception;

3-The frequency of the sex she claims she had with the unwilling alleged baby daddy during the period of conception;

4(a)-What she told other people (if anything) about other men who might also potentially be her oow child’s biological father;

4(b)-What she might have said in her own diaries/journals about other men who might also potentially be her oow child’s biological father;

5-And other unsavory topics concerningthe baby mama’s activities during the period of conception (criminal activities such as prostitution? drug use? party-hearty-ing?).

You said, “No, that is not cute, liberated or nice.”

NO, it’s not. It’s all quite degrading. But them’s the breaks when a woman chooses to give birth OUTSIDE the protections of marriage.

You said, “Why is this the first time I’m hearing about this? None of the NWNW detractors sang the praises of having strangers going all up and through your diary and other private matters.”

I can think of several reasons, including:

1-Dishonesty. From what I’ve seen, the NWNW detractors are fundamentally dishonest. Anybody who’s pretending not to know that there are almost uniformly negative consequences to oow is a LIAR.

2-Embarassment. How many women are going to talk about the nitty-gritty details of being put through some mess like what I described above?

3-Luck. Some baby mamas are lucky in that their baby daddies never show up to court to quibble about the proceedings. So court orders are entered without his participation or active resistance. Or they’re lucky in that their baby daddy has a lawyer that isn’t all that diligent or thorough.

**Addendum**

And let me add that it’s usually the most naive women who are most emotionally battered by the court experience of having legal fatherhood imposed on an unwilling AA Negro male. Dishonest women generally don’t document their lies in diaries or journals. Or they’ll lie and claim not to write any diaries at all when they do keep diaries.

I’m thinking back to this one pathetic plaintiff whose diary was filled with pleas to Jesus to make the unwilling AA Negro male care about their baby…{skin crawling at the memory}

[And from what I saw while doing rotations in the local paternity/child support courtrooms, it was mostly AA Negro males who wanted to fight the hardest to try to escape legal responsibility for their children. Including the AA males who were shacked up with their baby mama before, during and after the pregnancy in question.

In fact, I had one AA Negro male client who *cough* allegedly *cough* paid some other AA Negro male to take the paternity test for him. So then I had to defend him against a criminal contempt of court charge. During the trial of this new charge, I ended up doing an extensive cross examination of the Chicago Police Department fingerprint analyst who examined the fingerprints and photos taken of the man, err…the male client…*cough* who had showed up at the lab for the paternity test. That particular client was found not guilty of criminal contempt of court.

Men from other ethnic groups were much more likely to happily claim their children. Many Mexican men didn’t want a paternity test when it was offered to them. In general, something had to be really wrong with a Mexican woman for the man to accept having a paternity test done. With White men it was 50/50, it could go either way in terms of them asking for a paternity test. Unlike so many AA Negro males, they usually stopped resisting being legally found to be the biological father after the test results were in.]

THE DIFFERENCE MARRIAGE MAKES IN TERMS OF DEATH BENEFITS

A reader named Oshun/Aphrodite mentioned,

There is a woman who was shacked up and I can recall 2 incidents in the past year where she staunchly defended her decision – not that anyone ever attacked her directly- only the concept of having a family via co-habitation.

Well her co-habiting male partner died recently. They have two young children together. A three year old and a one year old.

The guy had an ok job, but now she is begging for money to bury this man and take care of other expenses as she didn’t work and I can only assume that they are now in some kind of financial storm.

I said,

But of course she and her oow babies are now in the middle of a financial sh*tstorm. That’s exactly what she set herself AND her babies up for when she decided to shack and have oow.

Too bad, so sad. Reality does not wait for anybody to purchase a clue before it starts impacting their life. I hope the other women and young girls in her orbit are taking careful notes about how this woman foolishly put herself AND her babies in a vulnerable spot by shacking and oow.

A reader named Magenta said,

I can’t even keep count of all the OOW horror stories that involve a woman (and her children) being left in financial ruin after her live in baby daddy dies unexpectedly.

You have already covered how an OOW mother has to “prove” that the baby daddy really is the father during CS proceedings. The same applies for death benefits. The baby mama usually gets a very rude awakening that she or her children are not entitled to anything and that any retirement, pension, insurance will most likely go to her deceased baby daddy’s next of kin (his mother, sister, etc).

I have always found it peculiar that OOW proponents do not talk about these stories. I guess like you say, they are too embarrassed to do so.

It has also been a suspicion of mine that the reason why so many BW get caught up in “Kemba Smith” situations is because they do not have the protections that spousal privilege provides. Look at all the WW wives of serial killers who have NEVER been to jail. Look at all the mob wives who got off scott free. Yet it seems the girlfriends and baby mamas of drug dealers are always getting caught up?

I have been so furious with NWNW opponents. They know good and well that marriage provides a host of protections when it comes to inheritance, property rights, spousal privilege, etc.

I said,

I’ve never directly dealt with death benefits, but I would expect them to operate as you described—the unwed baby mama has a much harder way to go (than a wife does) to get her hands on the dead baby daddy’s benefit money.

. . . I would guess that it’s a combination of marital privilege AND WM’s basic orientation to function as THE Main/Sole Breadwinner for their families.

From what I’ve observed of serious WM criminals (WM who are busy being Mr. Crystal Meth Man and Mr. Oxycontin Dealer), it appears that they carry over this same “I’M the main breadwinner” mentality to their criminal activities.

So, from what I can tell, these WM criminals are less likely to have their women heavily participating in their criminal activities. Unlike AA Negro males who expect BW to do heavy lifting in general, and to be heavily involved in being the breadwinner for the couple/family unit. All of which puts the foolish, mulish BW at greater risk when she’s involved with a BM criminal.

. . . I hear you [about the No Wedding, No Womb detractors]. They either play dumb and pretend not to be aware of these realities; or lie and claim to know of so many exceptions to the rules. It’s outrageous. Now, I expected the Baby Mama Mafia to be shrill in their self-justifications of their own oow mess. But as the NWNW organizer and others have stated, NWNW isn’t about those women who’ve already messed up and had oow. It’s about showing young AA women and girls a better way. A better way that will prevent them from having to surrender their life dreams.

What I find sickening is that these grown-a**, crabs in a barrel, baby mamas are willing and eager to see young BW and girls fall into the same traps that they fell into! So, they deliberately cloud the issue and spread all these lies about how the real world operates. All the while KNOWING that young BW and girls are reading these conversations online. That’s downright EVIL. And I firmly believe that these lying heifers are going to have to answer for that in the afterlife.

A (law student) reader named Robynne said,

True – and if the man died intestate (without a will), all his property will revert to his blood relatives. So right off the bat she ain’t getting nothing (unless she lives in one of the 12 (or 4?) states where common law marriage is recognized, and even then, there is no guarantee because you have to meet a whole bunch of requirements to qualify…) Since he was not married to the mother, there is no legal presumption that he is the father of the children. If the elements establishing paternity aren’t apparent, callous relatives of the man who do not care for the children could plausibly fight the devolution of property to children on the basis that he was not really the father. It’s just a real mess. Seriously, people – especially bw – really need to start thinking. Women of other groups seem to understand this pretty well.

. . . Lol, sorry, I did not read Magenta’s comment before I posted. What she stated is essentially what I said. Yes, if the baby mamma was married, his property upon death would revert to her. Even if he had a will cutting her off completely, every single state has in place laws guaranteeing such wives dower or an elective share (usually one-third of the deceased spouse’s estate), so no matter what she won’t be completely cut off. This is yet another benefit of marriage that the NWNW opponents gaily ignore.

Author Roslyn Holcomb said,

And that’s where the stupid comes in. As a widow she would be entitled to collect his Social Security when she reaches retirement age. This is where white women make out like a bandit–they work less than any other group, and live longer. And because they marry they collect Social Security at the significantly higher male rate instead of the peanuts women usually earn. Her children are also entitled to survivor’s benefits. This would be automatic had she been married, now she has to prove paternity.

A reader named Pioneer Valley Woman (blog host of Episcopalienne) said,

Ah yes, I have taught this in my women’s history class. Read the Uniform Parentage Act–it is easy to find on the web. It explains all Khadija is talking  about. A father is a man married to a woman who has given birth or a single man who has acknowledged paternity. The cases Khadija is talking about fits in here. If a woman is a baby-mama, she can only put in the father’s name if he agrees to it. So what happens when he refuses to? Thus, the litigation.

If no daddy’s is named, he is an “unknown.” Is that how the baby mamas want their children to go throughout life, the first official document that records the birth lists the father as “unknown”????? Think of who sees that document–schools, passport agencies and so forth–what are they going to think of in looking at you–having a baby by an “unknown…?” He could be any random dude anywhere…

The baby mamas really need to stop tripping….

Finally, a reader named Lisa99 mentioned,

More to add to that… from what I remember, you only had to have been married to the man for 10 years to qualify for said benefits.

So, I could marry a man with a reasonable income and he could divorce me on the first day after our 10th anniversary and I would STILL be entitled to social security in my retirement based on HIS earnings.

I am getting married soon and even though I do okay for myself, my future husband makes almost 50% more than I do! So if we stay married for just 10 years (although I’m hoping for a lifetime, of course), then I’m guaranteed to be much better off financially in my retirement than I would be alone.

THIS needs to be the answer to the folks who say, “Well, since 50% of all couples divorce, you have a good chance of being a single mother anyway.” First, the 50% rate has never been proven accurate (that’s a topic for another thread), but even if I do divorce, I’m still much better off (financially and legally) as a divorced single mother than I am as a never married mother of OOW children.

What Lisa99 said is the bottom line that everybody except African-Americans seems to understand.

You help protect your children’s futures by making sure that you’re married when you give birth to them!

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96 Responses to “You Betta Recognize That It’s FAR Better To Be A Divorced Mother Than A Never-Married Mother With Out Of Wedlock Children”

  1. YMB says:

    I have not been following the debates, but has anyone seen what have the NWNW detractors’ reactions have been to statements about how baby mamas and OOW children do not receive the same monetary benefits as married women and legitimate children? I’m curious because it seems like so many black male-identified AAW have it so twisted that they think it is wrong gold-digging behavior to expect anything from a man in terms of support. I would not be surprised to see them actively saying it is wrong or women to actively seek the financial protections of marriage, even though they feel it is ok for everyone else to be forced to support their OOW children through “programs”.

    Basically I am saying, I think the expectations of these women are already so low for themselves, their children, and for other AAW, and so far removed from humans norms that they don’t/won’t have a problem with not receiving the benefits of marriage (at least not in theory, the reality of their existence is quite different). They never anticipated having any kind of beneficial relationship with a man.

  2. YMB,

    You said, “I have not been following the debates, but has anyone seen what have the NWNW detractors’ reactions have been to statements about how baby mamas and OOW children do not receive the same monetary benefits as married women and legitimate children?”

    The NWNW hecklers that I’ve seen thus far either: (1) play dumb about the automatic protections that married women and legitimate children receive; or they (2) lie and pretend to know of a lot of baby mamas who somehow mananged to arrange similar protections, and got the same amount of monetary benefits as a wife. {yeah, right}

    However, I don’t really care about the Baby Mama Mafia who have already screwed up their own lives and want to see younger BW join them in falling into the same oow trap. I want the huge differences between marriage and oow broadcast among young, naive AA women and girls. Young AA women and girls who might not know a single married woman in real life, and are surrounded by loud and proud baby mamas (who demand that they join them in their misery).

    I did this post to specifically counter the Baby Mama Mafia bullsh*t argument that marriage doesn’t matter because of the divorce rate. Marriage ALWAYS matter—and it matters the most to the children who are involved. More AA women must get the same clues that women from every other race and ethnic groups have, and never forget this fact!

    You said, “Basically I am saying, I think the expectations of these women are already so low for themselves, their children, and for other AAW, and so far removed from humans norms that they don’t/won’t have a problem with not receiving the benefits of marriage (at least not in theory, the reality of their existence is quite different). They never anticipated having any kind of beneficial relationship with a man.”

    The women whose thought patterns are that far away from normal human women’s thinking are already lost souls. Lost souls and crabs in a barrel who are actively trying to bring other AA women and girls down with them. The rest of us need to write them off as casualties. My point is to inform young AA women and girls about the inherent benefits of following the HUMAN norm of marriage before giving birth.

    Expect Success!

  3. Evia says:

    they feel it is ok for everyone else to be forced to support their OOW children through “programs”.

    It’s not just those programs that they expect to get support from, many OOW mothers AND the bc also directly AND INDIRECTLY drain other bw by expecting and guilting other bw (mother, sister, girlfriends, grandmom, aunts, cousins, sister-so-and so at the church, etc.) to help to support them by giving them energy, time, money, free-babysitting, etc. Many black churches also pressure bw there to help other bw with their OOW kids. This is common. The appeal is made by saying something like: “You’ve got to help these kids because you know that the mothers of these kids are out there partying or __________and don’t know how to be mothers,” and etc. This is an indirect way of getting mutiple helpers to assist these OOW mothers.

    Anyway, Khadija, this is why I started from DAY 1 campaigning for MARRIAGE. AA women are never going to even get close to living as well as other groups of women IF a large portion of them don’t get married to QUALITY men. DUH!! This is not new knowledge. It’s been known for thousands of years. So,I like to directly cut to the chaste in reminding bw about this OLD knowledge. LOL!

    IMO, for best results, as many of us as possible need to push key PILLARS of uplift for AA women and I strongly believe those to be: Education (of the uplifting type, in all of its forms) And Marriage, built on a sound belief system of spirituality (of the woman’s choosing). Spiritual development and constant spiritual growth are VERY important. As I’ve said, as long as the bc and bw continue to contort their thinking and behavior to match the thinking and behaviors of DBRbm, AA women are going to wallow in the squalor that many of them are in this morning. This is guaranteed.

    AA women must simply BLOCK OUT the masses of AA men, and act as if they don’t exist. This is mainly because so many AA women cannot VET bm well. If they could vet them well, they could pick out the better, quality AA men, but the bulk of AA women simply don’t seem to be able to do this.

  4. Lisa99 says:

    Here’s another trap — listening to unmarried mothers outside the United States who inject their opinions about marriage into a discussion about AA women.

    There is one woman blogger (of African descent) who is staunchly anti-marriage. Fine, I don’t care. But she has come on some BWE blogs and flat out said that she sees NO benefit that marriage gives a woman.

    Now, I was thankful that someone pointed out that this woman is from Canada. I have no idea about family law in Canada (nor do I care to find out since I’m not moving to Canada nor marrying a Canadian), but I assume Canada is more liberal in its benefits to OOW children and unmarried mothers.

    So all of this is great — if you are CANADIAN. But don’t be a black Canadian coming into a discussion with black AMERICANS and telling black AMERICANS that there is no benefit to marriage, when AMERICAN law clearly protects married (or formerly married) women and children of marital unions significantly more than it does non-married women and OOW kids. In fact, non-married women aren’t protected at all.

    Also, I don’t want to hear about Sweden or have Scandinavian women (including some of African descent) telling me about how marriage is no big deal or “not for them,” and how their life is much better without it. Again, that’s their choice, but it is completely irrelevant in an AMERICAN context.

    People can have their opinions, but it is a flat out LIE from the pit of Hades to say that there are no benefits to marriage, and it’s especially trifling for a non-American woman to be making this statement to Americans.

    • Faith says:

      Do I have to name names, lol! This blogger often discounts marriage which is why I’ve had to mention her nationality at my site the last time she did her “detraction dance”.

      Other countries do provide more protections i.e gov’t programs BUT those are slowly going away there as well because of the mass influx of foreigners draining the resources of these countries. And yes Denmark, Iceland and other Scandavian/Nordic countries do have large percentages of never-married mothers but they are mostly native WHITE populations and it’s by CHOICE.

      Also, these countries are the size of a smaller US state which is hardly the scale we’re dealing with here. The second the quality of life for those white children start dwindling (via education under-performance, standard of living, lack of competitiveness) things will change with a quickness.

      Again, this comes down to some women taking their “feminism” message to the extreme where it promotes dysfunctional behavior.

      As for that blogger since she’s mentioned this publicly I feel comfortable repeating it. Her happily unmarried status that she promotes is in opposition to her own parent’s long term marriage as well as her mate’s previous two failed marriages to other women (who were also white) as she’s in an interracial relationship. I don’t know if her unmarried status is by choice or resignation – nor do I want to.

      I don’t always put people on blast as when we have a strong emotional but irrational response to situations it’s usually an indication of some underlying issue but this all goes to show why we need to take what other people say (esp other BLACK WOMEN who are encouraging us to embrace the cesspool) with a grain of salt and realize their values and standards are not necessarily our own or what’s most beneficial.

      • Lisa99 says:

        That’s right, it was your blog where that took place! 🙂

        I agree… I’m not one to put people on blast either, but I definitely agree that when someone is expressing an opinion (or information that is not relevant to the majority of the intended audience), one should definitely know the background of the poster so that readers are not misled.

    • Hodan says:

      lol, as a Canadian, I would say Canadian family law is even more conservative in certain aspect. Yes, we do recognize Common Law union without marriage, if the couple have been together about 10 yrs and children are present. Recently, common law marriage is defined within a year living together, so the government want to make sure the baby daddy does not expect the tax payers to bail them out. It changed because most of the single mothers on welfare or taking government benefits are often black women and few Hispanics without a father in sight. There are a lot of social benefits, but Family Court is a nightmare when you need to prove he fathered your child and trying to get child benefit.

      France is the only country in the West with broad protection for children with and without the sanctity of marriage. In fact, out of wedlock child has the right to inherit his father’s state. Its done because common law union is largely practiced by rich white elites in the country, as supposed to its growing religious minority communities, whether African or Arab.

  5. **Let’s repeat a life-saving analysis that Evia recently made over at Halima’s blog**

    As I said in a recent conversation, these NWNW detractors aren’t stupid. They’re dishonest. And their motives are as Evia described them during a recent comment at Halima’s blog:

    Halima, virtually all of the confusion among bw regarding this issue and many others is due to bw contorting themselves to accommodate the damaged thinking and behavior of bm. If AA men became cannibals, a large share of AA women would become cannibals too. It wouldn’t take long.

    Since the bulk of black males in the West have adopted the thinking and behaviors that are out of sync with the norms of most cultures, societies and groups in the world, black women suicidally adjust their thinking and behavior to follow suit. This is THE pattern of behavior of the masses of bw.

    For ex. I cannot imagine more than a handful (if even that many) of bw arguing that it’s fine for them to have massive numbers of children OOW by white men or Asian men. LOL! They would NEVER do that. It’s only because they’re having these children by black males who won’t marry them and assume the role of men and responsible fathers, that these women are making this foolish argument.

    I’ve noticed these patterns where the black male is the common denominator:

    1. Since it’s the norm for the bulk of AA women of the lower socioeconomic demographic these days allow AA males to convince them that marriage is not necessary and/or allow these males to dictate the terms of the interaction or relationship, bw in general end up doing exactly what bm want (no matter how self-destructive) IF they are to have an ongoing interaction or relationship with a typical AA male. He makes her understand that this is simply the price that she has to pay for that “relationship.”

    2. SOME bw are losing interest in or tamping down their pursuit of higher education because that’s what they have to do to remain around the bulk of bm and/or remain non-threatening and non-“bougie” to large numbers of AA males/men for sure. This is the same as some black students letting their grades drop so that they won’t be accused of “acting white” which makes it tougher or virtually impossible for them to be accepted by the ABCs. This is the price they must pay.

    3. Many younger bw (some from working class/middle class) are now going to prison at much higher rates these days BECAUSE they are engaging in “relationships” with criminally oriented bm. These women end up as unwitting accomplices or also engaging in criminal behavior since this is the boyfriend’s lifestyle. This is the price she has to pay to keep him.

    And let’s be real about this. There is only a relative small proportion of younger AA men, for sure, who don’t fit one or more of the profiles above. Many of the bm who are in the relative small portion of “good” “normal” upwardly mobile bm who don’t, do not want/choose a typical bw unless she has looks, hair, makeup, clothes, mannerisms, etc.) that resembles Beyonce’s or Halle’s or some other deified woman.

    None of this would be so bad IF it could be kept contained among the lower demographic (since ALL groups have a lower demographic), but among AAs, this self-destructive mindset and behavior continues to creep up and up into the middle class black girl or bw’s thinking and behavior. Why? It’s because so many AA women and bw of that type have been programmed for centuries to be self-sacrificing for non-reciprocating, hateful bm.

    Errant bm’s thinking and behavior really need a highly publicized chop-down by powerful men. As long as these DBRbm of all socioeconomic levels are allowed to reign supreme in their damaged thinking and behavior, more and more bw are going to adjust and accommodate themselves to fit into the damage. Or until bw can radically alter this chokehold programming, nothing much can change.

    http://dateawhiteguy.blogspot.com/2010/10/what-would-white-feminsists-do.html

  6. Anonymiss says:

    Hey Khadija:

    No, let them continue to glorify single parenthood. Let them glorify generational poverty. Let them glorify the unnecessary stress of dual parenting. Let them think that the government is supposed to help them out because they don’t wanna use birth control.

    America doesn’t feel like they have to help you raise your unplanned family. Especially when condoms and a bevy of birth control methods are readily available. America’s providing more than enough help on that end.

    I just couldn’t take some of the dissenting voices that made it seem as though NWNW is trying to put a padlock on Black vulvae and/or is putting down all single mothers. From what I’ve read from some of the essays on NWNW, they’re encouraging Black women and girls to wait and be better prepared for parenting. They’re empowering Black women and girls. What is so sexist and insulting about that?

    So what if you’re a successful product of a Black single mother? I bet your mother didn’t wanna be one and wouldn’t want you to end up as one either. I bet she cried a lot over the stress of dual parenting. And NWNW isn’t really geared towards higher-earning, single Black moms either. NWNW is reaching out to young Black women and girls who are surrounded by misery-wielding vultures.

    All of the sensible, non-hating single mothers that I grew up with or met along the way are happy that I’m waiting for marriage and not struggling or stressed out like them because single parenthood is not a cake walk. They’ve actually said they’re jealous of me or that I’m lucky.

    But more and more, I’m meeting hateful, bitter, and inept mothers making my ovaries their d@mned business: “So how old are you? How come you didn’t have any kids yet?” Ummm…am I supposed to? People who think a woman is supposed to have kids are under the impression that you haven’t fulfilled your place on earth or haven’t arrived as a woman unless you’ve spawned. My cousin’s wife advised me to become a single mother and not wait for marriage. I said “I don’t wanna be a single mom” and she said “Wives are already single moms. Children are for the women to enjoy.” Well who forced her to marry my playboy cousin and mother his kids?

    My sister, a single mother of a soon-to-be two-year-old, is dealing with the drama of a deadbeat. He never wanted to be there for my nephew. She’s made all of these concessions for him to pay child support and still he doesn’t pay. I can count on one hand the number of paltry payments he’s made to her. Now she’s considering pursuing child support and she’s dragging her feet with that.

    I love my sister but I do not feel sorry for her. At all. I feel sorry for my nephew. It’s not his fault that his mom was a motherhood idolater and that his dad’s a deadbeat.

    I’ve been talking with my sister regularly and I always hang up depressed. I’d never, ever wanna be in her shoes. And I will never, ever be in her shoes. I am sick and tired of these stupid women lying about single motherhood. There’s no beauty in struggling to provide for your child. There’s no beauty in having to consider lying to your child about the whereabouts of his father. There’s no beauty in being extremely stressed over having to be a dual parent.

    You can miss me with that.

    • rainebeaux says:

      Yes, Anonymiss…ALLL this. I’ve written my take on the anti-NWNW kerfuffle, and my next post or so will reflect some last words. If I, a shamefully unwed mom, can’t get through these miserable women, they can just drown. Let me focus on those who are salvageable.

      Needless to say, this anti-life, anti-progress stance the Baby Mama Mafia takes/has taken p*sses me clean off. Intellectual dishonesty sickens me; I mean, where does the [alleged?] historical context of this DEAD END practice end and the clarion call for personal responsibility begin?

      In short: Haven’t BW/BG unnecessarily struggled, been humiliated and/or suffered enough…legally and otherwise?!

    • Lisa99 says:

      Anonymiss, you said…
      “My cousin’s wife advised me to become a single mother and not wait for marriage. I said “I don’t wanna be a single mom” and she said “Wives are already single moms. Children are for the women to enjoy.” Well who forced her to marry my playboy cousin and mother his kids?”

      This is another trap I am seeing far too often. Married black women telling single and childless black women that “it really doesn’t matter anyway” if they have their children OOW or not, because husbands are basically big children anyway, and no matter what, a woman is going to be solely responsible for the kids at the end of the day.

      I even know of some women who are taught and continue to believe that their children are essentially “her kids.” If the husband chooses to be involved, great, but ultimately, they don’t expect it… so the kids are not “theirs,” in her mind, but only “hers.”

      So… imagine being a single unmarried BW… maybe getting into your 30s and still childless without a man in sight and with no instruction about how to find a quality man because everyone around you limits you with a Biblical quote that says that he who findeth a wife findeth a good thing, so therefore, YOU should do nothing.

      But you really want a child. And married BW who did not vet their men properly tell you that they’re basically single mothers anyway and that’s what you’ll be essentially even if you are married, so go on ahead and have that baby. Or married BW who say that if they had known then what they did now, they never would have gotten married, and they want to “warn” other BW to not be so focused on marriage and understand that they don’t “need a man.”

      When… once again, they are missing the bigger picture. Marriage is not the problem. The men they chose to marry are the problem. Lack of vetting is the problem.

      If you marry well, you will NOT be a single-married mother. If you pay attention in the dating process to the man’s values and actions when it comes to family and children, you will get your answers. Does he just beg for you to have kids, or does he lay out a plan as to how he plans to provide for these children? Does he express views that show that he expects you to contribute your “half” or more IN ADDITION TO doing nearly everything involving the home and child-rearing?

      Are you even bothering to have these conversations before you get married??? Or were you just “in love” and now, instead of recognizing that you made a bad choice, you want to blame marriage and say that all men are irresponsible?

      Just pointing out more traps for BW to avoid!

    • ak says:

      Anonymiss:

      So what if you’re a successful product of a Black single mother? I bet your mother didn’t wanna be one and wouldn’t want you to end up as one either. I bet she cried a lot over the stress of dual parenting. And NWNW isn’t really geared towards higher-earning, single Black moms either. NWNW is reaching out to young Black women and girls who are surrounded by misery-wielding vultures.

      Exactly! I have lived through this with my own mother and I see her levels of stress up to this day and compare it to my godmother’s life who has been married for 40 years and been retired for over 20 years. My mother let me know from a long time ago that I shouldn’t be a single parent.

      These people just don’t think that a black woman is a real black woman without some miserable, forseeable, preventable mule-ish struggles and strife in her life, and that’s all there is to it.

    • ak says:

      Anonymiss:

      And NWNW isn’t really geared towards higher-earning, single Black moms either.

      Even the well-paid, high flying career BW who are single moms I think still go throught the stress because while a woman had more than enough money when she was on her own, she has to really budget, set aside, go without and financially really think things through when she has a mouth to feed and with no help from the child’s father. Plus there’s where she needs to allocate and spend her time, her schedule in other words is going to go all out of whack.

      Her high flying career is well paid but demanding and then so is her child also demanding of her time. NONE OF IT WA SWORTH THE STRESS I TELL YOU. My Mom is a professional, a nurse, and was a single parent and believe me even though she ‘soldiered’ on let’s say I could see and hear the stress and strife accumulating and taking it’s toll!

  7. Evia,

    You said, “It’s not just those programs that they expect to get support from, many OOW mothers AND the bc also directly AND INDIRECTLY drain other bw by expecting and guilting other bw (mother, sister, girlfriends, grandmom, aunts, cousins, sister-so-and so at the church, etc.) to help to support them by giving them energy, time, money, free-babysitting, etc. Many black churches also pressure bw there to help other bw with their OOW kids. This is common.”

    Well, the rest of us have to STOP doing things that prop up oow; including doing the things that the baby daddy should be doing for his own child. The harsh reality is that if we want the next generation of young AA women to have decent and good lives, then we need to make a CLEAR demarcation between choices that lead to mess versus choices that lead to a better life. That means cutting off support from everything and everybody that’s involved in mess. When we support baby mamas with their oow children, we are also normalizing oow. We’ve gotta stop doing that.

    The existing baby mamas and their oow children are already casualties of these women’s bad choices. We can either: (1) continue to support the creation of new casualties, or (2) write off the existing casualties and create a fresh start for the young AA women and girls coming behind us.

    You said, “Anyway, Khadija, this is why I started from DAY 1 campaigning for MARRIAGE. AA women are never going to even get close to living as well as other groups of women IF a large portion of them don’t get married to QUALITY men. DUH!! This is not new knowledge. It’s been known for thousands of years. So,I like to directly cut to the chaste in reminding bw about this OLD knowledge. LOL!”

    ITA. As I said during the previous conversation (in response to Roslyn’s observation about WW and social security death benefits),

    Overall, WW work LESS…live LONGER…and live BETTER…all because they choose a better caliber of men and they choose a better caliber of relationship (marriage and legitimate children instead of shacking and oow).

    BW: Get a clue!

    You said, “As I’ve said, as long as the bc and bw continue to contort their thinking and behavior to match the thinking and behaviors of DBRbm, AA women are going to wallow in the squalor that many of them are in this morning. This is guaranteed.

    AA women must simply BLOCK OUT the masses of AA men, and act as if they don’t exist. This is mainly because so many AA women cannot VET bm well. If they could vet them well, they could pick out the better, quality AA men, but the bulk of AA women simply don’t seem to be able to do this.

    I agree. A group of men—namely, AA males—who are willing and comfortable to see the majority of THEIR seed born out of wedlock are by definition NON-protective and NON-providing men. By their actions, they demonstrate that they are INFERIOR to men from other groups who protect and provide for their seed. It’s very simple. AA women need to leave the legions of fatherless, non-protective, non-providing AA males alone! And focus on finding a family-oriented, loving, protective, and providing man for marriage.

    Instead of wasting their time interacting with sick, conquered, AA/similarly situated Western Black men who are unfit and unwilling to be effective protectors and providers. And who, on top of that, are anti-Black racists who hate unmixed West African features and traits.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Another note about this: AA women are so programmed to “put on our marching shoes” and engage in various types of Sista Soldiering that we resist acknowleging that certain types of problems can’t be fixed with those sorts of methods. Our knee-jerk response is to have mass boycotts, rallies, meetings, and forums to try to talk to sick, conquered AA men/similarly situated Western BM who are anti-Black racists who hate unmixed Black women. None of this stuff works. AA women have wasted the past 4 decades or so on these sorts of methods.

    Meanwhile, look at what Asian women have accomplished for themselves during the same period of time—both as individuals and as a collective—by focusing on marrying quality, Alpha men from among the dominant group! Asian women didn’t and don’t spend much time talking/whining to Asian men about their sexism. Instead, Asian women quietly MOVED ON. And by silently MOVING ON, Asian women changed the entire marriage landscape for themselves. And changed it for their own benefit.

    AA women can do the same, if we would just silently turn away from sick AA men and focus our attention on marrying a quality husband from among this planet’s dominant, Alpha men. All this other stuff that we do—such as endless, waste of time dialoging with AA males—is a diversion from actually solving the problems facing AA women.

    Expect Success!

  8. Anonymiss says:

    Also, one of the NWNW dissenting voices was on Michael Eric Dyson’s radio show and complained about how NWNW is pushing “middle class values” on underprivileged Black women and girls. That is pure garbage.

    From a global perspective, class not bearing, it is simply wiser to raise children within a marriage. Third world countries where there’s no indoor plumbing and where there are inadequate school systems value marriage so class has nothing to do with common sense.

    All of my elders in my Nigerian family are married to the parents of their children. My uncle didn’t want to marry his wife and they’d already had three kids before he begrudgingly paid the dowry. Tradition frowns on men who don’t own up to their responsibilities.

    My nephew’s father is lucky he’s not in Nigeria. He’d have gotten beaten up everyday until he coughed up the money. As sexist as Nigerian men are, they won’t allow you to take advantage of their daughters, nieces, sisters, etc.

    • IRockIRoll says:

      Waaaaaaiiiiit a minute. People are COMPLAINING about middle class values??? For REAL??? (I need to STOP being surprised).

      The only thing I heard in that statement was that those women and girls weren’t good enough to be able to move up in life like MOST people in the world want to if they are poor. I saw this comment earlier, and lemme tell you, I took an involuntary breath! Imagine that PUSHING a better future on black women and girls is such a BAD THING to actually have the nerve and energy to pick up your phone, sit through that annoying Muzak, and then form your lips to whine about better options and normative for folks who look like YOU!

      Who gets on a regional (national, who knows, I don’t follow that fool) and publicly states, “I want LESS out of life, and those trifflin’ heffa’s over at NWNW are making folks who I thought were going to pad my nest of emptiness think twice. I.Will.Not.Stand.for.This. I need them right Hee-aaah with ME so that while I’m crying and ‘making it’ I won’t have to do it alone. I still want to compare my 3 kids w/ no father to Kimmy’s 4 kids with no father. Who’s goin’ rally round helping me pay my light bill if all these other women have other options and are simply LIVING their lives without crying about the black community! They ain’t leaving! They ain’t leaving! I will not be supporting this clarion call for some basic humanitarian values also known as being a provider and the duties of fatherhood.”

      When I hear ANYONE complain about middle class values, my first thought process is that someone grew up poor, and jealous of the middle class kids they were exposed to. That’s it. So automatically, my judgement of this woman is that she is jealous that other black women have a) not made the choice(s) she has; b) were afforded better opportunities by luck of the draw (and that’s just chance, as Khadija has mentioned, women in the Congo or born 100+ years ago would LOVE to be in our shoes, we’re here by chance); or c) has multiple OOW children herself. It could be a combo of all things.

      Look, when someone is suggesting that you accept a lower quality of life to make THEM feel more comfortable… you need to cut them off. Point blank. Maybe silently, definitely in a stealthily manner, but cut them off all the same. So if you know someone who agrees with this woman’s viewpoint, or espouses something like it… let them go. Unfortunately, like the butterfly parable, they may come back to you but that is simply practice to let.them.go.again!

      • IRock,IRoll,

        {gales of laughter at the following part of your comment}

        You said, “…Who gets on a regional (national, who knows, I don’t follow that fool) and publicly states, “I want LESS out of life, and those trifflin’ heffa’s over at NWNW are making folks who I thought were going to pad my nest of emptiness think twice. I.Will.Not.Stand.for.This. I need them right Hee-aaah with ME so that while I’m crying and ‘making it’ I won’t have to do it alone. I still want to compare my 3 kids w/ no father to Kimmy’s 4 kids with no father. Who’s goin’ rally round helping me pay my light bill if all these other women have other options and are simply LIVING their lives without crying about the black community! They ain’t leaving! They ain’t leaving! I will not be supporting this clarion call for some basic humanitarian values also known as being a provider and the duties of fatherhood.”

        {bwah ha haha ha}

        When I read your comment, I thought of that song from Dreamgirls. Only the words have been changed and Jennifer Hudson is belting out the following refrain:

        “And I’m tel-ling you, YOU’RE not going…”

        {more laughter}

        Expect Success!

    • T says:

      You mean the REV. Michael Eric Dyson is opposed to NWNW? Seriously? Get outta here.

  9. Lisa99,

    You said, “Here’s another trap — listening to unmarried mothers outside the United States who inject their opinions about marriage into a discussion about AA women.

    …Also, I don’t want to hear about Sweden or have Scandinavian women (including some of African descent) telling me about how marriage is no big deal or “not for them,” and how their life is much better without it. Again, that’s their choice, but it is completely irrelevant in an AMERICAN context.

    People can have their opinions, but it is a flat out LIE from the pit of Hades to say that there are no benefits to marriage, and it’s especially trifling for a non-American woman to be making this statement to Americans.”

    This gets back to the points raised during an earlier post titled The Art of Stealth, Part 1: Sometimes When People Hate You…They Join You. More AA women need to uwake up, and undertstand that some of these other folks join our conversations in order to sabotage our lives.
    _________________________________________

    Hello there, Anonymiss,

    You said, “So what if you’re a successful product of a Black single mother? I bet your mother didn’t wanna be one and wouldn’t want you to end up as one either. I bet she cried a lot over the stress of dual parenting. And NWNW isn’t really geared towards higher-earning, single Black moms either. NWNW is reaching out to young Black women and girls who are surrounded by misery-wielding vultures.”

    I hope that folks check out Deborrah Cooper’s video that I linked to in the post. Even though during this post I’m specifically focused on the tangible, material protections that marriage provides for women and their children, there ARE other protections. As she said, fatherless girls often grow up to do very well academically and in their professional lives. It’s in these daughters’ future intimate relationships where the deficits created by fatherlessness come into play.

    Marriage helps prevent a woman’s daughters from growing up with an unhealthy hunger for male attention. It also helps prevent daughters from setting their standards too low in evaluating the future men in their lives.

    As Ms. Cooper points out in her video, fatherlessness typically leads to an EXTREME, UNHEALTHY hunger for male attention among fatherless young women. These types of young women will do anything to get male attention. And once they get a male’s attention, they’ll do anything—no matter how degrading—to keep that male’s attention. Predatory males can spot this extreme daddy hunger in girls and women, and they exploit it. Pimp-type males specifically look for young girls and women who have “daddy hunger.”

    The other future intimate relationship deficit created by fatherlessness, is that fatherless women and girls set the bar much too low for the men in their lives. This is because there’s a blank spot where their Daddy was supposed to be. As a girl, your Daddy is the first man who loves you. And the first man who showers attention on you. And consciously or not, you measure future men by the benchmarks set by your Dad’s living example. That’s how all of this works among normal human families.

    When there’s NO Daddy, you have nothing to use to measure men AND those men’s treatment of you. And so, any type of man and any type of treatment becomes acceptable.

    You said, “From a global perspective, class not bearing, it is simply wiser to raise children within a marriage. Third world countries where there’s no indoor plumbing and where there are inadequate school systems value marriage so class has nothing to do with common sense.

    All of my elders in my Nigerian family are married to the parents of their children. My uncle didn’t want to marry his wife and they’d already had three kids before he begrudgingly paid the dowry. Tradition frowns on men who don’t own up to their responsibilities.

    My nephew’s father is lucky he’s not in Nigeria. He’d have gotten beaten up everyday until he coughed up the money. As sexist as Nigerian men are, they won’t allow you to take advantage of their daughters, nieces, sisters, etc.”

    Indeed. NORMAL HUMAN MEN impose severe consequences on other males who don’t want to live up to their male duties of protecting and providing for their offspring. “Old-school” AA men used to do that. That’s why there were “shotgun weddings.” As in, the man who impregnated a young woman either married her before she gave birth, or he faced being KILLED (executed) by her male relatives.

    Expect Success!

    • ak says:

      Khadija:

      When there’s NO Daddy, you have nothing to use to measure men AND those men’s treatment of you. And so, any type of man and any type of treatment becomes acceptable.

      Yes Khadija and I’m just glad and darn lucky that this didn’t ruin my life entirely!

  10. I’m mostly amused by those who refer to NWNW as a “golddigger” movement. I’m absolutely stunned at the notion that a woman who seeks to provide as many resources for her child as possible would be referred to in a disparaging manner. Heck, even a mama chimp seeks out the best provider and does everything in her power to ensure that her child is born under the best circumstances possible. Don’t we at least have as much sense as a chimpanzee?

    You’re doggoned right I’m a golddigger and darned proud of it. Poverty is no joke. People treat you like crap in this country when you’re poor, and a “program” is no substitute for a child’s God-given right to his parent’s resources. I wonder if these naysayers have ever written a check for summer camp? Music lessons? Sports teams? Enrichment programs? Well I have and it’s no joke. And it only gets more expensive from there. But my children need these things to be competitive. Where the heck do they think the “achievement gap” comes from? Children coming from “programs” cannot compete against children who’ve been home-schooled, gone to summer camps, museums and enrichment classes. It simply cannot be done.

    So yes, I claw and scrape to make sure that my child and the one I’m carrying will have everything they need and quite a few things they want. Fortunately my husband has enough sense to recognize that my “golddigging” ways are of benefit to him as well. For one thing they ensure that his seed will always have every opportunity to succeed and carry his name on. Further, he knows that my proclivity for squirreling resources away protects all of us from any future calamity. I’m not out here scrounging to pay for mani-pedis, This is for OUR CHILDREN. And frankly I have no respect whatever for any woman with children who isn’t doing the same.

    As for folk talking about the situation in other countries I just shake my head. Somebody on another blog said that white feminists would join with us in an effort to bring Scandinavian style socialism to this country. Yeah right! Why on earth would they do that? When have white feminists united with black women for ANYTHING? Further, why would they want to change the tax structure when it benefits them and theirs so wonderfully? I’m absolutely amazed that people think it makes more sense to try to change the economic system of this country, than to encourage people to change their OWN behavior. And frankly, as more black and brown people emigrate to those countries with all the lovely benefits, I guarantee those benefits will be going to way of the dodo. You’ll note that the most “liberal” areas in the world are also the most homogeneous. Once everyone stops looking alike all the various “isms” come into play. White folk are more than willing to pay outrageous taxes for a system that’s exclusive to them. That’s how FDR got Social Security passed, by excluding black folk. Nowhere in the world are people going to be willing support black people who’ve decided they want to play stupid.

    • Roslyn,

      You said, “So yes, I claw and scrape to make sure that my child and the one I’m carrying will have everything they need and quite a few things they want.”

      Congratulations!!!! 🙂 {happy dancing}

      Expect Success!

    • Karen says:

      “…And frankly, as more black and brown people emigrate to those countries with all the lovely benefits, I guarantee those benefits will be going to way of the dodo. You’ll note that the most “liberal” areas in the world are also the most homogeneous. Once everyone stops looking alike all the various “isms” come into play. “

      As someone who travels quite a bit and with friends/acquaintances in Europe, I can already confirm that the tide is changing. For instance, in the Netherlands, the people have recently voted in “Pro-Dutch” faction into the governement meaning the Liberals went to far and the average Dutch person has made their feelings known with their votes. It is only a matter of time.

      Bottom line: Marriage is an institution that has stood the test of time. AA Women and girls need to step away from normalizing OOW. The last 40 years shows that it does not work. The effects of this have decimated the BC. The last generation of married AAs (i.e. grandparents and great-grandparents) are almost gone. The current oow generation is lost.

      My hope is that the young women and girls who are getting this message can build a better future for themselves with quality men from the global village.

      • Lisa99 says:

        Karen, any word on the UK?

        I know that Britain had great benefits for single mothers, but many Brits are tired of seeing generation after generation of silly young people taking sex and procreation lightly. I have read articles in which young British women say they know if they become “mums,” they get their own “flat” (apartment) provided by the government and can move from home.

        Ooh, yippee. Not.

        And these are mostly white folks we’re talking about here, although BM over there are doing their share of contributing to the problem. I’m sure the UK is thinking of cutting back on some of its very generous “programs,” because they’ve absolved fathers of their duty to provide for their children AND encouraged OOW childbearing.

        • Karen says:

          I cannot speak directly to the U.K. I do know that many governments in Europe are taking a hard look at who is benefiting and whether those groups are a benefit to their society or not. Many reductions are being discussed.

          What I hear most of all is that the social programs were intended to help the weakeast but not become a way of life for able-bodied people.

          I believe there will be many changes on the horizon.

        • ak says:

          I live in London and yes the UK government should have LONG cut off any benefits of giving housing and other benefits to women and teens who just keeep popping out the OOW kids. It’s too disgusting and this is why, as Khadija has mentioned earlier from a certain book she read, there is now a white underclass in the UK, where as just 20-odd years ago there was just a normal working class of white, Asian, and immigrant blacks.

          But to me of course there’s an underclass of black/mixed race people also because, true to form, a lot of black Brits especially those of Caribbean descent but also some of African descent copy the negative behavior based on AA ghetto-ABC culture instead of the positive AA ‘original’ middle class values behavior, like the OOW kids everywhere for example.

          The UK used to have morality in it and lots of civilty and standard ACROSS the different classes regardless of background and geographical location but now they just let factors such as OOW childbirth erode everything that the country used to have in it.

      • Faith says:

        Things have definately changed as I was looking to go to school in either Sweden or Norway and Sweden is charging full tuition (it used to be free) and they both have standard of living minimums (meaning you have to enter the country with X amount of cash) not to mention the langauge requirement if you even hope to get a PT job while there. Which annoys me to no end how those who come to the US illegally have commandeered states like California (which is beyond bankrupt) into offering free tuition, driver’s licenses and bilingual education with no parameters or concessions in place. People like me are being pushed out by the lack of jobs and extreme high property values while others who have nothing can infiltrate and make it. I won’t even get into the legal H-1 Visa situation whereby East & South Asians can then move here, start companies and create hiring monoolies of their own further pushing out the home-grown population.

    • Faith says:

      Oh Roslyn I saw this on Facebook last week and have been meaning to offer my congrats as well. May your family continue to be blessed.

    • ZooPath says:

      Congratulations! Thanks for injecting some positive news into a depressing (in the fact that this is actually up for discussion) conversation.

    • IRockIRoll says:

      “You’ll note that the most “liberal” areas in the world are also the most homogeneous.”

      And THAT is why I never believed in that “higher order thinking skills” of the European variety. They are NOT some better people, their countries have ALWAYS been more homogenous than the New World. We started OFF with Native Americans, Spaniards, French, English, and then we introduced Africans, and Asians. That’s why race is so contentious in all of these areas. Look at France, a “volatile” nation in terms of race relations, and yet no one wants to mention that in the past 50 years, they’re now 10% Muslim in a mostly secular nation. I think they’re handling it well for such a demographic change so swiftly.

      These small countries and homogenous nations have their social benefits tied to a “Knowing Your Neighbor” values system. Their neighbors, are largely like them. So, they are more willing to help out a jam since those people resemble them physically, and have the same general social mores. When you’re in a small town setting, and most of the people who you meet are like you, you’re much more likely to be more trusting. I suspect THAT is why those benefits packages were so generous in the first place.

      These new immigrants DON’T look like them, DON’T have the same social constructs, and from what I’m hearing are NOT all that grateful. Soooo, now that folks from Scandanavia are worrying about their job prospects, AND their neighbors don’t look like them and are sending portions of paychecks to countries that ALSO don’t resemble them, I expect them to cut.things.off. This is common sense. The members of their society will MOSTLY receive them, due to family/community/friendship structures, and those who are not originally from the nation will be… dropped. I know a Spanish woman who was singing the praises of their immigration system and health care esp. to poorer Africans who had made it over… yeah, I haven’t heard ANY of that since the downturn. Now, it is mostly how people are thinking of moving to England or Germany to find employment.

      • ak says:

        IRockIRoll:

        And THAT is why I never believed in that “higher order thinking skills” of the European variety. They are NOT some better people, their countries have ALWAYS been more homogenous than the New World. We started OFF with Native Americans, Spaniards, French, English, and then we introduced Africans, and Asians. That’s why race is so contentious in all of these areas. Look at France, a “volatile” nation in terms of race relations, and yet no one wants to mention that in the past 50 years, they’re now 10% Muslim in a mostly secular nation. I think they’re handling it well for such a demographic change so swiftly.

        You are absolutely right about all of this.

    • Roslyn!!! You’re pregnant! OMG all those times we talked on the phone and you didn’t say a THING! Congrats, my friend!

  11. Yes, yes, and yes! My mother and father were married before my brother and I were conceived but later they divorced. But, our paternity was never questioned and a lot of the embarassment was avoided. My mother vetted as well as she could-my father had a stable job with the Post Office and he actually just retired from there a few years ago. So, while their relationship may have ended, she always made sure to look for a good provider and our father supported us. This made a world of difference to us-we grew up in a better position than our friends who were born OOW. That money was one reason why my mother could work as an underpaid instructional assistant for the school system. She wanted to be out of school whenever we were, and it allowed us to do a lot of things together as a family without her taking a financial hit.

    Another reason that my mother could continue to work for the school system was because of my stepfather’s earnings. My stepfather was a contractor who fully intended for my new wife to be a stay-at-home mother-my mom passed on that one LOL! She enjoyed working with preschoolers and wasn’t giving it up. He was a good provider as well and, even though he is now ill, when he had his health and strength, he took very good care of us as well.

    Point is, we weren’t “middle class” (compared to the middle class folks that I know) but marriage benefitted us, both my mother’s marriage to our father and the marriage to our stepfather. We always had what we needed and some of what we wanted. If my mother hadn’t married, I am positive that we would have struggled and missed out on a lot of opportunities.

    Oh yeah, just want to mention that the anti-NWNW folks are ignorant as hell. My own grandmother shares these feelings-though she was a married woman. She got married at 19 after having 3 children with my grandfather. They divorced 25 or so years later, but she actually told her daughters to have their children but not to get married! She didn’t encourage her sons to do the same-just her daughters, so that they could all live together and be miserable. She projected her painful experiences onto her children. She didn’t vet well and ended up with a dud (then again, I wasn’t there-methinks that both of them were duds.) But she benefits from her dissolved marriage-she rarely worked outside of the home (even when she really should have gotten a job to help out) and she receives my grandfather’s Social Security benefits. I don’t understand why she would encourage her daughters to leave themselves and their children so vulnerable to economic challenges. But then again, that’s what all the NWNW detractors are doing.

  12. Felicia says:

    More sobering information these lying, stupid, IMO wicked, and abnormal anti NWNW morons of both genders don’t factor in…

    Single mothers three times more likely to have children who die young

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-477339/Single-mothers-times-likely-children-die-young.html

    “Single mothers are more than three times more likely to give birth to children who die young than the off spring of married professionals.
    New figures show that babies born to married couples are far less likely to die before their first birthday than those whose father is estranged or unknown.
    The children of single mothers were also more likely to have dangerously low birth weights and to be born prematurely.
    Experts said the differences were down to the fact that single parents were usually poorer than married ones. They and their children lived less healthy lifestyles and were less likely to seek help from their doctor.”

    BLACK INFANT MORTALITY

    http://community.michiana.org/famconn/blinmort.html

    “An American baby born today has a greater chance of living until her first birthday than she would have had in 1950. In spite of this encouraging news, the death rate for infants in the United States is higher than that of any other Western industrialized country. “Further, the gap between the survival rates of black and white babies has increased.” African American babies in the U.S. today are two-and-a-half times more likely to die before their first birthday than white babies.”

    BLACK INFANT MORTALITY: THE FACTS

    Out-of-wedlock births:

    Of Indiana Medicaid clients who had similar prenatal care in 1992, the babies of single women were 14 times as likely to die as the babies of married women.(6) In St. Joseph County 79% of black women who delivered a live birth in 1992 were on Medicaid, compared to 31% of white women.(3)

    Of all white women giving birth in Indiana in 1993, 25% were unmarried, while 70% of black births were to unmarried women.(7)

    Study: Crime rates linked to out-of-wedlock births

    According to the study, in the years from 1965 to 2002, higher rates of out-of-wedlock births in a given year correlate with higher crime rates roughly 20 years later, when members of that birth cohort had become adults. The findings suggest that children born out of wedlock may receive lower educational and other resource investments from their parents, and may therefore be more likely to commit crimes as adults, say the study’s authors, economists Todd D. Kendall, of the consulting firm Compass Lexecon, and Robert Tamura of Clemson University.
    “While a number of previous studies have found that unmarried fertility is associated with unfavorable childhood outcomes, our analysis is one of the first to measure the long-run effect on crime when these children reach adulthood,” Kendall and Tamura write.

  13. Magenta says:

    Looks like the Steve McNair murder and its aftermath will be yet another OOW horror story. In addition to being a cheater, he was also so incredibly irresponsible that he did not have a will, despite being worth millions and having a wife and FOUR children.

    His widow is now having to appeal the court to get his assets unfrozen, but at least she will be taken care of because she was his wife.

    But here is the kicker: out of the four children, only two were with his wife. The other two were OOW from a “previous relationship.” Since this fool did not leave a will, there is a very good chance that those other two kids will not get anything.

    Mrs. McNair may very well be a nice woman who will “do right” by all the kids, but do you really want the fate of your children in another person’s hands like this? Do you really want to have to be put in the situation of begging your deceased baby daddy’s new wife for money to help with YOUR kids?

    BW need to get a clue.

  14. sisterlocgirl says:

    As usual a very intelligent, informative article. As I have mentioned in my previous posts, if all of this nobility in single parenthood/motherhood was the rage, why aren’t the upper classes/successful people doing the same? Because history has shown that the 2 parent family with 2 involved parents increases your chances of success. The utter LACK OF CRITICAL THINKING in the bc is ASTOUNDING. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that the bc as a whole is losing ground at breakneck speed because of sheer STUPIDITY. Hopefully enough young AA girls and women are starting to see reality by the heartfelt efforts of you, Khadijah and all the other BWE bloggers out here. Follow IDIOTS over the cliff at your own peril. I totally agree. . .we need to take a page from the Asian girl handbook & start quietly making our own moves to align ourselves with the Alpha males. I’m married to one, and there’s nothing like having someone totally love and appreciate you for who you are and not feel threatened by it. We need a return of common sense ( I know, not so common ). Anyone who is trying to sell you a bill of goods that the overall society doesn’t value is usually a clue that its a crock of sh*t. What has ” trying to be white ” gotten me? A medical degree, a thriving practice as a subspecialty physician, a 6 figure income, and the luxury of living my life as I see fit, not subsisting from paycheck to paycheck, or welfare check to welfare check. My family and high school herd believed in education and self suffieicncy first, marriage and children in that order. To a girl we have all gone on to do exactly that. Don’t follow the lies and bullsh*t people who have made poor choices try to fork over on you. Deborrah Cooper siad it best in her Crabs in the barrel video. Watch it carefully and take notes. It may save your life.

  15. Felicia says:

    Link to the study regarding OOW births and high crime rates…

    http://www.physorg.com/news197644722.html

  16. Oshun/Aphrodite says:

    RE Evia: You said, “It’s not just those programs that they expect to get support from, many OOW mothers AND the bc also directly AND INDIRECTLY drain other bw by expecting and guilting other bw (mother, sister, girlfriends, grandmom, aunts, cousins, sister-so-and so at the church, etc.) to help to support them by giving them energy, time, money, free-babysitting, etc. Many black churches also pressure bw there to help other bw with their OOW kids. This is common.”

    RE Khadija: Well, the rest of us have to STOP doing things that prop up oow; including doing the things that the baby daddy should be doing for his own child. The harsh reality is that if we want the next generation of young AA women to have decent and good lives, then we need to make a CLEAR demarcation between choices that lead to mess versus choices that lead to a better life. That means cutting off support from everything and everybody that’s involved in mess. When we support baby mamas with their oow children, we are also normalizing oow. We’ve gotta stop doing that.

    Cosign. I have seen this happen so much and been on the receiving end of this kind of pressure. This is a part of the reason why I chose not to give to said funeral.

  17. Oshun/Aphrodite says:

    @Anonymiss and Miss Glamtastic

    I took offense to that statement – I heard the interview as well. Neither of my parents were educated or professionals (well my mom changed that a bit, but that was much later on) and yet my mother was a stay and home mother and still well taken care of. We had enough for needs and some wants.

    I would say that this is critical especially for working class women.

  18. Roslyn,

    You said, “a “program” is no substitute for a child’s God-given right to his parent’s resources. I wonder if these naysayers have ever written a check for summer camp? Music lessons? Sports teams? Enrichment programs? Well I have and it’s no joke. And it only gets more expensive from there. But my children need these things to be competitive. Where the heck do they think the “achievement gap” comes from? Children coming from “programs” cannot compete against children who’ve been home-schooled, gone to summer camps, museums and enrichment classes. It simply cannot be done.”

    Indeed. This web of failure and pathology created by mass oow is the reason AAs have become a permanent underclass in this country. The family, as in husband + wife + children, is the basic unit of any society. Without stable families, nothing works right. The AA collective’s mass freefall into underclass status demonstrates this.
    ___________________________________________

    MissGlamtastic(Tia),

    You said, ” If my mother hadn’t married, I am positive that we would have struggled and missed out on a lot of opportunities.”

    That’s right. And the repercussions of marriage/oow last for GENERATIONS. Good or bad. One of my coworkers, who is an AA man who is an attorney, husband, and family man is the product of a shotgun wedding. He has often remarked that if his father hadn’t been FORCED to marry his mother, he knows that he wouldn’t have the good life that he currently enjoys. His father would NOT have made the same investment in him as an oow child that he made in him as his legitimate son. Among other things, there would have been NO:

    (1) Extremely prestigious and expensive private school education as a child—which led to attending a good university—which led to attending law school. This was a seamless, greased path because of the initial foundation of the world-class, expensive private school his father paid for.

    (2) No foundation of knowing how to “do” investment properties established by first managing his father’s rental properties. His father would not have groomed OR trusted him to manage his properties if he was oow child growing up with an angry, resentful baby mama. Remember, my coworker and I were born during the 1960s—oow was still considered a VERY BAD look at that point among most decent AAs.

    All of the above benefits set the stage for the benefits that my coworker is delighted to provide for his wife and children:

    (a) World-class (and extremely expensive) private school educations for his daughters.

    (b) All of the enrichment sorts of activites that Roslyn described in her comment above.

    (c) International travel. My coworker’s daughters have seen other parts of the world. That’s a priceless experience, especially when you’re first exposed to the world as a child. It expands one’s sense of what’s possible in ways that are immeasurable.

    The benefits my coworker’s daughters are enjoying in the 21st century are ALL the fruit of that one shotgun wedding that took place in the 1960s. Marriage makes a difference. For generations.
    ________________________________

    Felicia,

    I say let’s call a moratorium on citing studies and statistics to lunatic crabs in a barrel. The many negative repercussions of oow and shacking are visible and well-known to EVERYBODY with a working brain stem. There’s no need to offer proof of things that are self-evident.
    _____________________________

    Magenta,

    My goodness the Steve McNair mess is a rotten gift that keeps on giving…You said, “Mrs. McNair may very well be a nice woman who will “do right” by all the kids, but do you really want the fate of your children in another person’s hands like this? Do you really want to have to be put in the situation of begging your deceased baby daddy’s new wife for money to help with YOUR kids?”

    She might. But, from my point of view, Mrs. McNair has no rational reason to do this. Why should she take resources away from her children to give to children that are NOT hers? Why should Mrs. McNair provide for strange, no-kin-to-her children better than her dead husband chose to? As I see it, Mrs. McNair has no obligation to take from her own kids’ slice of the money to give to these other women’s kids.

    You said, “BW need to get a clue.”

    YES, and quickly!
    ________________________________________

    Sisterlocgirl,

    Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it.

    You said, “Don’t follow the lies and bullsh*t people who have made poor choices try to fork over on you. Deborrah Cooper siad it best in her Crabs in the barrel video. Watch it carefully and take notes. It may save your life.”

    Indeed!

    Expect Success!

    • ak says:

      Khadija:

      I say let’s call a moratorium on citing studies and statistics to lunatic crabs in a barrel. The many negative repercussions of oow and shacking are visible and well-known to EVERYBODY with a working brain stem. There’s no need to offer proof of things that are self-evident.

      Exactly. Statistics? Statistics, schmatistics. What am I blind or deaf or something? I have my OWN life experience to see that OOW is wrong and out of touch with normal life. I don’t even need to hear other people’s examples or experiences, or see them on a TV talk show or whatever. Please.

  19. Felicia says:

    I hear you Khadija!

    The benefits of marriage to women and children is obvious. A blind man can see it. It doesn’t take rocket science to understand common sense.

    GREAT essay.

  20. tyco says:

    You know, I often think about Faith Evans whenever I think of the protections of marriage. If I remember correctly, Biggie Smalls didn’t have a will either. As Biggie’s wife, Faith inherited everything despite being separated from B.I.G and actually dating her current husband. She did share the estate, but it was her CHOICE to do so.

    On a personal level, I was raised by a single mother, and my older sister had my niece oow. My sister died when my niece was a toddler. My niece has no father’s name on her birth certificate, which has left her at a disadvantage on so many levels. I can’t lie, I loved my sister, but for years I had a lot of anger towards her. She created a mess and others (i.e., her child-free by choice sister aka me!) were left picking up the pieces. I chose to help my mother co-parent my niece because I didn’t want her following in the footsteps of my mother, or my sister. I am sure NWNW opponents would consider us a “village” but that’s bull! This is dysfunction! I wouldn’t wish my niece’s situation on my worst enemy.

    I’ve raised my niece to understand that marriage will not only benefit her children, but it will benefit her as well. I want her to view every man she dates as a potential husband, and father. If he wants one without the other, let him go. I want more for her, and her kids, so the first person who tells her it’s alright for her have a baby oow, will get their feeling hurt!

  21. Karen R. says:

    The link to Ms. Cooper’s video was very interesting, thank you for providing it.

    The tables have turned and it seems that BM now vet BW to see how little they can be expected to give and how much they can expect to receive, with BW who are desperate to have ‘any kinda’ man doing anything and everything for their ‘man’ to show how ride or die they are for him. These women give, give, give and hardly ever ask for anything in return and when they do ask for anything they are labeled gold-diggers. In some circles a woman would rather die than to be labeled a gold-digger, but what these women don’t realize is that what they are asking for is NORMAL.

    The conversation from the other post was quite interesting. I knew a little bit about providing proof to collect child-support, but what I had never considered however was the death benefit issue. I didn’t know that a woman who never married her child’s father would not be entitled to any sort of Social Security, pension, insurance. That is very sobering.

    Another financial benefit to having children comes into play when a woman can’t or chooses not to work during or after pregnancy. I remember when my husband and I had our first child. I was healthy, had normal weight, etc. but I experienced high blood pressure brought on by the pregnancy. I expected to work up to my due date and be a stay-at-home mom following delivery. What happened though is that I had to stop working approximately 7-8 weeks early and because I had a C-section I couldn’t have gone right back to work even if I wanted to. What do the anti-NWNW people say about that? What happens if a woman has to stop working early because of health issues? Or can’t immediately go back?How is she supported then? Do the baby-daddy’s pay the mortgage, the car note, etc? What about the involvement of the father’s extended family? I see that when there was a marriage involved even if it ended in divorce, grandparents, aunts and uncles are involved in the child’s life on a whole ‘nother level than if the child was born OOW.

    The crazy thing for me though is the contingent of women that considers childbirth almost a right of passage and a symbol of validation. I teach adult ed. part time in the city and most of my students have multiple OOW children. These women that I deal with are having children with men who aren’t even collectible!! Their children are with men who don’t have or who have never had a job and can’t even buy them a can of Coke, let alone diapers or formula. Every day I see the effects of AW having children out of wedlock. These AW and their children are permanently caught up in the quicksand of unemployment and overall economic hopelessness.

    • IRockIRoll says:

      You know, when I stated to people that the eviction rate for black women and children was *just* starting up in urban neighborhoods with close access to public transportation and amenities, I got laughed out of town. The thing that most folks DON’T want to address is that when you are an OOW mother, then you are largely depending on YOUR family. Well, if YOUR family is mostly OOW and fragmented… who are you turning to? No, who?

      Really and truly, I saw my own folks and fam jump off of various cliffs as my grandparents died… AND MOST OF THOSE FOOLS CAME FROM MARRIED STABLE BACKGROUNDS!!!! THAT is what scares me the most, and has helped to be a strong motivator in me bouncing in the first place. They had a stronger foundation than me… and THAT is the end result? I cannot participate. And although it has been difficult at times (I refuse to deny that), I also refuse to “claim” that the difficulty made me a better person. Struggles don’t always make you stronger. Sometimes, they just wear you down. Which is why MOST folks don’t sign up for struggles. We need to walk away! Black women, we’ve struggled enough. I am going to be upfront honest… ALL of the family hatred and anger has NOT equaled the level of happiness and freedom that I got… when I bounced.

      And thank you Khadija, Evia, CW, Sara, etc… so much for your messages. I really did think that outside of a few friends/family acquaintances/ and advisors that I was taking crazy pills. B/c in everyday life I had (black) people mostly deriding me for having a different view point.

      • You’re welcome! 🙂

        {going back into radio silence; I’ve mostly said all I have to say about this post’s topic}

        Expect Success!

      • ak says:

        IRockIRoll:

        And although it has been difficult at times (I refuse to deny that), I also refuse to “claim” that the difficulty made me a better person. Struggles don’t always make you stronger. Sometimes, they just wear you down. Which is why MOST folks don’t sign up for struggles. We need to walk away! Black women, we’ve struggled enough.

        Thank you IrockIRoll what you’ve said here above has definitely been my life up to now. I don’t feel stronger, I feel used up and thrown away. Thank goodness for my therapy that will be starting up and the Accounting dgree I’m studying for right now. I live for these now so that I can have peace of mind and a better life.

  22. KM says:

    Even though I grew up in a situation that is abnormal for a two-parent household, I can never discount the benefits of being a child in a married household. My mother worked as a teacher (my father was disabled when I was a young child and couldn’t work except during tax season: he had been a CPA before the injury) and my father stayed at home and took care of the house. If my parents had never married, what incentive would there had been for my father to have watch my brother and I when we were teens, to keep an eye and make sure that we didn’t get absorbed into the streets.

    I grew up poor and in the hood but I never knew of hunger. Lights were always on, we always had heat and water. Whatever my brother and I needed, we always got. There was money for little luxuries here and there: brand name clothing/shoes, vacations throughout the US. Whatever enrichment programs I went to, there was always money to pay for it, especially after tax time was finished (my father always made enough during tax season that after he set aside money for taxes, that could last a full year if planned out right.) I never had to get a part time job to pay for needed stuff in high school (college visits, SAT test prep, SAT test fees, etc.), we always had the money.

    Sure, we weren’t middle class, we were lower middle class but the life I had growing up was infinitely better than many of the other children I grew up with in the hood. And my parents set my brother and I up to do better than they did: both of us went to college, I graduated, he dropped out and went to mechanic school. He now owns his own garage and I work. If my mom had been a single mom, I doubt if we’d be where we are.

    Now, even though I had been poor, I had much more than children born OOW. Why would I want to even SUBJECT my children to being 20 steps back in life by having them OOW?

    I don’t want my children to more than likely fall through the cracks and die in the rubbish of what’s left of the BC, subject to DBRs all around. My parents want me to do better and I want to do better, so I’m going to be like my mom, my aunts, my grandmothers, my cousins and wait to be married.

  23. Faith says:

    All of the points mentioned make perfect sense. Something else I’d wondered about was the pending lawsuit of the family of the criminal Oscar Grant. One I’ve wondered if after the criminal trial finds the ex-BART cop innocent (as it appears will be maneuvered will the City of Oakland even pay out a dime for a wrongful death suit – esp in light of the city operating in the red? If so will his former victims of the crimes he committed also be entitled to a share of his estate? The real crux I’m introducing is I found it interesting that the mother and (non-black) baby momma were working together with the lawyer regarding the settlement (with the deadbeat Sr. jumping in for a cut) because as far as I know only one person has guaranteed (albiet temporary) legal claims: (the mother) because he wasn’t married. Now I do realize that the daughter he left behind would be entitled to benefits AFTER it’s proven she’s his actual heir which then leads me to wondering if the baby momma would still be willing to give her non-mother-in-law any proceeds. Basically, I’m asking out loud when a check is actually cut who will still be friends? Not that it really matters…I just found it ironic that Grant would likely end up providing for his spawn in death much better than he would’ve in life. I was also recalling another story I’d blogged more a year ago about some murdered NFL player who also had not left a will and the money went to his children he had with the baby momma (who also wasn’t black – and she and her family made sure she got the assets) but his own mother was losing her home to foreclosure because he had been paying for it. That baby momma didn’t feel under any obligation to help the GRANDMOTHER of her kids at all. This is why marriage really pays especially when there are children involved.

  24. Tyco,

    You said, “…my older sister had my niece oow. My sister died when my niece was a toddler. My niece has no father’s name on her birth certificate, which has left her at a disadvantage on so many levels.”

    OMG. The blank space on the birth certificate where the father’s name should be is one angle to oow that I had never really paid attention to. That’s a humiliating mess…{sigh}
    _______________________________________________

    KarenR.,

    You’re welcome. If some folks think I’m harsh, they should listen some more to Ms. Cooper. She says things the “funk-uncut” way that my older female relatives used. {chuckling}

    You said, “The tables have turned and it seems that BM now vet BW to see how little they can be expected to give and how much they can expect to receive, with BW who are desperate to have ‘any kinda’ man doing anything and everything for their ‘man’ to show how ride or die they are for him. These women give, give, give and hardly ever ask for anything in return and when they do ask for anything they are labeled gold-diggers. In some circles a woman would rather die than to be labeled a gold-digger, but what these women don’t realize is that what they are asking for is NORMAL.”

    It’s yet another destructive example of how far AAs have strayed from HUMAN norms.

    You said, “Another financial benefit to having children comes into play when a woman can’t or chooses not to work during or after pregnancy. I remember when my husband and I had our first child. I was healthy, had normal weight, etc. but I experienced high blood pressure brought on by the pregnancy. I expected to work up to my due date and be a stay-at-home mom following delivery. What happened though is that I had to stop working approximately 7-8 weeks early and because I had a C-section I couldn’t have gone right back to work even if I wanted to. What do the anti-NWNW people say about that? What happens if a woman has to stop working early because of health issues? Or can’t immediately go back?How is she supported then? Do the baby-daddy’s pay the mortgage, the car note, etc? What about the involvement of the father’s extended family? I see that when there was a marriage involved even if it ended in divorce, grandparents, aunts and uncles are involved in the child’s life on a whole ‘nother level than if the child was born OOW.”

    I’m happy you mentioned these details. Modern women don’t understand that pregnancy is a life-threatening condition for women! This is why women died in childbirth in earlier generations.

    If it wasn’t for modern medicine, there would be a LOT of Died During Pregnancy/Died While Giving Birth women right now! Dead women who died from various pregnancy-induced ailments like gestational diabetes, high blood pressure, and so on. There’s nothing cute about facing all of that ALONE.

    AA women better recognize!
    _______________________________________________

    KM,

    You said, “My mother worked as a teacher (my father was disabled when I was a young child and couldn’t work except during tax season: he had been a CPA before the injury) and my father stayed at home and took care of the house. If my parents had never married, what incentive would there had been for my father to have watch my brother and I when we were teens, to keep an eye and make sure that we didn’t get absorbed into the streets.

    I grew up poor and in the hood but I never knew of hunger. Lights were always on, we always had heat and water. Whatever my brother and I needed, we always got. There was money for little luxuries here and there: brand name clothing/shoes, vacations throughout the US. Whatever enrichment programs I went to, there was always money to pay for it, especially after tax time was finished (my father always made enough during tax season that after he set aside money for taxes, that could last a full year if planned out right.) I never had to get a part time job to pay for needed stuff in high school (college visits, SAT test prep, SAT test fees, etc.), we always had the money.”

    Unmarried baby daddies have no incentive to do all of that on-site, 24/7/365 fathering. We’ve all seen that generally only married fathers do that sort of hands on, on-site, 24/7/365 fathering.
    __________________________________________

    Faith,

    After it’s all said and done, you can let me know the ultimate outcome of the Oscar Grant mess…I’m just not curious enough to keep up with that saga myself. {shrugs shoulders}

    Expect Success!

  25. Truth P. says:

    Khadija this may be a little off topic.If so, you know you can trash it at will and my apologies in advance.

    As I have said, I do attend VOC meetings and hearing some of the stories of the women defitnetly makes my blood boil.
    Recently we were having a conversation about black women and the trust issues they have with eachother and why so many black women don’t get along with eachother.It seemed to me that most of the women in the room,all of them except me,enthusiastically spoke up against other bw to gladly say that they get along with their black male counterparts much better than other black women.
    Khadija, this was a room full of single women and single mothers.
    I was so angry and upset by this for numerous reasons and I just had to speak up and tell it and I DID.
    I interrupted the convo to let them know how STUPID they sound.
    I told them that almost EVERY ONE of the women in that room were depending on other BLACK WOMEN for support either for their OOW children or for themselves in some way.All of the single mothers’ baby daddies were AWOL.
    I explained to them that the reason why they likely were’nt getting along with other black women is because unlike their black baby daddies,boyfriends,and booty calls they actually deal and have interactions with other black women on a very personal,stressful,financial level daily.I told them how could they say that about other black women when they are being helped financially supported,rent clothing food toiletries kids school clothes etc., by other black women.Not to mention other black women are constantly baby sitting their children.I also mentioned how many black men conveniently show up for sex,the family barbeque, a fun night on the town, (basically for BULLSH**) and therefore they never deal with black men in real relationships as they do with other black women which can be stressful.

    My parents were married and their relationship was’nt all sex,relaxing,eating white castles & clubbin on a saturday nights and joking.They dealt with the stress of raising kids,paying bills and everything else.My father came home everyday.My mother saw him EVERYDAY.OF course,they were going to have more stressful moments than someone who only came around once every few months for “big fun”.

    Khadija, that day at the meeting it became very clear to me that black women do alot of things to sabotage eachother.They Even further stereotypes about one another…. and they do so gladly.These women were all too happy to go on and on about how other black women are soooo catty and mean and how they argue with other black women but never stopped to think that it’s probably because they see and deal with other black women more than they do with black men.And they bring alot of stress to the lives of other black women with their children.When I said that, they all began to nod their head in agreement.
    One woman who claims she has real black male friends and that she gets along best with them,who also was one of the women who was oh so happy to say she doesn’t get along with other women as well as men,is talking about starting up her own apartment complex filled with single black women and their children.She says it will be an environment where single mothers will help and depend on one another.She also stays up in the face of many other black women ,not black men, to help her with many of her other goals and ambitions.But remember she had already stated how she gets along so well with black men and how much easier they are to deal with.Yet these dudes aint helping her with a damn thing and they aint nowhere to be found most of the time.
    *rolling my eyes*

    • TruthP.,

      {standing ovation and wild cheering}

      Guurl, you ain’t neva lied! I’m sooo happy you told those silly women the truth. See, this is something else that AA women need to get clear about: There are a LOT of Black female misogynists who HATE other BW just as much as DBRBM hate BW. And just like DBRBM, these BF misogynists hate BW despite the fact that Black women are the people—the only people—propping them up. Particularly the only people propping up all these baby mamas and their oow children.

      The same way so many AA males hate the BW who are the ONLY people who engage in civil rights, police brutality, and whatnot protests in support of these BM’s issues—these misogynist BW hate the other BW who are the ONLY people picking up the slack for their missing in action baby daddies.

      It’s sickening. ALL of these nuts who HATE the BW who are the only people foolish enough to help their stupid selves, need to be CUT OFF. Immediately.

      As you said, “My parents were married and their relationship was’nt all sex,relaxing,eating white castles & clubbin on a saturday nights and joking.They dealt with the stress of raising kids,paying bills and everything else.My father came home everyday.My mother saw him EVERYDAY.OF course,they were going to have more stressful moments than someone who only came around once every few months for “big fun”.”

      Indeed. What you described above is the real deal of how real relationships operate. The sun is simply not going to shine everyday. When you’re actually dealing with somebody on an everyday basis, that means you see them during their un-fun moments. Real life, especially adult real life with responsibilities, has plenty of un-fun moments.

      That mess of how so many AA males only come around during fun moments reminds me of another negative trait of the Weekend-Only Baby Daddies. Weekend-Only Baby Daddies are only around when the sun is shining. They’re not there for the un-fun, everyday experiences of 24/7/365 child-rearing.

      They’re not there cleaning up the vomit from a sick child. They’re not there at home afterschool when children are procrastinating from doing their homework. They’re not there in the morning getting the children ready for school. Particularly small children who are playing the “I can’t find my socks/bookbag/shoes” game right before it’s time to leave for school.

      They’re not there on report card pickup days. They’re not there when the teacher calls with some negative feedback about the children’s behavior in school. They’re simply not there for any of the fairly common mini-crises that are a part of actually living with and raising your own children.

      Anyhoo, I’m amazed at how roughly 99.99% of the worst anti-BW misogynists (whether they’re DBRBM or woman-hating BW) depend on the support of BW! That’s crazy. We need to cut ALL of these hateful parasites off! And let them survive (or not) based on whatever support they can get from BM.

      Expect Success!

    • Zoopath says:

      Truth, you had me doing the church dance with that one! I’m glad that you said something to those silly women. How ungrateful and entitled….that’s just so perverse. I just hope that your message was actually taken to heart.

    • Nikita says:

      Truth P-
      Thank you. I just recently asked my girlfriends what kind of relationship do they have – is it a chexship – you know dinner or entertainment and then do the do until the next time either one is bored. Is it an entertainment-ship ? They like the same things, like to do the same things etc.? Is it a financial-ship? Do you exchange chex for things and services ie. fixing the stove etc. Is it a relationship where you are able to let your guard down and trust, where in good and bad times you got each others back, where you are comfortable with each other in silence? MOST of my girlfriends when questioned this way usually get quiet. Most bw do not have “real” relationships with men. They accept one fifth or some variation of a whole and then pretend that whatever pittance they have is the whole dang pie.

      When women deal with women in relationships it is usually the whole. dang. pie. For some reason bw don’t seem to get that. I vet and look out for women who DO get it, and then I keep it moving.

  26. Shuddering at the memory of birth certificates with no father’s name. You haven’t lived as a social worker until you begin termination of parental rights and have to place ads in the newspaper in every city where a putative father might live. My personal record was six, but we had some cases that went into double digits. Shuddering again.

    @Karen R. I couldn’t agree more. I had all types of complications with my son and had to go on bedrest the last two months of my pregnancy. I have no idea what I would’ve done if we’d been trying to live on just my income.

    @tyco, I get so angry and frustrated when these NWNW naysayers talk about building a network. What they mean is dumping their responsibilities on other overburdened black women. Black women raise their children then their children expect them to raise their children as well. Time out for the foolishness. Raising children is a tough job and when you’re finished you’ve earned a much-needed rest. I know too many women who took over the thankless job of raising other folks children. And I do mean THANKLESS. You’ve never seen such ingratitude from the mother and from the children.

  27. Patricia Kayden says:

    I have a sad situation at my church where an unmarried, young BW is having a baby OOW. I don’t understand why she would choose to do this when she has two married parents and lives a middle class life (parents own their own business and live in a posh house).

    This is what bothers me — young BW throwing away their lives. Why not emulate her parents and wait to have children after getting married?

    • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

      Hello Patricia,

      I know of similar. I was an undergrad in California and this older BM who worked at the college I attended took a liking to me. He and his wife invited me (along with some other students) over to their home for dinner.

      Well when I got there I met their whole family and the only daughter (we were similar in age) was very pregnant. I don’t know how many moths, but she was showing huge. Not engaged no wedding in sight, but her boyfriend was there to partake of the meal as well. The son was in college, but she wasn’t and wasn’t working either.

      I was kind of shocked. They were from Mississippi and very religious. It was obvious they had worked hard to provide for their family – the neighborhood was a nice one and their home was nice and almost paid for.

      I also have an ex- BM Bajan friend raised by both parents. They are professionals he works at his father’s firm and his younger sister now has 3 children and I think she’s 21. All of these fathers are over 35. The first was 30 when she was 15 and he had more than 1 15 year old pregnant at the same time. Some of the men would come to their home and use the phone, eat dinner etc. My ex friend would get enraged and vent with me, but no one ever did anything – like call the police or beat these men’s butts.

      So it happens.

      • Karen says:

        …All of these fathers are over 35. The first was 30 when she was 15 and he had more than 1 15 year old pregnant at the same time.

        Wait.a.minute!!! That is statutory rape!!!!

        The legal experts please correct me if I am wrong, but 15 is under the legal age of consent. Why did they not go to the police and file criminal charges!!!!

        This goes right back to my statement that everyone knows that the majority of BMs do not protect their children. SMH

        • ak says:

          I know. Exactly. Why are black people (a lot of black men) so in love with stautory rape? They love to do it.

          When whites do statutory rape and you hear about it and see it on the news or on Dateline, talk shows, or the long ago-cancelled 48 Hours, it’s being criminalized and someone has taken the innocence of a young person, usually a girl. But black people think statutory rape is just A-OK and just fine to continue with but do they need to have it criminalized within the media for them to know it’s all wrong?

          I went on the Yahoo answers website and saw a couple of black women or girls ask ‘Why was R. Kelly considered a pedophile?’ And some BM said that when the Mexicans commit statutory rape nobody uses that term towards them or accuses them. Well he probably would just jump off of a cliff if some Mexican person did as well. Because another culture disrespects their teen girls, why do black people have to do the same to their own?

      • Karen,

        Each state has its own laws about the age of consent. For example, see this chart at http://www.ageofconsent.us/ [Note: I’m not vouching for its accuracy, I’m just using it as an example.]

        On a practical level, it’s very difficult to successfully prosecute those sorts of cases. If there’s no baby that’s the product of the statutory rape, it’s even more difficult.

        The underage girls are typically under tremendous pressure from everybody around them to recant their accusations, even when it’s true. All that mess that’s popular among AAs about “don’t help the WM bring a brotha down,” “don’t ruin a brotha’s life over some sex,” “that’s what you get for being fast” and so on.

        Expect Success!

        • Karen says:

          Thank you for the list. At the time this list was issued, the legal age of consent started with 16 in all U.S. states.

          The fact that this young girl was pregnant at 15 with a 30 year old man, would have most likely been sufficient to proceed with a criminal prosecution. The baby would have been the proof that sexual intercourse had taken place.

          However, sadly to your point, AAs regularly throw AA women and girls under the bus.

    • pioneervalleywoman says:

      I think there can be something else going on in these types of cases, something Deborah Cooper called “Falling for the Baby-Mama Okey-Doke.” The cases being talked about here seem to fit. Young black women who are together, on their road to going places, and/or coming from established family backgrounds, being targeted by dbrbm who want them to become baby-mamas. The young women become another statistic, they get held back and they always retain a tie to the men who impregnate them…

      http://survivingdating.com/dont-be-dumb-by-falling-for-the-baby-momma-okey-doke

  28. Evia says:

    @ TruthP re:

    Khadija, this was a room full of single women and single mothers.
    I was so angry and upset by this for numerous reasons and I just had to speak up and tell it and I DID.
    I interrupted the convo to let them know how STUPID they sound.
    I told them that almost EVERY ONE of the women in that room were depending on other BLACK WOMEN for support either for their OOW children or for themselves in some way.All of the single mothers’ baby daddies were AWOL.

    OMG, TruthP YOU have made my day, my month, my year!! LOL!!!! If I don’t hear anything sensible from a bw for a long time, I will remember you and know that when things look their most dim, all shut eyes ain’t sleep. (Clapping for your SUPPORT of ALL of us bw!)

    If AA women could just admit that that other AA women in general AND white men in general (currently) are their bread and butter, it would clear up a lot of their confusion and insane behavior and they could better focus their support on those in general who actually support them the most. And these 2 groups are the most valuable to a typical bw because they can often be COUNTED ON for support.

    I’ve definitely had run-ins with other bw, but y’all will never hear or read me shedding a negative light on other bw–NOT in general–BECAUSE I know that as flawed as some other bw may be, they are still (in general) my bread and butter. We’re ALL flawed. But, no one of us is an island; we ALL need support sometimes. WHO are any one of us bw most likely to get support from?????

    This is why I’ve always urged bw to SUPPORT other bw, to even look for ways to support other bw, whenever they sanely can.

    And as foul as a lot of wm have been to bw and still are, if not for wm in general, bw would be in a LOT worse condition than we are–particularly now. As Khadija pointed out in a recent essay here, if not for wm law enforcement, DBRbm would be assaulting AA women for sure a whole lot worse these days.

    One of the most stupid things a person can do is to ish where they eat. Never, ever, ever do that!!! AA men definitely know that AA women in general are their bread and butter (but won’t admit it since they don’t plan to reciprocate) and this is why they are not going to turn the masses of AA women loose without strife. However, this is exactly why the bulk of bw will quietly FLEE because the internet and other 24-7 media has fortunately allowed a LOT of bw to see that bm are ishing where they eat. Bitter bm talk all kinds of mess about bw but they still hang on to bw with all their might because bw are their ONLY bread and butter.

    And yeah, some of us bw tell it like it is about bm because SO many of them are parasites. We’re trying to get bw to FLEE ASAP and destroy the bridges so that parasitic bm can’t follow.

    Under the patriarchy, women in general have been indoctrinated to think less of other women, but lots of AA women and bw in similar situations have an INTENSE form of disdain for other bw due to not just sexism but due to the bitter black man’s version of misogyny aimed mostly at bw.

    • ak says:

      Evia:

      Under the patriarchy, women in general have been indoctrinated to think less of other women, but lots of AA women and bw in similar situations have an INTENSE form of disdain for other bw due to not just sexism but due to the bitter black man’s version of misogyny aimed mostly at bw.

      Thank you Evia. I have to be honest ever since my teens this INTENSE form of disdain for other BW is what makes me not want to be a BW at all sometimes. It’s not something I should come out and say but there it is. Once in a while, I hope in the next life that I’m ‘something’ different or that things will be different or better for BW.

      There is no other group of people I’ve ever experienced with such destructive and seething self-hatred and sometimes indifference and crabs-in-the-barrel behavior towards each other than BW, and it will be and already is our downfall. We have more self-hatred than even the BM with all of their black-on-black crime out there.

      WW had the indoctrinated, competitive ‘hate on other WW’ thing going on also but FEMINISM is the concept that recognized, pointed out, and tried to resolve these feelings and the indoctrination and white women’s lives have been all the better and more unified for it where it really counts.

  29. PatriciaKayden,

    You said, “This is what bothers me — young BW throwing away their lives. Why not emulate her parents and wait to have children after getting married?”

    Because as Evia explained in the comment quoted above, many AA women are doing self-destructive things like oow and shacking to accommodate the relationship terms set by damaged Black males. This sort of thing is the end result of AA women engaging in self-limiting “nuthin’ but a BM” thinking. Since most AA males won’t offer marriage, the (foolish) BW who limit themselves to dealing with AA males resign themselves to being baby mamas.
    _____________________________________________

    Evia,

    You said, “If AA women could just admit that that other AA women in general AND white men in general (currently) are their bread and butter, it would clear up a lot of their confusion and insane behavior and they could better focus their support on those in general who actually support them the most. And these 2 groups are the most valuable to a typical bw because they can often be COUNTED ON for support.”

    Yes, WM in general are currently feeding (through the provision of jobs created and controlled by WM) and protecting BW and children (in the form of WM-dominated law enforcement). If it wasn’t for WM-dominated law enforcement, there would be mass gang-rapes in Black residential areas. There would be a Dunbar Village and Rowan Towers-type atrocity happening all day, everyday in Black neighborhoods. It. Would. Be. Just. Like. The Congo. And. Rwanda. And. Haiti.

    You said,“Bitter bm talk all kinds of mess about bw but they still hang on to bw with all their might because bw are their ONLY bread and butter.”

    One trivial example of this are the bitter Black male trolls who obsessively read and stalk BWE and BF-IRR blogs. These bitter BM are absolutely terrified of more AA women waking up, smelling the coffee, and MOVING ON to men in the global village. Bitter BM know that they can’t compete in any way with protective and provider men in the global village. All bitter BM can say for themselves is to try to resurrect the Magical Black Penis Myth™ (the fact that this myth is all they can say for themselves is beyond pathetic). Bitter BM know that once AA women stop propping them up, it’s over for them. BW are the only resource they currently control. BM don’t control any other resource. And, using past behavior as a predictor, BM will never control any other resource.

    You said, “And yeah, some of us bw tell it like it is about bm because SO many of them are parasites. We’re trying to get bw to FLEE ASAP and destroy the bridges so that parasitic bm can’t follow.”

    Yes—burn the bridges! Pronto!

    Expect Success!

  30. foreverloyal says:

    Great post as usual Khadija.

    Honestly I used to think that you and Evia were exaggerating, just a tiny bit about how bad it’s gotten. It’s slightly scary to realize that you weren’t exaggerating to make a point, you were simply stating the plain truth.

    The angry voices virulently and violently opposing decency, safety, and commonsense. It boggles the mind.

    It’s long past time to drop the dead weight.

    • IRockIRoll says:

      You are not the only one. It seriously took me moving to a majority black city to realize that those “90’s hood” movies were… uh… kinda true! Yeah, I definitely knew and know some trifling folks, but I knew trifling folks who were white and hispanic too!

      I didn’t fully realize the dysfunction until I had a woman tell me that she didn’t know anyone who was black who had stay-at-home moms in their families (either until the kids graduated high school or were in school) except for me. And that while I realize (especially TODAY), that the ability to take time off to have children and be with them in their most formative years is a crazy luxury, many black women from major cities looked at me with cross-eyes because I had actually entertained the thought in the FIRST place. Only WHITE women did that. THAT’S when I realized that the OOW childbirth situation was already entrenched for generations in some families, and wasn’t a new thing that folks were trying to find the “bright-side” of.

      • Lisa99 says:

        I’ve seen this on some BW-oriented message boards (many of which I no longer read because they are so struggle-oriented). When the discussion of staying at home came up once, someone said, “This is a white woman’s conversation. This is not relevant to us.”

        Really? Wow.

    • …Occasionally you have to drag the devil out from his lair & into the middle of Towne Square…Lest anyone claims he doesn’t exist ㋛

      “…Honestly I used to think that you and Evia were exaggerating, just a tiny bit about how bad it’s gotten. It’s slightly scary to realize that you weren’t exaggerating to make a point, you were simply stating the plain truth.”

      @Forever Loyal -Unfortunately it is even much worse than what Khadija, Evia, etc has mentioned…Welcome to the Darkside…LOL! My immediate family fled the ghetto to escape these types…It is not enough that they are drinking the poison, you must partake as well…

      Not trying to derail but was told a while back that this is a spirit of oppression & defeat…

      P.S. I know these people don’t really want proof…However, it is my job to be a constant annoying dripping in this matter : )

      …If we can help 2 or 3 people at STOP and THINK before entering these destructive unions, it is worthwhile to me…Many times I find that young girls tow the ‘deadweight partyline’ on autopilot…It is as if they cannot see any other way unless someone flashes neon caution signs…

      BTW Rozlyn ╰✬╮★·.·´¯╰✬╮★·.·CONGRATULATIONS!!!´¯`·.·.·★`·.·.·★

  31. joyousnerd says:

    The shotgun wedding is one of the best inventions in human history! In my own family, there is a similar example that has made a lasting impact for generations as well.

    My mother’s family came to America from a small, poor country in central Europe. My great-grandparents were married basically because she had status but no money, and he had (family) money but no status. That’s how it was in those days. So they married and had 3 kids, but he was awful with spending lavishly and not wanting to work. When hard times hit, he said he was going to the capital city to find a better job and he would send his wages home. Many men from there still do this… they work wherever in the world they can get paid best, and send every dime home.

    Well, he thought he was cute and boarded a ship for America. He never sent a dime! He left his wife and 3 children penniless to struggle on a level that most Americans cannot even understand: 3rd world broke. Meanwhile he was living it up with booze and loose women in America.

    All the fun stopped one day when his wife’s 3 brothers found him. Yes, they literally tracked him to another CONTINENT. They had a “conversation” with him… which means those three men beat him literally to within a single inch of his life. And they let him know that his wife and children would be arriving shortly to join him in the New World. That he WOULD be providing for and protecting his family. He could flee to anywhere on the earth and they would find him. The only options were to do right or DIE.

    He and my great-grandmother lived together as husband and wife with those kids and raised them all to maturity. He was married to her until he died of old age. My grandmother became a nurse and married an engineer… she could not have done so if she had been a discarded starving child in the old country. She had a middle class life and raised 4 children within marriage as well. My own mom messed up a bit by marrying a DBRBM, but she was able to get back on her feet and remarry a successful white man who raised me and my brother.

    The moral of this long story is this… men are inclined to be lazy selfish and trifling. It is only culture and the policing of decent men who keep the DBRs of any group in check. The wise woman makes sure that she chooses a man with decent values who comes from a culture that has decent men policing the deadbeats. BM don’t fit the bill.

    • Karen says:

      Khadija,

      You said, “True that. Modern AA males have abandoned any and all responsibility for what happens to BW and children, including the ones in their personal orbits. I find it utterly amazing and disgusting that—to this day—NONE of the Black male fathers of any of Ar-ruh Kelly’s many, many underage Black girl victims has laid a hand on him, shot a bullet his way, or at minimum had him arrested. Including Aaliyah’s father”

      This is the final indictment on the majority of modern AA males. They do not protect their children and modern predators KNOW this. This is the primary reason why so many bad things happen to AA children whether in primary care of their Baby Mamas or in some program. EVERYONE knows that the majority of AA BMs do not care for their children. It matters not whether they are poor or rich, the majority show with their actions that their children are of no consequence.

      Time to move on….

      • Karen,

        Thanks for taking the time to repost your comment after I accidentally deleted it!

        I 100% cosign. It’s way past time for AA women to move on.

        Expect Success!

        • Karen says:

          Thanks for taking the time to repost your comment after I accidentally deleted it!

          You are quite welcome :-).

  32. ForeverLoyal,

    Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it.

    You said, “Honestly I used to think that you and Evia were exaggerating, just a tiny bit about how bad it’s gotten. It’s slightly scary to realize that you weren’t exaggerating to make a point, you were simply stating the plain truth.”

    Oh, I understand. When you’re surrounded by other normal people leading decent lives, it’s easy to lose track of how deranged the AA masses are. I’ve spent large chunks of my work life dealing with the AA masses, so I see a lot of crazy things in large numbers that others don’t see. And it’s not just the Black underclass that’s totally out of touch with almost all human norms. As Evia said in the comment that I’ve quoted from several times, these deranged underclass behaviors and mindsets are gravitating UP the AA social tiers.

    Christelyn’s NWNW initiative pulled the covers and masks off a lot of edu-macated Black folks who had been fronting as responsible, sensible people online. Well, now the truth stands revealed where more people can see it—not just those folks (like me) who work with the AA masses.
    _______________________________________________

    JoyousNerd,

    You said, “The shotgun wedding is one of the best inventions in human history! In my own family, there is a similar example that has made a lasting impact for generations as well.”

    Yes, indeed. There are examples in my own family also. Neither one of my grandfathers tolerated certain behaviors when it came to their daughters. This included my paternal grandfather who was a womanizing, dirtbag himself. He did not—and would not—tolerate other men treating his daughter the way he treated his own wife and other women.

    You said, “The moral of this long story is this… men are inclined to be lazy selfish and trifling. It is only culture and the policing of decent men who keep the DBRs of any group in check. The wise woman makes sure that she chooses a man with decent values who comes from a culture that has decent men policing the deadbeats. BM don’t fit the bill.”

    True that. Modern AA males have abandoned any and all responsibility for what happens to BW and children, including the ones in their personal orbits. I find it utterly amazing and disgusting that—to this day—NONE of the Black male fathers of any of Ar-ruh Kelly’s many, many underage Black girl victims has laid a hand on him, shot a bullet his way, or at minimum had him arrested. Including Aaliyah’s father.

    I give old-school AA men credit for the fact that, back in the day, Chester The Molester had a hard way to go if anybody found out about his pedophile activities. Chester The Molester often “came up missing” or was found face-down-dead in an alley somewhere.

    Expect Success!

  33. Oops! My apologies to Karen for accidentally deleting her comment. 🙁

    {**Update** Karen has graciously taken the time to repost her comment—it’s up above. Thanks!}

    Karen,

    I’m sorry—I accidentally deleted your comment. I agree with what you said. Yes, sexual predators DO know that modern AA males are NOT going to do anything at all about these predators’ ongoing sexual molestation of Black children. Even when predators attack AA males’ own flesh and blood.

    IIRC, a White, gay male predator commented about this mass lack of protection in his confession to the police. To sum up, he knew that there’s an endless supply of such abandoned, and unprotected Black children in foster care. He also knew that nobody was really going to scrutinize what he was doing with the Black boy(s) he adopted:

    Frank Lombard is the associate director of Duke’s Center for Health Policy. The university administrator was recently arrested by the FBI and charged with offering up his adopted 5-year-old son for sex. I tried to contact Frank Lombard over the weekend to probe his expertise regarding the health benefits of raping small children. So far, he’s declined to comment.

    University administrator Lombard is accused of logging on to a chat room online and describing himself as a “perv dad for fun.” The detective who wisely looked into the suspicious screen name says that Lombard admitted to molesting his own adopted son. All this was before allegedly inviting a stranger to travel to North Carolina from another state to statutorily rape his already-molested adopted son.

    More from the article, “… it will be interesting to see how Duke faculty members respond to Frank Lombard. Because he is white, Lombard is fair game at Duke, isn’t he? But Lombard is also gay, so will that complicate things?

    Unfortunately for Frank Lombard, the affidavit in support of his arrest warrant shows that this second Duke rape case will also have a strong racial component. According to a confidential source (CS) a man using the user name “cooper2” or “cooperse” logged onto an internet-based video chat room. CS saw him perform oral sex on an African-American child under the age of ten. He also performed other acts on the child, which are too obscene to be described in this column.

    The user name “cooper2” has now been linked to Frank Lombard, the associate director Duke University’s Center for Health Policy. A second source has now alleged that ‘cooper2′ has confessed to being ‘into incest’ and that he has adopted two African American children.”

    http://www.blackinformant.com/headlines/perv-dad-for-fun

    I mentioned the above appalling episode during a conversation at the previous blog (which is now a chapter in the book, “Yet Another Emerging, Disastrous Trend: Normalizing Single Adoption As “Plan B” For Black Women Who Haven’t Married By 35”). During that post, I warned single BW about the huge risks and problems associated with adopting Ray-Ray’s cast-off children:

    Let me mention some additional “reality check” observations I’ve made while working in the court system:

    1. Regardless of the mother’s race, the vast majority of the children in foster care are Black men’s children. Let’s call these Black biological fathers “Ray-Ray” during this post.

    2. Ray-Ray’s cast-off or had-to-be-taken-away children often have negative genetic inheritances that include things like low IQs, developmental delays, and a predisposition to mental illness.

    3. When Ray-Ray impregnates a higher-caliber Becky or Lupe, these women are more likely to be quick to unload their unwanted half-Black child onto the child welfare system. These women unload these children as infants, who are then usually quickly snapped up by infertile White couples. Often, White social workers will steer these infants into the homes of infertile White couples. These are usually not the children “left over” that are available to be adopted by single Black women.

    . . . 5. When Ray-Ray impregnates a Sheniqua, these Sheniquas typically keep their babies even when they know they can’t properly take care of them. This means that they don’t give them up for adoption as infants. The children have to be taken away from them when they’re older. Again, all of this means that the ultimately had-to-be-taken-away child has been subjected and exposed to all sorts of aberrant behavior. This context has grave implications for how the child will behave when later adopted by the often naive, single Black female parent.

    6. I have seen cases where the had-to-be-taken-away child was originally sexually abused by Ray-Ray or DeShawn, and placed in the home of unaware, unsuspecting, naive adoptive parents. Some of these previously sexually abused, had-to-be-taken-away children then went on to molest the adoptive parents’ biological children, or children in the new neighborhood. People need to understand that social workers don’t always know the full extent of the child’s past history. In some instances they know, but don’t tell these sorts of things to prospective adoptive parents.

    . . . 8. I’ll be blunt about the bottom line to this issue. Any woman who plans to use single parent adoption as a Plan B to not finding a suitable husband needs to think carefully through all of these possibilities. I’m not trying to discourage single Black women from adoption, as long as they are making fully informed choices. It’s understandable that folks don’t want to miss out on being a parent. However, the reality check is that it may be better for such women to explore the additional options of purchasing an infant from overseas. [Again, I’m saying these things the blunt way.]

    Best of all would be for Black women who are in their childbearing years to focus their attention and efforts on expanding their dating pool to increase the odds of finding a suitable husband. This means expanding their dating pool to include men from all races and ethnicities.

    To have an entire generation of single African-American women planning on adopting Ray-Ray’s cast-off or had-to-be-taken-away children as Plan B is an absolute catastrophe. On many, many levels. A catastrophe that will ultimately help entrench the emerging Endless Night of Permanent Underclass Status for African-Americans.

    As I said during that original conversation,

    Yes, I’ve heard of situations with toddlers displaying truly bizarre behaviors in foster/adoptive home:

    1-uncontrollable violent tantrums (as in literally smashing their heads into walls);

    2-extreme food hoarding (insisting upon maintaining a supply of whatever was just served for breakfast, etc. in their pockets);

    3-extreme sexualized behaviors (trying to rub adults’ genitals through their clothes, etc.).

    I’m not saying that every (or even most) foster child is likely to display these sorts of horror show behaviors. But the possibility exists; and most folks who haven’t worked in the system have NO IDEA about any of this. Nor are they prepared to handle something like this when it manifests.

    If I was going to adopt, I would want an INFANT as close to straight out of the hospital as possible. And, like you, I would find out as much as possible about the natural parents’ personal history (prison? drug use? psychiatric hospitalizations? whatever). For all of the reasons that have been discussed.

    I KNOW that this conversation is upsetting a LOT of our sisters. I can feel their silent distress while reading.

    A lot of AAW have used idealized, fuzzy thoughts of adoption as a way of avoiding dealing with the harsh reality that a successful Plan A (marriage with a suitable, quality man) is NOT compatible with a “nuthin’ but a BM” dating strategy. For all of the reasons that have been discussed ad infinitum on various blogs.

    I hate to snatch yet another mental “security blanket” out of my sisters’ arms, but I want BW to win! NOT to see BW get caught up in difficult, painful lives that they never anticipated would be the end result of the “nuthin’ but a BM” dating strategy.

    So, I’m truly sorry that this conversation is causing distress, but everybody needs to be clear about the realities of these various scenarios. I and various commenters like Felicia, Beverly, and others want BW to win!-

    Now, of course, damaged BM are deeply upset by these sorts of conversations where BWE bloggers are encouraging other BW to lay down the burdens that MEN are supposed to carry. Such as the burden of protecting and providing for an entire ethnic group/race of Black/AA children. It’s NOT a woman’s job to fight men to fend off pedophiles. MEN are supposed to police other males. So, of course, a DBRBM wrote in during that conversation deeply frightened of BW laying down that particular burden. I didn’t publish his comment, but I did reply when I said,

    An Internet Ike Turner just submitted some comments that I (of course) rejected.

    (1) I WON’T give publicity to any Internet Ike Turners or their blogs. The same way I won’t give publicity to racist blogs. I’m NOT part of these individuals’ public relations machinery.

    (2) I have NO interest in wasting my time attempting to dialogue with Internet Ike Turners. It’s just a bad-faith, deceptive trick that they use to try to disrupt Black women’s blog conversations.

    However, I will mention this one question raised by this particular “Ike.” Only because I hear similar questions from confused AA women.

    The Internet Ike Turner asked, “So what should be done with these children? Do we not give them the chance for a normal lifestyle? I doubt that Foster care would provide that.”

    What should be done with these children? BLACK MEN should adopt these children. All of the numbers of good, caring, decent BM should open their hearts and open their homes to these children.

    There’s NOTHING stopping caring BM from doing this, regardless of their marital status. Since many (if not most) states allow openly gay people to adopt, they don’t have problems with single BM adoptive parents.

    This is similar to how there’s NOTHING stopping BM from supporting scholarships for Black males, or marching in support of other BM, or doing anything else to meet their various needs.

    I would expect that those BM bloggers who are genuinely concerned about any of this would use at least a small fraction of their blogging time to recruit other caring BM to adopt these children.

    But, of course, AA males are NOT going to do any of that. And the pedophiles know this.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    **Addendum**
    I’m mentioning all of these disgusting things because oow and the lack of protection (of all sorts) that comes with oow, is at the root of all thse appalling episodes.

    If you want to make a serious dent in stopping the escalating cycle of cast-off, preyed-upon Black children who are filling up the foster care system, the best thing you can do is prevent YOUR future children from being part of these disgusting statistics. You do that by

    (1) stop limiting yourself to only dating BM.

    (2) find a protective and providing quality man in the global village to be your lawfully wedded husband.

    (3) and only have your children within the bounds of marriage.

    Children from married couples are much less likely to fall into the abyss of foster care. For a variety of reasons. Starting with having fathers who cared enough to make themselves automatically legally responsible for them. To inlaws who are much more likely to pick up the slack for a child who is officially part of their family. As opposed to some oow child that some baby mama claims is kin to them.

    Expect Success!

  34. ak says:

    Here’s one real life reason why I can’t get on board with the pro-OOW-palooza team and the single parent pep rally: When I was probably about 10 or 11 my mother had to drive herself to the hospital all on her own while she was having a miscarriage (yes that’s right, not a pretty sight either) and when she got to the hospital the doctor wanted her to stay put and wanted her in a hospital bed right away but she told the doctor that she had to leave because there was no one who could pick me up from school and take me home.

    So she did leave, or she finally had to have a friend who lived in our neighborhood pick me up along with that friend’s two children.

  35. Sandz says:

    You know – I try to tell these girls now, don’t think because you see (oow) children . The system is okay with it.

    I am one – had my daughter right after finishing my Master’s Degree. When I went in to the hospital while in labor, that ordeal was NOT fun on all accounts. I looked young, so the nurse was one mean (shut yo’ mouth) to me when I first went in. As a matter off fact the entire staff was, until my doctor came in, and they saw our report. Later the resident doctor came in and admitted to reading my file to find I was ‘working on my Masters’. In my very tired drug-induced state I corrected him and told him as of two weeks prior I had successfully finished the program with honors and was just awaiting the diploma in hand. From that point on I was Miss (last name) and treated with major respect. (They had realized I wasn’t some young dumb Black girl contributing to the BS. We won’t talk about me yet being a statistic anyway)

    Fast forward to the court-crap. They initially took one look at me and were ticked. They formulated in their minds I was some evil wench out to trap nice young Black man who was trying to get ahead in life. They disrespected my attorney (a Black Woman), and were in essence stonewalling us. Finally I pulled my attorney aside TOLD her what to request. After fighting with her to DO IT!, she went in and they agreed to every one of my requests. She came out surprised.

    Then after meeting with the counselor one-on-one or rather with him and I and HER, she came to realize I was/am very intelligent, and they started taking closer look at him. He had them scrutinizing EVERYTHING I did, just by his words. He even had them believing I was from that state. Only twice, did I have to raise my voice in court, the final time was with my new attorney (a man), because I saw they were agreeing to something that would have me running around in circles again and I wasn’t going to do it anymore.

    And it still isn’t over. We have a new family counselor (a man) and at first, he was pretty mean toward me. As always I kept everything respectful from my end. My intent to have him review our case file before making ANY MORE subjective judgments. I am sure it worked. As recently there was a frivolous complaint, and when I spoke to the counselor he was much more agreeable and almost sympathetic.

    So I totally know and understand.

    We have gone through many trials with people just because I chose to remain single and have ONE child oow. I do NOT recommend it, unless as in my case marrying dude will create a worse situation. Of course let’s take it a step back, you should really know the guy, even knowing if this is the man for whom you would give your life, before even having sex.
    Sex is still giving up your soul to him, and if he isn’t worth your life, he isn’t worth your soul, and then he sure as hell isn’t worth all the BS you’ll go through as a single parent.

    • Sandz,

      Thank you for telling the plain truth. I’m sorry you went through all of that. Having oow children sets up women AND their children for totally unnecessary hardships. AA women need to stop tripping about this basic reality.

      Expect Success!

  36. Muse says:

    I can speak from personal experience that there are definitely advantages to being a child of divorce parents versus a child born out of wedlock. Before the detractors try to twist my words, divorces are not ideal either. The ideal situation is two responsible parents who love each other raising their child or children in a structured environment where they are protected and nurtured. My parents are divorced. Their divorce didn’t get nasty at all because they realized that it was bad enough the family was being broken up so there was no need to add further trauma to the situation. Despite being a product of divorce parents, my siblings and I turned out remarkably well. We all went to top universities and the biggest thing we’ve ever did to tick our parents off was get a speeding ticket. We have normal kid problems growing up. I was able to travel internationally, go to over night summer camp, had tutors, and had other amazing opportunities growing up.

    My parents always lived within 10 to 15 minutes of each other. I have my mom credit for choosing well and my dad credit for not becoming negligent when he remarried. He was very hands on. In fact when he remarried, he asked my mom permission for us to live with him most of the time because he didn’t want my brother and me to feel that we were being discarded. My parents worked extremely hard to co parent and provide stability for me growing up. I would imagine that behind the scenes were was probably disagreements but my siblings and I never saw it.

    I’m in my twenties living on my own and my parents, especially my dad still tries to parent. Sometimes I have to tell dad to mind his own business because he gets too over protective but deep down I appreciate him. As a woman there is a lot of pride that comes with knowing that your father loves and adores you. My dad calls me his legacy. Even with bad break ups I tend to get over ex-boyfriends pretty fast because my self esteem intact. I don’t’ feel needy which is why my tolerance for bull from other men is extremely low. In fact my dad has always said if the man I meet can do a better job of protecting and providing for me then he will give his blessing.

    Sadly most African American men don’t even come close to being able to provide me the life my pops did. He set the bar pretty high. Although I take very good care of myself and have a nice nest egg, there is no way I’m getting with someone only to have the quality of my life go down. I’ve been on dates with African American men called me spoiled, uppidity, or a daddy’s girl. They accused me of being entitled because they didn’t understand that I was raised to expect the best. Then when I inquire if these men had a father, the answer is usually no and there are no more dates after that. There is something very different about men who didn’t grow up with fathers. They don’t seem right in the head to me, even if they had an Ivy League education. There are exceptions to the rule but generally, many of these fatherless men have the love them and leave them mentality when it comes to women. Most of them don’t even see marriage as a big deal.

    Men who did have good relationships with their father don’t think I’m spoiled or entitled when I mention all the cool things my dad does for me. Most men who had fathers think my relationship with dad is adorable. They also recognize that they have to treat me a certain way or there will be severe consequences.

    • Karen R. says:

      @Muse

      You raise a good point. There is something “not quite right in the head” with men who were raised without a father. Their expectations of what is normal is off-kilter.

      Along with advising women to find an Alpha male, I would advise AW to run the other way from a man who was raised without a father.

      • IRockIRoll says:

        You are absolutely both correct about how something is “off” in men without fathers, especially if they were raised in a community with many absent fathers.

        Muse, I’m going to guess that those men were probably also jealous of the relationship that you had with your dad, especially if they were quick to attack you for it. I’ve heard several black men that I know and grew up with (in two parent homes) say that many black boys and men desperately want that father figure that they see on T.V. Sometimes, the T.V. version is all that they HAVE seen. Yet when they are allowed the privilege of fatherhood, they have in mass, rejected the children who MOST resemble them. B/c the majority haven’t seen a day to day relationship of father and child. I think it speaks to some deep insecurity issues and devaluation of self. Which is why black women should leave them alone.

        • pioneervalleywoman says:

          Putting aside seeing how a parent treats a child as something unusual and rejecting their children because they have never seen parenting first hand, they also have not seen men negotiate relationships with women throughout the various facets of those relationships, so they are the types who are most likely to not be able to handle it when their girlfriend becomes pregnant. Suddenly she gets “demanding” in ways they don’t like and appreciate. She is no longer “fun,” or the baby is such a “hassle” and so they leave.

    • Lisa99 says:

      I’m also co-signing the “not right in the head” idea.

      And let me say that some of these men I’ve dated did go on to marry other women and become fathers. I’m sure they are undergoing a learning curve in their new dual role as husband/father and I am pleased that they at least did not continue the cycle.

      That being said, I’m glad I was not the one to have to mold them into an understanding of fatherhood.

      The things I heard included…

      -Jokes about their deadbeat dad/male relatives being “their hero” for having multiple kids (with multiple women)… although when I gave them the side eye, they said, “No that wasn’t cool. I was just joking.” Sure. Right.

      -Annoyance at a baby mama of a deadbeat relative always “surprising” the baby daddy at his mama’s house and bringing the kid over there. I said if the man was seeing his child like he was supposed to, there wouldn’t be a need to “surprise.” If anything, be annoyed at your relative for being a deadbeat.

      -An “understanding” of a man leaving the family if he loses his job because it’s an ego loss. Never mind the fact that he’s leaving his kids fatherless… but he “understood” the blow to the ego if he was out of work for a while and just walked away.

      -A thought it’s just okay if a woman gets pregnant to stay together and try to work it out… but not immediately run to the altar to marry. Because they’re not “ready yet” to marry.

      -Expectations of women to run errands for them, drive them around, help them at all hours, etc.

      So yeah, even though these men did marry and became fathers, do you think I really wanted to be bothered with that mess????

  37. **Audience Note**

    Everybody, please continue talking among yourselves! 🙂

    I’ve said just about all I have to say about this particular topic, so I’m going to sit back and listen for the rest of this conversation.

    Expect Success!

  38. IRockIRoll says:

    Well, if black women are gold diggers, then we are the WORST in the world (shoot, look at the status of our children!), so men should have no problem with us. We, as a collective, have focused our energies on the weakest dudes (and I said dudes not men) on the planet.

    As a woman who has known a few men of means (family money ya’ll, and yes if they were single I would be ON IT)… they don’t worry about “gold-diggers” and never have in a small-minded sense… b/c most black men talk about gold-digging in the “paying for dinner terms”. For real.

    These men were worried about “gold-digging” in the “We have a family apartment in France, a home in Mexico City, and a Summer House in Cape Cod”. They had trust-funds. They didn’t HAVE to technically work to get by based on passive income alone if they were frugal (and one, not so frugal). That is when I realized what Gold-Digging WAS.*

    So, as a heads up ladies, if a man comes at you with “Gold-Digging” accusations, unless you’ve asked for something that costs your mortgage/rent/car-note or more at the beginning of a relationship… he is BROKE and is screening you for his future ability to NOT provide. That “gold-digger” label is simply used as a test. FAIL THAT MESS WITH A CAPITOL F. I’m not saying be greedy or ridiculous. But if a man ASKS you out for dinner, and then looks at the check to see what you’ll do… miss that noise. My grandpa told me that when I was in middle school (about a boy buying me nachos, “Did he just cover them?”), and that set my tone for LIFE that if a man wants to treat you to something, he’ll do it, no questions asked b/c he wants to protect and provide for the girl/woman he’s interested in. For those of ya’ll without my grandparents…

    If a man asks to take you out to dinner, and somewhere special at that, and then looks at the check post-dinner (and I’ve had fools try to pull this one on me when the tab ranged from $15-$100+)… go to the bathroom… for a MINUTE. Like 5. If that check is STILL sitting there and he looks at you AGAIN when you get back… you know to roll out. All of my grandparents (even one of my trifling grandpa’s) said that this particular move goes back to like 1930 or something to find out how desperate a woman is. If you can look past it, it means that you have enough suitors to accept the fact that you had pleasing company, but you have more to offer than half of your meal.

    * I had several friends with mothers from third world countries growing up. Now that I am much more serious about finding a partner, I realize that these women had GREAT relationship advice growing up, and I’m combining it with my grandmother’s and grandfathers’ advice. THOSE WOMEN GOLD-DUG. I’m talking marrying the super skinny white dude that was in Columbia for a minute in the 70’s doing a journalism job. She saw her way out and TOOK IT. As a result, she has a lovely family and a husband who loves her to.this.day. The same with several Asian & an Indian mom I knew growing up. So these days, yeah, I’m not that shy about trying to miss out on the mass black pathology. In hindsight, I realize that these women simply saw better opportunities for them and theirs by taking a chance, and I’M entitled to those same opportunities for me and mine!

  39. Valerie says:

    One of the biggest problems, is that people need to wake up and learn about their rights. People have to understand the importance of marriage. It is very silly for people to cite Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt, they are multi millionaires, they have both been married before.

    However people pretend, people with children out of wedlock are in poverty, which goes on from generation to generation.

  40. Hodan says:

    How did I miss this post?….let me just act like a child and say yay me, Khadija have quoted me :)-

    Roslyn Holcomb; “You’re doggoned right I’m a golddigger and darned proud of it. Poverty is no joke. People treat you like crap in this country when you’re poor, and a “program” is no substitute for a child’s God-given right to his parent’s resources. I wonder if these naysayers have ever written a check for summer camp? Music lessons? Sports teams? Enrichment programs? Well I have and it’s no joke. And it only gets more expensive from there. But my children need these things to be competitive. Where the heck do they think the “achievement gap” comes from? Children coming from “programs” cannot compete against children who’ve been home-schooled, gone to summer camps, museums and enrichment classes. It simply cannot be done”

    Hodan: I’m with you 100% Only in the black community, black men in particular would snare at what every other women from all ethnic and nationality take as their God giving right: not to struggle in poverty with their children. No one accuses Christian, Muslim Hindi women around the world or in our countries by their men or communities as ‘golddigger’s because they refused to be baby mamas to God awful worthless of a man who does not care for his offspring. In fact, if you told these same black women defending the defenseless to go out and father children with white men or other non-black men without any protection, they would loudly object. So, my question is, why would you tolerate it from your own community?

    Lastly, in the words of Dr. Barbara Sizemore, ‘politics is the passing around of the resources in capitalism’. In our capitalistic society, marriage is a form of guarantee for your own financial protection and more importantly that of your own children….not to mention passing it on to your future grandchildren.

  41. LorMarie says:

    Just to add another perspective…Not all women who don’t see the benefits of marriage have ill motives. I used to be one of them. Why? I, for the most part, don’t see the benefits in play for most married black women I have observed. It appears that white and Asian women are reaping the benefits because they marry men who are able to provide for them. Most of the married black women I know are the breadwinners providing the benefits instead of receiving them. I was born in wedlock to a mother who was the primary provider during her marriage to my father and after their divorce, she was the sole provider. Another woman’s ex-husband is back in jail so she gets nothing (he had nothing). Yet another woman’s ex-husband manages to remain jobless so she gets zero child support (all three kids are his). BTW, some men trick the system by working off the books or magically losing their jobs so that they don’t have to pay. The scenarios go on and on. So more often than not, I don’t see black women benefitting from marriage. However, this does NOT mean that bw should just throw marriage under the bus. BW need to connect with men who are able to be the providers they need and deserve.

  42. Sabra says:

    I’m sending this link to my d. to send to her best friend- you don’t have to be AA to put up with this nonsense.
    We live in a common law state, but still, all the points you make are so good.
    Thank you so much for this.

  43. […] Self-proclaimed Good Black Men™ also like to pretend that underclass African-American male “Pookies” and “Ray-Rays” are the primary, if not only, source of the majority out of wedlock child rate within the African-American collective. They’re not. And that most of the African-American males who abandon their children fit Pookie’s and Ray-Ray’s profile. They don’t. At least not from what I saw while doing defense rotations in my area’s child support courtrooms. The educated, working Good Black Men™ that I represented in those cases ALSO did not want to recognize or financially support their children. I talked about the horrors Black women in particular often go through in oow paternity cases in the post, You Betta Recognize That It’s FAR Better To Be A Divorced Mother Than A Never-Married Mother With …. […]