The More You Do This, The Less Desirable You’ll Look

It’s defeminizing for a woman to brawl publicly with men. When an African-American woman does this it reinforces the negative, repellent image of African-American women as belligerent she-males and un-women. She’s also validating broken and damaged Black men’s slander of African-American women as “Sapphires.” All in all, cyber-brawling is an extremely bad look for Black women.

On some unconscious level, the broken and damaged Internet Ike Turners know this. This is why they are frantic to draw Black women into brawling with them online. The Black women who fall into that trap confirm their slander; as well as being diverted from their long-term goals. The more time Black women spend fighting Internet Ike Turners, the less time they are spending on having their own personal needs met and self-actualization. This particular self-defeating aspect of this behavior was discussed in detail during this conversation:

TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN NEEDS FIRST

Get what you need first, then do x, y, z. Two readers mentioned this simple and wise rule in a different context during an earlier conversation. (Thanks ZooPath and Karen!) This is a pop culture detox issue because generations of African-American women have been programmed away from this basic rule of self-preservation. And programmed into making time for anything and everything except getting their own needs met. Meanwhile, men consistently make sure that their own needs are always being met.

Another angle of this pop culture detox issue is that generations of African-American women have also been tricked and programmed out of women’s natural role (of being protected and provided for) and into functioning as “Sister Soldiers.” This abnormal behavior of Black women functioning as warriors has been normalized in the minds of most African-Americans. [Mostly for the purpose of picking up African-American men’s slack.] It’s an example of what Elijah Muhammad called “tricknology” when people trick you into beliefs and practices that are contrary to your interests.

There’s nothing normal about a woman directly and publicly fighting with men. That’s a man’s job. Women who haven’t been subjected to this programming know that the better move is to have men fight other men on their behalf. And this is exactly what most non-Black women do.

Street-fightin’, cyber-brawlin’ Black women reinforce the negative, unfeminine image of African-American women, and serve to block African-American women from escaping the horrors of the numerically imbalanced, radioactive all-Black dating scene into the wider world.

OTHER TYPES OF WOMEN KNOW BETTER THAN TO LOWER THEIR IMAGE BY BRAWLING IN PUBLIC. THEY FIGHT INDIRECTLY BY HAVING MEN FIGHT OTHER MALES ON THEIR BEHALF.

Other types of women know better than to be seen doing anything like that in public. They know better than to be seen publicly fighting with males. Other women know that it’s much better to have a man fight other males on their behalf. This way they preserve their image as feminine, desirable women. As opposed to making themselves look like she-males.

MARRIAGE-MINDED AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN SHOULD FIRST FOCUS THEIR MENTAL ENERGIES ON FINDING A QUALITY HUSBAND INSTEAD OF BRAWLING WITH INTERNET IKE TURNERS

It has been said that “living well is the best revenge.” As more individual Black women marry quality, powerful men, many of the collective problems that Black women face will solve themselves. Instead of cyber-brawling with Internet Ike Turners, the better strategy is to focus on:

(1) Finding a quality husband. He’ll fight damaged and broken males for you. This post (in the section titled, “Gil’s Awkward Moment“) mentions an example of this. Finding a quality husband should be each marriage-minded Black woman’s priority, instead of rolling around in the mud brawling with Internet Ike Turners and the guard-dog “race women” who fight for them.

(2) On the political level, lobbying male politicians, ministers, and so on to fight publicly in defense of African-American women’s interests. Again, this is the same strategy that other women use of having men fight men on their behalf.

(3) If a woman just must speak out in response to the verbal droppings of broken and damaged Black men, it’s better for her to do so on her own platform. Publicly going back and forth with Internet Ike Turners (especially in a space that you don’t control) is a bad look.

MANY PROBLEMS WILL SOLVE THEMSELVES WHEN MORE BLACK WOMEN MARRY THE MOST POWERFUL MEN ON THE PLANET. THIS IS HOW ASIAN WOMEN GREATLY IMPROVED THEIR COLLECTIVE IMAGE.

Finally, the long-term, permanent solution to the twin problems of: (1) African-American women’s negative public image and (2) the harmful public slander of Black women by Black men will only come about as more African-American women marry more of the most powerful, dominant men. For a very long time leading up to right now, White men have been the most powerful, dominant, Alpha men on this planet. It’s reasonable to expect them to remain the planet’s most powerful, Alpha men for the foreseeable future.

This is the strategy that Asian women quietly and successfully carried out. These women did this to better their own individual circumstances, but it had the positive side effect of bettering their collective image. As increasing numbers of quality, prominent, powerful White men started marrying Asian women, suddenly Asian women started being perceived as increasingly desirable and attractive by other types of men.

Asian women weren’t always considered desirable by large numbers of non-Asian men. That shift in mass perception came about because of more Asian women marrying prominent, powerful, Alpha-male, White men.

I would add that the common assumption was that such women were among the Asian prostitutes that hang around US Army bases in Japan, Korea, South Vietnam, Thailand, the Phillipines, and so on. And many of them were! Asian women indirectly turned that mass negative perception totally around. One Asian bride—married to a prominent, powerful, Alpha male, White husband—at a time. African-American women can do the same thing.

THIS IS BECAUSE MOST MEN OF COLOR TAKE THEIR CUES ABOUT MANY ISSUES, INCLUDING WOMEN’S DESIRABILITY, FROM DOMINANT WHITE MEN

This is because most men of color on this planet take their cues in assessing women’s desirability from White men. In terms of raw power, White men are the dominant men on this planet. Whatever White men feel is desirable, other men will follow their lead and buy into that belief.

African-American males are generally followers on this planet. They are not the dominant, Alpha males on this planet who get to decide which groups of women are considered attractive. Black men take their lead from the dominant White men. Whoever the dominant White men feel is attractive (White women and Asian women in general, and individual Black women), many Black men will follow their lead and parrot whatever these dominant White men say about these women. For example, I didn’t start hearing many African-American men saying that the dark-skinned Mrs. Obama is attractive until after the White media and White men were publicly talking about how she’s glamorous and reminiscent of Jacqueline Kennedy.

When more dominant, powerful, Alpha-male White men marry Black women, then Black men will stop slandering Black women. Either out of their habit of taking their cues from White men, or out of fear of offending this emerging critical mass of White men who view Black women attractive and desirable.

More and more individual African-American women living well by being married to quality men is the long-term solution to most of African-American women’s collective problems.

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78 Responses to “The More You Do This, The Less Desirable You’ll Look”

  1. JaliliMaster says:

    Behaviour is also very important. I’m not going to rehash all that has already been said re: fighting and engaging in public exchange of words. I’ll just add that you should behave as if you EXPECT the men in your vicinity to be the ones to ‘diffuse’ the situation. I know it may sound strange to some people, but that is normal for a lot of us. If these men know that you have that mindset, men being men, they’d want to stand up and protect. I can’t vouch for negroes as they are a whole different breed.

    Similarly, if you see a physical scuffle being had, even if it is between two women, you do not go and try to sort it out. You’ll probably just end up in the fight yourself. If someone is intentionally trying to have a verbal tiff with you, the best thing to do is ignore them. I know it might itch to give a reply, but when you argue with a fool in public, most people won’t be able to tell the difference.

  2. Foxycleopatra says:

    Re bw/AAw image:

    I am happy that AAw are finally being receptive to the good well-intentioned advice from other non-AA bw. I remeber a few years ago, the usual reply I would get from AA women would be along the lines of:
    -No girl, how could you think like that, we need to stick with brothas and help them out (funnily enough, they never told me who was helping sistas out)
    -Hmmm shame, I would have expected more from a sista from the ‘homeland’…..(whatever that means).
    -You have bought into the lies that white supremacist have told you
    …….and yadda yadda.

    When I try to explain to AA women about what their collective image is among non-AAs, they would never listen. To be honest with you, it wasn’t until I began associating with middle easterners that things became clearer for me. Previously, it was moslty Europeans and I would pass off their negative imagery and opinions and just mentally label them as racist. If you speak with some Arabs and Persians, some years ago, their image of bw was that we were hoes. Sounds harsh, yeah but it is the truth. It was only when they began doing business with Africans and began veiwing them as merchants, that their view of African women began to change but then that ‘whore’ image was one that they then tied to AA women instead of bw at large. Now, the mid-east men have been marrying Afr wmen for ages but collectively, the image they had of bw as a whole only recently changed. I will admit that the 1st few times I heard some mid-east men saying such things about AA women, I took offence. They didn’t see themselves as offending me bcos as far as they were concerned, I wasn’t AA, but that didn’t make any difference to me. Later though, I had to be honest. I could very much see where these men were getting this image from. Just think of it, a man who has never met an AA and yet is bombarded practically everyday with images of bw as they are portrayed in hip hop. What opinion do you think he is eventually going to have of bw? Bear in mind that technically, such drivel could actually benefit non-AA or non-western black women but i refuse to see it in that way. Although hip hop debases the humanity of bw, AA women are the ones most negatively affected by it and it is high time that AA women said ‘enough is enough’.

    I have a male friend who is Persian (Iranian). This guy has a preference for bw. He has already said that for marriage, his 1st choice would be a black woman, 2nd would be Persian/Iranian and 3rd would be an Arab. Anyway, this guy graduated from university here in the UK 2yrs ago. His parents wanted to send him to the U.S. for his masters/postgrad. This guy told me that he didnt want to go bcos he really believed he would meet the person he was going to marry while in college and was afraid that if he fell in love with an AA girl, his parents would not allow him marry her. He said that if he stayed in the UK, then it would be more likely that she would be African and although his parents might object, they would come round eventually. Anyway, he eventually went to America. I saw his profile on facebook and it recently changed to ‘in a relationship’. I clicked the name and the girl is black. I also think she is AA. Now the guy wants to do a phd cos he doesn’t want to leave without her. The girl is also doing her postgrad studies. I just hope that she is sensible cos this guy is what I would view as a high value guy (family-oriented/marriage-minded, well educated, grounded, good character etc). Also, his family have got the ‘cashinta’ aka ‘Arab-money’ lol and he is an only child so any girl that marries this guy is ‘set for life’……..and did I add that the guy is cute. I just hope that AA women see that there are several men who are at the top of society or getting to the top of society that are more than willing to have families with AA women. Dont let anyone tell you that it is only ‘exotic’ type of bw that these men are interested in. What does an ‘exotic bw’ look like anyway? I am West African and some ppl would use exotic to describe me but if you put me in a room full of AA women, unless I spoke and you heard my accent, you would not be able to tell.

    On a second note pls, AA women should stop taking offence when they are referred to as being exotic. It is most often than not, meant as a compliment. I hear bm saying they view ww as exotic, I doubt ww will complain about that. AA women shoot themselves in the foot a lot of the times with these kinds of situations. I hope you know that among non-American men, you will be viewed as exotic. Now are you really going to take offence at that? And yet I’ll still hear some of you complain that you dont get some benefit bcos u r viewed as ‘generic’. I really dont understand this contradiction. On one hand, you will complain that u are being viewed as exotic and on the other hand, complain that someone else is being viewed as exotic? I hope you know that even among non-black U.S. men, AA women were and still are viewed as exotic but bcos of political correctness, those American men will not say it. AA women need to learn to know when something actually benefits them. I hear bm saying that their prefernce for lighter skinned/mixed race women just has to do with their ‘exoticity’ and both them (bm) and the women they are extolling see nothing wrong with it. Yet these same men will turn around and tell a bw that any non-bm that refers to them as exotic is fetishising them or being a racist and stupid bw buy into that crap.

  3. Tracy says:

    “You’ve reminded me of something that I found amusing as a teenager. When my mother was in high school in the 1950s, they had a regular class (with textbooks and educational movies!) all about gentlemanly/ladylike manners and etiquette. I’ll have to ask her what that class was called. (Was it part of Home Economics? I don’t know . . .)”

    It was called “Charm School” and I went from 6th grade to my sophmore year in high school. It wasn’t taught in school, but your parents paid for you to go outside of school. We were taught table manners, personal care, party planning, languages (French) and general etiquette for young ladies of color.

    Our teacher, Ms. Thibadeaux, taught us as though she fully expected us to travel overseas, mingle with dignitaries,land rich husbands, and yes use our femininity to our advantage. That is what I loved about her, she treated us as young women about to enter and take their places in the world, not as “black girls” that would be on the church board someday.

    To this day, my suitors have raved about my “being a lady” and how I am at ease in any setting.

    I tried briefly to resurrect what I had learned to some young girls at my former church, but THE PARENTS (single moms) objected to me teaching their babymommas in training “how to be White”…nevermind that I was doing it for free..the girls loved it tho

    This would be a great side job for someone that has the patience – my parents were charged monthly in advance – but it will be a tough job in these days..

  4. A-ion says:

    OMG!! The rumors are true! Welcome back Khadija!! I am a long time lurker that has posted once or twice previously. I understood when you left, but now that you’re back :::does happy dance::. Me and all my girlfriends missed you!

    “Whatever White men feel is desirable, other men will follow their lead and buy into that belief.”

    Perfect example: that infamous line from Jungle Fever that’s concurrent with a lot BM’s ideology that “when a white boy dates a sistuh, he gets a finnnne lookin sistuh”, when in actuality she’s only more attractive because she’s with a wm and that *SOLELY* validates her attractiveness. It’s really like a little boy in “papa’s shoes” so to speak albeit more tragic and more pathetic.

  5. A-ion says:

    “She’s also validating broken and damaged Black men’s slander of African-American women as “Sapphires.”

    Another thing I’ve noticed is black womens hesitance to speak to whites about street harassment, protection under the law, our inability to live in safety due to segregation and so forth. These are issues that PROVE our vulnerability. We can worry about “whether or not this may increase racism against black men” later, and get our priorities in check. Do you think black men care that seeing white women as ally’s encourages racism against black women, or that the white women they chose are racist against black women? This is one area where if we must engage the public, it’s extremely important to team forces with sane whites about the issue of safety, elimination of drug wars, weapons, corrupting children and endangering girls through sexually explicit “gang rape” lyrics and so on. We also strategically avoid the “mismatched bedfellows” political argument that black women have nothing in common with sound minded whites who are clear about things like public safety. This may not be ideal, but abusers generally watch what they do once it has become public knowledge and their “dirty laundry” is cleared. Another example is that it is republicans and moderates (sadly) who are more likely to take a stance on hard crime while liberal white men see black men as victims in need of “saving” (proof that black men aren’t respected like other men to stand alone without help from whites), and are just as bad of sympathizers of black male oppression as . I can picture my dad (Bajan), and older black barbadian men being blatantly offended by the thought that they need a man’s “helping hand” or handouts. The old cats of the Civil Rights movement, men like Malcolm X weren’t advocating for “helping hands”, but for full equality and sovereignty so that they didn’t have to ask for help.

    UGH! It’s so angering! Just today on racialicious I saw a story about liberal whites and black enablers picketing for removal of felons from prisons. It’s because by defending black male criminals we’ve effectively told these “liberal” and other misguided/guilt ridden whites that we have an “understanding” with black men that their violent and sexually aggressive behavior is something we can “handle”. Whites know their children can’t “handle” sexual predatory criminals on their own, which is why there are “neighborhood watch committees” and “alerts” giving the addresses of previously imprisoned sex offenders! You think they are also picketing to move these ex felons into Park Slope BK or the suburbs? Nope, it’s ALREADY KNOWN that they will be going back to “their people” in ghettos that ALSO have children and women.

    Yes a lot of racism is common in BOTH republican and democratic circles. But often when I hear SOME republicans speak they are basically saying the same things we are. 1. hold grown men responsible 2. stop making excuses for men who engage in reckless violence and so on..

    THANK YOU, Khadija, for inspiring us. I’m sending your new site to everyone.

  6. Jess says:

    I plan on buying your book.

  7. YMB says:

    Thank you Khadija, NijaG, PioneerValleyWoman, Jalilimaster, and anyone else I might have overlooked. I truly appreciate the advice you’ve taken the time to give. 🙂

    I have great posture, have always been stylish and feminine in appearance, do not speak with a hood dialect, and have never been involved in a physical altercation. I desire to be more lady-like in my demeanor. Although I am well-liked and all of my friends say I’m a sweet person, I also give people the impression that I won’t take any guff. My mother says that I was a preschooler, I told someone, “I can chew you up and I can spit you out,” and I’ve carried that unfortunate attitude into adulthood. I’m much better than I used to be, but I’m still a work in progress and open to solid advice wherever I find it.

    I read an article years ago about a white woman who had similar issues. Her turning point came when she got into an argument with another woman at a bar and threw her drink into her face. At the time I read it, I felt she was justified in doing so, but now I realize that sort of behavior is not normal or dignified. Meditation helped this woman mellow out and lose the combative attitude. I think this may also be at least part solution for myself and for other AAW who seek to lose their inner tough girl. If I find a link for the article, I will share it, with Khadija’s permission.

    Jalilimaster and Khadija,

    Your guidance that AAW should learn from Asian women in order to raise their esteem amongst men is spot on. It reminds me of an article by a white man I read a long time ago where he used his experiences at a restaurant with an all Asian woman waitstaff to illustrate why many men find AW more desirable than “American” women:
    “To begin with, look at the American women in the Spot. Perhaps a third of them are stylishly dressed. The rest of the gringas run from undistinguished to dumpster-casual: baggy jeans, oversize shirts — often male shirts — with the tails out. They seem to affect a sort of homeless chic, actually to want to look bad, and do it with more than a touch of androgyny. A high proportion are at least somewhat overweight. (So are the men, but that’s another subject.) The Asians, without exception, are sleek, well-groomed, and dressed with an understated sexiness that never pushes trashy.

    Further, the Asians are what were once called “ladies,” a thought repellant to feminists but very so refreshing to men. Listen to the American women at neighboring tables, and you will frequently hear phrases like, “He’s a ****ing piece of ****.” In what appears to be a determined attempt to be men, they have adopted the mode of discourse of a male locker room and made it their normal language. The Asians, classier, better students of men, do not have foul mouths. They presumably know about body parts and bathroom functions, but do not believe that a woman raises her stature by referring to them constantly in mixed company.”

    http://www.fredoneverything.net/AsianWomen.shtml

  8. YMB says:

    Foxycleopatra,

    Re: Taking being referred to as the sign of an insulting fetish. Black men (and women) picked up the baton and ran with it, but I believe it was white women who first began to refer to that as demeaning and fetishistic to undermine white men’s relationships with Asian women. Of course when men of other races appreciate white women’s particular physical characteristics, it’s not a bizarre and degrading fetish, it’s just the natural order of things.

  9. Tracy,

    In additional to the charm schools, there was something similar being taught during the school day. At least in the 1950s. From the way my mother talked about it, I never got the impression that it was a separate class, but taught as a component of something else, like Home Economics.

    You said, “I tried briefly to resurrect what I had learned to some young girls at my former church, but THE PARENTS (single moms) objected to me teaching their babymommas in training “how to be White”…nevermind that I was doing it for free..the girls loved it tho”

    {exasperated sigh}
    ______________________________________

    A-ion,

    Thank you for your kind words, ongoing support, AND “happy dance”! LOL! I truly appreciate it.
    ________________________________________

    Jess,

    Thank you for your support; I truly appreciate it!
    ________________________________________

    YMB,

    You’re welcome!

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  10. CW says:

    Hey Khadija!

    I needed to catch up on this EXCELLENT POSTbefore responding…Had a little excitement around here this week…But back at the ranch…

    I don’t know what else can be said…By now, we either get it or we don’t…And those who have not been exposed to BWE blogs should at bare minimum know there is; A-Something amiss & B-Wants to improve her lot in life…I was telling Faith that after 25, my alarm bells began going off…Grant it at that time, I was chasing my tail, but nonetheless was on a quest for answers….

    (Referencing a previous post)
    “….This includes the annual madness of the NAACP Image Awards. This includes the West Palm Beach, Florida NAACP chapter’s original support of some of the now-convicted Dunbar Village gang-rapists. “

    Simply put, there is no reciprocity within the typical Black community…The party line of “Give, give, give” ….”Give till it hurts”…”Your reward will come (someday)” is so tired that hearing it makes me wanna bang my head up against the wall…I feel sorry for the Black women who give to the NAACP, & like organizations who do not reciprocate by protecting women and children…I pity BW who march in 90 degree weather behind the imprisonment of degenerates who if set free, may come and victimize HER….

    To highlight this point, I had a slave-catcher on my blog make the following remark: “Black men are wonderful wonderful beings. Together we were the 1st couple on earth. Made in the image and likeness of the Creator himself. All of my experiences with Black men have been divine. I wouldnt change my mind for a million dollars. He is all I am attracted to, all I want, all I need. I will ride with him til I die. I will not allow him to mistreat me but I will uplift him so that he never feels the need to.”

    Things that crossed my mind…

    -Have any of these divine BM made any moves towards marriage?

    -Why didn’t they ride with her until they died?

    -So we gotta uplift these men-boys (Possibly despite adequate contribution) to ensure he won’t harm us?

    FAIL

    It is essential, now more than ever to avoid the pitfall of arguing back and forth with these types…Realize that NOTHING you say, no matter how logical will CONVINCE DBRS to do right…That is a trait which is taught, then cultivated continuously later on down the line…Do not make the error of “Believing in him”…”Uplifting the damage out”…This isn’t your washing machine…Those stains will not come out by those means…Black women…You are not qualified, nor obligated to heal these elements…(And if qualified, hopefully you would not be personally entangled with such)

    This problem took years of coddling and excuse-making to take hold…No overnight or “Ten-Step” quick fix here…What it will take is focus and determination to:

    -Live well

    -Dismiss those who are bringing you down or of no-value

    -Take steps to ensure the protection of BW/BGs in your circle

    This undertaking can be executed in innumerable ways…The point is -DO SOMETHING! But that something is not arguing with those who benefit in keeping BW at hand…

  11. Everybody,

    I’m not doing Readers’ Money Quotes anymore, but I feel compelled to repeat and emphasize the EXCELLENT point that YMB made in her comment above, when she said:

    “Re: Taking being referred to as the sign of an insulting fetish. Black men (and women) picked up the baton and ran with it, but I believe it was white women who first began to refer to that as demeaning and fetishistic to undermine white men’s relationships with Asian women. Of course when men of other races appreciate white women’s particular physical characteristics, it’s not a bizarre and degrading fetish, it’s just the natural order of things.”

    {DEEP martial arts bow in salute of YMB’s analysis here}

    When are more AAW going to learn to view assertions in light of what they’re doing FOR or AGAINST the speaker and the listener?

    This gets back to the Think About Your OWN Circumstances theme that I’ve harped on in the past. So many AAW parrot statements from all sorts of other people that benefit these other folks, and harm the foolish AAW who mindlessly repeat them.

    A related idiotic AAW behavior pattern is interjecting feigned moral superiority into issues in ways that don’t apply. Especially when the AAW who are doing so are NOT in a position to be so sanctimonious.

    For example, I’m always amazed to hear/read so many AAW saying that they wouldn’t want to date/marry IR because that wouldn’t be their 1st preference. And some other such drivel about how it wouldn’t be “fair” to date non-Black (quality) men as only a 2nd choice, yadda, yadda, yadda.

    Many of the AAW that I see in real life who make these statements are talking this stuff while they’re: (1) unhappily single; and/or (2) man-sharing! I resist the urge to ask these women, “Are you crazy?”

    The level of presumption involved in all of this is breathtaking. NOBODY can ever truly know what’s going on in somebody else’s head. All you can really see are a person’s actions. That’s part of the reason why there are unexpected and unanticipated workplace shootings.

    As long as a spouse treats you WELL, and you treat them WELL, and BOTH of you are happy . . . what difference does it make how you to got to that person (in terms of preference ranking)? By the same “logic,” this means that widowers and widows should not remarry unless and until they find somebody who meets their needs in the exact same way as their previous, now-deceased spouse (who was their #1 preference in a spouse).

    I think about the Holocaust survivors after WWII who remarried. I think about OUR ancestors who remarried at the end of slavery—after having been forcibly separated from their original spouses (who were sold away to other slaveowners).

    Were these survivors somehow WRONG or UNETHICAL for building GOOD 2nd marriages and healthy families with the people who were available to them? Even though I’m sure many of these people who were available to be their 2nd spouses weren’t their “1st preference” in a spouse? [With their “1st preference” folks being dead, sold away, missing, or otherwise unavailable.]

    I’m NOT talking about “settling” for less quality. Or about exploiting somebody who’s not your “1st preference.” I’m talking about somebody who happens to be different, NOT less than your 1st preference. Somebody who will treat you WELL; and somebody that you will treat WELL.

    How is it “wrong” to build a good marriage and a good family with somebody who is different (not less) than your 1st preference? Especially when some of the AAW who are talking this stuff are settling for LESS such as man-sharing? This sounds absolutely crazy to me.

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  12. sistrunkqueen says:

    It just seems as some of the posts are criticizing AA women on their dress, speech , and comportment? Yes AA women need to be more refined, but I have noticed in my interactions with Africans that they have a very low expectation of AAs. When I was engaged to a Ghanian man about five years ago I was told by his peers that I did not act or speak like typical AA women in Atlanta. Atlanta is a special place. I have heard this from Africans and West Indians.
    I don’t know about the Arabs or middle Easterners/Arabs, but I did send a post a few days ago about it. It did not get posted. I think the average educated AA woman would do well in any setting. I know I have.

  13. Sistrunkqueen,

    You said, “I don’t know about the Arabs or middle Easterners/Arabs, but I did send a post a few days ago about it. It did not get posted.”

    If you’re talking about it didn’t get posted here, I don’t remember seeing anything like that (of the spam and other comments that I’ve tossed into the trash bin lately).

    You said, “It just seems as some of the posts are criticizing AA women on their dress, speech , and comportment? Yes AA women need to be more refined, but I have noticed in my interactions with Africans that they have a very low expectation of AAs.”

    Well, there’s a LOT that NEEDS to be criticized and corrected. In terms of outsiders who are being critical, some of it is in bad-faith. Some of it is in good-faith and in hopes of seeing AAW do better.

    Whatever the motivation, MUCH of what is being said in criticism is TRUE. And the result of the HORRIBLE images of ourselves that AAs have been beaming around the planet—and confirming in our real life public behavior. NO other ethnic group is “keeping it real.” And somehow, “real” = uncouth for many AAs.

    You said, “I think the average educated AA woman would do well in any setting. I know I have.

    I strongly disagree. There was a time when one could safely assume that an education meant that folks know how to comport themselves. Not anymore. And not for at least a decade.

    First, there are too many unassimilated, unreconstructed AA strivers who have gotten educations and entered the professions—AND held on to ghetto behaviors/mannerisms while doing so. For example, my former supervisor has held on to the ghetto habit of holding shouted conversations with people standing 2 feet away from her (instead of speaking in a normal, conversational volume).

    Second, there are also the educated AA women (of all class origins, including poor) who were raised better, but CHOOSE to engage in vulgar, uncouth behavior in order to fit in and “keep it real.”

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  14. Everybody,

    I feel that we’ve sufficiently covered the angles involved in this issue, so here’s what I’m going to do:

    I’m closing the comments on this post. If NijaG wants to email me the list of helpful materials that she and I discussed earlier on this thread, I’ll reopen the comments just to post that list.

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  15. Everybody,

    Here’s the list of materials regarding manners, charm and etiquette that NijaG sent me:

    Etiquette/Manners/Charm

    Social Graces: Manners, Conversation, and Charm for Today by Susan Wales

    Miss Manners’ Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior, Freshly Updated by Gloria Kamen

    Miss Manners’ Guide for the Turn-of-the-Millennium by Judith Martin

    A Guide to Elegance: For Every Woman Who Wants to Be Well and Properly Dressed on All Occasions by Geneviève Antoine-Dariaux

    The Art and Power of Being a Lady by Noelle Cleary
    ***********************************************

    THANK YOU, NijaG!