Review: Don’t Bring Home a White Boy: And Other Notions that Keep Black Women From Dating Out

THE REVIEW

Much has been written about African-American women being one of the demographic groups in the US who are least likely to be married. However, little of it has explored why so many African-American women are hesitant to increase their odds of finding a suitable husband by dating and marrying interracially. In Don’t Bring Home a White Boy: And Other Notions that Keep Black Women From Dating Out, writer Karyn Langhorne Folan offers a penetrating look at the various misguided “notions” that prevent African-American women from expanding their dating and marriage pool to include quality White men as potential husbands.

In a book that is beautifully written and meticulously researched, Karyn Folan refutes each self-defeating taboo about interracial dating and marriage that serves to keep many African-American women unhappily single. Along the way, Ms. Folan paints unforgettable portraits of little-known persons and incidents from African-American history, including:

(1) The dark-skinned, 15-year old Black girl who refused to give up her seat to a White passenger on a Montgomery, Alabama city bus nine months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. This brave teenager was deemed “too dark,””too feisty,” and too poor to be the representative plaintiff for the civil rights movement.

(2) The 1959 Tallahassee, Florida case where an all-White jury convicted four White men of gang-raping a young Black woman named Betty Jean Owens. This is especially significant when viewed in comparison to the current “stop snitching” culture among many African-Americans that allows sexual violence against Black women and girls to go unpunished.

(3) The esteemed 19th century White geologist who pretended to be a light-skinned Black man in order to marry a Black woman.

In her clear and elegant prose, Ms. Folan addresses the fear that underlies many African-American women’s reluctance to expand their dating and marriage horizons. Fear of how Black men will react. Fear of being socially ostracized from the African-American community. Fear of exploring the previously unknown social experiences and settings that interracial relationships can bring. She also poses an important, potentially life-altering series of questions to readers that every African-American woman needs to consider:

“Who is living in your skin: you or the brothas? You or the entire Black community? You or the fears of the resentment of others?”

In short, Ms. Folan’s book is a refreshing and long overdue examination of the misguided taboos that hinder African-American women from exploring all of their dating and marriage options. A world of expanded options for happiness awaits those Black women who read this book and take inspiration from it.

THEME FOR DISCUSSION: THE DANGERS OF BELIEVING HISTORICAL FAIRY TALES

During my vacation last December, I listened to a lecture by an American professor who had been sent by the US Army to serve as an exchange officer in the French Foreign Legion. [Among other topics, I enjoy military history and I’ve always been fascinated by the French Foreign Legion.] This happened near the end of the Vietnam War. I was horrified by one of the points that he made. He said that most Americans learn their history from historical novels (many of which are made into television miniseries). This is why he wrote a historical novel (instead of a straight history book) about the Vietnam War.

I was horrified because he’s right. And even worse, the same observation applies to how most Americans learn about current events.

People hear sound bites from blow-dried television news anchors, bits of dialogue from a miniseries, and then become emotionally invested in believing that this is an accurate representation of historical and current events. This often skewed material becomes the basis for cherished historical fairy tales.

Every culture and subculture has its own set of cherished historical fairy tales. I’ve had the experience of watching White Americans become enraged when it’s mentioned that their beloved “Founding Fathers” were slaveowners, and most likely slave-rapists. I’ve watched African-American men become enraged when anyone mentions the many Black male civil rights activists and Pan-Africanists who were preoccupied with (and married to) White women. I’ve watched the disappointment and disgust that many African-American women feel when they learn that Dr. King repeatedly cheated on Coretta Scott King. Like real life, real history is filled with nuances and shades of gray. Historical fairy tales like the ones that form most African-Americans’ understanding of their history are sufficient for small children who are too young to understand nuances. However, historical fairy tales are not sufficient for adults. And they’re not a sufficient basis for making important life decisions.

African-American women have bought into a series of historical fairy tales. Unfortunately, too many Black women use these historical fairy tales as justifications for making self-defeating, life-damaging decisions. Meanwhile, Black men have never let their history of being lynched because of White women slow them down from marrying White women, and leaving the Black community to live in White areas.

One of the main historical fairy tales that many African-American women believe to their detriment can be summarized as “I must limit myself to dating African-American men because Black men and Black women are all in it together.”

Well . . . umm, no. When you take the time to read a range of history books and memoirs, you see that Black men and women were never consistently “all in it together.” That’s a fairy tale that most Black women believe to their detriment.

Ms. Folan’s book mentions several incidents that challenge the mass fairy tale of “Black men and women were all in it together.” I referred to one in the book review (the dark-skinned teenage girl who was pushed aside in favor of Rosa Parks as the civil rights movement’s model plaintiff). Ms. Folan’s book also mentions the sordid and grotesque episode regarding Rev. James Bevel.

I can think of some other incidents. Let’s see: There were the complaints from Black women that W.E.B. DuBois only used light-skinned women with naturally wavy hair as cover models for Crisis magazine. There was Walter White of the NAACP abandoning his Black wife of over twenty years in favor of a White South African woman. There was Elijah Muhammad cheating on Sis. Clara Muhammad with dozens (if not hundreds) of light-skinned women (and allegedly, some underage girls). Min. Ishmael Muhammad, who is Elijah Muhammad’s illegitimate son by one of these light-skinned secretaries, is married to a Mexican woman.

[Some readers may wonder why I often cite Elijah Muhammad’s statements. I do so because I can appreciate the many things that he was correct about, without hero-worshipping him. He was a vile and corrupt individual who was also brave. He personally went to prison over his refusal to register for the draft or fight in the US Army. He was also wise about many things. Especially about the peculiar psychology of most African-Americans. Again, adult ways of understanding have to consider nuances.]

Oh, there was the Black Panthers’ focus on having sex with non-Black women, as well as their extreme misogyny. (See Bobby Seale’s autobiography A Lonely Rage for the details of the Panther leadership’s exploits while chasing non-Black women. ) There’s Rev. “Baby Daddy” Jesse Jackson who cheated on his wife. There was Ben Chavis paying out NAACP money to settle a sexual harassment suit from a female employee. There was Kweisi Mfume’s scandal at the NAACP involving his womanizing.

When you know the personal histories of the NAACP’s Black male leaders, and the silly Black women who have worked for the NAACP (like the ones who physically fought over Kweisi Mfume’s affections), then you’re not surprised by anything that organization does. This includes the annual madness of the NAACP Image Awards. This includes the West Palm Beach, Florida NAACP chapter’s original support of some of the now-convicted Dunbar Village gang-rapists. [For those who don’t know, the Dunbar Village gang-rapists were a group of Black youth who gang-raped a Black woman and forced her at gunpoint to perform oral sex on her 12-year old son. The mother told police that, before leaving, the assailants looked for a lighter to set the two on fire but couldn't find one. Most of the approximately ten assailants involved in this crime against humanity are still roaming free. Yet another bitter fruit of the "stop snitching" culture among African-Americans.]

From the beginning, most African-American organizations have been rotten to the core when it comes to Black women’s interests. Meanwhile, many Black women blindly support these organizations because we believe in the historical fairy tales that have been woven around them and their past leaders.
The modern list of episodes showing that Black men and women are not all in it together is nearly endless. But this pattern of Black men not “being in it together” with Black women didn’t start with the modern era. There’s an episode I came across while reading a biography of 19th century Black Nationalist, Martin Delany. The author mentions some quotes from Mr. Delany’s letters about Liberia:

“While he hailed the Liberian Declaration of Independence a week later, Delany declared that he regarded, ‘Liberia in its present state as having thwarted the design of the original schemers, the slaveholding founders, which evidently was intended, as they frequently proclaimed it, as a receptacle for the freed colored people and superannuated slaves of America; but we view it in the light of a source of subsequent enterprise, which no colored American should permit himself to lose sight of.’

The reverse of the coin? The head of the judicial system in independent Liberia was a Judge Benedict who was ‘a person of no force of character or fixed moral principles.’ It seems he had bought his wife out of slavery, and when she objected to his taking some mistresses, tried to sell her back into slavery.” Martin R. Delany: The Beginnings of Black Nationalism, pgs. 100-101 (emphasis added).

THE PERSONAL IS POLITICAL WHEN IT’S HYPOCRITICAL AND EXPLOITATIVE

When these sorts of things are mentioned, there are many African-American men who will enter the conversation to proclaim that “the personal is not political.” I’ve noticed some patterns to how many Black men use this slogan. Their use of this slogan is selective. The personal is not political as long as the “personal” activity is: (1) something that many Black men have done or are doing; (2) something that many Black men want to do; or (3) something the individual Black man using the “personal is not political” slogan can envision himself doing.

It’s amusing to see how quickly the personal becomes political for many African-American men when the “personal” activity doesn’t fit within these parameters. The primary example of this is anything involving gay men. A textbook example of this was what happened to Bayard Rustin. From what I recall, other Black male leaders drummed Bayard Rustin out of the SCLC because he was gay. Bayard Rustin’s personal life became extremely political for these other Black men at the time. Womanizers such as Adam Clayton Powell did not allow Bayard Rustin’s personal life to remain apolitical. Other Black male civil rights leaders, many of whom were serial adulterers, gave Bayard Rustin the bum’s rush out of the mainstream civil rights movement. Even though Mr. Rustin had a lot to do with organizing Dr. King’s March on Washington. And the excuse of “he was setting up the movement for blackmail” doesn’t apply because so did these other Black male leaders with their extramarital affairs!

It’s obvious that this common Black male activist behavior was hypocritical. Here’s why it was also exploitative. African-American women were encouraged to support Black male activists for the goal of advancing the African-American collective (which includes Black women and Black children). Not for the goal of supporting womanizing Black male activists so they can sexually exploit Black women. Not for the goal of supporting Black male activists so these men can take the resources gathered with Black women’s help to the non-Black women that many of them chased and married. These particular scenarios do not advance Black women’s interests. Nor do they reflect reciprocity.

PUT AWAY HISTORICAL FAIRY TALES AND OTHER CHILDISH THINGS

Some fairy tales are harmless. Others can have extremely destructive effects on the lives of those who believe them. African-American women are facing unprecedented circumstances and can’t afford to believe in historical fairy tales. Black women especially can’t afford to limit their marriage options based on fairy tales. And there’s no excuse for believing in fairy tales considering the information that’s available if you look for it. Let go of the historical fairy tales. Stop learning our people’s history from historical novels and television miniseries. Take the time to read the historical research that has already been done. You might feel differently about some issues after doing so.

COMING NEXT IN BOOK REVIEWS

The next book review will feature the memoir Perfection Is Not a Sitcom Mom by Janet Hubert, an actress who starred on the 1990s television show The Fresh Prince of Bel Air. You can also buy the book directly from Ms. Hubert’s website.

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51 Responses to “Review: Don’t Bring Home a White Boy: And Other Notions that Keep Black Women From Dating Out”

  1. pioneervalleywoman says:

    Khadija:

    When these sorts of things are mentioned, there are many African-American men who will enter the conversation to proclaim that “the personal is not political.” I’ve noticed some patterns to how many Black men use this slogan. Their use of this slogan is selective. The personal is not political as long as the “personal” activity is: (1) something that many Black men have done or are doing; (2) something that many Black men want to do; or (3) something the individual Black man using the “personal is not political” slogan can envision himself doing.

    It’s amusing to see how quickly the personal becomes political for many African-American men when the “personal” activity doesn’t fit within these parameters.

    My reply:

    And only black women’s interracial dating is seen as having negative political implications–the old “they raped our foremothers, so why date one of them…,” but somehow it is good politics for black men to date white women, because it significies them scoring against white men.

    • palmwater says:

      First off, great review Khadija. I’m going to have to get Karen’s book, I really enjoyed her use of case studies to get her point across.

      Pioneervalleywoman, it’s amazing that black men still get away with talking black while sleeping and marrying white.

      What amazes me is that many AAW repeat the “I could never date a white man since he raped my foremothers” statement. Yet they ignore that black men seem to be so forgiving of the actions of racist white women in the past.

      Aside from the lynchings let us not forget about the many black men who were falsely imprisoned due to eye witness testimony by white women. One such case is that of Ronald Cotton who spent over 10 years in jail for a rape he did not commit, due to the victims testimony. After DNA evidence cleared him of the crime, he later forgave the victim, and they have since become good friends. This black man was able to forgive this white women for putting him in jail! Now let’s be real, if it was a white man that did this instead of a white woman how forgiving do you think he would be?

      His case is not the only one, I’m sure Khadija as a lawyer has knowledge of such cases. These black men were able to forgive white women for their transgressions, yet black women are to always be held hostage to the rape mantra!

  2. Jules says:

    Khadija,

    You have done a wonderful piece. I so appreciate your honest review of Karyn’s book, it is the best review I have read so far. It was upstanding to review and recommend the book when you have a current book on the market as well; this really shows how topnotch an individual you are. I have both books and I consider them required reading for any black woman looking for mental evolution.

    Each time I think you have outdone yourself with an entry you seem to top it. This latest entry is simply fantastic, I only wish I had these messages twenty years ago. Because of the BWE movement I am hopeful for the next generation. As I said before, no BWE blogger should ever doubt the value of the work she is doing. If only one woman is touched that one person will have an effect on generations of black women to come. May God continue to bless you ALL.

  3. PioneerValleyWoman,

    At this point, I tune out most statements about marriage/relationships made by most AA men. With the vast majority of them, whatever commentary they give is totally dishonest and self-serving.

    If an AA man has an established track record of telling the truth AND of looking out for BW’s and Black girls’ interests, then I’ll listen to him. Other than that, whatever they’re saying is just noise.
    _____________________________

    Jules,

    Thank you so much for your kind words; I truly appreciate it. You said, “As I said before, no BWE blogger should ever doubt the value of the work she is doing. If only one woman is touched that one person will have an effect on generations of black women to come. May God continue to bless you ALL.”

    I’m hopeful that a small percentage of AA women will take heed and save themselves (as well as their children).

    Wa baraka Allahu feek! ["And may God bless you!"]

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  4. Miss V says:

    I will purchase Mrs. Folan’s book as well as yours, Khadijah. If I’ve learned nothing else about men in general, and black men in particular is that they will make sure that they’re needs and wants are met with or without their mates. I’ve tried telling a sista that not too long ago, and she just didn’t get it, even after raising a son, whose father had long abandoned him. I’ve decided to keep my mouth shut and go about the business of living my life and finding the love I deserve.

  5. Truth p. says:

    Thank you for the essay Khadija.YOU are greatly appreciated.Thank you for your sharp, knife-cut to-the-heart, honesty.It can be very painful but it is for my own good.

    All I could think about when reading this essay was BW reparations.How sad that so many black women fought,were raped and killed so that others can partake in the freedoms that many of them never even got to taste of due to mass denial and indoctrination based on half truths and blatant falsehoods.I feel on behalf of all those women I owe it to myself to live my best life and do whatever is in my best interest regardless of what some in my family,the b/c or anybody may think.

    I am still deeply saddened and somewhat depressed by the neglect of bw,despite personal involvement, in the civil rights movements and every other movement involving black folks until now.I kinda feel like “pouring out a little liqour” in rememberance of all these women.I’m thinking about starting up my own site dedicated to highlighting the accomplishments and achievements of bw throughout history.It is very important that bw and girls learn about all these women and that we keep and share documents of our own unique history and of our accomplishments.

  6. MissV,

    Thank you for your support; I truly appreciate it!

    As you’ve noted, men will make sure that their needs are met. More AA women need to do the same!
    ____________________________________________

    TruthP.,

    You’re welcome! You said, “All I could think about when reading this essay was BW reparations.”

    My goodness! That’s something that never occurred to me. The thing about reparations is that, by the time a group is strong enough to get reparations, they don’t need it anymore.

    You said, “I am still deeply saddened and somewhat depressed by the neglect of bw,despite personal involvement, in the civil rights movements and every other movement involving black folks until now.I kinda feel like “pouring out a little liqour” in rememberance of all these women.”

    I understand that feeling. I think the best way to pay tribute to these women is for more AA women to take advantage of the ALL the opportunities that weren’t available to these women, and LIVE WELL!

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  7. NijaG says:

    I am still deeply saddened and somewhat depressed by the neglect of bw,despite personal involvement, in the civil rights movements and every other movement involving black folks until now.I kinda feel like “pouring out a little liqour” in rememberance of all these women.I’m thinking about starting up my own site dedicated to highlighting the accomplishments and achievements of bw throughout history.It is very important that bw and girls learn about all these women and that we keep and share documents of our own unique history and of our accomplishments.
    **************************************************************

    I think a website would be great. I’ve seen many times online where black men (mostly the Gen Xers and beyond), explicitly or implicitly suggest and even state that the benefits black women have today is solely based on their (BM’s) efforts during the Civil Right’s era and the movements in the historical past and current times. I always shake my head when I read such things. While I’m not expert on AA history, I know for a fact that BW have always been an intricate part of any movement past or present that has helped and benefited the black community as a whole.

  8. Foxycleopatra says:

    I really think that it is very necessary that some sort of resource which documents the work that black women did in both the civil rights and women’s rights movements are documented. I’ve encountered way to many negroes saying that bw didn’t do much during those times so I think the truth needs to be told.

  9. Palmwater,

    Thank you for your kind words; I truly appreciate it.
    __________________________________________

    NijaG & Foxycleopatra,

    I think it’s fine for more AA women to actually read up on their own history. But for their OWN benefit. In particular to prevent AA women from making critical life decisions based on what they saw in a tv miniseries.

    However, I think it’s a TOTAL waste of time to try to “prove” anything to BM. Including anything about how BW did much of the grunt work, took the same LIFE-threatening risks, and took on the ADDITIONAL risk of being raped by White segregationists in the civil rights struggle. And then, after doing all of this, were often used and betrayed by the BM activists that they had risked their lives to support.

    My observation of those sorts of “conversations” is that the vast majority of the BM participants are basically dishonest, self-serving and speaking in near-complete bad faith. Here’s the behavior pattern that they usually display during these sorts of conversations:

    First, they will lie and deny that many of these things happened.

    Then, when confronted with documentation of what these BM activists did, most BM conversation participants will say that it doesn’t matter. This is when you will hear the “personal is not political” bad-faith argument.

    This totally disregards that these WW-chasing/marrying BM activists were basically PROVING the WM segregationists to be correct when they said that BM were doing this in order to have increased sexual access to WW. BM activists’ behavior pattern proved the WM segregationists to have been correct when they said that a desire for “race-mixing” was the BM activists’ TRUE motivation—not so much a desire for voting rights, and the other stated goals of the movement. This voting rights stuff was just a Trojan horse to get to what they really wanted.

    The “personal is not political” bad-faith argument also ignores the fact that activists’ failures to practice what they preach undermines whatever work they’re doing. In addition to the AAW who were taken advantage of, I wonder how many AAW STAYED AWAY from civil rights activism because they could see what was actually going on. Some truth in advertising about what participation in the civil rights movement meant for those BW would have been to say:

    ‘Hear ye, hear ye Black women. We Black male leaders want you to risk your lives on the front lines of the civil rights movement. Do thankless grunt work. Risk getting beaten AND gang-raped by Southern racists (NOBODY EVER mentions this angle to throwing Black women on the front lines of the civil rights movement). All so many of us BM leaders can pose in front of the cameras, cheat on our Black wives, chase White women, and have sex with movement groupies.’

    It’s impossible to quantify, but I wonder how many BW did NOT participate in the civil rights struggle because of the BM activists’ behavior, thereby delaying the legitimate progress that was made in that struggle.

    There are other practical, LIFE & DEATH implications that BM’s bad-faith personal is not political” arguments ignore:

    All resistance movements require a certain level of trust between their members; as well as between the members and the leadership. You can’t have an atmosphere of trust with people who have demonstrated that they have NO integrity.

    Let’s consider Walter White of the NAACP for a moment. This is somebody who cheated on and dumped his Black wife of 20+ years to take up with a White SOUTH AFRICAN woman. How much value does anyone think he assigned to the Black members or followers of the NAACP? How obligated did he feel to keep any promises he made while operating in a leadership capacity?

    If you’re a lowly, poor, Black 1950s NAACP civil rights worker in the deep South, would you knowingly trust somebody like Walter White with making decisions and directives that could potentially send you to your death? Would you really feel like he values you? Or your life?

    Furthermore, another practical point is that it’s VERY difficult for any organization to be effective when its leaders are PRIMARILY focused on having sex with as many followers and groupies as possible. That’s a large part of what has been CONSISTENTLY wrong with the BM who have been in charge of the NAACP. Any activist, leader, or commander who is that foolish is NOT fit to lead or command. All an enemy has to do is send in an agent who is willing to have sex with such leaders.

    But NONE of these practical considerations matter to the BM who demand that BW believe in fairy tales about “sacred cow” BM activists and leaders of the civil rights movement. It’s a waste of time talking to them about any of this. They don’t care. All they want to do is defend male privilege.

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  10. YMB says:

    Thanks for highlighting Ms. Folan’s book, Khadija! I’d seen it elsewhere but it wasn’t immediately apparent what a treasure it was. I will adding this one to my collection also.

    You said, However, I think it’s a TOTAL waste of time to try to “prove” anything to BM.

    That’s right. They don’t have to know. WE need to know, and not ever let ourselves be bamboozled again.

  11. CW says:

    Don’t have too much right now but did want to let everyone know:

    I am formulating a review of Karyn;s book…

    And Khadija, I’m about to start yours NOW!

  12. JaliliMaster says:

    Khadija, your last comment just went to a whole other level. I only ever viewed these BM civil rights activist lack of integrity as serious character flaws that, in my opinion, made them completely inadequate for leadership, especially when it came to issues concerning life and death. It never actually occurred to me that these men could not and should not be trusted in any way to be making decisions for, and negotiating on behalf of anybody least of all the AA’s who had donated their money and time to this organisation.

    Some months ago, I decided to read up a bit on the NAACP’s history. Can you believe that there was not one single Negro leader of the organistion who I could HONESTLY point to and say he was an honest man WITHOUT ANY RESERVATIONS OR ‘BUTS’! I then went further back into the NAACP’s history, and I wasn’t even surprised when it occurred to me that quite a few of the non-Black (from their names and pictures, they appearred Jewish to me) men who held high up leadership positions. The way they lived their lives showed much greater moral fibre than the BM who were at the helm more recently. I was actually a bit ashamed, and I’m not even AA! And if I noticed it, I dount there are many others who haven’t as well.

  13. ***Note to Readers***

    In making this new site the kind of project that’s sustainable for me over the long-run, I’ve had to streamline how I handle certain things. The comments section is one of them. What this means is that I’ll give substantive responses to those folks who enter the conversations early (as I did across the board at the previous blog).

    After each post is a couple of days old, I’ll generally continue to publish new comments from readers. (That meet the commenting guidelines as set forth at the previous blog—those who are unfamiliar can read the comment “box” at the previous blog.)

    But, after a each post is a couple of days old, I generally WON’T continue responding to new comments.

    [In other words, I'll continue to publish comments to this post, but I'm not going to reply to anymore comments in this thread. FYI.]

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  14. Shecodes says:

    One could literally write a book that contained nothing but examples that proved that black men and women were NEVER ‘in it together’.

    Consider Eldridge Cleaver, who had the unmitigated gall to proudly document his prowess at RAPING black (and white) women… and had the nerve to call it an ‘insurrectionary act’. He is so (correctly) sure that he won’t suffer any consequence, that he openly wrote about it.

    The book ‘Soul on Ice’ is a best seller, and to my knowledge, he has NEVER been challenged about it by his fellow black male activists.

    Consider the fact that most black men did NOT believe that black women should get the right to vote during the civil rights era… even though black women routinely were being murdered, tortured, and bitten by police dogs right beside them. That was the main reason for the alliance between white and black women (feminism) during that time, and the black male activists never forgave black women for it.

    • mochachoc says:

      Funny, I don’t remember my American Studies tutor mentioning this when Eldridge Cleaver’s work was discussed. I’m disgusted. How dare he?

  15. Didi says:

    This is such a thought-provoking review of Ms Folan’s book. Your comments in addition to those posted by Halima about the so-called Pan-african “freedom fighters” who pursued or wedded non-black women really brings home the point to ALL black woment that we are on our own and must “save our own lives”. More black women need to hear the truth and I disseminate as much information as I can to friends and family and urge them to do likewise. Trouble is many still blindly refuse to accept the truth staring them in the face. I attribute this to fear of leaving or being ostracized from the community and lack of self-esteem. It has been drummed into our heads for so long that we are ugly and unloveable so many refuse to risk rejection. But it is better to try and hopefully succeed in living well than to pine away imagining what might have been.
    Also can someone please explain to me what is this disease inherent in BM which propels them to crave sex with as many women as possible?? It is sickening and yet another reason to avoid them like the plague!

  16. Shecodes says:

    @Didi:

    Black men not intrinsically different from any other men. ALL men crave sex with as many women as possible. We see differences in stereotypical behaviors of bm because typically, our collectives(notice that I didn’t say ‘communities’) fail to police the behavior of men who operate in ways that harm the collective. Most other societies do.

    In fact, the black collective REWARDS the destructive behavior of damaged bm and often moves to protect them from the consequences of their behavior. The black collective is comprised of black men AND black women… so if all bm should be ‘avoided like the plague’, then so should all bw, because 95% of bw support,excuse or ignore that behavior right along with their male counterparts, thereby encouraging it to continue.

    • Didi says:

      Thanks Shecodes for pointing out that while many men have the potential to act like dogs, BM are rarely called out for it or even worse, hailed. It has always troubled me that BM get away with certain behaviours – at least within the black collective, now I can understand one of the reasons this happens.
      And yes, I would glsdly avoid the 95% of BW who support and legitimize the actions of such men!

  17. Karen R. says:

    Hi,

    Great review. I can’t afford you all, but I would love to see you and other BWE bloggers like CW, the author of “What About Our Daughters” organize a retreat!!! Seriously, you all should think about organizing a conference – SOON!!!

    • Karen says:

      @Karen R,

      With all due respect, in theory it would be a good idea. However, the reality is that there are too many DBRs, Ike/Ikettes that would jump at the chance to have “live targets”.

      I personally would not recommend any of these women to risk their physical safety or privacy to be exposed to the public in such a fashion.

      • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

        So true.

        If I recall some IR mixers were hosted in the past and the DBRs came out to intimidate/crash attendees.

        I personally was anticipating a tour coming to my area and when I Googled the tour’s response/feedback it would bring up reports from DBRBM who stalked/staked out this event – from what the women were wearing etc- to how many showed up – of course these were all hateful mean spirited critiques of the womens’ appearances, their motives for attending, but the fact that the DBRs gave so much detail showed they were there or nearby.

        Re: Civil Rights

        It has been a while since I talked to a BM except one in my family and I wanted to say not only do BM deny that such happened to BW at the hands of BM at that time, but they believe even greater insanities about BW, slavery, and civil rights.

        I can remember some years ago having BM tell me that BW had it easier during both slavery and the civil rights movement. I have had some BM say BW were never slaves technically – not like the BM. I have had some BM say that BW were always in collusion with the WM to oppress the BM during civil rights. I don’t know where they get this from, but some have said that BW were just maids, cooks, and prostitutes. Yes prostitutes.

        I have had some BM hint that all BW had to do was simply prostitute themselves during slavery in order to make her life easier. And that most BW did the same willingly during civil rights.

        At the time I brushed stuff like this aside, but I heard it enough from enough men, particularly young ones – to realize now that there is probably enough of them out there who think/believe this trash.

        • lisa99 says:

          Oh, and get this… piggybacking off what you said… I’ve also heard BM say that BM were MORE affected than BW by the rapes of BW. Why? Because the BM had to watch his woman being violated and couldn’t do anything about it, therefore, his manhood was stripped… which supposedly made the rape worse for him.

          I’m used to a lot of DBR talk by now, but THAT took the cake for me right there… the actual person being raped is less damaged, but the man watching is MORE damaged because his manhood is assaulted? OMG…

          As for meet-ups… I think they “could” work if they were not highly publicized. People who are interested in this need some kind of underground railroad-style communication, in which meetups are limited to small groups of TRUSTWORTHY BW and the non-BM they know and the word is spread by word-of-mouth.

          I liked the idea of the “Free Your Mind” seminar (I think that’s what you’re referring to), but I had the same thought… since it gained national attention, I could see how DBRBM could invade future ones and harm the women there. Is this possibly why I didn’t hear anything more about them after the initial one in L.A.?

  18. Temporarily popping back into the conversation for a moment:

    Every AAW, especially those with ANY level of public attention should keep security implications and issues in mind. This is why I did the following post at the previous blog. http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2009/08/table-talk-for-activists-part-7-open.html

    In terms of public gatherings that AAW sponsor, I would highlight the following points from that post:

    “In terms of any offline gatherings that you sponsor, I would strongly urge you to hire security. From what I’ve been told, several Internet Ike Turners are making threats of physically disrupting future events sponsored by and for African-American women. You need to take these threats seriously and prepare for them.

    As an additional step, I would urge event organizers to hire a private investigator to film and photograph EVERY Black male that:

    (1) Seeks entry into the event (since they have no legitimate reason for being there unless they are an invited speaker); and/or

    (2) loiters around outside the event; and/or

    (3) appears to be watching who’s going in and out of any event that you’re sponsoring.

    Some of the Internet Ike Turners might not be bold enough to try to physically crash your event; but some of them will want to conduct hostile surveillance on the Black women who attend your event. You need to watch the people who are watching you. This is what law enforcement agencies do in terms of filming activists at protest marches.”
    *************************************

    As Shecodes mentioned, BM aren’t unique among other men in wanting to sexually access and/or exploit as many women as possible. The difference is that other types of men police the behavior of the other males within their own groups. Within each Black ethnicity/nationality, the “Black world” is fairly unique in having the MASS absence of male protectors for the women and children of that society. How else do you end up with a Dunbar Village? How else do you end up with an entire country being a playground for rapists such as the Congo?

    I will add that these Satanic environments (Dunbar Village, the Congo) exist in part due to the collaboration of BW who excuse, aid and abet violence (including rape) against other women and girls. [See the many BW who support R.Kelly and Chris Brown.]
    *************************************

    In terms of what Oshun/Aprodite mentioned, this is another manifestation of large numbers of AA males being uniquely NON-protective of their women and children, and uniquely unmanly. In a patriarchal world, real men understand that whatever happens with the women of their group is a reflection on them and their successes or failures as protectors and providers for their women and children.

    For a contrasting example, I have NEVER heard Jewish men say that Jewish women had it “easier” during their Holocaust because they were raped by Nazis. Or that the Holocaust “wasn’t as bad for Jewish women” because they could try to prostitute themselves to Nazis.

    You won’t hear real men competing with their women to see who was/is the bigger victim.

    The point is not to try to prove anything to the weak, conquered males who believe these sorts of things. The point is for AAW to understand the actual history so they won’t be duped into one-sided, NON-reciprocated support of BM ever again.

    {leaving the conversation}

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

    • mochachoc says:

      “You won’t hear real men competing with their women to see who was/is the bigger victim.

      The point is not to try to prove anything to the weak, conquered males who believe these sorts of things. The point is for AAW to understand the actual history so they won’t be duped into one-sided, NON-reciprocated support of BM ever again.”

      ***clapping in total agreement. Preach it.***

  19. YMB says:

    In looking for the original Washington Post article which inspired Karyn Longhorne Folan’s book, I came across a profile of Mrs. Folan which discussed the book, her marriage (with family photos), and also mentioned a few BWE websites. Black Women Being Urged to Date Outside Race“.

    As articles on this topic always do, the article generated a lot of comments- 547. I’ve recently been somewhat fatigued by the number of such articles, especially the needy sickly portrayal of IRR-interested AAW that many of these engage in. There is the upside of having more AAW get exposed to BWE blogs/sites and to their messages.

    I looked at some of the many comments on the article and it was still the same tired conversation as 10 years ago: DBR black men claiming to be the ultimate authorities on what black women want and need, numerous slave master comments (always forgetting that white women owned and abused slaves also), AA women and men claiming that white men are not interested in marrying AAW, despite the marriage of the Folans, and comments from several white men who were happily married to black women for decades, and one who lamented that the love of his life was an AAW who let her family bully her into ending the relationship. And of course there were the accusations of Mrs. Folan’s book being a “hustle” that profits off of desperate AAW. Surprisingly, I never hear such accusations leveled at the multiply-divorced Steve Harvey, who doesn’t appear to have any personal or professional qualifications for dispensing relationship advice. I also didn’t remember hearing such comments about the women who wrote ‘The Rules’, or the man who wrote ‘Rich Dad, Poor Dad’, or Suze Orman for that matter. No, it’s only wrong for black women to provide desired and valuable guidance and also make a profit at the same time.

    I am happy to see more AAW who get it and the non-BM who love them speaking up in these conversations.Change is slow, but it’s coming.

    • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

      I went over and peeked at the conversation and it made my head hurt. But is was full of the usual – try to make the conversation about the BM, why don’t BW do x, y, z to get a BM? I even saw where one idiot (as a dig towards educated BW) said education doesn’t build communities. Now I know the apocalypse is among us.

  20. pioneervalleywoman says:

    Khadija:

    In a patriarchal world, real men understand that whatever happens with the women of their group is a reflection on them and their successes or failures as protectors and providers for their women and children.

    My reply:

    And what is remarkable, is that when you read historical accounts of those who really experienced slavery, enslaved black men and women from then and even the writings of black male activists from the late 19th c. and 20th c., they spoke of the ways in which they saw black women victims of rape or sexual coercion, for example, as being victimized by circumstances beyond their control. There were black families from back then who worked overtime, for example, to prevent their daughters from having to work in white women’s houses. There were men who did not want that for their wives and daughters.

    This is important because there have always been men, regardless of racial or ethnic group, who are willing to recognize that the women can be vulnerable and that it is their job as men to stand by and protect them, or at least, stand by them when they become victims. It is only in the black community that there is a massive unwillingness to recognize that black women can be vulnerable.

    By the late 19th c. and early 20th c. in particular, writers like WEB Dubois and Booker T. Washington were writing about their interests in encouraging black men as men to protect their families and communities. They took it upon themselves to protest the treatment the men and women of their communities received.

  21. Foxycleopatra says:

    lisa99 said:
    “Oh, and get this… piggybacking off what you said… I’ve also heard BM say that BM were MORE affected than BW by the rapes of BW. Why? Because the BM had to watch his woman being violated and couldn’t do anything about it, therefore, his manhood was stripped… which supposedly made the rape worse for him.”

    I said:
    I have heard this nonsense too although it was not in face to face conversations but I’ve witnessed it in online conversations. What irked me most is that some of the women involved in these conversations were actually willing to accept such notions as valid. I think that it is part of the constant effort to:

    1. Lessen the extent to which black women have suffered just the same as black men.

    2. Invalidate black women as human beings capable of feeling emotion and being vulnerable.

    3. The usual attempts to turn anything possible to always end up being about black men.

  22. sistrunkqueen says:

    Well the AA community will not let black women leave the matrix willingly or
    without scars. They want us to be content with mediocrity. We have become obsolete and easily manipulated. A lot of BW in my town(atlanta) are totally disgusted by the dating issues here and a few have left this city. BW need to relocate to cities where there are more men than women and cultural diversity. I have a former gf who has lost her income due to budget cuts and she as well as others in her field have lost up to 6 percent of her salary. I have one gf who has a very shaky job and could be laid off at anytime. Her mom was recently laid off. I know some bw who luckily found jobs and relocated to other cities. Sisters we have to have an escape plan. I have and I am doing what I need to do.

    • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

      “A lot of BW in my town(atlanta) are totally disgusted by the dating issues here and a few have left this city.”

      Good for them! You couldn’t pay me enough to move to the ATL. I used to think that was the place in the South, now I think its more of a cesspool.

  23. Brenda says:

    I was lectured last month about my white significant other by the BM boyfriend of one of my BW friends. The usual stuff.

    I told him that everytime I ever needed help, it was a white man that helped me. And I’m 34 years old now. You may call that a coincidence, and you may also call it a coincidence that my white boyfriend is kind and thoughtful and generous to me all the time (not just when he wants something). He loves me and treats me well. I’m happy.

    But I’m a traitor. I need to be more patient with black men because they’ve been oppressed, so it’s natural that they would want to treat me badly. I’m acting white. I’m filled with self-hate. And so forth.

    I don’t think all BM are bad. And I don’t tell other BW not to date BM. I don’t get all crazy when BM chase after WW. All I want is a little reicprocity here. I’m happy. My man treats me better than any man has ever treated me, and I don’t mean just a little better. So leave me alone. Take that whole black guilt thing and sell it somewhere else.

    • JaliliMaster says:

      That creature was VERY rude. You should tell your friend to tell her boyfriend to back off! And if she cannot/refuses to see what is inherently wrong with her loser of a boyfriends behaviour, then you should drop her as she is no friend. Moreover, what sort of ‘friend’ would let their bloke harass one of her close friends because of the ethnicity of her boyfriend.

      The only way he could have had the gall to do that to you is if both he and his girlfriend (your friend) had already had a conversation concerning you dating choices and she expressed a similar disapproval to who you are dating.

    • YMB says:

      What a vile commentary! It is natural for a person to avoid mistreatment when at all possible. So if it is natural for BM to mistreat BW, then it is natural for BW to seek relationships with other types of men.

    • Karen says:

      What fascinates me with the exchange that you just shared is why this BM boyfriend of one of your BW friends thought he could even lecture you????

      There are some serious violations of boundaries here. Unless you directly asked for his opinion, then he had absolutely no right to even speak to you about it.

      If it were me, I would clearly set boundaries with him and the BW friend. If they could not respect them, then they would cease to be friends.

      One last point as a suggestion, when someone comes at you that way, you are in no way obligated to defend your life choices. By engaging him, you gave him the indication that he had a right to lecture you.

      If such a thing were to ever happen again, I would kindly suggest you to not engage with simply the phrase, “it is my life and not open to discussion….PERIOD.”

      • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

        “One last point as a suggestion, when someone comes at you that way, you are in no way obligated to defend your life choices. By engaging him, you gave him the indication that he had a right to lecture you.”

        Great advice Karen! I see where I have allowed the this to happen a lot in my life in the past.

    • mochachoc says:

      Good for you. It cheers my heart when Black women declare they are in a loving relationship.

  24. sistrunkqueen says:

    Brenda
    You may need to get new friends.

  25. Kim says:

    Khadija,

    I just read a good portion of your book, and I’d just like to say I have been reading your blog since last year and I think the book will benifit many black women, but early on it the book you qouted Elijah Muhammed who said “money, good homes, and friendship in all walks of life”, which may be true, but why chose to quote a known adulterer and whoremonger, who perpetuated some of the same poor behaviors many of the DBR black males you warn black women to avoid do, it’s hard to take his advice along with the Steve Haveys and the like who don’t pratice what they preach. Another thing that seemed strange to me is you didn’t refer to you god as Allah in your book, I found that strange for a praticing Muslim, was this to come accross more neutral to the potential audience who can be biased against anyone not following “Jesus”? When it came to condemning African American Sunni Muslims it took you a whole chapter to do so. There seemed to be a bit of hesitation, or eggshell walking as you discussed the dysfunctions in the African American Sunni Muslim Community, I bring this up because I have never seen you hesitate to cut down on anything that is oppressing black women, but here you seemed hesitant. I know the issue may be a bit more near and dear to your heart, but I didn’t understand why you tip toed during that subject. I am an American living in a little island in the middle-east called Bahrain, and because of that I paid close attention to what you were saying in regards to muslims. I just found it strange you were willing to stick it out in your religious community, but so quick to remove yourself for the so called “black community”. Personally, I am “black” Jew. So I understand how intrinsic faith can be in one’s lifestyle, beliefs, and relationships, but I don’t know if it was intentional or not you seemed hesitant about confronting the issues of oppression in regards to your religion, or rather the most dominant in your reigion claimimg to be Muslims. Also I found the portion interesting that talked about crowns and how colorism takes darker women’s crown’s and how lighter women didn’t have a problem with it until other-raced women started benifiting from colorism over them. What I found most interesting was you may have cared back in the day, but most of the lighter women still don’t, and darker women know, if things were back like they used to be, most light women would still keep silent and take advantage of the colorism when they are the primary benafactors. As long as any sub group of African Americans can benifit from white supremacy history has shown they will take full advantage to harm of the collective blacks race. This goes into the widespread distrust we have among ourselves. There is and will never be any healthy relationships without trust. Also all the books on tagged to your Amazon page about IR relationships just looked desperate and tacky. Just my 2 cents.

  26. **Amended reply comment**

    Kim,

    Hmmm . . . I’ll bite…you’ve temporarily drawn me back into this conversation with your . . . curious . . . and suspicious comments.

    You said, “I just read a good portion of your book, and I’d just like to say I have been reading your blog since last year and I think the book will benifit many black women, but early on it the book you qouted Elijah Muhammed who said “money, good homes, and friendship in all walks of life”, which may be true, but why chose to quote a known adulterer and whoremonger, who perpetuated some of the same poor behaviors many of the DBR black males you warn black women to avoid do, it’s hard to take his advice along with the Steve Haveys and the like who don’t pratice what they preach.”

    RESPONSE: I’m a firm believer in giving credit where it is due regardless of whether or not I have any affection for the person to whom credit is due; and also in repeating a truthful word, no matter who said it first.

    The (often-forgotten) difference between Elijah Muhammad and others one might name, such as Steve Harvey, is that through the ripple-effects of his teachings, Elijah Muhammad literally has saved many AA lives. Directly and indirectly. Many AAs who have spent any period of time living in all-Black residential areas owe our very lives to the ripple-effect of his teachings.

    Every violent BM criminal that has been reformed by Elijah Muhammad’s teachings was at minimum, potentially, on a collision course with any AA living in (or passing through) all-Black residential areas. How many carjackings were NOT committed because large numbers of violent BM criminals adopted his teachings? How many armed robberies didn’t occur?

    If you have spent any amount of time living in, or passing through, all-Black residential areas, one of the Black lives that was indirectly saved by his teachings might have been yours. Or the life of one of your loved ones.

    Despite his hypocrisy, Elijah Muhammad’s (heretical and not truly Islamic) teachings have reformed and indirectly saved more AA lives by accident than any other program has ever accomplished by design. I give credit where it is due. I don’t have to like or respect somebody to simply tell the truth, the whole truth about the things that they accomplished despite their wicked traits.

    You said, “Another thing that seemed strange to me is you didn’t refer to you god as Allah in your book, I found that strange for a praticing Muslim, was this to come accross more neutral to the potential audience who can be biased against anyone not following “Jesus”?”

    RESPONSE: Hmmm . . . you say that you’re a “black Jew,” but yet you’re using a phraseology that I mostly hear from Black Christians—specifically Black Protestants—this phrase/notion of “your, my, their God.”

    As a Muslim, it’s objectionable to me to use the terminology of “your, my, their God.” To phrase it like that implies that there is somehow more than one God. Muslims believe that there is only ONE God, who is single and indivisible. So, according to my faith tradition, there cannot be “my God” and “your God” and “their God,” because there is only One, True God. Now, there are folks who are worhshipping what I and other Muslims believe to be false so-called gods. But what they’re worshipping has nothing to do with the One, True God.

    So, there’s no “my God,” there is only God who is the One, True God for everybody. “Allah” is simply the Arabic word that translates to “God.” Although I use both the Arabic and English word for “God” interchangeably, since I am an English-speaking person, I mostly use the English word “God” when speaking of God in verbal communication.

    Now, there are some Muslim religious terms that are best left in their orginal Arabic words because there are hugely different shades of meaning from the English language translation of these terms. For example, the English word “prayer” is vague and encompasses what are thought of as 2 separate concepts in Islam: “salat” and “dua”. Salat is the ritual prayer that has a specific, prescribed format at scheduled times throughout the day. Dua is the more informal, personal prayer that doesn’t have a prescribed format or scheduled time.

    Also, considering some of the inflammatory opinions that I clearly state in the book, I don’t see how anybody could conclude that I bit my tongue in any way or for any reason.

    You said, “When it came to condemning African American Sunni Muslims it took you a whole chapter to do so.”

    RESPONSE: And how is this a problem? I don’t see one. Furthermore, I recognize that the majority of AAs are unfamiliar with the huge distinctions between Sunni (“orthodox”) Islam among AAs and the Nation of Islam. Therefore, I felt that a more detailed explanation of the different dynamics of these 2 main categories of AA Muslims was necessary.

    You said, “There seemed to be a bit of hesitation, or eggshell walking as you discussed the dysfunctions in the African American Sunni Muslim Community, I bring this up because I have never seen you hesitate to cut down on anything that is oppressing black women, but here you seemed hesitant. I know the issue may be a bit more near and dear to your heart, but I didn’t understand why you tip toed during that subject.”

    RESPONSE: I don’t understand how you came to this conclusion. Especially considering that, among other things, I said the following on page 74 of the book:

    “It’s long past time for African-American Sunni Muslim women to flee from African-American Sunni mosques. For the sake of Allah. For the sake of their own lives. For the sake of their children’s lives. For the sake of maintaining their Islam.

    It’s time for those of us who haven’t already left to make hijra (emigrate) and move ourselves away from evil as Allah commands in the Holy Quran. Allah has already stressed to us that His Earth is spacious. Surely, there is a place for us other than among rabid predators.

    The widespread corruption and depravity of African-American Sunni Muslim men (with help from Black Muslim women who enable them) has reached a point that it is nearly impossible for a sane African-American Muslim woman to practice Islam in safety in most of these mosques. The children are also in grave danger in these mosques. There are many predators, and almost no protectors. This is why, years after my former imam retired (who is an honorable man, explaining why he had few followers), I haven’t found a mosque that I feel comfortable attending.

    It turns out that Muslim Black women and children are much safer in the heterodox Nation of Islam, a group that most Sunni Muslims consider to be a non-Muslim cult. Let me repeat for the record that I have never been a member of the Nation of Islam; I am a Sunni Muslimah.”

    How you could construe that (and other statements in the book) as being “hesitant” or “eggshell walking” is beyond my comprehension. No, your REAL DEAL (among other issues) is that you don’t like the fact that I’m Muslim. Which was confirmed when you said: “I just found it strange you were willing to stick it out in your religious community, but so quick to remove yourself for the so called “black community”.”

    From your . . . curious . . . reactions, it seems to me that you read that particular chapter, and perhaps the entire book, through the prism of your own (anti-Muslim) religious bigotry. That is, if you actually read the book—which I doubt—because contrary to the assertions made in your comment, you somehow missed ALL the instances in which I used the Arabic word for God (“Allah”) that I quoted from pg. 74.

    “Kim,” I don’t believe you read the book. And I don’t believe you are as you describe yourself.

    Finally, “Kim”—or maybe I should just cut to the chase and call you “Tyrone”—you said:“Also all the books on tagged to your Amazon page about IR relationships just looked desperate and tacky. Just my 2 cents.”

    RESPONSE: I would suggest that you refer your concerns about layout and cover design to the authors involved. While you’re at it, “Kim/Tyrone,” I’d like to see some of your work and accomplishments. Maybe you can come back and provide a link to some of your work. You know, as a point of reference so I can compare it to the other authors’ works that you’re so concerned about.

    Peace and blessings.

    • Kim says:

      Khadijah,

      Since you asked, my greatest accomplishments are that I am free, that I am free and that I am free. I’m not trying to make this a religious exchange, but in my faith the scriptures testify to there being many gods, but only one Most High Elohim (God) the creator and sustainer of all things. I seperated the god of the Bible from the god of the Koran based only on the different characteristics in the writings that bear wintess of these Gods and their prophets. I may be mistaken, but I think you understand a Jew to be someone who pratices Judaism, but I am a Jew who believes Christ was the Messiah. The new testament chruch refered to themselves as Jews as do I. I am who I say I am, again your chapter about the African American Sunni Community had a much different tone than the blunt tone in other chapters, just an observation. I kind of saw that your writing in that chapter resembles a prevalent attitude many African Amreican women have in religious organizations, and that is to stick it out, regardless that many of the mostly black male leaders in our churches are corrupt. I still don’t understand this phenomenon, I’m not talking about giving up on God, but the religious institutuions that are in many ways just as opressive as the dealers and pimps that destroy the moral fabric of our communities. The corruption found in most black religious institutions is a problem that seems too taboo to talk about for some reason, these preachers get protection from their mainly black female congregations in the face of their many trespasses, I think there needs to be an exodus from this dysfunctional area of the black community as well. In the area of the book about black women and weight, this caught my attention, because I just watched the Oscars and Gabourney Sidibe’s red carpet interview, she is the same age as me, morbidly obese and had everyone being politically correct and saying she looked beautuful that night, and I tried to believe the interviewer’s when they said they thought she was beautiful, but I knew they were lying. This young woman is dying, there is nothing beautiful about that, and I’m not looking for her to be 150lbs, but I can’t help but believe just like many black women like you mentioned in the book she is hiding behid the weight, trying to hide her blackness even with the weight. Even though she has a dark complexion her lagre size was even more of a distraction from just seeing her and her humanity(a young woman having the time of her life)The whole situation to me channeled her character Precious during one of her daydream scenes, then to later be awakened back to a cold hard reality. Then I saw Monique with a man on her arm who doesn’t think she worthy to be faithful and monogamus with, is it their blackness that has made them settle for what other women wouldn’t put up with or are they truly happy? I think it’s all a facade.

  27. “Kim/Tyrone,”

    I’m not surprised that you have no work/accomplishments of your own that you can point to in a link—so I can compare your work to the other authors’ works that you were so concerned about in your earlier comment.

    This is my last rotation with you on this topic, because I don’t think it’s worthwhile for me to spend much more time pursuing this dead end in your reading comprehension, or your word games.

    RESPONSE #1: The above passage I quoted from the book could NOT possibly be more “blunt” or straightforward. Like I said earlier, your real issue (among others) is that I am Muslim.

    RESPONSE #2: Since I caught you with your use of a particular type of Christian sectarian phraseology, it’s good that you finally ‘fessed up about your true religious identity as a Black Christian.

    You know, like everybody else knows, that when people call themselves “Jews” the commonly understood meaning of that label is that they are ethnically Jewish (descended from a Jewish woman) and/or they practice Judaism. Again, you know this. I don’t like dishonest word games, and that sort of behavior makes me question the validity of a person’s purported “faith walk,” as well as any other claims they make.

    RESPONSE #3: If you actually have read/are reading the book . . .

    . . . which I don’t believe because you somehow missed all the uses of the Arabic word “Allah” that I quoted from the passage on pg. 74 . . . [I think you're a disgruntled BM troll who looked at the book's table of contents on this site, and tried to find an "opening" to use for attack]. . .

    . . . then you are reading through a fog of religious bigotry, and you can’t comprehend what has been said.

    I made it quite clear in that chapter that I DON’T and WON’T attend corrupt religious institutions. Furthermore, in that chapter I advised Sunni Muslim AA women to flee those corrupt mosques (as is obvious from the quoted passage).

    How you managed to twist that clear statement around into “sticking it out in a corrupt religious institution” is beyond me, and is yet more evidence of your bad faith.

    RESPONSE #4: Finally, what all of this really boils down to is that you’re angry that I am Muslim (in addition to your preexisting anger as a disgruntled BM troll). I’m not going to invest (waste, actually) any more time in discussing your word games and lack of reading comprehension.

    Peace be unto you, “Kim/Tyrone.”

  28. SouthlandDiva says:

    Khadija,

    Though it may be tiresome for you, I am glad you engaged with Kim/Tyrone. I believe it’s good for your readers, especically for any new readers, to be aware of Internet Ike (Ikette) Turners (IITs) and their attempts to derail, distract, and otherwise hijack a comment thread. Knowledge is power and it is important to know the techniques of those who would have us waste time and energy on nonsense rather than focusing on substantial issues.

    Peace, Love & Light

  29. Southland Diva,

    You said, “Though it may be tiresome for you, I am glad you engaged with Kim/Tyrone. I believe it’s good for your readers, especically for any new readers, to be aware of Internet Ike (Ikette) Turners (IITs) and their attempts to derail, distract, and otherwise hijack a comment thread. Knowledge is power and it is important to know the techniques of those who would have us waste time and energy on nonsense rather than focusing on substantial issues.”

    I agree; which is why I let that nonsense through in the first place. The main points I want more AAW to take away from these “teachable moments” are:

    1-TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS: If something feels like mess, it probably is! and

    2-We owe NOTHING to people who hate us!

    We don’t have to be bothered with listening to them, or interacting with them as if they were legitimate people. They’re NOT. The Internet Ikes (Ikettes) are the same as the Klan. Let’s be clear about that. These Internet Ikes & Ikettes want AAW and girls to live diminished lives, suffer and die. Period. We don’t owe them the benefits of any doubts or anything else.

    Techniques for handling Internet Ike Turners and Ikettes were discussed at the previous blog. http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2009/03/table-talk-for-activists-part-4.html

    http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2009/08/table-talk-for-activists-part-7-open.html

    There’s also a good essay about “Derailing for Dummies” here: http://tinyurl.com/ygyqy7v

    These sorts of behavior patterns carry over into the realm of personal security. Women are often socialized to be victims who ignore their own gut warning reactions to situations because they are worried about being “fair” and polite to potential predators. I highly recommend the book, The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_of_Fear

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  30. Lorraine says:

    Khadija,

    I am sure Karyn is honored and humbled by your sincere, ginuine, thorough and scholarly review of “Don’t Bring Home A White Boy”. Now I see that my own review must be revised in order to be one quarter of the splendid piece you have penned. Personally, I feel your review could easily be the “Afterward” of Karyn’s book itself. Again, a lesson in being our best at all times — flawless if you will, at every opportunity. Thank you dear sister.

    @ Truth P, a website/blog to honor our foremothers is an excellent idea and I encourage you to do just that. Although I am still loathed to look at the early Johnson Publications Jet, Ebony, Black World/Negro Digest and Tan Magazines, (because the early covers featured endless light near white black women) you can find a wealth of information and tidbits of history about black people (women).

    With Windows One Note 2007 you can copy images and share them. This is how I found so many bw/wm interracially married couples from the 1950s. Most of the issues are cataloged free on google books. Good luck to you!

  31. Lorraine,

    Thank you so much for your kind words about my review of Karyn’s book; I truly appreciate it. {blushing}

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  32. **Everybody: Another hater has given me a reason to repeat my earlier “call to action” {chuckling}**

    It seems that “Kim/Tyrone” has engaged in yet another bit of dishonesty. S/he has taken the time to submit a dishonest review of the book at Amazon.com that is based on our disagreement over here INSTEAD OF actually being about the book. There’s room for honest disagreement and criticism of the book. What “Kim/Tyrone” has done is not an example of that.

    It’s interesting to note that “Kim’s/Tyrone’s” REAL gripe—as s/he stated in his review—is the interaction that we had over here regarding his disingenous, bigoted comments over here.

    Among other pre-existing reasons for his spite, “Kim/Tyrone” is angry that I’m Muslim. He’s angry that I remain Muslim despite my chagrin with the destructive antics of many African-American Sunni Muslims. That’s most of what’s at the root of this. Not the book. If his review was sincere, he would have done the review BEFORE coming to this blog with his word games, and not AFTER being unmasked about his word games, and overall bad-faith attempt at derailing. [See my above replies to him for the details of what I'm referring to.]

    Anyone who reads the above exchange will see that s/he’s stung and angry because I caught him/her in some mess over here, and so s/he lashed out at Amazon.com. This is a common behavior pattern with “haters.” Their motives are transparent and utterly predictable. I was waiting to see how long it would take “Kim/Tyrone” to do this. As I expected, not long. {chuckling}

    So, “Kim/Tyrone” has given me an appropriate opportunity to repeat an earlier “call to action” comment, where I said:

    “Everybody:

    It’s a common pattern that haters are quick to flex their hateration. They usually don’t have anything else to do with their time. The haters are too incompetent to build or create anything of their own, but they are quick to try to tear down other things.

    Meanwhile, decent people are often slow to actively support the things that they believe are worthy of their support. Often, decent people allow the haters to have the last word in various situations.

    Here’s the challenge to those of you who support this particular message of abundant life for BW:

    If you support this message, then it would be helpful for you to make a point of going to Amazon.com and leaving a short, HONEST review of the book (only after you’ve had time to actually read the book). And also do the same for any other book that you believe supports the empowerment of BW and Black girls.

    I can’t speak to what other authors prefer, but I can speak to what I prefer——I prefer HONEST reviews.

    Let me be clear:

    1-I’m NOT suggesting that folks run over to Amazon.com to give reviews that they don’t believe. I’m not fishing for insincere compliments. I’m suggesting that after you’ve had a chance to actually read the book, that you go over there and say what you honestly think about the book. INCLUDING the things you think are FLAWED about the book and its arguments.

    2-If any of you decide to leave a review at Amazon.com, please DON’T waste time talking about the hater. The hater is not the point. The point would be to give an short, HONEST reaction to the book, if you decide to do so.

    Again, let me stress that I’m NOT fishing for you to say anthing you don’t believe. Just HONEST reviews to counter the droppings that were left by the hater.

    We can all support various messages in different ways. Everybody has their unique contribution to make. Leaving a short, HONEST review at Amazon.con is something that you can do that I would greatly appreciate.

    **Leaving this thread’s conversation again. {chuckling}**

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  33. Kaneisha says:

    I LOVED Karyn’s book! I’m hosting a giveaway on my blog of her book until April 5th! Come on over and win one! http://crazygirlnation.com/2010/03/book-giveaway-dont-bring-home-a-white-boy/

    • Kaneisha,

      I don’t like spam comments and I usually won’t publish them. I let it go this time because this particular bit of spam helps promote Karyn’s book. Please consider this your first and final warning.

      From Wikipedia:

      “Most forum spam consists of links to external sites, with the dual goals of increasing search engine visibility in highly competitive areas such as weight loss, pharmaceuticals, gambling, pornography, real estate or loans, and generating more traffic for these commercial websites. Some of these links contain code to track the spambot’s identity if a sale goes through, when the spammer behind the spambot works on commission.

      Spam posts may contain anything from a single link, to dozens of links. Text content is minimal, usually innocuous and unrelated to the forum’s topic, or in a very old thread that is revived by the spammer solely for the purpose of spamming links.(emphasis added)

      Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  34. Rhonda says:

    I don’t know if you will print this comment, because I have arrived late to this dance, but I think it fits in with this post of yours:

    About a year ago, I was listening to a BBC radio news story about a county in Ireland that looked into what had happened to its citizens who immigrated during the late 1800s. They traced one man back, who made it to Kentucky. This man married a [former slave] black woman. That man turned out to be the great-grandfather of Muhammad Ali (ne Cassius Clay)! The reason for the story, was because the county invited Ali to visit to bestow upon him, and for him to claim, his Irish heritage: Ali accepted their invitation.