The Art of Being Feminine

IN A PATRIARCHAL WORLD, DEFEMINIZATION HAS SEVERE CONSEQUENCES FOR WOMEN

Halima, blog host of Black Women’s Interracial Relationship Circle, is holding an extremely important discussion about how many Black women have been programmed to cooperate with being defeminized. On a patriarchal planet, defeminization has severe consequences for women. As Halima points out, defeminization by becoming un-women means that a woman won’t receive what she identified as the four main manifestations of male protection: courtesy, concern, consideration, and concessions.

We see this widespread, glaring absence of male protection within Black residential areas. This absence of protection within Black residential areas is mostly due to African-American men’s general lack of interest in protecting and providing for Black women and children. [That’s how something like the Dunbar Village Atrocity happens, and how similar atrocities become everyday happenings in other Black residential areas. As I stressed at the previous blog, if you live in a Black residential area, a Dunbar Village atrocity is coming soon to your neighborhood. It’s just a matter of time.]

However, even those men (of all races and ethnic groups) who do want to function as protectors and providers are less inclined to feel protective of un-women and “Sister Soldiers.” Further, un-women and Sister Soldiers have problems escaping the horrors of the numerically imbalanced, radioactive all-Black dating scene into the wider world. Quality men are repelled by coarse she-males and un-women.

I understand how this Sister Soldiering became entrenched among African-American women. Generations of African-American women have been tricked and programmed out of women’s natural role (of being protected and provided for) and into functioning as Sister Soldiers. This abnormal behavior of Black women functioning as warriors has been normalized in the minds of most African-Americans. [Mostly for the purpose of picking up African-American men’s slack.] It’s an example of what Elijah Muhammad called “tricknology” when people trick you into beliefs and practices that are contrary to your interests.

In a recent comment, a reader named YMB succintly explained the cultural dynamics underlying this systematic defeminization of African-American women when she said:

It makes perfect sense in the context that BW are being groomed to take over the roles that BM will no longer fulfill. BW are now thought of as the primary breadwinners and protectors. I would wonder how many black SAHMs there are compared to how many BW have chronically unemployed stay at home (in)significant others. In this “help a brotha out” culture, I’m sure this is quite a common scenario.

It also makes perfect sense given the “scarcity, hunt and peck” predicament that BW find themselves in when they limit themselves to BM only. Theirs is the position of abject beggars who will do anything to entice a BM to stay. “You don’t want to have to give up having outside relationships? We can have an open relationship. Of course that will only apply to you, baby. You don’t have money for an engagement ring? I’ll take care of that, too.”

Even if no one says it as flatly as this, the prevailing attitude is that BW ARE undeserving of the traditional benefits women have enjoyed in marriage and better consider themselves lucky if they are able to convince any caliber of man to marry them.

Now for why other BW go along with this, I think it’s three-pronged. First the defeminization BW are subjected to. Secondly, single parenthood has become the sad standard among BW. Advocating being a SAHMs as a valid choice for BW flies in the face of the proud angry denial many BW have about parenting needing to be a two-parent job. Lastly, it serves as another enticement to snag reticent BM partners: “What, that BW wants to be a stay at home mother, living off her man?! I would never take advantage of my man like that.” In other words, pick me! pick me!

In modern black culture, it is an alien concept that a man would take pride in and enjoy being able to provide well enough for his wife that she could stay at home, and that he would see value in her doing so.

A CRASH COURSE IN FEMININE GRACE FOR RECOVERING SISTER SOLDIERS

We’ve had a previous conversation about how this behavior is a bad look that feeds into African-American women’s negative public image. Now, let’s talk about resources that explain and teach more attractive behavior. The kind of comportment that will better serve those African-American women who are seeking abundance in every area of life.

During Halima’s recent discussion, one of her readers mentioned a blog that I believe is extremely helpful, especially for recovering Sister Soldiers. It’s called The Art of Being Feminine. [Thanks, MissASP!]

Of course, I don’t agree with everything I’ve read over there. Even though she’s staunchly anti-feminist, the blog author is a woman who has benefited from feminism (like all modern American women). However, I believe the information she’s providing is a needed corrective for the coarse and unfeminine behavior that has become normalized among too many African-American women. This coarse behavior does not serve us well as we navigate the wider world.

TRY NOT TO HAVE KNEE-JERK RESPONSES AGAINST THE “ART OF BEING FEMININE” BLOG BASED ON OTHER WOMEN’S CONTEXTS

Let me repeat an observation that I made in an earlier post:

African-American women often buy into ideas that have no real relevance to their particular circumstances. This often comes up whenever Black women discuss the importance of marriage.

When analyzing ideas, Black women should keep their own circumstances in the forefront. African-American women are operating in a context that no other group of women are operating in. Other women may face similar issues, but at nowhere near the rate of African-American women. Black women need to stop tripping, recognize that other women’s context is not our context, and respond accordingly.

African-American women are operating in a context of a huge unmarried rate (relative to all other types of people) and a 70 percent-plus illegitimate child rate. In this context, African-American women can’t afford the luxury of calling ourselves “overcoming” the perception that we want legitimate marriage—just like every other race and ethnic group of women on the planet.

To paraphrase some other important points that Halima has made in earlier comments and blog posts:

Unlike the White female theorists who can afford to characterize marriage as a site of oppression, African-American women need to understand that marriage is important as a potential site for division of the hard work involved in raising children. Unlike the current situation where African-American women are bearing almost sole responsibility for raising Black children (as is clear from the 70 percent-plus out of wedlock rate).

Unlike women from other ethnic and racial groups, African-American women are being targeted for male disassociation and social disfellowship.

White women are generally protected and provided for within overall White American society (see the examples of how David Letterman and Kanye West were quickly chastised for publicly demeaning a White woman). White women can afford to talk that stuff about how they refuse to be “obsessed with marriage”—because they’re already reaping the benefits of marriage!

African-American women can’t afford the luxury of characterizing desire for marriage as “obsession” with marriage. African-American women are suffering the real consequences of the absence of marriage within the African-American collective. Consequences like the physical danger posed by legions of (mostly fatherless) predatory, violent criminals. Physically dangerous environments like Dunbar Village are one of many results of an absence of stable, two-parent families created by marriage.

I’m not talking about marriage as somehow saving the African-American collective. I’m talking about how the mass absence of marriage is drastically lowering the quality of Black women’s lives. And sometimes, such as within many Black residential areas, is creating physical danger to Black women.

White women and other women can afford to “trip,” and pretend like they don’t know the reasonable availability of marriage opportunities within their own group is doing something good and important for them (and their children). African-American women can’t afford to “trip” like that.

Don’t let the things you don’t like about that particular blog stop you from picking up pearls of wisdom that can enhance your life! A woman having feminine skills plus 21st century freedom of movement (especially in the Western world) is an extremely powerful combination!

COMING NEXT IN BOOK REVIEWS

The next book review will feature the ebook, The Feminine Arts of Charm and Charisma, by Melina, blog host of The Art of Being Feminine.

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158 Responses to “The Art of Being Feminine”

  1. MissASP says:

    Omg!!!! You don’t know how happy I am to be mentioned. Lol! It’s kinda sad 😀 But yes I completely agree with you! I hope to find my husband in college and be married by age 22-25 (yes, I’ve planned my life at 16. Sue me! Lol!!!!). I’d also like to be a stay at home mom with a small business from home. That is a summary of my ideal life. I thought I wanted to be a high-powered business owner but now I’m thinking a little differently.

    But yes, it’s a very helpful site, so is:

    http://thefemininewoman.com/

    Btw! I recently started my own blog about black femininity:

    http://blackfemininity.blogspot.com/

    Nothing is there so please send your readers over to give me some ideas about articles. I have a million thoughts and ideas but idk what people want to read. I’m only 16, yes, but I want this to be helpful to all bw as we learn and grow!

    Thanks! 🙂

  2. Karen R says:

    Hello,

    This post picks up on some of the things I was thinking about in relation to your post “Is Opportunity Monopolized?”

    I mentioned that it seems that many BW have a broken deserve or entitlement barometer and that we are conditioned to accept less. You wrote… But here’s the thing: This is NOT a “ghetto issue.” And I’m NOT talking about Sheniqua The Project-Dwelling Public Aid Recipient Who Doesn’t Know Any Better. The rotten seems to be the norm across the board within the entire AA collective.

    The de-feminization of BW occurs across all socioeconomic levels. For example, the rotten fruit that all BW are served up is the idea of being STRONG, self-sufficient, independent. I once called into a black talk radio show here in Metro Detroit and the topic was on BW, relationships and marriage. I mentioned the idea of BW being able to stay home full-time to take care of their children. This was not stated as a mandate on my part, but as an OPTION. The host, a black middle-aged woman put me on BLAST and stated with rage and anger in her voice “I get so sick of these BW looking for someone to take care of them…” Now for many of my friends who happen to be white who are college-educated (some with law and medical school degrees) the idea of staying home full-time as a wife and mother is the norm. It is part of the package of being protected and provided for and it is part of the feminine ideal for middle and upper-middle classes. Show me 10 young white mothers with toddlers in Grosse Pointe and I will show you 10 women who don’t work outside the home. Not because they can’t but because their husbands present it as an understood option that they exercise. But when we think of rotten fruit for upwardly mobile black women, if you dare say that you WANT to stay home while your children are little, you will get the “side-eye” from your mother, aunts, mother-in-law, etc. regardless of your husband’s financial status or ability to provide. In other words, a BW with a degree married to a neuro-surgeon is working. The older BW will suggest such things as “you don’t want him to think you’re taking advantage of him” or “I had to work, what’s wrong with you working?” The idea of being provided for an protected with abandon is frowned upon.

    • MissASP says:

      This is so true! And stupid. Bw should be expected to be sahm’s at the same rate as other women! The only know ONE black sahm. The other ones that I know of are married to nbm! It seems to me that bm only want their wives to sah if they’re of a certain “shade”. Light, mixed, or nbw that is. Wowwww! Any bw with a dream of staying at home with her children needs to date nbm or there’s a 99% chance that that dream will be over!

  3. NijaG says:

    I bookmarked that site when I saw it at Halima’s. I haven’t had a chance to really look at it, but I know it definitely has some very useful information.

    I don’t have much to add, but agree about how being unfeminine, coarse, vulgar, etc doesn’t endear women who behave/act this way to Quality men.

    Even though she’s staunchly anti-feminist, the blog author is a woman who has benefited from feminism (like all modern American women).

    I always shake my head at these very vehement modern day (35 and under) anti-feminist WW, especially those that want to crucify the whole movement. There seems to be some disconnect as to the benefits they enjoy now and how their fore-mothers sacrifices enabled them to enjoy the life and available options open to them.

    I quite agree that certain ideologies espoused especially by the latter waves of the feminist movement definitely has had some negative repercussions and effects in the larger male-female dynamics, but don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.

  4. MissASP,

    You said, “Omg!!!! You don’t know how happy I am to be mentioned. Lol!”

    I try to be careful to give credit where it’s due. I had never heard of these blogs until you mentioned them during the conversation at Halima’s blog. THANK YOU!

    You said, “I hope to find my husband in college and be married by age 22-25 (yes, I’ve planned my life at 16. Sue me! Lol!!!!). I’d also like to be a stay at home mom with a small business from home. That is a summary of my ideal life. I thought I wanted to be a high-powered business owner but now I’m thinking a little differently.”

    I’m delighted to hear that—at age 16—you have plans for what you want out of life, AND that you’re seeking out information that will help you reach your goals. Good for you! {deep martial arts bow}
    _____________________________________

    Karen R.,

    You said, “The de-feminization of BW occurs across all socioeconomic levels. For example, the rotten fruit that all BW are served up is the idea of being STRONG, self-sufficient, independent.”

    I totally agree.

    You said, “I once called into a black talk radio show here in Metro Detroit and the topic was on BW, relationships and marriage. I mentioned the idea of BW being able to stay home full-time to take care of their children. This was not stated as a mandate on my part, but as an OPTION. The host, a black middle-aged woman put me on BLAST and stated with rage and anger in her voice “I get so sick of these BW looking for someone to take care of them…””

    /sarcasm mode on/ Yes, how dare you want more for yourself than whatever (mess?) that enraged (envious?) BF host settled for? Who do you think you are? /sarcasm mode off/

    You said, “Now for many of my friends who happen to be white who are college-educated (some with law and medical school degrees) the idea of staying home full-time as a wife and mother is the norm. It is part of the package of being protected and provided for and it is part of the feminine ideal for middle and upper-middle classes.”

    Yes, indeed. Most of the WW attorneys that I see at work are working outside the home as a hobby, NOT a necessity. They’re free to quit whenever they want and become stay at home wives. With or without children.

    You said, “Show me 10 young white mothers with toddlers in Grosse Pointe and I will show you 10 women who don’t work outside the home. Not because they can’t but because their husbands present it as an understood option that they exercise. But when we think of rotten fruit for upwardly mobile black women, if you dare say that you WANT to stay home while your children are little, you will get the “side-eye” from your mother, aunts, mother-in-law, etc. regardless of your husband’s financial status or ability to provide. In other words, a BW with a degree married to a neuro-surgeon is working.”

    ITA. In fact, you’ve reminded me of a conversation I had with a married BF colleague who works in the same court building. Her husband hired a maid to assist her with the housekeeping. She felt slightly guilty about it, PLUS the pressure of all the “side-eyes” and snide remarks that she got from her female relatives.

    I gave her a pep talk about how this is the sort of comfort that our foremothers PRAYED we would have—which is why they worked so hard. I told her about how my grandmother—God rest her soul—who worked as a maid (cleaning for a White family) was delighted to hear about every bit of comfort and luxury that her descendants enjoy. Every time somebody got on a plane to go on vacation, every time somebody got on a cruise ship, Granny was overjoyed.

    This AA woman rallying cry of “I’m going to work like a mule. Even if I don’t have to” is crazy.
    __________________________________________

    NijaG,

    I think what’s setting off so many of that blog author’s detractors is that, from what I’ve seen so far, she’s not acknowledging what a prison all of that used to be when women didn’t have any choices prior to the feminist movement. Or what a prison that can be if the husband is operating in bad faith, and the woman has no skills or money to fall back on in such a case.

    Even with that said, I feel that many of her detractors are missing what I see as the point: A woman having feminine skills PLUS 21st century freedom of movement in the US is an extremely powerful combination!

    I’ll also note that the skills she’s teaching (feminine charm and charisma) will help a woman MOVE ON to a better man if necessary (if the previous man turns out to be operating in bad faith).

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

    • MissASP says:

      Thanks! You blog has been a great source of information for me as well! 🙂

      I just wanted to add that bw CAN have the option of staying at home with or without children! Your husband just probably won’t be black if you want that option! Men around the world as a whole want their wives to be able to do that. AA men only seem to want their wives to do that if they’re not black though! Oh well, idc really. I’m open to high quality men of all ethnic backgrounds AND nationalities (I think that bw forget this one. I hear that European wm as a whole LOVE bw and I know a few who are very nice to me and seem a lot more open minded than Americans in general!). Anyway, I’ve accepted the fact that my husband probably won’t be black. I like certain types of guys and the bm who r like that don’t even like bw when they’re actually expected to! But who cares??

      As Evia says, bw have the female card and that cannot be taken away! Add feminine qualities to that card and you have gold! 😀

      • lunanoire says:

        Yes, and it exists in smaller ways as well. My parents shared stories with me where people were surprised to meet my mother. They did not expect her to be black because my father would respond to “How was your weekend?” with “Great! My wife and I caught a play/went to the opera/visited a museum and then went to a french bistro.” So sad! My parents are both black.

        • MissASP says:

          That’s just sad. People are so ignorant. It’s also sad that people r suprised when a successful bm is with a bw. I won’t lie, I am too now!

    • NijaG says:

      Even with that said, I feel that many of her detractors are missing what I see as the point: A woman having feminine skills PLUS 21st century freedom of movement in the US is an extremely powerful combination!

      Very, Very, Powerful.
      ********************************************

      My friends and I from Third World countries/cultures are always saying that American women (specifically WW) don’t know how lucky they are with the progressive mindset and behavior of the men they have in general. Their society (fashioned by their men) ALLOWS them to take many things for granted.

      This has made a major portion of them collectively so spoiled and entitled that (in my personal opinion and from my observations over the last decade) they’re the ones causing the current negative backlash and experiences in male-female dynamics today.

      The latter ideologies of the feminist movement, made Western women buy into the idea that they could be the same as men. That they could think the same way, act the same way and be the same way. So WRONG, So False.

      I think some women are beginning to realize this and that’s why there has been a slow but growing movement (online and with rlsp books) for women to go back and reclaim some of the ancient wisdom that there ancestral mothers had.

      • MissASP says:

        I agree! But ww can do this. They can do a lot of things and never get blamed. I guess that’s how it should be but bw in America haven’t experienced that protection from their men. They’ve given it TO their men. Not me, not now!

        I try to identify more with my gender than my race. This will get bw much farther. As kadejah mentioned, this is how Asian women got ahead. They started thinking more about the well being of themselves and their future children! Let’s not forget that they don’t have the history and stereotypes in this country like bw do though. But individual bw don’t have to think about that. Just us as a whole.

        BE WARNED: Bm will constantly try to convince these individual bw that we are at the bottom, right along with them. Because this is what they think of us! Ignore these idiots and get yours!

        • Amanda says:

          They may not have had the same sterotypes, but Asian women had horrible sterotypes as well as Asian men. What we see now is, because of Asian women marrying outside their race as well as their work to fix their image

          • MissASP says:

            Very true! The power that wm as a whole have is unfair and crazy but it is what it is! Bm r so angry that they don’t have that power but yet they aren’t willing to put in all the work to get it! Asian men and Hispanic men AND non-AA bm come here and work extremely hard and they usually make sure that the women of their group benefit from that work. But bm who do well always take their money and give it to a woman who looks nothing like their mother. Then they act like they’re too good for all bw. It’s pathetic!

          • pointandclick says:

            @Amanda –

            You are correct. Most people in the U.S. are unaware that Asian women had a very poor image in the the U.S.not so long ago – just 60 years ago, actually.

            After WWII, and then the Korean War right after, most Americans’ perception of Asian women was based on the prostitutes and unfortunate war refugees that were woman.

            Depending on who you spoke to, Asian women were seen as unclean, immoral, unfeeling, thieves, greedy, duplicitous, unstable, etc., etc.

            Their collective image was much worse than the image of black women today.

            I think all of you are aware of how Asian women are perceived today in the U.S., particularly by white men, and by a lesser extent, black men.

            This staggering turnaround is quite amazing when you consider fully how maligned they were a fairly short time ago.

            Whatever you believe to be the reasons for the 180-degree turn in how American men see Asian women, there is no denying the result.

  5. mochachoc says:

    Thank you Khadija for this post. I like your emphasis on not only discussing the issues but shining a light for the ignorant. Halima’s post is most enlightening and very important for “recovering Sister Soldier’s”. I must say I did raise an eyebrow at the anti-feminist rhetoric on the site MissASP recommended. You are quite wise in reminding us not to throw out vital information when we don’t agree with all that is said.

    Truly your work is life transforming, can’t thank you enough.

  6. Mochachoc,

    You’re welcome and thank you for your kind words about the blog; I truly appreciate it. You said, “I must say I did raise an eyebrow at the anti-feminist rhetoric on the site MissASP recommended. You are quite wise in reminding us not to throw out vital information when we don’t agree with all that is said.”

    This builds on what we’ve discussed during several previous posts. BM NEVER let any sort of ideology slow them down from getting their personal needs met. If that means BM dating and marrying WW while they talk “Black love,” “Black liberation,” and “Black unity,” so be it.

    And no matter what BM involve themselves in (political activism or whatever), BM USE whatever activity as a vehicle for getting their personal needs met.

    Meanwhile, BW worry about being faithful to ideology—to their own detriment. Any AA women who wants to survive and thrive must NOT do this! Any AA woman who wants to survive and thrive must learn to be as “flexible” with ideology as BM!

    About The Art of Being Feminine blog:

    Yes, I find several of that blog author’s views to be quite distasteful.

    However, AA women DON’T have the luxury of focusing on what they find offensive about that blog author’s views. AA women have a majority OOW birth rate!

    And this is because of the low- and no-quality men that most of us have attached ourselves to. In a patriarchal world, a woman and her (future) children rise or fall based on the caliber of man that she takes up with. AA women can’t afford the luxury of being offended by that particular blog because that blog is offering vital information about how to acquire a QUALITY husband.

    If AA women want to live better, like non-Black women are almost uniformly living better—then they need to take up with a MUCH higher caliber of men. This means leaving the all-AA dating and mating scene and going out into the wider world. And the sort of behaviors and self-presentation that most AA women have been indoctrinated into believing are okay are NOT attractive to QUALITY men.

    Before anybody “gets it twisted”: Please don’t think for a moment that AA men are doing AA women any kind of favor by sexing (and not marrying) the masses of AA women in their current coarse and/or physically overweight state.

    First, AA men are generally NOT marrying the AA women they impregnate (hence the 70+% OOW birth rate). Second, the underlying reason why AA men don’t mind sexing overweight AA women is because these men know that being overweight LIMITS a woman’s choices in men! Being overweight or obese is a trap for women that keeps them settling for scraps and less than nothing from men.

    And something else—MissASP the teenager called it! LOL! She’s quite correct and wise (especially at her age) in noticing that the vast majority of AA men are unwilling and/or unable to provide for a BW the way men from other ethnic and racial groups provide for their women. And the handful of AA men who are willing to provide for a stay at home wife generally do so with great resentment (and much emotional abuse) if the wife is AA—BM don’t resent providing stay at home lifestyles for NON-Black women.

    Much of this has to do with so many AA men being fatherless—they don’t know how to be a protector and provider. And many of them don’t want to be a true protector and provider—they want the perks of being a head of household without shouldering any of the responsibilities.

    Any AA woman who seriously wants to exercise the option of being a comfortable stay at home wife needs to bypass 99.99% of AA men.

    In short, in a patriarchal world, if AA women want to live better (along with their children) then they need to MARRY higher-caliber, QUALITY men. If they want to marry quality men, then they must leave the all-Black dating world and enter the wider world. If they want to successfully navigate the wider world, then many AA women need to drastically change their comportment and self-presentation. The Art of Being Feminine blog has extremely helpful information that can assist with this process of self-reinvention.

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

    • Karen says:

      Perfectly stated. There are so many sources of information and one must be discriminating with applying that information that will work best for your own personal circumstances.

      The “Art of Being Feminine” blog does have a wealth of information. Take what is useful and toss the rest.

    • MissASP says:

      Thanks! Haha. But yes, anytime I’m on any forum (particularly YouTube) and I mention bw marrying high quality men (especially nbm), bm say “stop kidding yourselves, nbm don’t want you! Bw r whores for nbm! That’s why bm don’t want u!” Wth???? What group of men wants their men feeling like they’re on the bottom of the racial heiarchy!? Only bm! Yet these idiots will take any scrap of a nbw that they can. ANY scrap. Some of the nbw that I see bm with r so repulsive, I want to throw up! Yet they want us to feel jealous! Psh. They can feel jealous while the intelligent, classy, feminine bw marry high quality nbm and live the life. If a bw doesn’t want that for herself though, you can’t help! But they shouldn’t get angry when they have 3 kids and 3 baby daddies and r living on welfare. This is all while the baby daddies have married trailer park scraps and r giving what they DO have (not much) to their “snow bunnies”. Ugh!!!!!

    • mochachoc says:

      I’ve just got back from the supermarket. While perusing the aisle’s I had what you, Halima and others have stated on my mind. I decided to observe the other shoppers. (NB: I shop @ what is considered an expensive supermarket in a moderately affluent area of London. So I suppose my observations may not be an average representation)

      It was around 3.30 so there were a few mothers with their children in the store. Every, I repeat, every single non-Black mother I saw was wearing a wedding band. They spoke with (what seemed to me) hushed tones and they were ALL slim. There was no wild gesticulating motions with head, neck and eyes while conversing. No big belly laughs (I admit I do like a good belly laugh in the company of very close friends), no kissing of teeth, no pushed up mouths and no “if you don’t hear I’m going to tomp (i.e thump) you” being thrown at their children. Believe it or not I’ve heard many Black mother’s say this to keep their children in line. Sometimes these poor children are simply picking up items to look at. There were elderly white couples quietly shopping and talking. Women in their 20s or so who were also wearing wedding rings. I sighed. None of the few Black women I saw were adorned with diamonds. And do I have to say they were ALL overweight and rather drab. I really didn’t want it to be true, those d**n statistics. But alas! it seems my small admittedly unscientific observation seems to support those statistics.

      I was discussing the topic at hand with a friend. She said: “So you want me to stop being me, so I can find a man? You want me to sound weak? Any man I meet will just have to take me as I am.” I sighed. I showed her what PioneerValleyWoman said over on Halima’s blog. I told her: “you’re confusing femininity with passivity. We need to do things differently if we are to get what we say we want”.

      Khadija, many will be left behind.

      • MissASP says:

        Please direct your friend to this page:

        http://www.thefemininewoman.com/2010/01/shouldnt-i-just-be-loved-for-who-i-am-as-i-am/

        Unfortunately, she sounds like one of the many who will be left behind. Lord help her!

      • Tracy says:

        (Rolls eyes, sucks teeth and twists neck – all in jest!!)

        Weeellll, I would say since the men ain’t exactly kickin down her door with roses, diamonds and marriage propsals – heck she isn’t even getting McDonalds at this point – she needs to be “somebody else” i/o “as I am”….

        Question – do English BW have the same aversion to makeup as they do here. Here in the US, the reason for this was having COGIC parents that believed that makeup on women was a sin and bw looked fine just the “they were”. I later found out that this was another DBR tactic, just like the “thick” lie. Keep her fat and ugly and her choices will be nill…SMH

        • mochachoc says:

          I was unaware African-American women had an aversion to make-up. You wouldn’t know it with all the make-up blogs out there. I think young English BW enjoy wearing make-up. Some Black women my age (40s) are still a little reticent. However,they are catching on too.

          I spend a lot of time trying to figure out the acronyms used on blogs. Still racking my brain on what COGIC means. Do tell.

    • Tracy says:

      K, You said:

      ” Second, the underlying reason why AA men don’t mind sexing overweight AA women is because these men know that being overweight LIMITS a woman’s choices in men! Being overweight or obese is a trap for women that keeps them settling for scraps and less than nothing from men.”

      Sadly, that is one of the biggest hurdles that BW who really want to get out of the muck and into a real, quality relationship will have to face.

      For years the rhetoric has been “Oh, BW are supposed to be thick” “Nobody likes bones but a dog” “Some men like meat on them bones” etc. Um HMMM….yes and some men – oh say DBR BM – like a woman that doesn’t have any options. But still we continue to glorify obesity in bw like it is an entitlement, and not the albatross it is.

      It’s been a year since I have dropped the poundage – NEVER have I felt so womanly, so desirable. And NEVER have I been treated so well (Folks falling all over, eye contact, grinning all UP in a sistah’s face). The confidence that you feel and project is real and soooo much easier than having to jump around, jig and pretend that you are all that (IE : Gabby).

      Now that spring is here, everyday I see young girls whose bodies belie their ages in too tight tops and jeans, no girdles, no bras that have the correct support – just walking around like it is the cutest thing. I want to ask them “What decent man is going to want that?”

      I blame ourselves for taking in all of the “rotten food” that the media has fed us over time. By not questioning why most of our popular images are overweight bw (Thea, Monique, Oprah, Gabby, House of Pain,that chick from the Pine Sol commercials, etc) and why other talented but thinner actresses are shunted to the background (Yes, Halle blah blah, but she had to do penance with Billy Bob to get that Oscar), bw and the poplace in general have equated fat with BW. Look at commercials with “everyday” folks – the bw is almost always larger than everyone else.

      I am in no way saying that you can’t be a lady and be overweight…but I am saying that your playing field, playing hand, yahtzee board, whatever, will be much better. It is a hard walk, being healthy, but it is a good walk. Better body image, sharper mind, more energy…You get what you project..

      BW also have to remember who the forces are that are counting on you to just lie down and stay “big and proud!”. God forbid, bw start looking good and acting like ladies and just blossoming….that’s called COMPETITION

      Forgive me for rambling, I’m just passionate about bw leveling the playing field, especially when trying to find a suitable mate.

      • MissASP says:

        So true! But I do think that the younger generation is starting to get it. I’m n high school and the ideal among black girls seems (I don’t hang out with most of them) to be skinny but still with curves.

  7. DB says:

    Hello, Khadija:

    I just wanted to say “Thank You” for all of the wisdom that you are sharing. It is changing my life. God bless you for your courage and eloquence.

    DB

  8. rainebeaux says:

    Interesting: I was perusing The Art of Being Feminine just last week. The anti-feminist bent did catch me off guard but I pressed on–when one has done everything wrong in the self-preservation department for the better part of a decade, you need all the help you can get in catching up. I need to bookmark that site.

    ___

    Khadija, you said: First, AA men are generally NOT marrying the AA women they impregnate (hence the 70+% OOW birth rate). Second, the underlying reason why AA men don’t mind sexing overweight AA women is because these men know that being overweight LIMITS a woman’s choices in men! Being overweight or obese is a trap for women that keeps them settling for scraps and less than nothing from men.

    ^this explains in large part why my ex/co-parent in name only said nobody else would want me…and why I’ll be spending the next five years (minimum) doing EXTENSIVE damage control. Five long years…as I continue raising my child alone. [smh]

    ___

    until recently, being a SAHM was a foreign concept to me and thus never an option. In my mind–solely due to my upbringing and environment– everybody had to work, regardless of marital status and number of dependents, if any…unless one wanted to end up on the street. Then I woke up and took my “deserve/entitlement barometer” (thanks, Karen R) in for repairs. Again, a lot of work ahead of me.

    *MissASP, I salute you in figuring this out now, because where I am, a lot of your peers (and mine) aren’t so lucky. Keep getting the word out. You’ve warmed my freezer-burned heart. *curtsies*

    • MissASP says:

      Wow, thank you! Please check out my blog and leave some ideas for articles <3!

      Yes, bw have been sold the lie that it is not normal for a married mother of 5 to stay at home. Despite the costs of daycare and the low graduation rate of black kids! Smh.

    • MissASP says:

      Wow, thank you!

    • Tracy says:

      Hi Rain!!

      Why five years, if you don’t mind my asking? Hopefully, this isn’t some self punishment – It has only taken me a year, after a lifetime of thinking that I would be alone for the rest of my life, to start pursuing and TAKING what is mine. Your are probably younger, don’t waste time in shoulda/woulda land – get yours now dear!!
      😉

    • mochachoc says:

      “You’ve warmed my freezer-burned heart.” Oh Rainebeaux. My heart cried reading that. Isn’t it wonderful there are young women like MissASP and Jallilmaster who are getting it so young. But you know what, like Khadija has repeated time and again “it is never too late”. But I hear you.

  9. Shermayne says:

    Fantastic post, as always!!! Great information….am finally gettin it and am inplementing some MAJOR changes!!!!! Thank you all for providing such enriching information! Keep up the good work, it’s helping tremendously!

  10. HR Professional says:

    MissASP,

    Although I have not done too bad in my married life. I wish that when I was 16 I was as self aware as you. You speak like a woman many years older and wiser than yourself. Keep learning and growing. You will end up with a life full of happiness.

    • MissASP says:

      Thank you! I guess my secret is hanging around so many nbw peers and other like-minded black girls. Were all on such a different page than the black-identified kids from the “hood” (who act like it). Check out my blog! <3

  11. JaliliMaster says:

    Khadija, you are inviting trouble! Those few sentences where you mentioned the ‘w’ word is going to get A LOT of readers heated. I had my own experience of it just last week. ofcourse, I’m not the type that gets bothered, but……..

    • Tracy says:

      I say bring it on!! I am more than willing to knock over that golden calf!

      Freedom from all that constricts you (fat included) is true freedom!

  12. Tracy says:

    Sorry, I hit the Submit comment button by mistake!

    Just wanted to add Miss ASP – I am so proud of you!! Don’t give up your quest or your very carefully laid out plans! They will come true!!

  13. Jacki says:

    Khadija,

    Thank you for speaking so plainly about this.

    You said:

    “un-women and Sister Soldiers have problems escaping the horrors of the numerically imbalanced, radioactive all-Black dating scene into the wider world.”

    “A woman having feminine skills PLUS 21st century freedom of movement in the US is an extremely powerful combination!”

    This is truth. This realization (and some heavy lurking at the previous blog and Evia’s blog) prompted my blog. Thank you for the nudge.

    NijaG said:

    “The latter ideologies of the feminist movement, made Western women buy into the idea that they could be the same as men. That they could think the same way, act the same way and be the same way. So WRONG, So False.”

    This is also truth. The pendulum has swung too far. There is no balance. We can be so busy struggling and competing that we forget that it’s nice to be a soft, feminine woman.

    I’ve checked out both of those blogs and the truth is that useful information can be found almost anywhere. As with anything else, incorporate what benefits you and leave the rest where it is.

  14. Karen,

    You said, “Take what is useful and toss the rest.”

    Exactly.
    _____________________________________________

    MissASP,

    You said, “Yet they want us to feel jealous! Psh.”

    “Psh,” indeed. I don’t care either.
    ______________________________________________

    Mochachoc,

    You said, “It was around 3.30 so there were a few mothers with their children in the store. Every, I repeat, every single non-Black mother I saw was wearing a wedding band. They spoke with (what seemed to me) hushed tones and they were ALL slim. There was no wild gesticulating motions with head, neck and eyes while conversing. No big belly laughs (I admit I do like a good belly laugh in the company of very close friends)…”

    Indeed. I’ve made the same so-called “unscientific” observations. This is why I’m offended by the sheer intellectual dishonesty of the BW who lie to themselves, each other, and others by pretending that non-Black women are having the same problems and life experiences as BW in the US (and BW in the UK from what I’ve heard from you, Halima, and some other “UK correspondents”).

    If they’re old enough to be in the working world, then they’ve seen what you’ve just described with their WW and other non-Black women colleagues. They need to STOP tripping and STOP lying by pretending that non-BW are living the same MASS, low-quality of life as AA women (and from what I’ve heard, Caribbean-origin BW in the UK).

    I will note that I do belly laughs—ONLY in private with CLOSE friends; NEVER in public.

    You said,“…and no “if you don’t hear I’m going to tomp (i.e thump) you” being thrown at their children. Believe it or not I’ve heard many Black mother’s say this to keep their children in line. Sometimes these poor children are simply picking up items to look at.”

    I can’t repeat the vulgar, DREADFUL things that I’ve heard many AA women say to their little ones in public. Folks will be angry for me “telling” on us like this, but many AA women routinely curse like sailors at their small children in public. It’s become almost a norm, especially among working-class and poor AA women.

    You said, “There were elderly white couples quietly shopping and talking. Women in their 20s or so who were also wearing wedding rings. I sighed. None of the few Black women I saw were adorned with diamonds. And do I have to say they were ALL overweight and rather drab. I really didn’t want it to be true, those d**n statistics. But alas! it seems my small admittedly unscientific observation seems to support those statistics.”

    Like I said, BW need to stop tripping and stop lying about what’s going on all around them.

    You said, “Khadija, many will be left behind.”

    Indeed. And my conscience will continue to be perfectly clear as I continue to step over and around them, because I told them the truth and tried to give sincere advice. God respects free will, and so do I.
    ___________________________________________

    Tracy,

    You said, “For years the rhetoric has been “Oh, BW are supposed to be thick” “Nobody likes bones but a dog” “Some men like meat on them bones” etc. Um HMMM….yes and some men – oh say DBR BM – like a woman that doesn’t have any options.”(emphasis added)

    Thank you for PERFECTLY explaining what that particular phenomenon is really all about—much better than I could!

    You said, “Sadly, that is one of the biggest hurdles that BW who really want to get out of the muck and into a real, quality relationship will have to face.”

    That’s the bottom line. Again, God respects free will, and so do I. BW can either do what is required to have the best odds of lifestyle optimization. Or they can continue to “trip,” and pretend that reality isn’t so.

    And I don’t say these things as a spectator. Anybody who reads—

    1-the sample book chapter on this site; or

    2-the Wildest Dreams Check-in posts at the previous blog (where I detailed my adventures and misadventures with the Power 90 and P90X programs)—

    —will know that I work on SELF-correction of areas that I let slip! And anybody who reads the Wildest Dreams Check-in posts at the previous blog will know that I never claimed that any of this was easy. I complained every step of the way! LOL!

    You said, “The confidence that you feel and project is real and soooo much easier than having to jump around, jig and pretend that you are all that (IE : Gabby).”

    Tracy, THANK YOU for having the courage to say that out loud! So often, we “circle the wagons” in support of the wrong things! I don’t find anything uplifting or encouraging about a woman being morbidly obese.

    It reminds me of how so many AA women were so quick to BLINDLY rally around the South African “woman” runner (Caster Semenya) and defiantly hold “her” up as a shining example of Black womanhood. As far as I’m concerned, that was totally ill-advised. As I said at the time:

    “I believe that BW are making a HUGE long-term, strategic mistake by rallying around this individual with indignant tones of “How dare anybody question her gender?”

    We’re saying this as if this person is an accurate representation of Black womanhood. Is THIS individual somebody that we want to scream about and lift up as “ain’t she a woman, darn it?”

    I believe that by taking this posture, we are yet again undermining the image of BW as being desirable and feminine.

    A woman can be cut and muscular and still have a feminine shape, as we’ve seen with many other female athletes. That’s not what’s going on here.

    I’ve looked at the pictures of this individual’s physique. There’s NOTHING womanly about her. Including her moustache. I DON’T want this individual lifted up as any sort of example of Black womanhood. I’m NOT claiming this aberrant individual as an example of Black womanhood. “She” doesn’t have anything to do with me and other actual, normal women.

    Again, I think it’s a huge mistake for us to run around claiming this person is a “normal” BW. By doing so, we are cooperating with the idea that we aren’t women just like other women on the planet.

    I believe that she’s intersexed or has some other abnormality (genetic abnormality, something causing high testosterone levels, etc.).

    And no, it’s not “fair and square” for intersexed individuals or others with abnormally high testosterone levels or other male attributes to compete against normal women with normal levels of male hormones, etc. This is exactly the same unfair advantage that the East Germans and Soviets sought for their “female” athletes in previous eras. The East Germans and Soviets were cheating then by doing this. It’s still cheating now to use genetic non-women against women competitors.

    Intersexed individuals need to compete against the other athletes***meaning MEN***who have comparable levels of male hormones, and other male attributes, etc. That is what would be fair as far as I’m concerned.”

    I believe that AA women are making a similar long-term, collective image mistake with this “rally around Gabby and pretend that morbid obesity is attractive” thing that so many of us are doing.

    You said, “I am in no way saying that you can’t be a lady and be overweight…but I am saying that your playing field, playing hand, yahtzee board, whatever, will be much better. It is a hard walk, being healthy, but it is a good walk. Better body image, sharper mind, more energy…You get what you project..”

    Yes, reality intrudes upon pipe dreams of pretending that weight doesn’t affect the playing field.

    You said, “BW also have to remember who the forces are that are counting on you to just lie down and stay “big and proud!”. God forbid, bw start looking good and acting like ladies and just blossoming….that’s called COMPETITION”

    Exactly!

    You said, “Forgive me for rambling, I’m just passionate about bw leveling the playing field, especially when trying to find a suitable mate.”

    You weren’t rambling, and I feel equally passionate about BW “leveling the playing field” and taking our rightful place on the global stage!
    ______________________________________________

    DB,

    You’re welcome; and thank YOU for your kind words and well wishes. I truly appreciate it.
    _______________________________________________

    Rainebeaux,

    Please don’t feel as if you’ve “done everything wrong in the self-preservation department.” That’s not true. If this were true, then: (1) you wouldn’t be around at all, or (2) you wouldn’t be in any state to function, take in information, or help others (as you’ve done as a guest blogger over at CW’s house).

    Everyone makes mistakes—there are ALWAYS mistakes. Some are simply visible from the outside and other mistakes aren’t. Keep on moving forward!
    __________________________________________

    Shermayne,

    Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it.
    ____________________________________________

    JaliliMaster,

    You said, “Khadija, you are inviting trouble! Those few sentences where you mentioned the ‘w’ word is going to get A LOT of readers heated.”

    I know, but I don’t care anymore. This is literally a matter of life and death for BW. On so many levels.

    I would prefer that more BW be offended and ALIVE and LIVING WELL. As opposed to emotionally “comfortable”—while unnecessarily living unfulfilled lives before dying an early death from diabetes, strokes, and so on. That’s my bottom line with the “w” issue.
    ____________________________________________

    Jacki,

    You’re welcome; and thank YOU for your kind words. I truly appreciate it.

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  15. KM says:

    Today, I went to a new restaurant near my job. It’s a Indian Chaat place, very nice and warm with good lighting.

    I went in and the owners (men) were at first wary because of the reputation that BP have. But I smiled and I gave them my order in a nice, smooth, feminine voice. And after that, the men warmed up to me and even gave me a sample of their Biryani rice and asked about what I thought about their restaurant.

    That’s just an example of what acting feminine has done for me. I used to be…. mannish. Fussy with a nasty tone of voice, ordering people around and I was treated accordingly. But since I decided to become and act like the lady I am, things have changed for me and life has become pleasanter.

    It just annoys me that BW are pushed to become men in everything but in name for the convince of BM and everyone else. Yet, I’ve noticed that when BW take the time to be mannerly, we regain so much power with men. Plus, I’ve noticed with DBRs, if a BW reacts like a lady, it knocks DBRs off kilter, allowing a BW to get out of the situation without letting the DBR inflict damage.

    I don’t really have much to add because everyone else has said so much but I just wanted to post this.

    • MissASP says:

      Yes! I’ve heard a lot of wm say that that’s why they like aw. The feminine nature that most of them have. I really hope that more bw take to this. It increases our attractiveness to high quality males of all backgrounds! Cheers! <3

  16. NijaG says:

    BW also have to remember who the forces are that are counting on you to just lie down and stay “big and proud!”. God forbid, bw start looking good and acting like ladies and just blossoming….that’s called COMPETITION

    Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I think we have to add WW in America (those who control or are very influential in the various media outlets) to the mix when it comes to certain segments that might have a vested interest in portraying BW in certain negative ways.

    I stress America, because the media portrayal of BW and non-WW was very different in the TV shows and series when I was visiting in England. I stumbled across a blog (which I can’t find right now) that explained it way better. I don’t know about news or other forms of media, but when it comes to the TV shows/series, POC are portrayed as just normal regular part of the society. No blatant or subtle attributing of certain behaviors/stereotypes of to one group/race.

    • Tracy says:

      NijaG you said:

      “Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I think we have to add WW in America (those who control or are very influential in the various media outlets) to the mix when it comes to certain segments that might have a vested interest in portraying BW in certain negative ways.”

      You nailed it lady!! I have had BBC America for years now, and BW are portrayed, as you said, as NORMAL women. Men chase them, they have lives, they are thin or healthy, and no more drama than anyone else!

      But here in America, drama queen, fat, loud, neck rolling…

      And don’t forget the slew of “sucks to be you BW” newstories…Our femininity is being torn down and reshaped into this grotesque monster – but it seems that is what is making money for them.

      I remember black movies in the 70’s and 80’s. All of the successful Blacks were treated as tho they were betraying their race by living with the man and had to prove their Blackness by doing something stupid (dancing, falling in love with a jobless Negro). And it all ended by everyone going BACK TO THE HOOD!!

      I wonder how many parents of the kids that are running around now were affected by that message? Conspiracy indeed…

    • mochachoc says:

      And yet, and yet something is very wrong with BW (or more specifically Caribbean origin Black women) here too. We are seeing many of the same destructive phenomena described on BWE blogs. There has been a rise in young Black women being gang raped (yes by Black swines). I have noted a new phenomena whereby young Black women are walking around with violent dogs. Recently the police have reminded women through advertisements that they will be imprisoned if found harbouring a weapon for a boyfriend. Guns are not legal here. So unless you possess a licence and intend to shoot pigeons or deer in the countryside you have no business owning one.

      There are groups of Black people who are NOT part of “normal” British society. I’m witnessing Black women who are prostituting, high on drugs, begging, mentally unwell and alcoholics. Most of these women have children to take care of. Believe me when I say I NEVER EVER witnessed Black people in such misery when I was a child. Never.

      That’s the bottom end. Those who are doing better aint cutting it either.

  17. Magenta says:

    This post is excellent. I remember a conversation I had about Mo’Nique a couple of months ago. We were talking about her refusal to shave her legs and how many young black girls were taught not to shave because “men like it” and “white girls shave their legs.”

    I told them that I think BW are intentionally being brainwashed into doing things that will make them unattractive as possible. They are constantly told to not shave, not lose weight, be a ghetto “ride or die” chick, etc. They thought I was joking but I was dead serious. I am glad to know I am not the only one who feels this way. And the reason it is done is clear: to keep BW without options.

    I also think another reason is that black parents, fearful of their daughter getting pregnant, will actively discourage any efforts made by their daughter in the grooming department. Young black girls are told to “focus on the books” and not give any thought to developing their femininity or how to have age appropriate interaction with the opposite sex. This dynamic continues through college and the workplace. You then end up with a bunch of BW being asexual workhorses.

    When I look at some of the older pics of Michelle O, I wonder if she was given this “just focus on the books” worker bee script. They softened her image considerably after the election.

    This is another dangerous byproduct of living in DBR environments. These parents know that there are nothing but DBR predators in these environments and the only protection they can offer their daughters is to dress and and groom them in a way that will not attract male attention. Teach them to be tough, to treat all boys with contempt and suspicion, teach them that looking pretty and girly is being “fast”.

    WW can flaunt their femininity because they know they have adequate protection in their collective. They can teach their teenage and college age daughters how to be feminine without worrying about her being taken advantage of by some degenerate male predator. When more BW and girls leave DBR environments, they will feel more free to explore their femininity over time.

  18. Amanda says:

    With women becoming more and more anti feminist I think has to do with a disconnect for the experiences of younger women vs. older women who lived pre second wave or during second wave feminism. These women paved a way, but at some point the extremists highjacked the movement. There was an older woman who is a second wave feminist who in the 90’s called for a reform of feminism, because of the very issue of the experiences of the young being so different. She also stated that not all women are looking for the same thing.

    As for black women I think it has to do with the feminist movement never really addressed black women’s issues, because it was so focused on that of ww’s. Also American ww often don’t realize that feminism in other countries means different things.

    I’ve been studying womanism.

    • Tracy says:

      Feminism in my opinion was never made to address the problems or issues of WOC. Feminism in it’s infant stages was a platform for ww to SHARE in the oppression of POC.

      Bela Azbug, Gloria Steinem, even Betty Friedan from my home town – all had made what I consider racist, classist statements about their movement and bw . NOW’s very public show of not supporting Angela Davis was telling.

      I am also looking into Black Womanism – it’s all for and about us. Right after some Me-ism….

  19. lois says:

    @ Khadija, This was a good post.
    “I know, but I don’t care anymore. This is literally a matter of life and death for BW. On so many levels.”

    Ladies the about statement is so true and I can see alot of what Khadija and the other lady bloggers are referencing. Stop wasting your time on who did what and move your tail feathers as far as your dollars will take you out of the b/community.
    I was at work and a couple of my co-workers were talking about budget cuts. Later, I became a little anxious. LOL, my supervisor actually believed I was anxious because of more impending budget cuts. No my friend it is not the budget cuts, it is the upheaval I feel coming and bp will be wrost hit. I do not like seeing people hurt and especially myself. Love yourself enough to move to a more diverse community…be brave.

    @ Magenta, I agree with you.

    In the late 80’s I used to tell a bw friend of mines that I did not like the jokes some bm comedians were saying in referenced to bw. My friend basically was telling me that I was too sensitive and they were only jokes. My friend is an 50 y.o. idiot, she has never been married and it is too late for her to have any children. She sex bm and now a hm who is separated from his wife and that is because of his work and my friend receives with little reciprocity.

  20. KM,

    You said, “It just annoys me that BW are pushed to become men in everything but in name for the convince of BM and everyone else. Yet, I’ve noticed that when BW take the time to be mannerly, we regain so much power with men.”

    This is true.
    ____________________________________________

    NijaG,

    You said, “Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I think we have to add WW in America (those who control or are very influential in the various media outlets) to the mix when it comes to certain segments that might have a vested interest in portraying BW in certain negative ways.”

    It doesn’t have to be a conscious “conspiracy” for individual WW in the media to consistently act in their own best interests. And to act in their own best interests by making preemptive strikes against an additional, “extra” group of potential competitors (BW) for quality WM suitors. They’re not stupid. They saw and see what Asian women are doing—snagging large numbers of quality WM husbands. How does it serve WW’s interests to portray BW as desirable? It doesn’t. So, they have no rational reason to do that.
    ___________________________________________

    Magenta,

    Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it. You said, “I told them that I think BW are intentionally being brainwashed into doing things that will make them unattractive as possible. They are constantly told to not shave, not lose weight, be a ghetto “ride or die” chick, etc. They thought I was joking but I was dead serious. I am glad to know I am not the only one who feels this way. And the reason it is done is clear: to keep BW without options. (emphasis added)

    I agree.

    You said, “I also think another reason is that black parents, fearful of their daughter getting pregnant, will actively discourage any efforts made by their daughter in the grooming department. Young black girls are told to “focus on the books” and not give any thought to developing their femininity or how to have age appropriate interaction with the opposite sex. This dynamic continues through college and the workplace. You then end up with a bunch of BW being asexual workhorses.”

    I agree. This is why I’ve come to despise that “focus on the books” mantra. It unwittingly does so much harm to so many AA girls. Throughout their entire lifetimes.

    You said, “This is another dangerous byproduct of living in DBR environments.”

    Yes, and notice that the false solution is always to hobble AA girls’ femininity and attractiveness. Instead of either cleaning out the DBR predators OR moving to a better environment.

    You said, “When more BW and girls leave DBR environments, they will feel more free to explore their femininity over time.”

    That is, if they haven’t already bought into the un-woman/she-male/Sister Soldier brainwashing.
    ____________________________________________

    Lois,

    Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it. You said, “No my friend it is not the budget cuts, it is the upheaval I feel coming and bp will be wrost hit. I do not like seeing people hurt and especially myself. Love yourself enough to move to a more diverse community…be brave.”

    Yes, unfortunately, there will be MANY AA casualties of the process that has already begun—permanent underclass status for AAs while in the midst of a failing economy. With large numbers of UN-protected and UN-provided for AA women and children falling by the wayside.

    To change-up from the “Titanic” metaphor:

    “Saigon” is falling right now! The LAST few helicopters out of Saigon are evacuating the American embassy right now. This is it. There won’t be any more helicopters out.

    For those readers who’ve never seen it, I would suggest that you watch some YouTube news footage of what these last-minute military evacuation scenes looked like:

    South Vietnamese civilians . . . who hadn’t previously caught the hint that the North Vietnamese were going to overrun S. Vietnam . . . and who hadn’t gotten out earlier . . . scrambling to try to grab hold of the helicopters’ rudders.

    And also interview footage US troops explaining that some of the South Vietnamese parents were literally throwing their infants at them in the hope that the American troops would take their babies out of Vietnam.]

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  21. Tee says:

    When i moved from the NE four years ago, I made it a point to move to a predominately white town in the south. I love it here. On the weekends I walk in a local park, shop, and enjoy my time.

    I purposely wear bright, pretty colors,and wear my hair down. Most importantly, I smile.

    I once locked my keys in the car, and two
    gentlemen tried unsuccessfully to unlock it. Even though I was two blocks away from home, they stayed with me until road-side assistance showed up.

    I like being feminine, and I make no apologies for it. I know for me it makes life better. When I moved here, it allowed me to lay aside my battle armor.

    I’m finding that a lot of the NB men here tend to be attentive to lady-like behavior.

  22. Karen says:

    Ladies,

    Khadija stated it more succinctly that I could have:

    “A woman having feminine skills PLUS 21st century freedom of movement in the US is an extremely powerful combination!”

    Your most powerful asset is literally your femininity. Healthy, heterosexual men are “hardwired” to want to help and protect ladies. PERIOD.

    It is a timeless fact. It has continued to be proven true to me in my personal life and I urge any woman who wants to move on to incorporate this in their own lives if not already present (that of being a lady and being feminine).

    Thank you Khadija for this forum to discuss theses issues. Things will become more difficult in the U.S. economy, it is vital that we, AA BW, engender men of the global village to want to protect us versus to disregard us.

    • MissASP says:

      This is very true! Any bw who has the opportunity to become more feminine should! Unfortunately, a lot of bw live in areas where femininity=being taken advantage of (being raped, killed, mugged, etc.)! But those of us who don’t live in these places should use our feminine card 24/7!

  23. JaliliMaster says:

    Re: Monique, I was disgusted by her fowl behaviour at that awards ceremony were she….actually…..raised…up….her….gown….to…show…the….photogs…….her………hairy….legs! It made the news in the UK. That was the first time most of them were hearing about Monique. I can tell you that the general opinion here was embarrassment, for her. What offended me about what she did was her actions, it was the motive behind it that git me somewhat riled. She has low self-esteem. She knows that she projects a certain image. But misery loves company. So instead of letting it just be Monique, she tried to turn it into a BW issue. She knows that at this point in time, any image any individual BW puts out there is applied to the rest of us, especially if it is negative behaviour. She knew what most people would think when she raised u her gown. She wanted to take BW images down, and ensure that people thought of BW as low as she believes people think of her. Just because she is a BW doesn’t mean she might not feel that she has a stake in BW having negative images. It is the same deal with all those “black folks come bigger” types, or those BW that continue to insist on lying that BW are “naturally predisposed” to be obese.

    They don’t want it to be an issue about their own weight. So they instead try to turn it around and say it’s not them, it is because they are Black. So they intentionally want the image of BW to be that of an obese woman, so that when they walk by, it wouldn’t be an obese Black woman that people see, but just the everyday, normal, average Black woman. I notice that these also seem to be the same women who continue to mock BM when they date obese trailer park trash, yet want these same BM to date obese hood folks!

    On being feminine, I never understand when I hear AA women saying how European men are better, etc. My experience with American men has pretty much been the same with British and other European men. The fact of the matter is that if the image of BW continues to be one of harsh, aggressive, loud, unfeminine, etc, men wouldn’t think of treating you with chivalry. Many times, it may not even be intentional. Sometimes, people seeing you as a woman involves more than just having female organs! It annoys me when I hear BW (and this is most common among AA women), say that Black female femininity is different from the femininity of non-Black women. So I’m supposed to believe that White, Latina, Asian (be it Chinese, Japanese etc, Indian, Arab/Middle Easter etc) women have one type of femininity, and then Black women have a different type? This is only said by women who don’t feel feminine, so, once again, try to make it about all BW as opposed to just them lacking femininity. They want the standards of proper behaviour and decorum to be lowered to accommodate their uncouth manners.

    When it comes to BM liking “thick” women, I agree. Where my agreement stops is in many AA women’s definition of “thick”. What the word “thick” means, I real English, is voluptuous. It is not just BM that like such women. There are BM that like them curvier, athletic, slim etc, men have different tastes. The same applies for WM, AM, LM, etc. Most BM definition of thick is Beyonce. She has a toned body. Let’s not pretend that there are hordes of BW walking around, calling themselves thick , that are Beyonces shape/size. To know what a man is really attracted to/interested in dating, look at who he is with when he has achieved. I would believe that AA men like big women if the most successful AA men were with predominantly bigger women. That is not the case. Even the ones who would date the ‘big girls’ when he was in the hood and broke, when he makes money, all of a sudden, he get’s someone a bit more slender. Previously, he thought that he might only be able to get a certain type, but became he has now made some extra change, he sees his original choice as “settling”.
    Women do the same thing. They would lose weight and then dump their ‘average’ or overweight boyfriend/husband, because they now think they can do better. I’ve said it before and I will repeat it here. If AA women were as okay with being obese as some of them claim, one wouldn’t always hear them complaining that it is only (or mainly) the overweight men, or men that they are otherwise not physically attracted to that want to date them. On a site recently (when I make my point most of you will figure out who I’m talking about), someone sent in a YouTube video of a WM/BW couple. The man was blonde and slim, the woman was very overweight. The video also had pictures of them from some about three years ago when they just started dating. At the time, she was much slimmer. The person who sent in the video (she is not the actual person in the clip) wrote that the blog host should post the video so that other BW could see that just because they are overweight/big, it doesn’t mean that slim, attractive men are not interested in them. In my opinion, the man in the video just looked like a regular guy. He was attractive enough, but just okay. But the woman who wrote the letter kept on going on about how he was blonde and had blue eyes, and how this was proof that obese BW, to put it quite simply, did not have to settle for obese or otherwise unattractive non-BM if they were dating IR.

    Fortunately, the blog host noticed it, and tried her best to politely let the woman know that not every woman would consider the man in the video as some male Adonis. I noticed the woman’s hypocrisy, that just like many other BW who decide that they will ‘expand their horizons’, they, on one hand, want to pretend that being overweight is not going to hinder their chances, while on the other hand, expressing disdain at the thought of dating overweight men.

    About a year and a half ago, there was a BW that organised a mixer so that professional BW could meet professional WM who were interested in serious relationships. The event was a success, in the sense that a lot of people, both men and women attended. But that was where the success ended. The BW that had attended were all very impressed with the calibre of men there. They expected that it would be professional but physically unappealing men present. It was the opposite. The men on the other all had the same thing to say. They said that while they enjoyed themselves and the company of the women in attendance, they didn’t understand why all of the women were just so big! The organiser had just publicised the mixer, but only professional were allowed to come, so that people could meet others on “their level”. I remember that it became a huge issue in the blogosphere and many IR-minded BW were offended, that why should their weight be an issue. All this while saying that they would walk out if they attended such an event and the WM they saw there where the types that they believed were only interested because they “couldn’t get a WW”!

    And finally, I agree with you Khadija, that if WW feel it is not in their interest for BW to have positive image, or that it is in their interest for BW to have a negative image, they would have no problem upholding it. People should know that most of the casting directors in Hollywood are WW. Look at the cast of Glee. Look at any show featuring a Black female character. There are certain powers that e that only want a certain image of BW to be out there. And in UK, it is the same. Other parts of Europe tend to be different though. In UK, they are much more blatant. If they want a character that is attractive and she is Black, they will get a mixed-race actress to play it. The only tine one ever sees Black actresses on the British screen is if she is being stereotyped. It is improving somewhat, but the main reason people don’t notice it as much is because the same thing is done with the men. If you are a good looking, mixed-race (Black) man/boy in the UK, you will get on t.v very easily. If you are just average, mixed-race or not, no one cares. Many AA men think that they will have access to all races of women if they move to Europe. They are disappointed when they find out that it only applies to biracial (Black) men who are visibly attractive. The counter is that biracial women don’t get play the way they do in America, amongst the BM. They are pretty much, almost exclusively, interested in non-BW. The only time a biracial woman would get on t.v is if (1) she is overweight and/or she is of average looks, so they just cast her as any other BW, or (2)if she is slim AND she is also good looking, then they will cast her next to a much darker skinned, and always much bigger woman, because to them, it would make her more attractive to White viewers.

    Two young Black actresses were once cast on a soap (Coronation Street). One of them was mixed race, although at the time, I thought she was a light skinned person. The other actress was dark skinned…and obese. These two people were supposed to play identical twins. The mixed race actress played the smart, sensible one, while the big, Black actress played, basically, a minstrel. She was loud, stupid, and was always ready to offer up some silly comment. What I noticed was that while the mixed-race actress became a regular, the Black actress was only there for a few weeks, and she had a very background role. The truth was that there was one role written for the mixed-race actress to play a Black person. But to make her more acceptable to viewers they had to create another character to be the ‘Black’ person, so that she would be the ‘better’ of the two. I don’t think White folks have realised how obvious they are when they pull such nonsense.

    There is another soap (Hollyoaks), which all the ‘Black’ characters are mixed-race, except their father (yes, all these Black characters are related, makes it easier to get rid of them at one go). This man is a drunkard, a gambler and a deadbeat. He has six children, all played by mixed-race actors/actresses. Three of them are from a Black woman (a character that was killed off after about two weeks, she said no more than three sentences). He had abandoned his wife previously. The other three are from WW, who was also a silly character, and they write her out after several months.

    The only soap in the UK that makes a proper effort is East Enders. The actually made an effort to cast a pretty Black actress in the role of some one that was meant to be a physically attractive character. Years ago, they were criticised for having very negative images of minorities, particularly Blacks, they obviously made an effort to improve.

    AA women should not think that BW in Europe are living in havens. The same negative stereotypes pervade the media here. The only difference is that in most cases, one’s ‘Blackness’ doesn’t get questioned because they choose to be different. Similarly, in Europe, any woman who acts like a lady gets treated like one, irrespective of her ethnic background.

    • NijaG says:

      Jalili,

      It was mostly East Enders I had time to watch a little bit when I was in England last December. I’ve definitely heard that the UK compared to other Western European countries are not considered as progressive in their media portrayal. However, I think they’re still a little ahead of the US.

      Although the correlation of the UK and USA shouldn’t be surprising. Afterall, in the US the influential settlers originated from Great Britain so their attitudes and mindsets tend to be similar.

      The Spanish & French governments had more of an assimilation mindset while the British where more separatist.

    • YMB says:

      To know what a man is really attracted to/interested in dating, look at who he is with when he has achieved. I would believe that AA men like big women if the most successful AA men were with predominantly bigger women.

      Exactly, as much as it is said that women are ultra competitive with each other for romantic partners, the exact same can be said of men- of all races. Successful men (and the unsuccessful ones, too) desire the same things other successful men have and desire. Even when they do not actually desire these things, they most often will not subject themselves to the kind of ridicule and disapproval that choosing things outside of the tastes of their peer group will bring.

      I will never forget seeing a postcard on Postsecret from a man who wrote that the love of his life was a fat woman but he wouldn’t be with her because his friends gave him a hard time about it. I have seen similar themes on message boards from time to time- men stating that they are legitimately attracted to overweight women but do not pursue them (except as jump offs) because they are not seen as socially acceptable.

      This doesn’t really fit in here but I was unable to post a reply to the comments about the amazing change in perception AW have experienced in the past few generations. I think it’s important to note that they have done this WITHOUT the assistance of mainstream media. They have become thought of as paragons of femininity and as unquestionably desirable marriage partners for non-AM without a single Asian supermodel (I suppose one could argue for Kimora Lee Simmons, but really, would anyone know who she was if she hadn’t married Russell Simmons), with even less representation in films and TV than BW (how many big time Asian actresses can you name besides Lucy Liu, who I haven’t seen in anything for several years now), and with lower percentages of them in the population.

      • YMB,

        You said, “This doesn’t really fit in here but I was unable to post a reply to the comments about the amazing change in perception AW have experienced in the past few generations. I think it’s important to note that they have done this WITHOUT the assistance of mainstream media. They have become thought of as paragons of femininity and as unquestionably desirable marriage partners for non-AM without a single Asian supermodel …, with even less representation in films and TV than BW …, and with lower percentages of them in the population.”

        THIS is one of several positive results (for AW) of AW individually marrying powerful, dominant, Alpha WM. This was discussed during the The More You Do This, The Less Desirable You’ll Look post, where it was mentioned:

        “MANY PROBLEMS WILL SOLVE THEMSELVES WHEN MORE BLACK WOMEN MARRY THE MOST POWERFUL MEN ON THE PLANET. THIS IS HOW ASIAN WOMEN GREATLY IMPROVED THEIR COLLECTIVE IMAGE.

        Finally, the long-term, permanent solution to the twin problems of: (1) African-American women’s negative public image and (2) the harmful public slander of Black women by Black men will only come about as more African-American women marry more of the most powerful, dominant men. For a very long time leading up to right now, White men have been the most powerful, dominant, Alpha men on this planet. It’s reasonable to expect them to remain the planet’s most powerful, Alpha men for the foreseeable future.

        This is the strategy that Asian women quietly and successfully carried out. These women did this to better their own individual circumstances, but it had the positive side effect of bettering their collective image. As increasing numbers of quality, prominent, powerful White men started marrying Asian women, suddenly Asian women started being perceived as increasingly desirable and attractive by other types of men.”

        Ladies, get moving!

        Peace, blessings and solidarity.

      • ak says:

        YMB:

        This doesn’t really fit in here but I was unable to post a reply to the comments about the amazing change in perception AW have experienced in the past few generations. I think it’s important to note that they have done this WITHOUT the assistance of mainstream media.

        Exactly YMB I have said this on other blogs before because a lot of black people especially the BW seem to equate being able to date quality men or marrying quality men with being plastered all over mainstream media’s TV and magazines in a positive and glowing light. I kept reminding people on other blogs that ‘Oh yeah? Well then how do you explain the success of Asian/Asian American women getting quality and/or wealthy men in their lives then?’ I haven’t seen Lucy Liu or anyone like her since the 1st Kill Bill and that feels like quite a while ago and the paparazzi don’t hound her it seems either (she’s either lucky or she really IS intimidating LOL).

    • ak says:

      Thank you thank you for tellin’ the people dem Jalilimaster! LOL LOL

      It’s true. There may be a bit of IR dating and IR marriages in Britain between BW and WM some among the Carribean origin BW (who have their silly hesitations & resistances like AA BW) but mostly among the African-origin BW, but in the media and television it is as pathetic as it is in the US.

      They feel like they’re throwing people a bone, and it’s like they’re not even doing that! Alot of WW over here have biracial/mixed-race children so they will put the children of WW on TV because they have a connection to them in some way and there is or probably be more biracial rather than fully black people in the UK anyway so…

  24. Lorie says:

    Slightly off-topic but I am concerned by the elevaton of Monique, who should be rejected as a role model for and representitive of sensible BW. First, she was Ms.Fat&Proud. After some impressive weight loss, she is now Ms.Hairy&Proud as well as Ms.FauxMarried&Proud. How many fools will she influence before she changes her mind? (Not me and hopefully, not us!)

    BTW, I’m looking into finishing school in London. I’m due for a vacation and would like to invest in my future while away. Also, thank you all for your comments as you’ve just dissuaded me from purchasing another fattening, overpriced mocha latte 🙂

    • MissASP says:

      Hey! Please visit my blog and leave some info about that finishing school! Sounds interesting.

    • Tracy says:

      Hi Lorie!

      Unfortuneately, a lot…I myself was a big fan of her “Phat Chance” beauty contests. When you are outside of the norm, as many bw are, and someone says “You are fine, flaws and all”, it is easy to get sucked in…

      Couple that with the new Fat Movement that attacks anything and anyone that suggests that it is wrong to morbidly obese (they call it Fatism – SMH) and you have this bundle of very dangerous “love”.

      What their followers are not seeing is that Monique, Fatty Girls Inc., and their ilk are running a con game. Monique and Gabby are being paid well by self hating “others” (TylOprah) to keep the image of masculine sexless bw alive, and the Fat Acceptance movement is headed by ww who are not actually obese, but around a size 12-16. And they make it a point to tell you that, lest you confuse them with your fat loser butts.

      Smoke and mirrors, ladies. Get that weight off and lose the blinders!!

      • rainebeaux says:

        Tracy, it’s interesting you brought up the FA movement: if I hadn’t thoroughly examined my own circumstances* and then discovered BWE/IR blogs, I most likely would’ve bought whole hog into said movement. Why? No hope at the time…that blasted desire to belong, or something…yeah, shameful. You read up on it long enough, and you’ll also notice that many already have SOs/spouses…I DON’T…and it’ll stay that way until I shrink. Not looking to date, you understand (can’t do that til year three–see below), but I’m just saying. Doesn’t apply to us, given the image angle…but yeah, straight-up con, that. As you mentioned before, bw get some sense in this department, and we become competition (“oh snap, the horror!” lol.)

        the five-year plan I mentioned waay upthread isn’t self-punishment per se, but rather undoing 20 years’ worth of indoctrination (and, in many cases, learning what I was never taught in the first place) in a **very** short time. At 32, I’m feeling a tad panicked and apparently have misplaced my femininity in the process, among other things.

        *most recently, the “Think About Your Own Circumstances” post has stayed on my mind and let me know that I wasn’t crazy.

        • Tracy says:

          Hey Rain!!

          “If I hadn’t thoroughly examined my own circumstances* and then discovered BWE/IR blogs, I most likely would’ve bought whole hog into said movement”

          Oh Lord! Another me in the midst!! LOL!! I was in the same boat too girl. Evia’s post about wm complaining about bw being waay to big (at a mixer!!) and my personal dealings with the FA chicks turned me right around. IMHO, when there are serious concerns about discrimination (refusal to hire, or housing, medical concerns) then yes, a group like this would be needed. But from my personal experience, these are just a bunch of silly girls that couldn’t get up the rope in gym class and didn’t get asked to prom, so the rest of the world has to suffer with them. Got no time for that mess…

          Rain, it won’t take you five years…now that you see the light, things will start happening for you, you will start moving and changing and growing. I started in my 40’s, and I can’t believe how much I have let go and unlearned. I think that anyone that is leaving the “Matrix” renews quickly.

          Not to rush you tho…take your time and enjoy your journey!!

  25. lois says:

    Thanks Khadija for your kinds words. You are correct about the fall of Saigon. During that period I was a kid and I do remember the news footages. Those news footages reminded me of a horror movie or an end of times type of movie, except that was reality.

  26. Karen,

    You’re welcome! And thank you for your kind words; I truly appreciate it. You said, “Things will become more difficult in the U.S. economy, it is vital that we, AA BW, engender men of the global village to want to protect us versus to disregard us.”

    True. The bottom line is that having a quality male protector and provider means just that—having an extra layer of protection for oneself and one’s children.
    _______________________________________

    JaliliMaster,

    You said, “Just because she is a BW doesn’t mean she might not feel that she has a stake in BW having negative images. It is the same deal with all those “black folks come bigger” types, or those BW that continue to insist on lying that BW are “naturally predisposed” to be obese.”

    You’re correct. There are BW who have a self-interested stake in certain negative images of BW becoming normalized.

    You said, “They don’t want it to be an issue about their own weight. So they instead try to turn it around and say it’s not them, it is because they are Black. So they intentionally want the image of BW to be that of an obese woman, so that when they walk by, it wouldn’t be an obese Black woman that people see, but just the everyday, normal, average Black woman.”

    I hadn’t thought of it this way before, but I believe you’re correct. You’re pointing out the various self-interested “investments” many BW have in certain negative imgages. [Similar to the earlier point you made about some BW’s self-interested reasons for promoting OOW, single parenthood, and man-sharing.]
    _________________________________________

    Lorie,

    You said, “Slightly off-topic but I am concerned by the elevaton of Monique, who should be rejected as a role model for and representitive of sensible BW.”

    ITA.

    You said, “First, she was Ms.Fat&Proud. After some impressive weight loss, she is now Ms.Hairy&Proud as well as Ms.FauxMarried&Proud.”

    {shaking my head}

    You said, “How many fools will she influence before she changes her mind?”

    That’s what’s wrong with BW rallying around and elevating her. It serves to normalize the dysfunctions that she brags about being involved in.
    _____________________________________________

    Lois,

    You’re welcome!

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  27. ***Note to Readers***

    In making this new site the kind of project that’s sustainable for me over the long-run, I’ve had to streamline how I handle certain things. The comments section is one of them. What this means is that I’ll give substantive responses to those folks who enter the conversations early (as I did across the board at the previous blog).

    After each post is a couple of days old, I’ll generally continue to publish new comments from readers. (That meet the commenting guidelines as set forth at the previous blog—those who are unfamiliar can read the comment “box” at the previous blog.)

    But, after a each post is a couple of days old, I generally WON’T continue responding to new comments.

    [In other words, I’ll continue to publish comments to this post, but I’m not going to reply to anymore comments in this thread. FYI.]

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  28. tertiaryanna says:

    Karen R.

    . I mentioned the idea of BW being able to stay home full-time to take care of their children. This was not stated as a mandate on my part, but as an OPTION. The host, a black middle-aged woman put me on BLAST and stated with rage and anger in her voice “I get so sick of these BW looking for someone to take care of them…” Now for many of my friends who happen to be white who are college-educated (some with law and medical school degrees) the idea of staying home full-time as a wife and mother is the norm. It is part of the package of being protected and provided for and it is part of the feminine ideal for middle and upper-middle classes.”

    I was cleaning the attic and found some old papers from some elderly relatives. They were sisters from the 1940’s, and the forms listed the husband/wife occupation. The women were listed as homemakers. They didn’t have children either, so this wasn’t because of daycare or anything, and I would have considered them working class/bordering lower middle class. They died in the early part of this past decade, so it wasn’t that long ago.

    But somewhere along the way, we have been told that it’s unfitting for BW, even though a BW woman from an earlier generation would have seen that lifestyle as completely normal. I do work, so I’m not saying it’s wrong to have an occupation, but it’s just so damaging to tell BW that a commonly valued cultural norm is somehow wrong when we do it. It’s like, selective remembering of history, but only in the way that causes the least gain.

    • MissASP says:

      Very true! This is why I say that bw should start identifying more with our gender than our race. That’s the only way that bw as a whole will gain respect. But I really don’t think that we could get all bw “on board”. This is why those of us with this kind of common sense must set ourselves apart from the “other” bw like Monique, Gabby, etc. These women bring our imagine down even more! That’s why ww who wouldn’t even consider themselves racist love them! They make them as a whole look better. We HAVE to get people (especially high quality males) to know that all bw aren’t like that. They must look at individual bw and see an intelligent, classy, feminine woman. Not a stereotypical black woman.

      • tertiaryanna says:

        ” bw should start identifying more with our gender than our race.

        MissASP,

        I would just give a caution here: just because BW should understand an issue by how it affects them as women, doesn’t mean that they do. One of the problems with negative imagery/mentalities growing so rapidly in the Black construct is that BW were helping to feed and water these negative views. Also, many girls model femininity after what they see women do. And other women tend to fall in line with what they see in each other. So BW are often complicit in the systems that don’t help them. For many of us, it was mainly BW, and not BM that steered us in backwards directions.

        This caution applies to all women. A close look at the Feminist movement illustrates how women can be color blind when there’s work to be done, but then revert back to the privileges of their race when the work’s finished.

        You’re definitely wise for your years, so I hope you can take this advice in the spirit it’s given: be careful of how you publicly offer support, IRL. Be sure that someone is really your ally before you make a blanket statement to claim them, because there’s really no indication that women as a group will serve you better than Blacks as a group will. I’m not telling you to be distrustful of everyone, but use discernment towards everyone. Your approval is valuable: it’s fine to use it sparingly.

        • MissASP says:

          Yes, I understand what you’re saying. I was talking about bw and the way we think. We should think of ourselves as women first, black people second. I think that this will help us more in our lives and the quest to live well. Thanks for your insight! <3

    • Robyn says:

      There’s one problem with your comparison though – those pictures were from the 1940s, where it was firmly understood that the place of a woman was in the home. It is not analogous to today’s situation, where women choose to stay home vs. work. In those days a man provided, and his wife was expected to keep house. Now, it’s up to you to decide whether you want to be a stay at home mom or not. That personally does not appeal to me just because of my personality (I’d get bored and miserable – I’d have to work at least part time or run my own business from home), but that option should be there for those BW who have no problems at all being a full time stay at home mom.

      • tertiaryanna says:

        Robyn,

        Respectfully, I think you missed the point of my post. For the record: I work. So I am in no way trying to stir up a “Mommy War” issue.

        You are correct – today, women can choose to stay home or work. But if BW are being told that being a housewife/SAHM it’s a demeaning choice for BW – and no other women, then there is a serious problem.

        White women are the primary beneficiaries of Affirmative Action, their labor, education and pay rates are above BW and BM. So if any group of women has a loss of status by not working, it’s them. Yet, they’re not told that they’re less White by choosing to stay at home. They’re definitely not told that they’re less female. It’s never, ever phrased as “Why these WW want a man to care for them.” They may be called unfeminist, but definitely not unwomanly.

        So BW are getting censured for deciding to stay at home, then it’s not a choice, it’s a “choice”. As in, not societally sanctioned by other BW.

        But why? That’s my point. If other women are allowed to make that choice w/o compromising their ethnicities, then why not BW? Why is it that only BW are not “real women” if they choose to say at home?

        I could maybe understand it, if historically, BW were told that being at home was unwomanly. The point of my anecdote was that we weren’t told that. Yes, a lot of our foremothers did work, but that was out of economic necessity, or even the war (no men to run the factories,) not because of a definition of femininity that said that it’s only ok to stay home if a WW does it.

        So why is it that today, Black femininity is being defined in a way that’s not supported by any other definition of femininity — especially since our mothers and grandmothers wouldn’t have supported or even understood today’s definitions? Why are these BW choosing to “unwoman” each other over something that has been one of the defining characteristics of the female role in the home?

        Again, I work, and this is my personal choice. I want to be clear on that, so you understand that I’m not saying it’s an invalid decision to work.

        But I think it’s incredibly damaging for BW to be told that the stereotypical markers of womanhood are things we need to bend over backwards to avoid. Especially since we’re not bending over backwards to dismantle the patriarchy that enforces those gender behaviors. So we’re essentially setting ourselves up for failure: teaching ourselves not to act like/reap the benefits of being women, but not taking away the social negatives that come when women act like men.

        I hope that makes sense. This has nothing to do with whether or not anyone personally chooses to stay home or to work. It has to do with how BW as a society are stripping each other of our Black Womanhood when we choose to do things that have always been called womanly. It has to do with how BW are holding each other to a standard of womanhood that no other group of women seem to follow. Let’s be very clear about the implications here: we’re not changing the penalties for these new standards. So there’s no reason to think BW as a group will escape paying the price.

        • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

          “But if BW are being told that being a housewife/SAHM it’s a demeaning choice for BW – and no other women, then there is a serious problem….

          So why is it that today, Black femininity is being defined in a way that’s not supported by any other definition of femininity — especially since our mothers and grandmothers wouldn’t have supported or even understood today’s definitions? Why are these BW choosing to “unwoman” each other over something that has been one of the defining characteristics of the female role in the home?

          But I think it’s incredibly damaging for BW to be told that the stereotypical markers of womanhood are things we need to bend over backwards to avoid. Especially since we’re not bending over backwards to dismantle the patriarchy that enforces those gender behaviors. So we’re essentially setting ourselves up for failure: teaching ourselves not to act like/reap the benefits of being women, but not taking away the social negatives that come when women act like men. ”

          For me, there has been an undertone of unworthiness/otherness regarding BW and this issue. For example when Karen said:

          “The host, a black middle-aged woman put me on BLAST and stated with rage and anger in her voice “I get so sick of these BW looking for someone to take care of them…”

          “a BW with a degree married to a neuro-surgeon is working. The older BW will suggest such things as “you don’t want him to think you’re taking advantage of him”

          It feels to me that they are saying BW are different from other women and are unworthy of being taken care of.

          I think that regarding SAHMs, being cared for well should be the minimum agreement, bc running a household and taking care of children is a lot of work – and its not as if it comes with retirement benefits or disability/unemployment insurance. If I had to take care of a house, children, meet my husband’s needs, and work full time – I may as well reserve my bed at the insane asylum now.

          To go a step further regarding the neurosurgeon comment it feels like BW must constantly prove themselves by demonstrating they can do it by themselves even within a marriage. That comment feels like its ok to have a provider as a husband – as long as you can clearly and consistently demonstrate that you don’t actually need for him to provide.

          Which sounds insane, but I am clueless as to how/why this happened is happening. It would be one thing if these women were saying have a contingency plan in case the marriage failed or in case you were abused/exploited, but that’s not the tone I am feeling.

          It also makes me think about other crazy conditional situations that I think are based in unworthiness which are placed on BW such as you can have a relationship – not as you are, but only after you have looked within, done ex amount of workshops, prayed for x amount of years – and after you have shown yourself worthy by jumping through all those hoops – then you are ready for relationship/marriage.

          It is not as if the so called BC has these preps built into the culture, but there are all these false tests and hoops that BW have to jump through to prove that they are ok/good enough to be/have/ do – what others just do.

          • YMB says:

            Oshun/Aphrodite,

            It makes perfect sense in the context that BW are being groomed to take over the roles that BM will no longer fulfill. BW are now thought of as the primary breadwinners and protectors. I would wonder how many black SAHMs there are compared to how many BW have chronically unemployed stay at home (in)significant others. In this “help a brotha out” culture, I’m sure this is quite a common scenario.

            It also makes perfect sense given the “scarcity, hunt and peck” predicament that BW find themselves in when they limit themselves to BM only. Theirs is the position of abject beggars who will do anything to entice a BM to stay. “You don’t want to have to give up having outside relationships? We can have an open relationship. Of course that will only apply to you, baby. You don’t have money for an engagement ring? I’ll take care of that, too.”

            Even if no one says it as flatly as this, the prevailing attitude is that BW ARE undeserving of the traditional benefits women have enjoyed in marriage and better consider themselves lucky if they are able to convince any caliber of man to marry them.

            Now for why other BW go along with this, I think it’s three-pronged. First the defeminization BW are subjected to. Secondly, single parenthood has become the sad standard among BW. Advocating being a SAHMs as a valid choice for BW flies in the face of the proud angry denial many BW have about parenting needing to be a two-parent job. Lastly, it serves as another enticement to snag reticent BM partners: “What, that BW wants to be a stay at home mother, living off her man?! I would never take advantage of my man like that.” In other words, pick me! pick me!

            In modern black culture, it is an alien concept that a man would take pride in and enjoy being able to provide well enough for his wife that she could stay at home, and that he would see value in her doing so.

          • MissASP says:

            “Black culture”, if there is such a thing, is just stupid, flat out. It’s a weird, ghetto culture that takes everything NORMAL and turns it around into something creepy. Idc if you think I “hate being black” for saying this, it’s the truth! This is why I try to identify with gender over race! What does the bc have to offer women like me who want MORE out of life?? NOTHING!

        • Robyn says:

          No, I got the gist of your post. The attitudes of bw have changed, because many bm have stopped being men. So along those lines, the SAHM concept became an anathema by necessity – if a woman stayed home, how could she provide for her kids? I think therein lies the genesis of this anomaly. Women picking up the slack of men.

          For the record, I never implied that you were a stay at home mom. Honestly, the thought never even crossed my mind. I think that me stating my preferences caused the confusion.

          Peace 🙂

  29. ann says:

    Monique’s good friend is Steve Harvey, need I saw more?
    They both are hustling for themselves.

    • Amanda says:

      The thing is we need to make our own images that counteract theres.

      • MissASP says:

        Exactly! Women like Kerry Washington and Zoë Saldana enforce this. Notice how they’re not that popular though. Hmmmmmm?

        • Tracy says:

          I think that the problem is that bw are still feeding on junk. Folks will flock to see and support Mo and Co. , but suitable BW actresses as Kerry and Zoe have a hard time getting a following.

          I blame this on the bc/bw ‘s backward thinking – she is too (take your pick) light, straight haired, together, not real enough…so she can’t be a correct representation of “real” bw.

          We need to start supporting actresses that represent the positive side of bw – Hollywood is about money, and if they are not bringing in dollar, forget it.

  30. YMB says:

    There was an event at my place of employment for MLK Jr’s birthday where Eric Michael Dyson gave a speech. At one point he imitated Michelle Obama disagreeing with a reporter at a press conference. He did this by pantomiming removing his earrings and shoes and gesturing to go outside, as if The First Lady, a Harvard Law-educated professional and cultured black woman, would not be capable of having a disagreement without it becoming a physical altercation. And the mostly black female audience ate the propagation of the stereotype of THEMSELVES as uncouth ghetto brawlers right up. SMH.

    Anyway, it’s absolutely reasonable that BW should have the freedom to be stay at home mothers if they choose, just as women of other races have done. It’s commonly accepted that this will be an option for white women. To the extent they are now demanding they be accommodated in the workplace whenever they choose to return to the workforce. Black women fools who parrot the minority of WW who preach that marriage is oppression, should take note how few WW are willingly choosing to live that life.Those of you who are interested in one day becoming stay at home moms may want to make note of Mocha Moms, an online support group for SAHMs of color. http://www.mochamoms.org/ I heard about them from a black SAHM friend.

    Instead of thinking that they are losing some part of themselves by making changes that will make them more desirable partners, BW should examine the inherent value of these changes. Being carefully groomed, losing excess weight to look good and be healthier, developing a classy, pleasant demeanor- how are any of these things a sacrifice? These are things one should want for oneself regardless of whether one intends to find a partner or not. And of course there is the aspect of when one is seeking a romantic partner- do you want to appeal to 5% of men or do you want to enjoy wide appeal among men? It’s really pretty simple. Black women can keep chanting these strong black woman and only a dog loves a bone but they should catch a clue and observe that by and large even black men are not singing these tunes any more.

    • MissASP says:

      Thanks for the link! We must realize that there are bw who just don’t want these things for themselves. They think that the ghetto, baby mama lifestyle is “normal”. Some even like it. We must help those who want to help themselves!

  31. JaliliMaster says:

    YMB, yes, I’ve noticed how black male comedians always resort to telling that same ‘joke’, imitating uncouth behaviour and equating it with how a particular professional BW in the public eye would really behave if things got heated. That comedian, Bernie Mac, did the exact same thing at some predominantly republican event, in reference to Condoleeza Rice. Pres Bush was there, as well as Condi and many other politician types. The whole hall started laughing when he did it. You could see that Ms Rice wasn’t laughing as much as anyone else. There was a general uncomfortable feeling amongst the audience when he first said it, as if they weren’t sure whether or not they could laugh. So even these white republicans knew that he was mocking someone that was part of a group that he wasn’t (i.e he is a BM, it wasn’t BM he was mocking). They didn’t think, “hey, he’s Black, so it’s okay if I laugh at the joke”. Many of them where looking at George Bush’s direction and to see whether Condi was amused or not before they felt it would be appropriate for them to laugh. I’ve also noticed that whenever a Black male comedian is invited to any predominantly White event, he is never as bold as the White comedians at telling jokes roasting the politicians present, which is what he was hired to do. He even leaves the few BM in the audience alone. Most times, his target is the BW present. If the present Sect. Of State had been a BW, anytime a political function is held, any Black male comedian that is called would have made her the main target of his ‘jokes’. That way, they get to be seen to be making fun of the administration without them having to mock the head of said administration because he’s some version of Black. As the most visible BW in the White House, Michelle ends up being the one at the receiving end of it.

    Notice that these same comedians never make these sort of jokes about professional BM in the public eye. I’ve told BW time and again that BM are not part of the ‘in-group’ in terms of telling potentially offensive jokes about BW. The only ‘in-group’ of which they are part is that of BM. Yet notice how anytime they tell an insulting joke stereotyping BW, they just say BW. But when BM are the target, notice what they do. They no longer refer to them as BM. They now instead use the n-word. This is really only to set the males who they are mocking apart from the general view of BM, so that it is ‘n—as’ that the audience is laughing at as opposed to all BM.

    • NijaG says:

      Jalili,

      Great analysis. I don’t watch much comedy, especially black comedy. So, some of the much subtler nuances may go right over my head with the little bit I do manage to catch.

      I do know that I’ve always felt some of these BM comediennes tell their BW jokes with a certain malicious glee. Then if you’re offended and upset, they try to dismiss your concerns and make it seem like you’re an uptight b**ch.

    • NijaG says:

      Great analysis!!!

      I’ve never being much into stand-up comedy, especially black comedy. It most times ends up being very vulgar and crude. Since I don’t watch much, when I do manage to catch a little, some of the more subtler nuances you mentioned go over my head, although in my gut I know something is up.

      Some of these BM comediennes have a certain vibe of malicious glee when it comes to their BW routine.

    • MissASP says:

      Bw must look out for other like-minded bw. Not ghetto bw or any bm. The favor will not be returned from ghetto/bm-identified bw or bm at all.

  32. Something to Say says:

    @pointandclick: Your previous comment

    “You are correct. Most people in the U.S. are unaware that Asian women had a very poor image in the the U.S.not so long ago – just 60 years ago, actually.

    After WWII, and then the Korean War right after, most Americans’ perception of Asian women was based on the prostitutes and unfortunate war refugees that were woman.

    Depending on who you spoke to, Asian women were seen as unclean, immoral, unfeeling, thieves, greedy, duplicitous, unstable, etc., etc.

    Their collective image was much worse than the image of black women today.

    I think all of you are aware of how Asian women are perceived today in the U.S., particularly by white men, and by a lesser extent, black men.

    This staggering turnaround is quite amazing when you consider fully how maligned they were a fairly short time ago.

    Whatever you believe to be the reasons for the 180-degree turn in how American men see Asian women, there is no denying the result.”

    **********************************

    Absolutely spot on – This is true, and is well worth keeping in mind when thinking about the defemenization of black women. The dire situation black women find themselves in as a group can be turned around.

    It’s no secret that both American and European men view Asian women in a very favorable light now, and Asian women have leveraged that in terms of securing excellent husbands/life partners. In fact, many white men will go so far as to state a preference for Asian women over white women.

    And, since I know many AW/WM couples here on the West Coast, I can tell you that those Asian wives run the household they form after the marriage with almost absolute authority. They are the iron fist in the velvet glove. They don’t raise their voices or throw things, they simply prevail using their femininity and their husbands’ resultant desire to keep them happy.

    Most BW think that if they adopt a more feminine way of dress, of speaking, of comportment, etc., that they are somehow ceding power to other parties in whatever interactions they have. The paradox, of course, is that by rejecting femininity, they discard the incredible power that femininity has over most men. This is of extremely high value and BW just toss it away, either carelessly or intentionally. Men literally cannot help but respond positively to women that possess highly feminine traits – their DNA tells them to do so.

    If you take that incredible power, and combine it with the full spectrum of opportunities modern women now have in this world, it is a very compelling mix.

    As Khadija correctly said, “A woman having feminine skills PLUS 21st century freedom of movement in the US is an extremely powerful combination!”

    I would have to agree with that statement – both items separately are quite powerful in their own right; combined, they bring an energy and power that is quite impressive.

    • MissASP says:

      Yes, and the bw who know this MUST begin to use it using the many links provided by me and others in this post. The sad part is that most bw will never know because they don’t care to. So when bw like us begin to live very well, they will try to knock us down along with jealous bm. These people are losers and we must ignore them with class! 🙂

    • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

      “Most BW think that if they adopt a more feminine way of dress, of speaking, of comportment, etc., that they are somehow ceding power to other parties in whatever interactions they have. The paradox, of course, is that by rejecting femininity, they discard the incredible power that femininity has over most men. This is of extremely high value and BW just toss it away, either carelessly or intentionally.”

      I feel that for a lot of younger BW, they are shortchanged out of that option- to reject or accept. I think some BW, maybe a fair number, are unaware. The so called BC has perverted a lot and I think this area is no exception.

      Feminine charm seems to be something passed on/cultivated from mother/older women to daughter/younger ones similar to man vetting. My mother was the one who taught me the most about things of this nature. Not saying that I didn’t pick up extra tips along the way, but she and my aunts were the ones who were on me about clothing, proper undergarments, speech, the way I was walking/sitting etc…

      It seems like there is a three fold attack: groom BW to assume masculine roles in the community, then sabotage/smother/destroy her attempts/expressions of femininity e.g. the comment Magenta made about safety/keeping your head in the books, or that Tracey and some other posters made regarding weight, shaving legs and makeup… are all things I have heard.

      I think a lot of BG get this out of the gate. Then there is the odd I am not sure what the right word is, but on one hand a young woman who expresses an interest in say, for example makeup, instead of being guided in a way that is age appropriate may be labeled “fast” and all that goes along with that, but on the other hand you have BW who as Rhonda stated can’t determine the difference between feminine/polished and trashy – but trashy in some black circles is what is considered the norm.

    • tertiaryanna says:

      Most BW think that if they adopt a more feminine way of dress, of speaking, of comportment, etc., that they are somehow ceding power to other parties in whatever interactions they have. The paradox, of course, is that by rejecting femininity, they discard the incredible power that femininity has over most men. This is of extremely high value and BW just toss it away, either carelessly or intentionally.

      This is why it’s so toxic when the loudest voices in the room are the ones telling BW to not be feminine. Those voices permeate deeper than you know: I’ve heard them. It’s literally a poison to our young women and girls. When you’ve got a little more experience, you can see how your actions are judged in comparison to other women, but when you’re being taught that from the get-go, it wastes valuable time.

      The worst part is, it’s not even the severe cases that’s a problem, because when those negative images are so pervasive, even slightly off behavior can be damaging. I feel sometimes that BW may need to remember the “work twice as hard” adage when it comes to these issues, the more the negative ones get airtime.

      • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

        “This is why it’s so toxic when the loudest voices in the room are the ones telling BW to not be feminine. Those voices permeate deeper than you know: I’ve heard them. It’s literally a poison to our young women and girls. When you’ve got a little more experience, you can see how your actions are judged in comparison to other women, but when you’re being taught that from the get-go, it wastes valuable time. ”

        I wanted to co – sign this. Receiving these messages from others was crazy making for me. I got everything that I learned about femininity from my mother and the women in my family, but when I started interacting with others I was bombarded with so much to the contrary all the time – from everywhere and I wasn’t old enough/mature enough to critically examine/see the big picture/question/reject/filter any of the messages I was getting – it made me crazy.

        It was like the conversation we had last year on Muslim Bushido regarding BW not dating as young women or being brainwashed into accepting anything- when everyone else is doing/saying that – that is hard to go against- alone.

        I can recall many times being told point blank in response to some of my behaviors that I was weak and needed to toughen my shell. I think some of my behaviors actually drew DBR/predator types to me because of the perception that those behaviors meant I was weak/easy.

        Also feminine grooming for me is deeply connected to self care and having self esteem. There have been times when that was attacked in the fashion of – that is vain, sinful, selfish as well…

        But the sore spot for me are the more direct putdowns/insults I have received as an adult regarding this type of self care and to a lesser extent behavior. I feel like on one hand I should be beyond this, but I have real issues emotionally processing the digs and shutdowns that I have gotten from others in this area.

        And the thing is that they have not only come from the BC, but from nonBW. I can kind of work through the comments from the BC now because I can see that things are abnormal there, but when these messages come from nonblacks its bewildering. I don’t know if there is some kind of weird privilege/domination being exercised/asserted here or what.

        At any rate, if it were not for my mom and the women in my family I would probably be much worse off. I know that the people I have had run ins with over this are related to someone – mother, aunt, cousin, father, brother and have contact/influence with other BG/BW etc and so I know they are spewing the same garbage to them. So its not impossible to imagine that there is a large section of BGs who have been cut off at the knees around this.

  33. Rhonda says:

    Just some thoughts on the many thought-provoking comments for this post:

    (1) American women, regardless of her race, equate being sexy with looking slutty. There is a lot that one can learn from French women on how to be truly sexy. Check out the website for the books French Chic and Slim by Anne Barone. There is a lot of good stuff there.

    (2) If you want to lose weight–which is, surprisingly, easy to do, but does require a lifestyle change–you have to chuck Conventional Wisdom on how to lose weight into the garbage bin. CW tells you that one must eat low-fat foods and lots of carbs; eat up to six meals a day; do lots of aerobic exercise daily for long periods of time and intensely; eat soy food products and lot of polyunsaturated (vegetable, nut, and seed oils) fats. Well, the aforementioned will keep you fat, and make you fatter.

    Lifestyle change:

    –Eat only real foods; do not eat any processed foods, except traditionally processed ones, like butter, olive oil, etc.

    –Cook/prepare all your meals

    –Eat only when you are hungry, and eat to full

    –Eat low-carb or very low-carb (carbs make you hungry)

    –Eat full-fat foods; eat lots of saturated fats; saturated fats satiate

    –You’ll find that when you eat low-carb or very low-carb and high-saturated fats, and medium protein, that you will naturally go longer periods of time between meals; the fewer meals, with longer hours between eating times, will not cause your insulin to spike, thus causing you to not be hungry so often (Since I reduced my carb intake, my eating time between meals, when I am truly hungry, is 12 to 18 hours; I usually eat one to two meals a day; I save lots of money, and am in the kitchen less often)

    –It is not necessary to do aerobics to lose weight; so if you hate to jog/run for long distances, or bounce up and down in an aerobics class or walk on a treadmill, you do not have to do that. Just get your body moving daily, doing something that you enjoy doing and/or something in which the activity serves a purpose, such as walking–after all, what makes us humans different from the other mammals is the fact that we are bipedal–we are naturally suited for walking, we are supposed to walk.

    –Here are a some websites: Animal Pharm, Dr John Briffa’s Blog, Livable Low Carb, Mark’s Daily Apple (make sure you check out the readers’ success stories link), Nephro Pal

    (3) I live in a city with a lot of Asian people, mostly Chinese. From seeing Chinese women everyday, I can tell you this: they ain’t that attractive. To my eyes, they aren’t as pretty as their reputation claims them to be. Also, they are not as docile (well, Japanese women tend to live up to that stereotype, but Chinese women do not) as they are reputed to be: Of the few incidents I have seen of women “going off” on their men, beating them, in public, it has always been Chinese women on their white (usually, American) man. Also, back in the turn of the last century, when the newspapers here wrote many stories of the “Yellow Peril”, when only Chinese men were allowed to come here to work, those same newspapers would have editorial cartoons, wherein Chinese women were shown as ugly, often portrayed as orangutangs! So, yeah, Chinese women have come a long way, as far as being viewed as prizes for a white man to have, although, they have not changed all that much in the looks department.

    I do not think that we black women should compete with the Chinese women for white men. We shouldn’t compete with any racial group of women, not even our own race. I find that if a white man is attracted to Chinese (I’m using Chinese here, instead of Asian, because most of what I see of the AW/WM couples are with Chinese women) women, it is often because they are smaller (yes, they tend to be thinner than black women, white American women, too–Americans, regardless of race, have a high obesity rate) than black women. White men who are attracted to Chinese women exclusively tend to like to be bigger than, hulking over, their women. These men are not going to even give black women the side-eye; they don’t even give white women the side-eye.

    There are lots and lots of white men out there, and the thing that we black women need to do, is to look the best that we can for who we are as individuals. We need to look good on the outside (with weight and attire), and on the inside, as far as our personalities are concerned. (I would say that being fat will not help you. But it ain’t necessary to wear make-up if you don’t like the stuff; plus, much of that stuff is toxic, and most men are not attracted to women who wear it, especially heavy application. It is better to have flawless skin, and vibrant, healthy hair, and well-manicured nails, than to slap on tons of make-up and hair product to hide the fact that you don’t groom yourself at your foundation.) The reality is that most men will marry, couple with, one of their own, and that includes class, as well as race/ethnicity, because it is the women who are like them whom they are exposed to. Men don’t like to work too hard at finding a woman; they like convenience. The more that white men have been exposed to Chinese women, in their social and professional life over the decades, have we seen the increase of those couplings. Black women and white men do not often come into contact with each other. And, please don’t beat me up me for saying this, but black women (American and Caribbean) tend to be unfriendly and without charm. (And you do not have to be beautiful, or the prettiest or the sexiest woman in the room to be charming. You should see me, I am not a head-turner–although, I have a pretty, so I’ve been told, face–neither do I have a smoking body, but still I manage to be charming–and it is a conscious action on my part to be charming–enough to attract heterosexual white men to me and to help me and be giving towards me. Charisma is natural; charm is, can be, learned.) Here is a helpful book for learning the art of charm: “First Impressions: what you don’t know about how others see you” by Ann Demarais and Valerie White.

    • Rhonda says:

      Clarification:

      When I wrote, “…neither do I have a smoking body…”, I meant “smokin’ hot”, a slang-term for saying one’s body is slim and fit (visible muscle definition) — not related to cigarettes.

    • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

      Hello Rhonda,

      I wanted to say that I have found some of your dietary suggestions to be true. When I lost weight I cut out everything and then slowly added things back to see how my body reacts to it (by journaling and weighing myself) and I discovered that…

      1. I can eat fat. Fat does not cause me to gain weight. I eat many avocados (my favorite) a week and it does nothing to me. I do eat lean meats, but even if I have beef with some fat on it- again it doesn’t affect my weight. I am not a cheese fan, but I learned that I can eat cheese (which has fat), sour cream etc and it does nothing to me.

      2. I use pure butter with no weight fluctuation. I also use olive oil and a few other oils with no problem.

      3. I eat more vegetables and fruits.

      4. I can eat sweets, but its mostly things I bake to tweak the ingredients and I substitute Stevia or Truvia for sugar in everything i.e. pies, cobblers, cakes, brownies, tea, lemonade etc…

      5. If I drink a 20 ounce soda I can gain a pound in a day. Whether it is diet or not. I haven’t had a soda in over a year.

      6. If I eat anything in a bag or box I can gain 2-4 pounds in a day regardless of portion size. If I eat some restaurant foods the same thing happens.

      So I don’t go out, no boxed dinners/foods pre-packaged- even the diet ones, no rice, beans, bread, (maybe a tortilla rarely), potatoes, crackers, graham crackers, grits, pasta ….

      And the killer is that these are the foods I sometimes crave especially rice, potatoes, pastas, and breads. I don’t know what it is, but I would rather have rice versus ice cream, I mean some people may fantasize about having chocolate cake, but I fantasize about rice, potatoes, and pasta – but for some reason my body can’t handle it.

      7. I do however like to imbibe from time to time. I like trying different beers, but I had to let that go. I can have wine, but I have a strict limit – so as not to gain from the calories. Mostly I have learned to do either wine or a mix my own drinks so that I don’t gain from it.

      Its not bad… once you get used to it.

    • mochachoc says:

      I can certainly testify to Rhonda’s suggestion of taking a primal approach to eating. In the last 4 weeks I have reduced my weight by 10 pounds. And it is not due to exercise. I know I was on my way to diabetes because I would experience low blood sugar crashes. Also whenever I ate a high carb meal I would feel very full yet be ravenously hungry within an hour or so. Now I eat around two meals a day, no longer have low blood sugar weakness and moods, and am full most of the time. You will have to give up sugar but believe me the urge to eat a lot of sugary things will diminish. And I love puddings.

      The links Rhonda has posted are excellent. Do your research because you will meet a lot of opposition (you’ll have to convince yourself first) with this way of eating because it is in complete contrast to what is recommended by conventional wisdom. If nothing else I would say sugar is the enemy. Give it up in all its forms (including limiting your fruit intake. I know, I know, blasphemous eh!) Weight loss is important but so is controlling insulin elevations. If you are prone to unstable blood sugar (and many Black people are particularly if you are overweight, have diabetes in the family or have experienced gestational diabetes) you should really not consider it an option to change the way you eat and increase your physical activity.

      • YMB says:

        This may about to be a really long comment so I apologize in advance. I have responded previously about the importance of BW losing weight but I haven’t added that I unfortunately know about this firsthand. I’ve watched my weight go up higher than I ever expected after dropping my exercise routine when I entered grad school and then adopting some of my boyfriend’s eating habits. So what I am saying is, I’m in the same boat some of you are in, I’m determined to get out of it, and I want the same for you, too.

        Here is an article from O magazine about low carb/ low glycemic index eating that backs up what Rhonda, Oshun, and Mochachoc were saying:
        http://www.oprah.com/health/Lose-Weight-with-a-Low-Glycemic-Diet
        Ludwig’s theory held up: By the end of the 18 months, people whose bodies reacted most strongly to a blood sugar spike—they secreted the most insulin—lost an average of 13 pounds on the low-glycemic diet but only about 3 pounds on the low-fat plan. People who secreted less lost an average of three pounds no matter which diet they followed. “These findings provide an explanation for why some people do so poorly on standard low-fat and low-calorie diets,” Ludwig explains. “Variability in weight loss isn’t just because some people are more motivated.”

        Two of my favorite websites are SparkPeople.com and The World’s Healthiest Foods. SparkPeople contains free recipes, meal planners, exercise videos, and goal trackers. Plus, you can also find support from other community members through their message boards and blogs.

        I like WHFoods because it has nutrient profiles for the foods listed, allows you to search by nutrient to find find the best sources of nutrients you are seeking to get more of, has recipes, and also a food advisor. When I took a nutrition class in college, I shared this site with the professor, a doctorate in human nutrition, she was impressed with the information and sources cited so it is credible information.

        Consider joining a CSA (Community Supported Agriculture) Group if you want to increase the amount of fresh vegetables you are eating, http://www.localharvest.org/csa/ . How these works is that for a flat fee, you purchase a share of a local farm’s harvest for the season (some CSAs are year-round). Some of these can be pricy but many offer reduced rates for low-income folks. You go to a site or the farm to pick up your produce every week or every two weeks.

        I was a CSA member last year and received some of the best produce I’ve ever had in my life. That was how I was introduced to bok choy, now one of my favorite vegetables. I love to sauté bok choy with onions and shelled edamame (soybeans)for a side dish. It’s quick, delicious, and really good for you, too! Sometimes I add corn also.

        There was a Fashion Insider’s Diet that I read about in Allure magazine last year that had some good tips. Unfortunately, they don’t have the article on their website, but this site has the main tips, http://www.nastasifitness.com/2009/09/the-fashion-insiders-diet.html. The one that I think will be the most useful for me is about staving off weight gain by eating the same things for breakfast and lunch and allowing variety at dinner, within reason of course.

        Lastly, as much as most of us don’t like exercise, I really think it is essential that we work it into out lives. Despite my weight gain, both parents having hypertension and high cholesterol, my blood pressure remains normal, my stress test showed great heart condition, and my cholesterol was EXCELLENT (low bad cholesterol and high good cholesterol) at my recent physical. I credit this entirely to my previous years of regular workouts.

        Additionally, exercise has been shown to help with insomnia and mood disorders. There is just too much scientific evidence about the benefits of exercise for any of us to be passing it up.

        Many recreation centers offer exercise facilities and classes and they will usually be cheaper than a fitness club. If you don’t like going to the gym for whatever reason, buy (or borrow from the library) some workout DVDs. Collage Video sells workout DVDs, but more importantly it lets you search by type of workout, and equipment used, etc, and read descriptions of the routine.

        Some PBS stations air early morning exercise programming and there are cable stations that air workouts exclusively or part of the time.

        I recently saw a report about how BW’s concerns about ruining their hairdo is restricting them from exercising, http://www.aarp.org/research/surveys/care/health/fitness/articles/aahair.html. It really makes me sad that hairstyles are getting in the way of many of us living abundant healthy lives. Exercise doesn’t have to be something that causes you to sweat profusely- go for a brisk walk every day. It doesn’t need to be outside, many malls open early to provide a safe and comfortable walking space.

        I feel fired up thinking about all of this stuff! We can do this!

        • lunanoire says:

          About the hair issue: I joined a swim team in middle school and kept swimming ever since. When I choose to engage with people who knock my natural, nappy hair, I remind them that swimming is my exercise of choice and that it’s cheaper to buy a wig than to buy a pacemaker/fake heart.

          • tertiaryanna says:

            Lunanoire,

            I’m starting to do more swimming and am interested in how you kept your hair healthy in this kind of workout. Would you consider emailing me at my (shown username)/ gmail mail client?

            Also, Ladies, exercise can help reduce your risk factors for Type II diabetes, which is a health concern for BW.

          • Tracy says:

            LOL!! As a bw that wears a wig to swim in ( I am designing a line as we speak!) Those words were never so true!!

            It’s only hair!! and what a lot of women don’t realize is that when you start taking care of yourself, your hair and skin fall in line and look fabulous!! No more dry brittle hair, no more spotty greasy skin, just a healthy glow!

        • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

          Thank you YMB and Rhonda for all the links!

    • MissASP says:

      Nice information but let’s be clear about what we’re (I’m) saying, bw need to become their best high quality selves to attract high quality makes from all backgrounds. No one is talking about competing with Chinese women for wm or whatever. We’re talking about competing for high quality males (in general) who are open to bw. Obviously, there are many petite bw too so if a man was interested in small women of any race, he could find a small bw.

      PS: Everyones version of high quality is different but most people (including the women in this forum) have about the same idea.

    • SweetSoulSister says:

      Absolutely the truth, Rhonda. I’ve been eating like this for ages and I am a follower of Mark Sisson (Mark’s Daily Apple) and Dr. John Briffa. I wanted to make a post like this but, I know how bw are sensitive about the weight issue. Low carbing has always, always made the most sense to me because it’s how early man ate. Our bodies haven’t evolved enough to take alot of grains, and that applies especially to African Americans, whose African ancestors were hunter gatherers. Obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure and practically every other ailment afflicting African Americans is due to an overwhelming carb/grain intact.

      I would also recommend “Good Calories, Bad Calories” by Gary Taubes, “The Omnivore’s Dilemma” by Michael Pollan and “The Paleo Diet” by Loren Cordain

  34. Rhonda, Mochachoc, Oshun/Aphrodite, YMB:

    THANK YOU so much for the information you’re sharing! I’m delighted to see a community forming here where readers help each other (and me! LOL!) with helpful information.

    I’m particularly excited by what I’ve read of the Primal Blueprint by the blog author of the Mark’s Daily Apple blog. [And I was delighted to find out that he self-published his book. Good for him. *smile*]

    I made progress last year with the Power 90/P90X training systems, but I’ve gotten to the point that I simply refuse to do anymore regular bouts of harsh, grueling exercise like that. I also refuse to spend a lot of time counting reps/sets at this point. I’m sick of all of that.

    I’m looking for nutrition systems that work with the things I actually enjoy (like walking, bouncing on the mini-trampoline, and a bit of kettlebell work) that don’t feel like chores to me—the first 2 I can do naturally without counting reps/sets. And this Primal Blueprint looks like a nutrition system that I can actually maintain over the long-run (without feeling like a resentful prisoner to some diet plan). LADIES, THANK YOU!
    _____________________________________

    YMB,

    I’m going to add your recent comment to the blog essay. Thank you for breaking it down like that!

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

    • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

      No problem Khadija 🙂

      I have found that even in just altering my diet this way I lose weight w/o exercise.

      I don’t like the intense workouts either – I tend to do more dance workouts. They can still get intense regarding getting your heart rate up depending on the dance, but I find some can be gentler on the body vs jumping/hopping around – and dance helps with the boredom aspect of working out for me.

    • mochachoc says:

      You are most welcome. I’m glad I was able to contribute in a small way. Mark’s Daily Apple really is informative and fun. I’m not able to do all that running around through the woods etc but I still enjoy watching the videos. The primal/lowcarb/paleo/caveman way of eating gets results and is sustainable.

    • Rhonda says:

      My apology, for I missed this comment from you, Khadija…you are welcome. I’m glad that you have found (are finding) some of the links I have provided to be helpful.

      Short story {hopefully, and fingers crossed}: I read several books a few years ago, before I found out about the websites/blogs, which helped me to start walking on the road to eating well, thus improving my health ten-fold.

      “Fast Food Nation” and “The Omnivore’s Dilemma” taught me a lot about this nation’s food products; they both got me to stop eating industrialized meats, because of the feed, which is mostly corn and soy. Soy is poison (read “The Whole Soy Story”, or go to the book author’s website, for more information). From those books, I started eating grass-fed beef, pastured chicken and eggs from pastured chickens, etc. I just wiped all foods that contain corn, or the foods from animals that were fed corn, off of my list, and then only ate corn (fresh on the cob, polenta, tortillas, etc.) when I decided.

      “Real Foods” by Nina Planck (she has a website, too) is a small and slim (about 135 pages) book, which helped me to stop being afraid of eating saturated fats from animals and to eat only real foods. Our bodies looooove saturated fats; we should eat lots of it. She helped me to understand that if you eat the Standard American Diet (SAD), one’s balance of Omega-6 to Omega-3 fats is skewed. The O6:03 balance should be 1:1 or 2:1 or 1:2 or 1:3. If you eat the SAD the balance is something like 15:1 or 27:1 — this imbalance is what has brought on so many Diseases of Civilization that we Westerners suffer, especially Americans. Planck’s book and website led me to the wonderful work and books (“Lose Fat, Eat Fat” and “Nourishing Traditions”) by The Weston A. Price Foundation (spend some time at their website, it is chock-full of good nutrition information). The WAPF further helped me to not be afraid of saturated fats and to eat more of it (not only from animals but from coconut oil…if you like what coconut oil does to your skin and hair, you will love what it does, and how much better it works, from the inside out), and to move to, not only eating real foods, but to eating nutrient-dense foods.

      Learning about nutrient-dense foods, I realized that, at that time, about five years ago, I was malnourished. Although, I was overweight and ate lots of food, it was because the foods I ate were nutrient-poor that I had to eat so much food to satiate my body’s need to be properly nourished. Many Americans are overweight and eat lots of so-called food, but are malnourished — one does not need to appear stick then with a bloated belly to be malnourished. So, I decided to take my health in my own hands — I ate lots of saturated fats, got the O6 to O3s in balance (actually, I skewed it for a few months to favor the O3s, because I realized that my stored fat cells, which one gets from eating too many carbs, were full of o6, thus making me sick), ate only nutrient-dense foods; stopped eating all processed foods/foods made by others, so I stopped eating in restaurants and take-outs; stopped wearing sunscreen and sunglasses when outdoors, which allowed my body to get more Vitamin D.

      Re: The O6 to O3 imbalance. I used to suffer from a terrible depression that would descend down on me from out of nowhere, which made me want to kill myself. Since getting the fats in balance, I cannot get depressed if I tried.

      It has only been during the past eight months, wherein I learned about the Primal or Paleo or Caveman way of eating that I decided to give up eating carbs (sugar and its sibling-in-disguise, grains and potatoes). I lost a lot of weight, without even trying, eating nutrient-dense, real foods; the weight loss was a welcome by-product of my diet change, for I made the change to see if my health would improve, which it did.

      • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

        “they both got me to stop eating industrialized meats, because of the feed, which is mostly corn and soy. Soy is poison (read “The Whole Soy Story”, or go to the book author’s website, for more information). From those books, I started eating grass-fed beef, pastured chicken and eggs from pastured chickens, etc. I just wiped all foods that contain corn, or the foods from animals that were fed corn, off of my list, and then only ate corn (fresh on the cob, polenta, tortillas, etc.) when I decided.”

        I have had my suspicions about food. I never understood the soy push. I will have to google the whole soy story. But I always heard that soy had so many estrogens in it. I would think how could that be healthy for someone to take in so much extra estrogen?

        Also it seems as if corn/wheat is used in almost everything. Reading labels sometimes makes me crazy.

  35. NijaG says:

    Oshun said:

    And the thing is that they have not only come from the BC, but from nonBW. I can kind of work through the comments from the BC now because I can see that things are abnormal there, but when these messages come from nonblacks its bewildering. I don’t know if there is some kind of weird privilege/domination being exercised/asserted here or what.
    ***********************************************************

    PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO ANY non-BLACK woman (especially WW) who attempts to discourage you in any way, shape or form from being your most fabulous and feminine self. This goes for all of us BW.

    The historical and present dynamics btw WW and BW in the USA has always been very layered and multifaceted. I’m talking of WW & BW who can trace their roots in this country to at least 120-200 years.

    I’m sure many books have been written on the tense push-pull dynamics of WW/BW rlsps as a collective. Bottom line, don’t pay attention to them. They happen to be going through and are feeling the effects of some of the negative ideologies of their feminist movement. That’s why many get threatened and try to discourage women who are naturally feminine or trying to be. Femininity is powerful thing and it can make people very nervous.

    • MissASP says:

      This is very true but bw must also position themselves around nbw who aren’t like this. Some of my best friends are ww but I realize that a lot of ww are closet racists who love to use bp! Bm to give them an ego boost for salivating over them (even when they are NOT all that and would never actually date a bm) and bw to feel good about themselves (people of all backgrounds are profiting in many ways from the poor position of bW!)

      Bottom line, bw will never get into the higher places we desire by only having black friends who are trying to go to the same place. You need friends of all colors in higher places (education, career, social circles) to move UP!

      • NijaG says:

        MissASP.

        I have/had close friends from all over the world, ww included. I think it goes w/o saying that many AA women need to widen their social circles and expand their network and friendship circle to include people from various groups.

        You’re 16 so you probably won’t have experienced or witnessed this yet in your circle yet, but I’m sure some of the older women on here can attest to what I’m trying to explain. Also, too keep it simple I’ll talk strictly black and white in America.

        In general WW unconsciously believe that they don’t view BW as threats in the dating/marriage game, especially when it comes to quality men of all races/groups (especially their WM).

        Up until very recently, due to various issues that have been discussed adnaseum, WW have never really had this belief challenged in any major way. This is slowing changing as more BW get out the “nothing but a BM” programing and DBR BCs.

        Nothing brings out more subtle tension and subconscious prejudice (not racist per se) beliefs/behavior from single unattached WW than when quality WM in their circles starts to pay serious attention to non-WW in their friendship groups. This is especially true when it’s a black woman.

        I’ve seen this play out many times even amongst the best of inter-racial friends who’ve grown up together. The BW in question is usually blindsided when these attitudes come out (which is usually passive-aggressively). Most of more conscious WW tend to work through this when it happens, but I’ve seen some close friendship end or become distant/strained in these kinds of situations.

        • MissASP says:

          Idt I’ve seen it personally but I’m not suprised at all!! Race is a stupid concept! Ugh.

        • YMB says:

          NijaG,

          ITA. I was about MissASP’s age when I learned this lesson. I had a close white friend in high school who always hung around with black girls, and had crushes exclusively on black classmates and celebrities. She had a crush on one of the school basketball players and when it was relayed to her that he had said he was not interested in dating white women, she vehemently ranted about it, as if he had no right to exclude them from his dating pool.

          One day we were walking to class and somehow Vanessa Williams came up in our conversation and my friend said something about her her mother being white. I made some statement questioning whether her mother were white and my so-called friend laughed mockingly, “Her mother’s not white. Where did she get those blue eyes from then?” and walked away. This informed me not only of her glaring ignorance of the mixed racial ancestry of most African Americans and genetics (the recessive blue eye genes would need to come from both parents), but also her complete inability to conceive of a black woman having a marriage and family with a white man.

          Back then I thought inter-racially dating WW would be more open-minded but this, and other incidents, taught me that many of these women are comfortable keeping company with black women since they do not view them as competitors and also in order to broaden their own dating pools (via increased access to BM). These are the some of the ones who are most opposed to BW coming out to the forefront in positive ways.

    • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

      Thank you Nija G,

      I had no idea it was this deep.

      “The BW in question is usually blindsided when these attitudes come out (which is usually passive-aggressively).”

      This assessment is pretty much spot on in my experience. I definitely felt blindsided.

      “In general WW unconsciously believe that they don’t view BW as threats in the dating/marriage game, especially when it comes to quality men of all races/groups (especially their WM).

      Up until very recently, due to various issues that have been discussed adnaseum, WW have never really had this belief challenged in any major way. This is slowing changing as more BW get out the “nothing but a BM” programing and DBR BCs.

      Nothing brings out more subtle tension and subconscious prejudice (not racist per se) beliefs/behavior from single unattached WW than when quality WM in their circles starts to pay serious attention to non-WW in their friendship groups. This is especially true when it’s a black woman.”

      Ironically though my two most intense experiences of this nature happened with 2 married non Black women. The first I had to eliminate from my life immediately bc her craziness/toxicity was escalating at such a pace – it was both frightening and enraging. And it all started because I started asking questions regarding quality men and marriage. She was more than happy to play nice mother hen to me on other stuff (even stuff I didn’t want her input on), but when it came to this – she went psycho on me. This friendship ended very, very badly.

      She had the “life”: decent husband, being taken care of etc, but she had let herself go. She was on the thinner side, (but in my comparing the pics of her younger self in her home to herself today) she wasn’t polished in any way. Her hair, skin, nails, clothing, shoes etc had jumped in the toilet. She was very sporty, but in a utilitarian/frumpy kind of way. Her children were older (both late teens) so its not as if she didn’t have time for this kind of thing. She would compliment me a lot initially whenever we went out together, but over time she would start that crazy passive aggressive stuff over the same things she complimented me on.

      I was also shocked by her attitude towards marriage and her husband – which I now am filtering through your comments and the post Khadija wrote about considering your own circumstances – and its obvious she reaped the benefits from marriage, but she always was so disdainful towards marriage and dismissive with her husband.

      I lost so much respect for her over some of the things she said to me about her husband. I would never tell another women some of the stuff she told me. She would often joke about how she would avoid him/his needs and fidelity was just a word in the dictionary.

      It was obvious to me that he loved her: he bought her a Jag (1 of 2 cars), they live in a 3 bedroom home 4 blocks away form the beach, she works from home at her leisure, her husband takes her and her children on vacations to Europe and Latin America – and those were the material items. There were a multitude of intangible benefits I noticed as well. If I had a guy who was that loving and demonstrative I would bend over backwards!

      I thought that because she was older and had done well for herself there would be wisdom to gain. I thought she was safe to talk to about this because she had been open and helpful in other ways. I was wrong.

      I had an older married WW acquaintance ask me (at my current grad school) – aren’t there any nice BM around you can talk to?

      The last experience I had with a married nonBW was a mess as well that I had to cut off bc she was escalating too. It was crazy. She was a hairstylist by trade and it started by calling me high maintenance regarding my beauty regimes. You would think you could discuss hair, makeup, skincare with a person involved in the beauty business right?

      Then came the comments like (I am natural) do you wash your hair? Usually asked loudly in front of others. Then it would progress to her volunteering that despite my attempt at gaining an advanced education, she was employable in any economy bc people always want to get their hair done. Finally she would take to reminding me that she was married and not only that, but married to a doctor at all times in any conversation whether it was related to the topic or not.

      I noted that you mentioned competition. I can understand that among single nonBW, but I don’t understand why the married ones are crazy too.

      • MissASP says:

        Wow, your “friends” were crazy! Lol. This reminds me of a post of Evia’s where a bw wrote on saying how her bw friends said bad things about her wm husband. She and her children were very well taken care of by him but most of these women were single or struggling. BUT, as soon as her husband came to pick her up, they were all over him! Women of all colors can be some backstabbing crazies!

  36. ann says:

    Dr. Oz has great informtion about weight. He seems to learn towards natural foods. Also, Bob Green.

  37. MissASP says:

    Please check out my first blog post about:

    Quick And Easy Ways To Become Elegant

    http://blackfemininity.blogspot.com/

    😀

  38. TDJ says:

    “Most BW think that if they adopt a more feminine way of dress, of speaking, of comportment, etc., that they are somehow ceding power to other parties in whatever interactions they have. The paradox, of course, is that by rejecting femininity, they discard the incredible power that femininity has over most men. This is of extremely high value and BW just toss it away, either carelessly or intentionally.”

    This just really sums it up.

    The current “strong black woman” involves taking on traits that are decidedly masculine in the real world, and is a sham. It doesn’t make you stronger, but in fact, makes you weaker.

    The ideal “strong black woman” would hew to feminine ideals while maintaining her fierce streak of independence and unlimited capacity for accomplishment.

    This has really opened my eyes wide. So much of what I’ve learned through absorption while being in the BC is just nonsense.

  39. MissASP,

    You said, ““Black culture”, if there is such a thing, is just stupid, flat out. It’s a weird, ghetto culture that takes everything NORMAL and turns it around into something creepy. Idc if you think I “hate being black” for saying this, it’s the truth! This is why I try to identify with gender over race! What does the bc have to offer women like me who want MORE out of life?? NOTHING!”

    Let me try to state this as clearly as possible. I respect and value your participation in this conversation, particularly your wisdom at such a young age. I welcome you, and I hope that you’ll continue to participate in the conversations here.

    However, this blog is a safe space for AA women and girls. This means that when, necessary, I have to police boundaries in these conversations. I have boundaries when it comes to hate speech pertaining to race and gender. I also have boundaries when it comes to hate speech pertaining to ethnicity—especially hate speech about my paricular ethnic heritage. I’m NOT going to let anybody come here and insult (my) AA culture and heritage.

    Truthfully discussing the things that have gone wrong within the modern AA collective is not the same thing as disrespecting my heritage. Or allowing others to come here to disrespect my ethnic heritage. That’s one of several boundaries that I enforce with everybody.

    MissASP, I don’t know what your particular ethnic background is, but:

    If you’re a foreign-origin Black person, then you should make it clear that the “Black culture” that you’re not sure exists and if it does, you feel is worthless—is your OWN foreign (non-AA) Black culture. If you’re of foreign-origin, please make it clear that the “Black stuff” that you feel is worthless is your OWN cultural stuff and NOT mine (as an AA).

    If you are foreign-origin, I would prefer that you refrain from insulting MY ethnic heritage by characterizing AA heritage and culture as “weird, ghetto culture.” “Weird, ghetto culture” has nothing to do with traditional AA culture. I don’t like it when people, especially non-AAs get this twisted around.

    If you’re an African-American, then I would humbly suggest that you reconsider your disrespect for your own ethnic heritage. Actual AA heritage and culture is NOT the same thing as “weird, ghetto culture.” It’s also NOT the same thing as the “acting Black” mess. I don’t like it when AAs get this twisted around.

    It’s possible to travel the Earth, and take advantage of all it has to offer without defecating on one’s own heritage. African-Americans watch examples of everybody else maintaining their own ethnic self-respect while also enjoying what the wider world has to offer. This was discussed during an earlier post, here.

    Defecating on your own ethnic heritage is not a healthy posture to take. It also doesn’t lead to being respected by outsiders whether these outsiders are non-AAs or non-Blacks (all of whom almost always respect their OWN ethnic heritage—AAs are alone in defecating on their own ethnic heritage). It leads to being a refugee who is treated like a mascot.

    This was discussed at the previous blog. http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2009/05/why-we-must-first-love-ourselves-as.html

    http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2009/05/sojourners-meeting-1-first-love.html

    Unfortunately, with these sorts of conversations, I find that it’s sometimes necessary for AAs to be cautious about the non-AA Black people who come among us during these extremely sensitive conversations. And err on the side of caution about enforcing boundaries of RESPECT. This came up a couple of times at the previous blog:

    http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2009/02/open-letter-to-those-who-support-bw.html

    Some non-AAs (whether innocently or not so innocently) bring things to our conversations that are NOT helpful for us as we seek our own unique path(s) to the Promised Land.

    And then there are other non-AA Black folks who are operating in total bad faith when it comes to AA issues and concerns, such as the example that I criticized in this post. http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2009/04/beware-of-advice-from-outsiders-who.html

    ***Note to non-AA readers***Let me stress that, as always, you’re welcome to continue participating in these conversations. I only think about or mention policing boundaries when I hear a comment that raises “red flags” for me.

    Folks were having an extremely productive conversation before this minor hiccup/potential misunderstanding (on my part). Please continue to do so. *Smile*

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

    • MissASP says:

      Kadejah,

      I AM AA!! When I said “black culture” I WAS NOT talking about African-American culture! I was talking about the stereotypically “acting black” stuff that bp of all nationalities get sucked into. Sorry for the misunderstanding! 😀

      I think that ghetto “black” culture is useless. Not black American culture. BIG difference.

      • MissASP,

        Thank you for clarifying that. I’ve found that it’s usually better to try to be as precise as possible. *Smile*

        The people who hate AAs (whether they are non-Black racists, or bigoted non-AA Blacks) are always happy to take imprecise comments from AAs that sound like blanket, AA-bashing, anti-AA comments and run with them.

        Ahh…the freshness of youth—I remember being 16 years old. {more smiling} When a person makes imprecise, blanket, anti-AA-sounding statements, they are basically inviting the people who hate AAs (non-Black racists and bigoted foreign Blacks) to join them in denigrating AA heritage.

        Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  40. Amanda says:

    I remember someone mentioned a finihing school type school for black girls or a type of boarding school. I’m beginning to wonder about this as well. I know in certain parts of Africa there is a rights of passage type training for boys when they reach puberty. I think they leave home around 13 or 14 maybe younger can’t remember).

  41. NijaG says:

    Rhonda, Mochachoc, Oshun/Aphrodite, YMB:

    I want to add my Thanks to Khadija’s about the eating/diet plans and information. I’ve been reading the Primal Blueprint blog, and what I’ve seen so far is really good and seems very reasonable.

    I tried a raw food diet a while back and while I lost some weight I couldn’t sustain it. This primal plan more workable and includes elements of raw with I liked by couldn’t be 100%.

  42. JaliliMaster says:

    Miss ASP, I think you are confusing Hip-hop culture with Black AA culture. I know it can sometimes be difficult to separate the two in this day and age, but that is only because, as I’ve said before, the emptiest barrels make the loudest noise. This “weird, ghetto culture” you refer to is NOT Black culture from ANYWHERE. It is hip-hop culture that some people, intentionally or not, try to substitute as Black culture. And it is not just in America. In Britain as well, Black British Caribbean culture is quite often substituted for Hip-hop. It is easy to get confused, especially when the media keeps feeding the public that trash, along with other degenerates that live amongst Black people. However, you shouldn’t let anyone tell you that your culture is bad. It isn’t. You just need to learn to differentiate between what really is your culture and the mess that some folks pretend it is.

    Because you are young, you would have grown up with it always being like this, but let me reiterate: there is nothing wrong with most of real Black culture, whichever country one originates from. There will be bad parts in each one, but like most other cultures, your culture, my culture, any other Black culture is predominantly good. Don’t let the acting Black folks make you feel you have to be something else. I sense that you may have been on the receiving end of other Black kids your age telling you that you “act white” or some other similar circumstance. Don’t fall for it. They are the ones following a disturbed culture that they now want to convince everyone else is real Black culture. You should reject it, and embrace your own REAL culture. They are the ones with the problem, not you!

    • MissASP says:

      Yes, I have dealt with those types of people from a young age! Thanks for the understanding and encouragement! <3

      I love this thread. Lol!

  43. Rhonda says:

    Oshun and mochachoc and YMB and SweetSoul,

    Thanks for your comments about what I wrote. It is really nice that the conversation here has been that we’ve added on, expanded, to what someone has written. It has been a “Yes, and…” instead of, “No, but…” The “Yes, and…” approach is about growth.

    • YMB says:

      Khadija,

      Deep bow of gratitude

      I am thankful to have this wonderful space to receive and share wisdom!

      NijaG and Rhonda,

      You’re welcome and THANK YOU!

  44. JaliliMaster says:

    “I AM AA!! When I said “black culture” I WAS NOT talking about African-American culture! I was talking about the stereotypically “acting black” stuff that bp of all nationalities get sucked into. Sorry for the misunderstanding!
    I think that ghetto “black” culture is useless. Not black American culture. BIG difference.”

    I am glad that someone has noticed that it is not only AAs who are suffering from this acting Black disease. I see many young African teenagers who either grew up in the West or moved here also behave that way. Ghetto is as ghetto does! Even those living in African countries see hip-hop on their screens and begin to emulate the behaviour. The only difference is that when their parents are around, they drop it. E.g., it is not uncommon in Britain today to see a young African girl do the whole neck rolling, finger pointing in your face, voice raised routine when she is having an ‘argument’. Many of the Africans in the UK might want to argue that it is only the Caribbean origin ones that do this, but that is no longer true.
    What many call Black American culture today is something that, in my opinion, is the same for all Western Black folks. These disgusting behaviours are not unique to AAs. Come to UK, go somewhere like Brixton, or, just turn on the TV. UK has her own Lil’ Waynes, etc, acting Black types, etc. The only difference is that the media doesn’t pay them as much attention. Hence, British Blacks can lie to themselves that it is an American thing. Yeah right!
    ___________________________

    o MissASP said:
    “Yes, I have dealt with those types of people from a young age! Thanks for the understanding and encouragement! <3
    I love this thread. Lol!”

    I sensed that that was the case. Don’t let these type of people belittle you or make you feel less than. Bear in mind that the acting Black types only attack the ones that are doing better than them.

    • MissASP says:

      Thanks! Yes, that’s why they act that way. They know that bw who “act white” usually end up doing 10x better than them in every asspect of life! Idiots.

  45. NijaG says:

    Oshun/Aphrodite said:

    I had no idea it was this deep.

    Believe me it’s probably deeper and things are most likely going to get a little crazier before it balances out.

    The current media focus on the “Po’ Black Woman” is not being fueled by WM, but by WW who have major influences and pull in that sector. Also I’m sure most have noticed the attacks increasing focus on middle-class/Professional and above black women.

    Removing the politics of Obama, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this started happening with a Black FLOTUS, who has an obviously adoring husband/family. A black FL who has been received well internationally and also here. However, the main thing is that there are lots of non-Racist WM and it’s growing who just think she is the BOMB (in looks, poise, and manners), plus her supportive attitude towards her husband.

    Compare that with her fellow white political wives and the scandals that have plagued many of their marriages over the past 1-3 years. It’s not a good look for them right now.

    At this point noone cares about the ABC/ghetto BW or the true “nothin but a BM” types. They’re not the threat. It’s the Sojourner types, the growing number of divested BW, looking out into the universe and saying to themselves, “You know what? I want a bigger and better piece of the pie and I’m going out to get it.”

    We’re the potential threat and they can sense it.

    • MissASP says:

      Wow! This has been mentioned before on the bwe blogs but never in this way! You’re completely right! This is just sad. But what can we do about that!? The only bw who controls a large portion of the media is Oprah! Although I love her, she’s been shacked up with a bm for years! I actually learned recently that he’s a successful businessman but I’m
      sure he can’t compare to her! Lol. What can bw like us do?

  46. NijaG says:

    Oshun said:

    Ironically though my two most intense experiences of this nature happened with 2 married non Black women

    I don’t doubt it. I just used single because nothing brings out the cattiness in women much faster and to the fore-front than when there is a new perceived threat and competition to the eligible men in their circle.

    I noted that you mentioned competition. I can understand that among single nonBW, but I don’t understand why the married ones are crazy too.

    With married women, it usually about another woman upping the game. Take the first woman for example. Look at her attitude towards her husband. That’s one of the by-products of some the negative ideologies from the latter part of the feminist movement, which the blog Khadija highlighted addresses regularly.

    I don’t know what kind of conversations you had w/her regarding your philosophies towards men and marriage, but from what you wrote it’s obvious you didn’t share her attitude. Your ideas seem more traditionally geared and believe me, that is more of a THREAT to many women like her.
    ***************************************************************

    And it all started because I started asking questions regarding quality men and marriage. She was more than happy to play nice mother hen to me on other stuff (even stuff I didn’t want her input on), but when it came to this – she went psycho on me.

    She would compliment me a lot initially whenever we went out together, but over time she would start that crazy passive aggressive stuff over the same things she complimented me on.

    She had the “life”: decent husband, being taken care of etc, but she had let herself go.

    Girl!!!!!
    There are so many things in that first story alone that we could write a book on.

    Bottom line was that in the beginning she didn’t consider you a threat, until you started mentioning quality men and marriage. I assume she knew you were also open to other races, especially WM.

    I don’t know how much you interacted with her, her hubby and their social circle. If you did interact with them socially then I wouldn’t be surprised if *maybe* she was getting questions about you. Also, you’d be surprised how innocent comments and compliments from her husband about you would trigger major insecurities, especially since she seemed to have let herself go like you mentioned.

    Same kind of issue with the second non-BW you mentioned. Like someone had mentioned before, there are lots of groups who benefit from the current disorderly and chaotic status of BW in the society. Some have a vested interest in trying to keep us in that state. We can’t let them.

    • Amanda says:

      I’ve noticed this as well and it annoys the hell out of me. There was something about this in The Surrendered Single about women not saying hurtful things about men if we don’t want the same things said about us by men. I just can’t stand when I see commercials or women talking about how their husbands are not husbands, but just like another child they have to raise. I had an aunt who would treat her husband who would come during his lunch break and clean around the house so she wouldn’t have to when she got off work)like crap. Then he left. She blamed it on his mother throwing a woman that she really wanted him to marry in his face, but frankly I think it was her treatment of him. I mean it shocked me how much this man did for her and she would complain about everything. If it’s the case that these women feel they are raising another child (i know just women talking, but talking can be harmful, we have to be careful of what we put out there) then maybe they need to find another man. Secondly if a man said that there would be all kinds of hell he would be accused of being sexist, a chauvinist etc. I think that ww take wm and marriage for granted. WW see bw as living in some great utopia of no men. Let them go through what we go through and believe me they will appreciate what they have. I also think as they see that just like being a bw doesn’t make us wired to love bm just because they are black like us it’s the same for wm.

      • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

        ” I mean it shocked me how much this man did for her and she would complain about everything….I think that ww take wm and marriage for granted.”

        I felt this about her.

  47. NijaG says:

    Note to All:

    I don’t think most WW are cruel or mean-sprited. I don’t even think there is some deliberately thought out conscious plan to how they react to some BW in certain types of circumstances. I think most of what they do is very subconscious. Most are not even aware of why they’re reacting the way they do or why they feel so threatened by some BW sometimes. This is especially the case for middle-class and above WW.

    • ak says:

      Hmmm I disagree with you there. It sounds like no WW is therefore accountable or should be held accountable for her actions when you say that.

      Of course WW can be cruel, mean-spirited, jealous, and plain evil to the core, IF that’s what they really are. Nobody said they all would be but I don’t understand how people are ready to believe that all WM are just ‘evil to the core’ but can’t believe that of any WW! LOL People who believe that are no better than the people (white, black or whatever they are) who make BW look ugly, too fat, too loud, uncouth, on welfare, without a man and kids by all and sundry etc., etc. !!

      White women celebrated and had their pictures taken at the lynchings of BM and they did NOT look disgusted at those displays!

    • ak says:

      Also NijaG there’s ‘subconscious’-based behavior….and then there’s COVERT behavior which has the same root and agenda as overt behavior but only diferrently staged and presented.

  48. YMB says:

    Oshun/Aphrodite,

    Those are some really disturbing experiences you had with those women! They really drive home the points Khadija made in previous posts about how BW need to always consider their own circumstances and to carefully observe how well other people’s actions match up with their words.

    The first WW you mentioned who shamelessly denigrated her husband and her marriage in front of you, I bet that she never spent any time talking about plans of leaving her perch in that catbird seat. She wanted to you to be her admiring sounding board, never getting out of your place by thinking or acting in ways to attain what she had. I don’t mean that she feared you would go after her husband. Just that she did not want to see you attain the same things she had-a doting husband of your own and a comfortable lifestyle provided by said husband.

    This reminds me of a few “naturally thin” women I have known. Women who were on the thinner side of the normal BMI range, not anorexic. Whenever weight issues were discussed these women were always quick to chime in with how they had such a difficult time gaining weight or maintaining their present weight, as if this were a hardship or disadvantage, and they should be pitied. I noticed that these women always ate salads and when they had things like candy, it was only a bite or a small piece- definitely not the eating patterns of someone who desires to gain weight.

    These women were fully aware of the socially enviable advantages of being slim and wanted to draw further attention to their figures without bragging, just as the women you mentioned wanted to be admired (but not emulated) for their comfortable marriages.

  49. Rhonda says:

    In one of my earlier comments, I mentioned that American women think that looking sexy means dressing slutty, and that we (American women, regardless of race) could learn a thing or two from French women. Here is a very good website for inspiration a la francaise: Josy Mermet’s Styling Agency offers you a complete style enhancing session including hair styling, make up and clothing. This session will help you gain confidence and boost your professional and personal image. Josy Mermet’s concept is based on a personality analysis called “Chromopsychology”. This copy-written method has been created by Josy and has since evolved.

    I had forgotten about the above website/service. I was going through a list of bookmarked pages, and stumbled on it. An acquaintance of mine, when she was in Paris, went through Mermet’s makeover process — the result was impressive. Even if you have no plans to travel to Paris, or you think that you cannot afford it (which many can, because they work within the budget you set for them…as told to me by my acquaintance), you might be able to use the before-and-after pics as inspiration to self-direct your own makeover, if you so desire. Bonne chance.

  50. pioneervalleywoman says:

    Oshun/Aphrodite/NijaG:

    The disturbing stories you speak of emphasize, if anything, the importance of Sojourners having a “stealth” strategy, in that those who would see sojourner types as competition can be blindsided in that they have no idea the sojourner is strategizing to get where she wants to go.

    As I think of the example Khadija has raised about Asian women quietly developing a strategy to improve their collective image, I think this applies not only to Asian women but to Asian cultures on the whole and they way in which they strategized for dominance. They used stealth strategies and used white guilt/white male paternalism (chivalry) for their own ends, the old “noblesse oblige.”

    Whites thought they were helping out the poor, vanquished “little Asian brother,” and it is true, they were vanquished, but they had no idea that this “little Asian brother’s” culture had at its core all sorts of values and perspective that enabled them to survive the adversity of war, but to also use others’ strengths and turn them into weaknesses, ie., of the conquering whites, so, for example, that Westerners are now so beholden to the Chinese.

    It also indicates the importance of some “old school” values like an old-fashioned word “discretion,” that ladies were traditionally taught. Old school black folks would say “don’t put your business on the street!” In other words, avoid being indiscreet. So these women who talk about their husbands (and who mistreat them) are foolish. It’s not ladylike, and they run the risk of cultivating some serious garbage, either in pushing their husbands to leave, or in attracting the type of scavenger who would take advantage of their lack of discretion.

    Here is another risk–when others are being indiscreet, they sometimes expect the listener to share, as a matter of trust and female bonding: “I told you, so I expect you tell me” Thus a sojourner type can get caught up in drama, as you have spoken here. The sojourner gets to know too much information, or the woman with no discretion starts to feel competitive as she learns of the sojourner’s plans and strategies. It is hard to exercise a stealth strategy when people know what is going on!

    • NijaG says:

      PVW,

      You bring up some very important points. Stealth strategy and discretion are going to be key for Sojourner types to advance w/o having to deal with more than the usual road blocks others will put in their way.

      I’ve always been amazed at how the average American is so comfortable with putting “their business out on the street.” Then they act surprised when someone uses that information against them.

      Re: Asia, their cultural values, and their dominance strategies……

      I’m not an expert, but I’ve always said that the reason why China and Japan did not dominate the world in the past was because Europeans in general where usually 1-2 steps ahead in terms of technology (which they usually stole and adapted from others: think gunpowder originally from China). The second was that the various European nations were always willing to put aside their animosity towards each other and band together to conquer and exploit those they considered much different from themselves.

      Like you said though, many of these Asian nations have being patiently waiting, studying the US, Europeans, and Africans and implementing strategies over the decades that would make them if not the dominate group, then at equal footing with the current powerful nations.

    • Karen says:

      PVW,

      ITA…

      ===================

      To add, not everyone that acts as your friend is your friend. The word friend is misused in the English language. Most of the people we know are acquaintances and perhaps a handful (with a bit of luck) are truly friends.

      I can only stress that you can learn more by listening than speaking (observe the actions versus the words)and always be very frugal with what you share with others.

      • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

        This is good advice. I admit that I have been tricked by the behavior. I let my guard down, but in the future I will be more frugal with what I share.