V For Vendetta

R FOR RETRIBUTION

I’m not a cheek-turning Christian. Even though I believe that a low-negativity lifestyle is essential for optimal living, I also recognize the necessity of just, lawful retribution. It’s unpleasant, but sometimes retribution is necessary. It becomes impossible to have life at all, much less optimal life, in an atmosphere where predators roam unchecked. Inflicting punishment on predators for their wrongdoing does more than simply restrain the immediate predator. It also discourages aspiring predators from acting out their wishes. This is a matter of common sense and public safety.

So, I’m not a person who has philosophical problems with the idea and practice of retribution. For example, I feel that it’s just, fitting and appropriate that the state of Israel hunts down every surviving Nazi that can be found, and makes them pay for what they did decades ago. I don’t care that surviving Nazis are elderly or sick. When it comes to certain levels of wrongdoing, I’m not swayed by considerations of age or poor health. I’m not moved by tearful claims of repentance from wrongdoers. Depending on what they did, they can repent from their prison cells or the prison hospital. Others of them can repent from their graves, as far as I’m concerned.

Nevertheless, I do have practical concerns when it comes to retribution. It only makes sense to me when it’s reasonably calculated to accomplish the point of retribution: to return an injury for an injury; to inflict punishment on the person or group who wronged you. If the only thing accomplished by the so-called retribution is heaping more injury on the aggrieved party, then it’s just some more injustice disguised as retribution.

I’ve been following an interesting discussion in response to Halima’s latest blog post at Black Female Interracial Relationship Circle. The responses given by one commenter highlight the self-imposed difficulties that many African-American women create for themselves in the realm of life opportunities.

When you look at their statements and actions, it becomes clear that many African-American women mistakenly think they’re pursuing an honorable conflict against the White slavemasters and segregationists who murdered and oppressed our people. This is the emotional terrain underlying the public declarations that they would never date or marry outside their race, the constant references to our past White oppressors and the atrocities they committed, the emotionally closed and hostile demeanor in response to all modern White men, and other behaviors that only serve to narrow their opportunities for personal fulfillment. This is a popular posture among African-American women.

The harsh reality is that the Black women who engage in these behaviors aren’t pursuing some honorable conflict against the Whites who oppressed our people, instead they’re chasing a self-defeating grudge.

AN OPEN LETTER TO AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN WHO CARRY RESENTMENT AGAINST ALL MODERN WHITES BECAUSE OF SLAVERY AND SEGREGATION

Let me reemphasize that I’m not a cheek-turning Christian; and that I’m all for punishing wrongdoers. I want everybody who commits injustice and atrocities against African-Americans to be punished. I want all such persons to pay for what they did. Remember the purpose of retribution: to return an injury for an injury; to inflict punishment on the person or group who wronged you. Let’s measure what you’re doing, and see if you’re accomplishing any of this.

OUR FORMER SLAVEMASTERS AND ALMOST ALL OF BULL CONNOR’S GENERATION OF SEGREGATIONISTS ARE LONG DEAD. SO, NOW WHAT?

To those of you who are holding onto resentment against all modern Whites because of slavery and segregation: The Whites who committed the worst of what our people have suffered in this country are long dead. And they got away with doing what they did. Whatever opportunities we had to seek retribution against these people are long gone. So, now what? [For this particular conversation, I won’t even go into the question of why you feel it’s appropriate for you as women—instead of Black men—to assume the responsibility for avenging our people. Have Israeli men been leaving it up to their women to seek revenge against surviving Nazis or Arab terrorists?]

I FOR INJUSTICE, INDISCRIMINATE GRUDGES AND IDOL WORSHIP

I ask you again: Since these people are mostly dead, now what? On what basis do you resent and hate White people, and White men in particular, who haven’t wronged you? If your plan is to seek retribution from people other than the ones who have wronged us (or are wronging us), then you’ve veered off course from seeking just retribution. And into the territory of committing injustice.

Indiscriminately lashing out at people who haven’t participated in wronging you is what terrorists do. Furthermore, I don’t believe that you’re sincerely interested in retribution for what our ancestors suffered. If you were, you’d raise money to hire private investigators to seek out evidence against the few surviving White segregationists from that era. And have them sued and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

You haven’t done any of that. In fact, it never occurred to you to do this. This lets me know that what’s motivating your indiscriminate grudge against modern White men isn’t a desire for justice for our ancestors, even though that’s the pretext that you use. You don’t care about what our ancestors suffered. You don’t care about your own suffering, or what other Black women, girls and babies are suffering right now at the hands of predators within Black residential areas, so I know you don’t care about what our ancestors suffered.

No, what’s really motivating this behavior is your idol worship of Black men. And Black men use your idol worship and indiscriminate grudge against modern White men as an instrument of their ambitions. Instead of trying to compete with White men as other men compete with them (Asian men, Arab men, and so on), Black men sic you and your grudge on their White male competitors. To clear the path for them while they’re free to marry, protect, and provide for these same White men’s sisters to their hearts’ content.

M FOR MISDIRECTED PUNISHMENT

Who are you punishing with your indiscriminate grudge against modern Whites and White men in particular? Who suffers loss and injury behind this? Definitely not the surviving White segregationists. You’re not trying to find or punish these individuals. Not the modern anti-Black racists. This is because instead of fighting anti-Black racism across the board, you only respond when Black men intermittently use you to fight the particular White male racists who are blocking their ambitions. Not the legions of violent, Black criminals who are preying on you and your loved ones within Black residential areas. These violent Black criminals don’t suffer because of your grudge. In fact, they use your indiscriminate grudge against Whites, and White men in particular, to their benefit. They use you and your grudge to help them escape punishment for their crimes.

The only one who suffers loss and injury because of your indiscriminate grudge against modern Whites, and White men in particular, is YOU. You’re the one who’s missing opportunities to enjoy what the wider world has to offer because of your indiscriminate grudge. And you’re alone in missing out. Black men have never let anything stand in the way of them enjoying what the wider world has to offer.

Perhaps you should reconsider this indiscriminate grudge that you’ve been carrying around.

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33 Responses to “V For Vendetta”

  1. Oshun says:

    “This is because instead of fighting anti-Black racism across the board, you only respond when Black men intermittently use you to fight the particular White male racists who are blocking their ambitions. ”

    Hello Khadija,

    This is an amazing post. I think that quote sums it all up. I feel like I have been a part of a huge mind game. I think very few if any of the incidents that have occurred since I have been alive have ever been about fighting anti-Black racism across the board. I think sometimes there is a spin that takes place in Black media outlets to make some instances appear as though they can impact the collective if we don’t act immediately, when actually they are personal grievances.

  2. Felicia says:

    Khadija,

    This is one of your MOST profound (if not THE most profound) essays yet.

    You’ve outdone yourself.

    THANK YOU for hopefully causing black women to THINK with their MINDS and not their manipulated emotions.

    I hope this particular essay of yours gets circulated widely.

    “Indiscriminately lashing out at people who haven’t participated in wronging you is what terrorists do.”

    This is so DEEP and so TRUE. If BW truly wish to be thought of as individuals – and don’t want negative stereotypes attributed to them willy-nilly (in a haphazard or spontaneous manner) then they TOO are going to have to be willing to judge people – ALL people – including WM, as the INDIVIDUALS they are.

    People revel their true selves and intentions soon enough. If BW were to simply believe what their gut and eyes are telling them, so much suffering would be reduced if not eliminated.

    Connect with others on a SOUL basis based on similar world views and outlooks on life instead of automatically assuming (often wrongly) there’s some kind of “shared kinship”/bond based on “race”/ethnicity, background and history. These days there simply isn’t. And judging by Halima’s latest must read essay, a lot of BW were sold a bill of goods back in the day as well.

  3. tertiaryanna says:

    Definitely not the surviving White segregationists.

    QFT. I used to lurk on their websites, and unlike the BM separatists Halima mentioned, the WM segregationist/separatist reinforce their views with their actions. If they’re that conscious about their racism, they’re not even trying to be with a BW, not for romance, not for sex, just not. at. all.

    If a guy’s that racist, then he would support the W supremacist view that WW are better. So why would he look for a BW: we’re in the minority compared to WW, and why work that hard for a woman you think compromises your values on race relations? It just doesn’t make sense.

    So if there’s a WM who is interested (and he’s a good, high-quality guy), then it doesn’t make sense to reject him off the bat, just because of the ethnicity.

  4. Muse says:

    Eye for an eye is a philosophy that I embrace with my entire being. Deranged individuals should suffer swift and severe consequences for certain behavior such as unjustifiable murder, rape, child abuse etc. With that being said, why do so many black people want to focus on the actions of long dead whites when we have demonically possessed individuals roaming freely in many black enclaves? Where is the accountability for the predators who steal the innocence of children, disrespect elders, violate girls before they are women, and inflict urban terrorism on law abiding citizens who are simply trying to live? Where is the outrage when ignorant black men and women support criminal behavior and terrorize people by promoting such ridiculous movements such as “No snitching?” If I see a crime, I’m calling the police and following up to make sure the person was caught. When did our value system go down the toilet? Criminals and urban terrorist aren’t worthy of protection nor do they have loyalty to anyone but themselves.

    The world doesn’t take most African Americans seriously because many of us are a bunch of hypocrites! We are so quick to metaphorically check others (because lets face it, most blacks have NO power or influence to inflict real damage to someone who offends us) for their wrongdoing but turn a blind eye to the mess within our own culture/communities. Where is the outrage when high profile Black male entertainers and celebrities make money off the degradation of Black women? We have individual like child predator R. Kelly still making music and earning a nice living even after he is on tape urinating on an underage girl. After he was acquitted, I had officially quit black people in Chicago. Where was the boycott? Why are these individual still allowed to make an income from humiliating Black women? Most importantly why are Black women still supporting them?

    Have black women lost their mind because that’s the only way I can explain some of our behavior. We finance and continue to support our abusers ever after they’ve pissed, raped, beaten, and left us for dead mentally, physically, and spiritually. Seriously, we need to take a page out of the Jewish “Don’t Screw with Us” handbook. Jewish people do not allow ANYONE to disrespect members of their tribe or their culture. Show me an idiot who disrespected a Jewish person publicly and I’ll show you someone whose career is over and has been blackballed from his or her industry. Black women (because I don’t have much hope for black men doing this) need to start hitting people where it hurts when we are insulted, which is in the pockets. Stop supporting nonsense or causes that destroy our image. For example Steven Harvey has sold millions of copies of his garbage relationship advice book. 90% of the consumers of his book were black women. Now he is rich and his career has reached new heights because he basically fed a bunch of gullible black women toxic kool-aid and told them to settle. OH yeah ladies, if you wait 90 days to give up the “cookie” you “may” win the respect of your man and a long lasting relationship LMAO. I’m thinking about peeing in a cup and selling it as liquid gold.

    How sick and tired do we to be to stop all the craziness? We don’t even have to do much. Just stop watching/supporting television, blogs, magazines, book, individuals, and companies who degrade your imagine. Most importantly get away from people and situations that don’t serve your best interest in mind. Black women really do need to empower ourselves by making critical lifestyle changes.

    I’ve had to check myself as well. I’m a passionate individual with a strong voice and sometimes I do have the tendency to speak up and take on individuals who I believe are spreading poison to black women. However I learned that taking on these individuals is a waste of my brainpower that could be used for something better. I’m learning but I’m grateful that overall I don’t have to deal with the craziness I’ve been reading about. AS my mom puts it, I’m not in survival mode. A lot of black women are living like animals and they need to make significant changes in their lives so they can transition into thriving.

    My apologies for the long post but thank you for Khadija for your voice and being an advocate for black women. Also thank you for writing the book. I received my copy yesterday and I’m already half way done. I pray that you receive the financial awards from your efforts as well. (Money isn’t the root of evil, but irresponsible people are LOL). I will definitely write a review on Amazon when I’m done.

  5. Muse says:

    Tertiaryanna said:. I used to lurk on their websites, and unlike the BM separatists Halima mentioned, the WM segregationist/separatist reinforce their views with their actions. If they’re that conscious about their racism, they’re not even trying to be with a BW, not for romance, not for sex, just not. at. all.

    Tertiaryanna,

    I’ve actually lurked on storefront which is a white separatist/supremacist website for my own amusement (what can I say crazy white folks entertain me). Despite the fact that most of their members are ignorant beyond belief, at least their ideology matches their personal life. The men on those boards do everything within their ability to empower and uplift white women. They believe that protecting and providing for white women will ensure the survival of their race. IN a weird twisted ironic way, I respect an individual who is authentic in their believes and in lifestyle even if their philosophy conflicts with mine. In fact they bash white men who date outside of their race because they believe it takes away resources from white women! If most black men actually had that mentality, it would be easier to respect them and take their black nationalist views seriously. Instead I snicker when I hear a negro male speak about black empowerment and uplifting black families but has a non-black wife. That’s funny as hell to me actually (and I’m not being sarcastic because at the end of the day I could careless who folks date). I want to tap these males on the shoulder and tell them “excuse me sirs, you look stupid as hell. Just shut up and live your life.”

  6. Oshun,

    MOST of the episodes that BW run out as attack dogs to fight over revolved around what are actually BM’s PERSONAL gripes. A perfect example of this is the Prof. Henry Louis Gates episode that some (foolish) BW are still screaming about. This was discussed at length during this conversation from the previous blog.
    ______________________________________

    Felicia,

    Thank you for your kind words about the post and ongoing support; I truly appreciate it.
    _______________________________________

    TA,

    The things that AA women are indiscriminately doing make no sense; the behavior doesn’t even follow any internal logic.
    _______________________________________

    Muse,

    Thank you for your kind words and ongoing support; I truly appreciate it.

    No need to apologize for the long post. Muse, my sister, you said ALL of the things I had to avoid saying in this essay in order to stay focused on my main point.

    You PERFECTLY summed up my feelings about this topic when you said, “With that being said, why do so many black people want to focus on the actions of long dead whites when we have demonically possessed individuals roaming freely in many black enclaves?”

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  7. NEECY says:

    Great post Khadija!

    I was also reading the comments on that particular blog and one woman just didn’t get it. On one hand she complained that all the BM in her environment were with NON BW. Next, she talks about how not all BW want to sever ties with the Black community and wants to work on “healing” Black relationships. Then she talks about how White men “view” BW (of course the same ole “they only want us for sex”). Then in the same breathe turns around and says(after she’s basically shown contempt for WM based on what they did in the 1800’s) “well no WM looks at me or tries to date me”. SERIOUSLY??? I wonder why!

    What these BW need to realize is this: WM are not in the same position that BW are. They don’t REAAAALY need or have to date a BW if they want a mate. So it doesn’t affect them one way or another if a bunch of BW want to walk around holding grudges against them. YET, as you pointed out, it only ends up hurting BLACK WOMEN, when BW are adamant about trying to “prove their race loyalty” by putting down WM.

    These same types of BW will give BM a pass for the same things they reject WM as potential partners for. Every BM they know could be one that either:
    (1) doesn’t date BW at all
    (2) shows only sexual interest in BW
    (3) has disrespected or abused BW in some way
    (4) has participated in exploiting BW
    (5) Has said hurtful or nasty things about BW or how BW look or how BW do not measure up to other non BW

    And they will still say as a collective “there are still some good Bm out there”. Ironically, they will use those same reasons to reject all WM or say that all WM just want BW for sex or disrespect BW or don’t appreciate BW. These types of BW get more upset at WM for preferring their own women, than they do at Bm for rejecting their own women. HOW ABSURD IS THAT!

    Also, I believe a lot of BW who do hold grudges against WM have misdirected anger. They see WM putting WW on a pedestal and are bothered by the fact BM do not and have never done the same for BW. Instead of holding BM accountable for their actions or lack thereof, its a lot easier to take it out on WM for doing to their women what many BW wish BM would do for them. So they call themselves hating WM while steadily giving BM a pass. Who is that hurting?? NO ONE BUT BLACK WOMEN.

    These race loyal BW are a dying breed. They are not smart nor savvy when it comes to a lot of things. one being logic and the other being common sense. If you make yourself EXCLUSIVLEY available to a group of men who are not making themselves exclusively available to you, then doesn’t LOGIC say that supply and demand is waaay off and not working in your favor??? If these race loyal BM only BW were REAAAALLY smart, they’d understand that when a man has to COMPETE for a woman’s affections, they know they need to come with their ‘A’ game. Wouldn’t common sense tell these BM only BW, that if they truly wanted BM to step up their game, that sitting around letting them know you are available to them and ONLY them gives them NO INCENTIVE whatsoever to bring something to the table??? Why should they??? Its not like they have to compete with better men for their affections.

    That’s why when these race loyal BW say ‘I got a good BM” or “there’s a lot of good BM out there” I literally take it with a grain of salt b/c these days in the black community a “good BM” simply is one with half his teeth, and a functioning you know what! LOL.

    Its simple supply and demand if you want to break it down to the ridiculous. I don’t understand why they don’t GET that.

  8. Karen says:

    Khadija,

    EXCELLENT essay. Indiscriminate grudges are only poison to the person that carries them.

    Having been exposed to many cultures where I have seen men do what men are supposed to do. I find it fascinating the collective inaction of BM to protect their communities and children. Where are the “armed local neighborhood watches and local militias” to ensure that children can go to and from school unharmed or terrorized. Where are these same men to ensure that their wives, daughters, sisters, aunts, mothers and grandmothers can go on their daily business without being taunted, abused or worse? The answer is that BM as a collective (exceptions are not the rule) continue to prove through inaction that they are only concerned about themselves. Real men (whether White supremacists or in the far reaches of the world) will do EVERYTHING to PROTECT THEIR women and children. These men are respected because they have EARNED that respect.

    With this in mind, Black Women NEED TO STOP doing a man’s job and stop carrying indiscriminate grudges which are all too often for BM’s personal issues. In the case of Skip Gates, if his own wife was not willing to speak for him, then Black women need to sit down. It is not our fight. We need to stop falling for the okey-doke.

    Bottom line, it is way past time to eliminate that negative non-value adding behaviour and move forward.

  9. mochachoc says:

    Wow! Gosh! You’ve put flesh on my bones. I’m with you on this completely.

    It is often difficult for Black women to realise they are the only one’s expected to carry the torch of anger. It is seen as a betrayal when we choose to love a White man, yet Black men suffer no such judgement when they choose White partners. I see now that it is a deceitful device used to keep us in our place. And effective it has been. When I ask girlfriends why they wouldn’t consider a White man as a potential mate I often get very vague answers. They nearly always refer to the discomfort they imagine they would feel when out with that person. One girlfriend said she simply wouldn’t be able to cope with the feeling that her White partner could not protect her against Black men.

    It is interesting that we focus on dead people to justify our ill feeling toward modern White men. Yet when we have the opportunity to accurately mete out retribution we opt for the softly softly approach. I think it was Jallilmaster who pointed out Desmond Tutu’s truth and reconciliation policy agenda as completely wrong.

    Regarding justice for slavery, I would say that what I would like to hear is acknowledgment of the financial contribution the slave trade made to the wealth of this country (UK). Most British White’s walk around completely oblivious of this fact.

    Thank you for this post, you really have given me something to digest.

  10. Neecy,

    Reading that particular commenter’s comments over at Halima’s blog is what prompted this blog post. I 100% co-sign your analysis of her comments.

    Another angle with this is the hypocrisy of these women’s “fight” against the particular WM that BM “sic” them on. Responding only to the particular WM that BM have a personal gripe about is NOT the same thing as fighting anti-Black racism across the board.

    If these women were fighting anti-Black racism across the board, then they’d ALSO direct their “fire” against anti-Black racists like: Ne-Yo (“all the good-looking kids are light-skinned”), Yung Berg (“I don’t date dark butts”), Tigger Woods (see his racist, anti-Black “jokes” later in this comment), and so on. Seriously fighting anti-Black racists across the board would require fighting many anti-Black racist BM and many BM’s anti-Black racist, half-other “biracial” creations (like Tigger Woods).

    About Tigger Woods:

    A while back, I came across a blog that referenced the racist, anti-Black “jokes” that Tigger Woods (yes, I deliberately typed it that way–for several reasons) told in the presence of a reporter in 1997.

    Here are a couple of Tigger’s comments:

    “What I can’t figure out,” Tiger Woods asks Vincent, the limo driver, “is why so may good-looking women hang around baseball and basketball. Is it because, you know, people always say that, like, black guys have big d*cks?”

    And:

    “He puts the tips of his expensive shoes together, and he rubs them up and down against each other. ‘What’s this?’ he asks the women, who do not know the answer. ‘It’s a black guy taking off his condom,’ Tiger explains.”

    See the December 7, 2009 entry at the Freedom Rider blog. http://freedomrider.blogspot.com/2009/12/what-i-cant-figure-out-tiger-woods-asks.html

    This says VOLUMES about how Tigger’s Black father and “hasn’t-said-a-peep-in-public-to- defend-her-own-son” Asian mother raised him to think about Black men and Black people.
    _______________________________

    Karen,

    You said, “Having been exposed to many cultures where I have seen men do what men are supposed to do. I find it fascinating the collective inaction of BM to protect their communities and children.

    Where are the “armed local neighborhood watches and local militias” to ensure that children can go to and from school unharmed or terrorized. Where are these same men to ensure that their wives, daughters, sisters, aunts, mothers and grandmothers can go on their daily business without being taunted, abused or worse?

    The answer is that BM as a collective (exceptions are not the rule) continue to prove through inaction that they are only concerned about themselves. Real men (whether White supremacists or in the far reaches of the world) will do EVERYTHING to PROTECT THEIR women and children. These men are respected because they have EARNED that respect.”

    Exactly! There are predatory men all over the world, but what’s unique about the “Black world” is the TOTAL lack of a countervailing set of male protectors. Including the total absence of flawed male protectors who, even though they are basically predatory, STILL protect and provide for the women and children within their particular fiefdoms.

    I had read the news story about the need for the “women-only” aid vouchers in Haiti (BM predators have been stealing all the food aid, while women and children starve). I figured that something like this was happening.

    In other places like Afghanistan and so on, there are male counterweights to the male thieves. Such as imams, sheiks, and the tribal warlords who also steal the food aid—but these other types of men (while also stealing/seizing the food aid for themselves) typically make sure that the women and children within their fiefdoms eat!

    Not BM . . . they won’t even ensure that their own mothers, sisters, and daughters are relatively safe. I’m still amazed that Ar-ruh Kelly has been able to publicly rack up such a HIGH number of underage BF sexual molestation victims without a single male from any of these girls’ families taking revenge or at least suing him. And this includes Aaliyah’s father—who could have prevented the long line of future R.Kelly victims if he had taken action against that creature. {shaking my head}
    ______________________________________

    Mochachoc,

    I don’t believe that these BW’s reactions are about wanting justice for our ancestors (for the reasons I stated in the essay, and also for what you pointed out in your comment—“It is interesting that we focus on dead people to justify our ill feeling toward modern White men. Yet when we have the opportunity to accurately mete out retribution we opt for the softly softly approach.”

    No, this is about currying favor with BM (who, judging from their inaction, are NOT interested in justice for our ancestors). Currying favor with them by attacking the particular WM competitors that BM can’t compete with on their own.

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

    • NEECY says:

      Funny Khadija I remember reading that article about Tiger when his scandal broke. All I could do is just shake my head at his ignorance and racist jokes.

  11. Felicia says:

    THANK YOU NEECY. You’ve restated succinctly and clearly what countless numbers of us have been saying ALL ALONG.

    This COMMON SENSE information, (the basics of supply and demand and how this principal relates to relationships) known the WORLD over – which shouldn’t even have to be spelt out to an adult – CAN’T BE STATED ENOUGH.

    Women (and black women in particular) who refuse to use their brains will continue to suffer.

    Those BW who have retained their ability to think need to leave the Titanic NOW.

    • NEECY says:

      Felicia stated:
      Those BW who have retained their ability to think need to leave the Titanic NOW.

      ME:
      ITA. like another blog stated, some sistas will just have to be left behind. We cannot simply cotninue to try and drag along some sistas who just don’t get the OBVIOUS. BW need to realize that time has passed for the simple talk and its about do or die now – for our own safety, health, evolution and survival.

  12. Magenta says:

    Neecy,

    This:

    And they will still say as a collective “there are still some good Bm out there”. Ironically, they will use those same reasons to reject all WM or say that all WM just want BW for sex or disrespect BW or don’t appreciate BW. These types of BW get more upset at WM for preferring their own women, than they do at Bm for rejecting their own women. HOW ABSURD IS THAT!

    And This:

    Also, I believe a lot of BW who do hold grudges against WM have misdirected anger. They see WM putting WW on a pedestal and are bothered by the fact BM do not and have never done the same for BW. Instead of holding BM accountable for their actions or lack thereof, its a lot easier to take it out on WM for doing to their women what many BW wish BM would do for them. So they call themselves hating WM while steadily giving BM a pass. Who is that hurting?? NO ONE BUT BLACK WOMEN.

    Whew! Reading this stings but it is the absolute truth! It has been discussed on many BWE blogs that the true motivation for this behavior is a need to “prove their loyalty” to BM, hoping they will appreciate or reciprocate. It is also the result of misdirected anger and resentment.

    I must admit, I constantly have to kill urges to be a race-woman or fight some race war. I discussed with Khadija on her previous blog how I was such a staunch defender or Harold Ford and was so angry over how he was being treated by “de evil racist whites” during his TN Senate campaign. Like Khadija said, this was a personal grievance, but that did not stop myself and many others from being incensed over the “injustice”. Keep in mind this man is married to a white woman and publicly defended the Confederate flag even used one in his campaign ad!!!!! Boy did I feel like a fool.

    I still feel the occasional urge to defend DBRBM like Tiger Woods because of the media’s obsession with his sex scandal. For some reason I was angry at how hypocritical white people were being in their criticism of him. I know this is insane, but I still have a long way to do in my deprogramming, LOL!

    I also used to have some issue with how WM uplifted the blond, blue eyed ideal. Well first of all that is not true, but second of all it it was so what? Since blond hair/blue eyes represent “ultimate” whiteness, wouldn’t it make sense that (some) WM would idealize that? Was I just upset that BM rejected their cultural archetype (dark skin, tightly coiled hair, etc.) while WM did not? Was I engaging in some weird kind of transference?

    Sorry if I am veering offtopic but I just wanted to provide a little insight into why this habit is so hard to break. Many BW see whites are the enemy and BM as our “brothas”. Clearly that is not the case anymore. Now when I have an urge, I stop and ask myself: is this a legit case of racism, or more of a personal problem? is this person I am running to defend of any value to black ppl, and BW in particular? Have I given a BM a “pass” for engaging in this exact same behavior that I am so angry at whites about?

    Asking myself those questions has helped considerably in reducing my knee-jerk tendencies LOL.

    • NEECY says:

      Magenta,

      Its been hard for a lot of BW to break that tie. We are human and if we are born and raised into a community that teaches its women and girls to fight for the BM’s battles, that is what you fall in line and do. But then there comes a time to wake up and look at the obvious – especially when its hurting YOU and none of that fighting, protection and support is being shifted back your way.

      Sometimes i ask myself if BW are gluttons for punishment. Why can’t we see that reciprocity is not a right but a privilege that is extended to those who demand it. Therefore, if you are not receiving it, you move on and stop giving so much of yourself to those who aren’t the least bit interested reciprocating.

      I know its a really hard and hurtful jagged pill to swallow for a lot of BW that we are simply not protected and placed on a pedestal by our men like all other races of women are. And I believe once BW can be completely honest about WHY this is, we will no longer harbor ill feelings towards Non Black men who do love their women. Also, it will be a lot easier for us to let go and move on. And it is easy to get mad at a White man for loving what’s in his image (especially when its shoved down our throats). But WM love them some them (lol). And as a result, that is extended to the women who bare their image. On the opposite of the spectrum, if the male does not even love his image, how can he extend any love to the women that bare it? At some point we BW have to accept it for what it is, accept we cannot change a mans views on himself, his race or women. We just have to let it go and do us.

  13. Truth p. says:

    Thank You Khadija!I am so glad you said this geesh!black men talkstuff about white men in private.For the most part you do NOT hear them publicly and very loudly proclaiming their hatred and dislike for white men.In fact I think many of them envy white men.Most of them are befriending white men out in the open and kissing up to them.while most black women who claim to have something against white men do so publicly even to their own hurt.It makes no sense.I shared a story with a black woman who insisted she had hatred towards white men because they were racist and she had a bad experience with one. I worked for mostly white male bosses they treated me very very good.Gave me raises all kinds of gifts at holiday
    and PREFERENTIAL treatment all because of my hardwork.This black woman talked to me like I should have been ashamed that my white male bosses treated me better than other workers.She treated me as if I had done something wrong because I had favor with my BOSSES???SMH

  14. Truth p. says:

    Khadija you said No, this is about currying favor with BM (who, judging from their inaction, are NOT interested in justice for our ancestors). Currying favor with them by attacking the particular WM competitors that BM can’t compete with on their own.

    YES! bingo! ding ding ding!You are dead on.I know you know this but really you are.

    Khadija I believe that these women believe if they continue to hate and show disdain for white men that they’ll somehow win the hearts of black men and end up married with children in a nice home where they are protected and provided for.I believe they use their support as a barganing tool with black men.But they throw their support at black men and never get a return on the investment.I was on another site where bm were bashing black women I was’nt there long.But not before I read the comment of a black woman who was seemingly begging black men on that site,that i don’t believe she even knows, who had literally wished DEATH on black women and children(everybody on the site says he really IS a black man,)to not be the way they are and to understand that black men still had the love and support of black women.It was pathetic.I wanted to write in and let everybody know that that woman doesn’t speak for me.But I didn’t I just left the site.I WONT be going back there.The bible says God loves those that love him and it tells us to be like God SOOOO I love them that love me *shoulder shrug*

  15. A helpful reader sent me the following link. It appears that Tigger’s Asian mother did supposedly speak out about her Cablanasian son—to throw him under the bus!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1237285/Tiger-Woods-mother-angry-disappointed-sons-infidelity.html

    Oh well.

  16. Chris M. says:

    Wow. Seriously, wow. It’s like you articulated all the thoughts that I never knew I had on this particular subject!

    I constantly encounter BM who think they have the right to throw snide comments my way about my white boyfriend and how I could do better. Oh, really? You mean I could be so lucky as to land a relationship with a shifty bigot who shouts out unsolicited racist comments to strangers? Fantastic! Count me in!

    I never heard a peep when my non-black partners were Indian, Thai or Hispanic, but lord forbid I leave the house with a WM. I never thought of it as anything more than plain old racism and jealousy, but you’re all 100% right – it’s like BM are trying to shame BW into upholding some warped standard of racial loyalty to which they themselves don’t have to adhere.

    Brilliant post, and brilliant comments. If all BW had such good heads on their shoulders, we’d be in much better shape.

    And thank you so much for the book! I can’t wait to have a chance to sit down with.

  17. Tee says:

    Khadija:

    Just bought the book. Looking forward to reading it. Thank’s for everything.

  18. Magenta,

    You said, “I must admit, I constantly have to kill urges to be a race-woman or fight some race war. I discussed with Khadija on her previous blog how I was such a staunch defender or Harold Ford and was so angry over how he was being treated by “de evil racist whites” during his TN Senate campaign. Like Khadija said, this was a personal grievance, but that did not stop myself and many others from being incensed over the “injustice”. Keep in mind this man is married to a white woman and publicly defended the Confederate flag even used one in his campaign ad!!!!! Boy did I feel like a fool.

    I still feel the occasional urge to defend DBRBM like Tiger Woods because of the media’s obsession with his sex scandal. For some reason I was angry at how hypocritical white people were being in their criticism of him. I know this is insane, but I still have a long way to do in my deprogramming, LOL!”

    Magenta, believe me, I do understand. Old programming dies hard! LOL! It took time for me to train myself NOT to rush to Min. Farrakhan’s (and other sincere BM Black Nationalists’) defense. As much as I respect the good works that the NOI has done in Black residential areas under his leadership, there’s STILL the matter of:

    1-His vicious condemnation of Anita Hill, in support of Clarence Thomas. Min. Farrakhan was one of the many deluded Black folks who assured the rest of us that we shouldn’t be worried that Thomas was exactly what he appeared to be from his record–an anti-Black puppet. At the time, the Minister naively assumed and assured us that Thomas was just “tricking racist Whites” into believing that he would serve their agenda. Well, we’ve seen what Thomas has done since he was appointed to join the Supremes.

    2-His vicious condemnation of the rape victim in Mike Tyson’s rape case (the one where he was convicted—from what I recall from that era, Tyson had a track record of groping and attacking women, it’s just that he paid off and settled out of court with the prior victims of his attentions).

    So, I had to remind myself of the Minister’s ENTIRE account when it comes to BW’s interests—it’s not one that’s deserving of my support.

    In terms of Harold Ford, his many trespasses against AAs are too numerous to recount here. I’ve been having problems copying the link, but if you google the phrase “Freedom Rider: Harold Ford, Enemy of Black America,” you’ll see an efficient summary of his madness as of 2007.

    Out of Harold Ford’s many, many FOUL actions, what offended me most was his decision to lie and falsely claim that his grandmother was White in order to try to win votes from White racists in Tennessee. Somebody who’s LOW enough to lie on their own flesh and blood to try to placate some Confederate racists is beyond comprehension to me.
    __________________________________

    TruthP.

    Thank you for your kind words and ongoing support; I truly appreciate it!

    Basically, the woman you described is cutting her own wrists at work, and she wants you to cut yours too. How crazy is that?!

    You said, “Khadija I believe that these women believe if they continue to hate and show disdain for white men that they’ll somehow win the hearts of black men and end up married with children in a nice home where they are protected and provided for.I believe they use their support as a barganing tool with black men. But they throw their support at black men and never get a return on the investment.”

    And they won’t get a return on their investment. The market forces that Neecy described above apply to those situations. Since these deluded women are giving their support for free, there’s no need for the BM they’re throwing their support at to do anything—they’re already getting support for free. It’s all crazy.
    _____________________________________

    Ms. Chris!

    {excited waving} I’m so happy you stopped by! Thank you for your kind words and support; I truly appreciate it. And I can’t possibly thank you enough for how you’ve helped me with this project. THANK YOU!

    You said, “I constantly encounter BM who think they have the right to throw snide comments my way about my white boyfriend and how I could do better. Oh, really? You mean I could be so lucky as to land a relationship with a shifty bigot who shouts out unsolicited racist comments to strangers? Fantastic! Count me in!

    I never heard a peep when my non-black partners were Indian, Thai or Hispanic, but lord forbid I leave the house with a WM. I never thought of it as anything more than plain old racism and jealousy, but you’re all 100% right – it’s like BM are trying to shame BW into upholding some warped standard of racial loyalty to which they themselves don’t have to adhere.”

    Exactly. As other bloggers have pointed out, BW are the ONLY resource that BM control. Full stop. Period.

    If more BW start feeling free to do whatever works for us, without putting the notion of “racial loyalty” into the equation—

    —just like BM are free to do whatever works for them, without being expected to be “racially loyal”—

    —then BM will have absolutely NOTHING and NO RESOURCES whatsoever under their control. It’s not like BM are building institutions (businesses, schools, etc.) like other men are doing for their collectives in this country. Since BM have not and are not building anything, BW are the ONLY safety net they have.

    When BM see you with nonwhite men, they can still have the comforting assumption that you’re probably concerned about being “loyal” to them on some level (translation: probably feel obligated to function as their safety net on some level—like the “guard dog” behaviors that Magenta described in terms of feeling compelled to fight for BM’s interests).

    When BM see you with a White man, that’s a clear signal that you probably don’t feel that sort of obligation to unrelated, unknown BM who aren’t contributing anything of value to your life.

    That thought of probably NOT being automatically able to count on you (the way they can count on so many random BW to rush to their rescue in a pinch) is deeply scary to BM. BM know that “Becky, Lupe, JLo, and Mei Ling” are NOT going to run to their rescue—not even when they’re married to these women.

    [See the examples of Prof. Henry Gates’ silent White wife, Van Jones’ silent White wife, Wesley Snipes’ silent Asian wife/ex-wife, and other such nonblack wives remaining silent while their Black husbands were under attack. Not to mention Tigger Woods’ nonblack mother apparently throwing him under the bus when she did open her mouth.]

    All of the above is why so many BM are so frightened to see BW like yourself living as FREE AGENTS. Meaning free to do what works for you without feeling any obligation to factor them into the equation.

    Finally, I won’t forget Shontae Blanche. The idea of a crowd of grown, African-American women fighting to the death over the affections of a Negro criminal is beyond comprehension.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2007/nov/07/local/me-runover7

    While the Internet Ike Turners and Baby Ikettes are angrily denying the need for BW to expand their marriage horizons, there are BW literally dying over a perceived shortage of potential mates. These women believe that there is a “man shortage” because the only men they are considering are Black men. There are plenty of loving and lovable men other than the dwindling number of eligible AA men.

    BW have the option to be FREE of the above sort of madness. All any of us need to do is exercise the option to be free, and go on with our lives.
    _________________________________

    Tee,

    Thank you for your ongoing support; I truly appreciate it!

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  19. NijaG says:

    A helpful reader sent me the following link. It appears that Tigger’s Asian mother did supposedly speak out about her Cablanasian son—to throw him under the bus!
    *****************************************************************

    Hmmm…

    I think we have to look at this. Is it really throwing him under the bus? I actually admire her (if the story is true) for publicly stating that she believes her son’s actions were wrong and harmful to his wife and family.

    I say this, because I’ve seen in many cultures (my own included) where males are considered more important than females. The men can get away with all sorts of morally wrong or improper behavior and in the family especially, everyone is turning a blind eye. Even in a situation like TW’s while they may give lip-service to his wrong doings they’ll still try to also throw the woman under the bus as well and somehow make her responsible for his actions on some level.

    I’ll also say that out of all groups I know (race/ethnic) western white men don’t get as much leeway as men from other races/ethnicity when it comes to their behavior towards their families. Just my personal opinion and general observation.

  20. NijaG,

    You said, “Hmmm…

    I think we have to look at this. Is it really throwing him under the bus? I actually admire her (if the story is true) for publicly stating that she believes her son’s actions were wrong and harmful to his wife and family.

    I say this, because I’ve seen in many cultures (my own included) where males are considered more important than females. The men can get away with all sorts of morally wrong or improper behavior and in the family especially, everyone is turning a blind eye. Even in a situation like TW’s while they may give lip-service to his wrong doings they’ll still try to also throw the woman under the bus as well and somehow make her responsible for his actions on some level.”

    In my opinion, YES, this was Tigger’s mother throwing him under the bus.

    I believe when looking at cross-cultural situations, it’s important to separate out our own (legitimate) grievances with our own culture’s norms, and look at the behavior relative to what’s expected within its own norms.

    There are multiple nuances with Tigger’s case:

    1-He’s a BM (despite his Cablanasian fantasy) who messed over a WW. White Americans don’t and won’t forgive or forget that. Remember OJ.

    2-Men police the behavior of other men. WM police BM who act inappropriately with WW—WM won’t tolerate that. This (plus some other motives like perhaps professional jealousy) is why Tigger’s WM golfing peers have made public statements criticizing him; and why Tigger has lost some contracts.

    [Contrast this with the reverse situation of BM–instead of policing men who harm BW–BM comedians join in with a WM racist (Don Imus) in publicly demeaning BW.]

    3-The general Western/American-subsection of Western expectation is that in such circumstances, close relatives like parents will make supportive statements if they say anything to the press. “Supportive” does NOT equal cheerleading bad behavior.

    Instead, it means something like this: “I was deeply saddened to hear the recent news. I’m praying for my son Tigger and his family, and I ask you to join the rest of our family in praying for him, his wife, and my grandchildren. Thank you.”

    As amused as I am by the protracted slapdown that Tigger is receiving, what his mother did was ALL WRONG relative to the norms here. And her type of statement (the open, public condemnation of saying “I’m angry and disappointed with my child”) is something that most Western mothers only reluctantly say to the press after their children are convicted of crimes.

    I can relate to you being similarly satisfied to see Tigger’s mother do this, given how men get away with all sorts of things in your culture (and in AA culture also). I’m saying consider all of the potential underlying things involved in Tigger’s mother’s choice to say that:

    1-I wonder if she would have said that if her son was all-Asian.

    2-I wonder if she would have said that if her son was half-White instead of half-Black.

    3-I wonder if she would have said that if the wife her son cheated on had been Black.

    In short, I wonder if her statement reflects a sincere sense of righteousness, or simply her ALSO devaluing Tigger because of her own anti-Black racism. Just because somebody sleeps with Black folks or has part-Black kids does not mean that they have any regard for Black people. Remember, this is the same woman who raised a part-Black man who tells anti-Black RACIST jokes.

    [Not to mention that the term “biracial” was invented to accomodate nonblack women—mostly WW—with Black children who didn’t want their children to be identified as Black.]

    Let me be clear, I don’t care about Tigger. I’m simply wondering if his mother’s statment reflects her assigning Tigger a lower value (in terms of being protective of him) because he’s Black.

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  21. mochachoc says:

    Neecy said

    “Also, I believe a lot of BW who do hold grudges against WM have misdirected anger. They see WM putting WW on a pedestal and are bothered by the fact BM do not and have never done the same for BW. Instead of holding BM accountable for their actions or lack thereof, its a lot easier to take it out on WM for doing to their women what many BW wish BM would do for them. So they call themselves hating WM while steadily giving BM a pass. Who is that hurting?? NO ONE BUT BLACK WOMEN.”

    This is so true. I’ve been reading this post and comments again. With each new reading I get something new to chew on. Yes, there is a lot of pain and feeling of let down disguised. Overnight I’ve come across two quotes by White men:

    “I am a man and I have a wife and children and I will do my best to provide a good home for them” (An Englishman who built his home/castle with his own hands)

    and:

    “I’ll be honest, my biggest obsession in life right now is not better shoes, more suits or a bigger career but, to simply be a more graceful man for my graceful woman” (The Sartorialist.blogspot.com)

    When I consider what Haitian women are going through right now it makes me sick. Black men raping and pillaging rather than protecting. It takes courage to face the truth because to do so would mean giving up the deceit you have invested in. Black men don’t cherish us. This is the truth. Black men will not do anything to provide for and protect us. This is the truth. Black men don’t consider it their ‘biggest obsession’ to be a more ‘graceful man’ for us. This is the truth. So we hide behind a palatable lie that the cause of our pain is the modern White man.

    It takes courage to see the transference.

    • NEECY says:

      MOCACHOC SAID:
      It takes courage to face the truth because to do so would mean giving up the deceit you have invested in. Black men don’t cherish us. This is the truth. Black men will not do anything to provide for and protect us. This is the truth. Black men don’t consider it their ‘biggest obsession’ to be a more ‘graceful man’ for us. This is the truth. So we hide behind a palatable lie that the cause of our pain is the modern White man.

      I SAY:
      That is exactly what I just responded to – to magenta. That BW don’t really want to accept the reason why WM are more willing to love and protect their women collectively than BM are to do for BW. And it boils down to one thing – LOVE FOR ONESELF and HIS IMAGE. WM love being White and thus love their image. We can argue that their love for Whiteness lies in power and influence the White race has over the world. That is neither here nor there at this point, because it doesn’t matter. the point is, BM do not like themselves or love themselves. everyone knows this including their race loyal BW. This is evidenced in the amount of killings done by the day to one another and their lack of protection and support of their offspring and women. That’s why our communities are in shambles. If you don’t value yourself, you don’t value the things or people that remind you of who you are. THUS, we can conclude, if a male hates himself and his image, he will also hate those who resemble it as well. And for the male who do loves himself, his race and image, he will extend that same love to those who bare it.

      BW can continue to split hairs on this and argue the pointless. but at the end of the day until we fully accept and acknowledge this, we will forever be victims of the Black male and Black community and even ourselves. When we fully accept it, we can then realize that its OKAY and probably MOST LOGICAL for BW who love themselves to extend that to other BW who also love themselves. See how that works. We don’t have the luxury of have a collective male group to do this for us, therefore, we have to do what we have to do. And that is to uplift one another and move the hell on. because if we as BW love our image and have tried unsuccessfully to extend that to a group of men who have yet to reciprocate, then MAYBE JUST MAYBE its time for us to extend it to one another. Because we cannot count on ANYONE ELSE to do it on a collective level.

      BW’s survival will ultimately lie in whether or not we can find commonality with other LIKE MINDED sistas and extend all of our self pride as women into each other. Encourage, motivate and teach each other. AND accept that it will not be a collective group of ANYONE willing to do this for us, BUT there will be INDIVIDUAL NOn BM who can extend love to us on a personal individual level. That is all we can do at this point.

      The sistas who complain about WM being racist and then turn around and get upset b/c the collective of WM are not putting BW on a pedestal (because they are too busy loving themselves and their women and offspring) need to get off that bus real quick b/c that is headed to the nearest cliff. BW need to take Non Black men as INDIVIDUALS. Maybe WW or Asian women have the luxury of excluding certain groups of men from their intimate lives. But We BW don’t have the luxury of grouping men and saying “we aren’t going to date that group and only stick with this group”.

      • Neecy,

        You said, “BW can continue to split hairs on this and argue the pointless. but at the end of the day until we fully accept and acknowledge this, we will forever be victims of the Black male and Black community and even ourselves. When we fully accept it, we can then realize that its OKAY and probably MOST LOGICAL for BW who love themselves to extend that to other BW who also love themselves. See how that works. We don’t have the luxury of have a collective male group to do this for us, therefore, we have to do what we have to do. And that is to uplift one another and move the hell on.”

        YES! YES! YES!

        You said, “BW’s survival will ultimately lie in whether or not we can find commonality with other LIKE MINDED sistas and extend all of our self pride as women into each other. Encourage, motivate and teach each other. AND accept that it will not be a collective group of ANYONE willing to do this for us, BUT there will be INDIVIDUAL NOn BM who can extend love to us on a personal individual level. That is all we can do at this point.”

        YES! YES! YES!

        You said, “The sistas who complain about WM being racist and then turn around and get upset b/c the collective of WM are not putting BW on a pedestal (because they are too busy loving themselves and their women and offspring) need to get off that bus real quick b/c that is headed to the nearest cliff. BW need to take Non Black men as INDIVIDUALS. Maybe WW or Asian women have the luxury of excluding certain groups of men from their intimate lives. But We BW don’t have the luxury of grouping men and saying “we aren’t going to date that group and only stick with this group”.”

        YES! YES! YES! And this last point of yours sums it all up. BW need to think about our OWN circumstances when making choices.

        ***Note to Readers*** In making this new site the kind of project that’s sustainable for me over the long-run, I’ve had to streamline how I handle certain things. The comments section is one of them. What this means is that I’ll give substantive responses to those folks who enter the conversations early (as I did across the board at the previous blog).

        After each post is a couple of days old, I’ll continue to publish new comments. (That meet the commenting guidelines as set forth at the previous blog—those who are unfamiliar can read the comment “box” at the previous blog.) But I generally won’t continue responding to new comments after the post is more than a few days old.

    • ak says:

      Yes yes YES Neecy I wish more black women from here in the Uk to over in the USA would see more of what your saying about the evil ‘sweet lies’ of transference when black women think about WM and BM.

  22. YMB says:

    I saw all the photographs of the Pan-Africanist BM with their white wives over at Halima’s blog. SMH.

    Many of these men and other black male activists were/are vociferously anti-white (except in their love lives) but this was not a deterrent for these white women. These BM were actively denigrating and challenging white cultural practices and norms, and were not at all considered acceptable partners by most white people. Yet these women did not let that dissuade them from considering these men as quality mates capable of providing a decent life for them and their offspring. Their first priority was “what is the benefit to ME”, not “what will my white brothers think”.

    Not that I am saying that black women should consider racist white men, but what a contrast that makes with black women who refuse to look at white men because “their ancestors raped and murdered us”!

    On another note, I have noticed how these same black women don’t like to speak ill of the dead, as long as it is a black man. It’s ok to speak ill of say, Strom Thurmand, but no one should say a word about Steve McNair, especially not that he made his own bed and consequently died in it. I remember seeing the posts on Facebook of brainwashed black women acquaintances protesting the media coverage of that case as though relating that he had been involved in multiple affairs was not relevant in the case of someone whose life ended as a direct result of that behavior.

  23. eshowoman says:

    Dear Khadija
    I am responding to you here because you seem more open to black women who have concerns about black women who have concerns abiut dating white men. I have plenty of heart breaking experience with racist white men who were married to black women and made their lives miserable. To say this is not an issue face by black women in interracial is never a problem is disingenuous. If you really want to help black women deal with these issues face all good and bad. Fatima did not publish my experience with my sister and two dear friends who suffered at the hands at racist white men. I do not excuse any man who treats black women badly, white or black!

    • NEECY says:

      Esho,

      I mean no harm. But how does a BW end up MARRYING a racist White man involuntarily?? I am sorry. There is something missing. If your sister and friend vetted these WM properly there is no way in heck they could have ended up marrying a racist. The fact is, there are MANY women (non Black included) who know deep down that the person they are with aint no good, and do nothing about it, but stay in the relationship.

      IMO men are not that smart to try and hide their intentions or who they are. if women open their eyes and ears and really start paying attention early on, they can see if the male they are with is not someone they should continue a relaitonship with.

      I am not trying to judge, but this is so common. Too many BW will try to use an example of themselves or someone they knew as to why BW should avoid WM based on the experiences they have had. However, i find that nowadays many women simply do not vett men properly and see many bad signs before the relationships get off the ground. Yet they IGNORE it and stay in these relationships (for some other benefit) thinking the male will change. When he doesn’t and gets worse then you have scorned women.

      I cannot imagine any woman marrying a racist unless she ignored the obvious tell tale signs before she married them. I almost bet that these WM you friend and sister were with were showing signs of being racists BEFORE the marriage.

      Once again I’m not trying to be mean or harsh, but I cannot take any woman seriously who says she ended up marrying a racist b/c I firmly believe if a woman is truly looking for a quality mate and is doing her part to make sure she has vetted them properly she would never go down the isle with a racist.

      you have to be honest with yourself and ask yourself the same thing. HOW did they end up with racist WM??

  24. Dear Eshowoman,

    Beloved,

    Please take a step back for a moment, take a breath and then return to these conversations. Respectfully, it seems to me that at this moment, your emotions are engaged in a way that makes it difficult for you to “hear” what is actually being said by the other participants. Respectfully, it seems to me that you are hearing people’s statements through the distorting tunnel of ideology. Instead of plain facts.

    There is much that I could say, but I don’t want to write a separate essay here in the comment section for things that have already been addressed. Here, and by other bloggers. Here are my main points.

    1-The other blog host’s name is Halima. My sister, please do her the courtesy of calling her by her name.

    2-You entered that particular conversation at Halima’s blog saying that “The relationships between black men and women will never be healed unless we talk about what how the image of the white woman has effected gender relations between black men and women.”

    Beloved, what has to happen for you to understand that Black men DON’T WANT their relationships with BW to “be healed”?

    If BM have NEVER responded to the calls for “healing the relationship between BM and BW” when these calls came FOR DECADES from old-school Black Nationalist patriarchs, what makes you think they’re going to respond to appeals from BW about this?

    In the late 80s and early 90s, Haki Madhubuti asked his brothers the following question:

    “Why are Black women,by and large, more responsible than we? ….Is life worth living as wards of the state, wards of our women and without the ability to actively determine our own destiny?” Haki Madhubuti, “Black Men: Obsolete, Single, Dangerous? The Afrikan American Family in Transition” pg. 90 (emphasis added).

    Ever since the 1930s, Elijah Muhammad told BM the following:

    “Until we learn to love and protect our woman, we will never be a fit and recognized people on the earth. The white people here among you will never recognize you until you protect your woman.

    The brown man will never recognize you until you protect your woman. The yellow man will never recognize you until you protect your woman. The white man will never recognize you until you protect your woman.

    You and I may go to Harvard, we may go to York of England, or go to Al Azhar in Cairo and get degrees from all of these great seats of learning. But we will never be recognized until we recognize our women.” Elijah Muhammad, “Message to the Blackman,” pgs. 58-59.

    Elijah Muhammad taught and preached this to BM for DECADES. BM did not listen. His own son, Min. Ishmael Muhammad, married a Mexican woman.

    For how many DECADES must BM reject “healing” their relationships with BW for you to let go of that notion?

    3-Beloved, you know in your heart that for every single “WM done some BW wrong” story you can mention, there are THOUSANDS of “BM done BW wrong” stories. Horrible stories. Deadly stories. Stop tripping.

    4-Furthermore, you know in your heart that nobody over at Halima’s blog EVER excused the mistreatment of any BW. From any man. You’re doing the “straw man” argument—you’re arguing against things that the people who disagree with you NEVER said!

    5-Finally, my sister, time is short. BW are in a state of crisis. And this crisis is in its final stages. Now, you can rationalize why you feel the need to remain on the Black- Relationship-Titanic as it continues to sink to the very bottom of the ocean. God respects free will, and so do I. Good luck and God bless.

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

    • NEECY says:

      Khadija said:
      3-Beloved, you know in your heart that for every single “WM done some BW wrong” story you can mention, there are THOUSANDS of “BM done BW wrong” stories. Horrible stories. Deadly stories. Stop tripping.

      I SAY:
      I welcome any BW who doubts that BW are being not only mistreated but abused and murdered at the hands of BM to look at stats on domestic violence against Black women. The majority of Black women are with Black males. The stats on domestic violence against BW (as someone else on another forum put it) “is heartwrenching”. A man who works in the medical field of some sort was arguing against this “strong BW mantra” by saying that if people could see the heartwrenching cases of abuse and domestic violence against BW, they’d be less willing to say BW were “strong”. Now while i didn’t agree with his position on many things, the truth is there are a great number of BW dying and living in extreme abusive relationships with BLACK MEN. And that’s only the ones who REPORT it. Think about how many more BW are not stepping up and reporting thier abuse??

      Yet you have BW who would cut off their right arm to keep another BW from dating out, by using a very small sample of NOn BM who did some BW wrong. And usually its something that a BW could have controlled by simply vetting these NOn BM properly. I still say, no one marries a racist without knowing. racists (even when they think they are hiding it) are so transparent its not even funny.

  25. Dear Eshowoman,

    Beloved,

    Just so you know, here’s why I deleted the comment you just tried to submit, and why I’m not going to publish any further comments from you about this matter.

    (1) I don’t like games. And that’s what you’re engaging in at this point. I didn’t care for your original choice to run to at least one other forum (mine) to continue your debate out of “earshot” of the original audience (folks need to finish their business where they started it). I let it go ONCE over here, because I wanted to respond just in case there were some other BW who, unlike you, are sincerely confused about the points you raised.

    (2) I don’t like your transparent efforts to create “wedges” between various BWE and BF-IRR bloggers. Don’t think that you’re going to (insincerely) compliment me in order to get in a “dig” against Halima, or anybody else whose work I respect. Beloved, I wasn’t born yesterday—I’ve seen that game before (“I’m going to compliment you as the admission price to use your platform to insult somebody else”).

    (3) You, and others, need to understand that folks are perfectly free to run their blogs or other platforms however they see fit. NOBODY is under any obligation to allow you to use the platform THEY built to work AGAINST their activism!

    For all those folks who are confused about why I don’t post every comment that’s submitted:

    This blog is activism in support of a struggle. Specifically the struggle for abundant lives for AA women and girls. This means that I don’t let opponents of abundant life for AA women and girls use this platform. This means that there’s NO open mic here for the Klan, or Nazis, or wife/woman beaters, or sexual predators, or extreme male sexists. There’s also NO open mic here for BW who oppose other BW having freedom of choice and abundant life!

    Would anybody expect Min. Farrakhan’s ministers to hand their microphone over to a White racist during one of their meetings? Umm…no. Well, the same idea applies here.

    The other angle is that this blog is in support of sane and serene living. As I explain in the FAQ section, there’s no room for strife here. I’m not looking for total agreement. I’m just interested in what Min. Farrakhan referred to as “operational unity.” As in being like-minded enough to be able to brainstorm and strategize together.

    This means that I’m okay with dissenting opinions AS LONG AS that dissent is within the overall context of supporting my overall goals—freedom of choice for BW and girls; and abundant life for BW and girls. I’m okay with publishing comments that disagree with the MEANS of BW getting to these goals.

    Over here, we can discuss and debate the means to these goals. But I’m NOT going to engage in debating the appropriateness of the goals themselves (freedom of choice and abundant life for BW and girls). If you don’t support these particular goals, then this is NOT the place for you. Everything is not for everybody. And that’s okay. You’ve got plenty of other places that support your belief in diminished lives for BW and girls. I suggest you go over there and fellowship with the people who believe as you do.

    So, I’m not going to publish comments from folks who are OPPOSED to these particular goals. And by “opposed to these goals,” I’m referring to people who SUPPORT the current status quo of diminished lives, degradation of BW and girls, and every behavior pattern/belief system that supports the status quo.

    Now, very few BW will come out and directly say that they support diminished lives and degradation for BW. But if they support and defend the status quo—then that’s what they support! Like the BW I see at various blogs who want to pretend that the current depictions of BW in hip-hop videos, the emerging AA stripper culture, and “sex work” are perfectly okay and not demeaning for BW. DON’T come here with that.

    To give some more concrete examples, this blog is NOT the place for anybody who wants to come here to advocate BW continuing with any of the following status quo behaviors and belief systems that keep BW trapped in diminished lives and suffering:

    (1) We must/should be “fair” to the various individuals who oppress us.

    (2) We must/should seek to “heal” the relationships between BM and BW.

    (3) Coming to Black blogs, forums, and gathering to fight with other Black people in order to champion the interests of NON-Black people (such as the “don’t you dare call me Black” so-called “biracials,” or other nonblack people).

    (4) Coming here to fixate on “ancestral wounds” from decades and centuries ago, while IGNORING the current, constant, and ever-increasing list of atrocities BM are committing against BW and girls RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK. How do you fix your lips to talk about “ancestral wounds” from centuries ago and NOT talk about The Dunbar Village Atrocity?! What is that?!

    (5) Various folks who are priviledged on the “oppression totem pole” (such as light-skinned BW, “hair-flipping biracials,” other so-called “women of color” who are nonblack) coming here to tell people who have been more aggrieved by colorist oppression than them (darker sisters, BW, and so on) that they should forget about the fact that they have been oppressed by colorism. That “y’all need to get over it” argument has always been a popular one among various classes of oppressors!

    Most criminals want their victims to totally forget about their victimization! That way they get to CONTINUE preying on folks.

    I believe that the Jewish people have demonstrated a response model that BW (and AAs in general) would do well to imitate—moving forward while simultaneously punishing those individuals who are harming us. As Muse pointed out in one of her comments, name an individual who has crossed Jewish people’s sensibilities in any way, and you’re naming somebody whose career has been totally destroyed. And they don’t do a lot of public talking about ending these folks’ careers; they just do it. We should do the same.

    Now, anyone who has spent some time reading my earlier blog knows that I’m NOT into “pity parties.” I believe that folks need to keep moving forward no matter what others are doing, or seeking to do to them.

    But I’m also NOT into letting wrongdoers get away with their wrongdoing. At the very least, wrongdoers should suffer the opprobrium of being identified as wrongdoers. It’s injustice for a wrongdoer to be allowed to walk off like nothing ever happened.

    Beloved Eshowoman, your insincere flattery of me was inaccurate. I’m not “more reasonable” than Halima or any other BWE or BF-IRR bloggers. In fact, what you’ll discover is that I’m probably the least “reasonable,” and the most “strident” of the group in my own way. And as I mentioned to you earlier, you’re perfectly free to remain on the “Black Love”-Titanic as it continues sinking to the ocean floor. That’s your choice, and you’re welcome to it (along with its consequences). God respects free will, and so do I. Good luck and God bless.

    Anyhoo, I hope this clarifies where I stand, and how this blog operates, for any confused or disgruntled dissenting readers.

    Peace and blessings,
    Khadija Nassif