Pay Attention to Nuances When Black People Say They “Don’t Understand What Black Means”

I’m always mildly annoyed when I hear Black people speak the negativity (and downright verbal poison) of “I don’t understand what Black means.” What’s even worse is that many of us don’t understand that this is poison. Any statement that is anti-self is poison, and a form of negativity to be excluded from one’s mental diet. Rejecting a component of one’s identity is definitely anti-self. It’s similar to voluntarily hacking off one of your fingers. Yes, you’ll still survive and be able to function (more or less). By why do something like that? Why do anything that would hinder your ability to live at an optimal level? African-Americans have been bombarded for so long with a steady diet of poison, that we don’t always recognize it as poison.

PAY ATTENTION TO NUANCES—DIFFERENT TYPES OF BLACK PEOPLE MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS WHEN SAYING THAT THEY “DON’T UNDERSTAND WHAT BLACK MEANS”

Another problem is that most African-Americans are tone-deaf, and can’t hear the nuances in various statements. This is one reason why we end up being subservient to, and run over by, most other types of people that we encounter. Most African-Americans have the childish mental habit of assuming that other people, and especially Blacks from other ethnic groups, see the world the same way we do, and think just like us. They don’t. See this conversation at the previous blog that touches on this issue.

When African-Americans make these “I don’t know what Black means” statements they are publicly advertising their general lack of ethnic and racial self-respect. Most African-Americans have no sense of ethnic identity, and only a vague (and negative) sense of racial identity.

When foreign-origin Blacks make these statements they are, at best, neutral statements reflecting normal human patterns of how people set priorities. It’s normal human nature to take care of folks in this order: self, family, clan, ethnic group. With many people in many countries, “nation” isn’t even on that list. For other people, “race” also is not on that list; their concern only extends as far as their own ethnic group. With most people, outsiders are almost never on the “take care of them” list.

Most African-Americans have the “take care of them” list backwards compared to every other group of people. We put outsiders first and put ourselves last. African-American women put themselves dead last on the “must be taken care of” list. Our misleaders have programmed most African-Americans to look to create over-arching coalitions with anybody and everybody else . . . in the absence of taking care of self, family, clan, and finally, ethnic group.

Our misleaders have also programmed us to fixate on being “fairer than fair” to anybody and everybody except ourselves. This is why so many African-Americans will come to Black blogs to fight with other Black people to champion the interests of NON-Blacks (such as the “don’t you dare call me Black” so-called biracials, other so-called “people of color,” and so on). (Note that these other “people of color” generally only use that term to describe themselves when they want something from African-Americans. Many other “people of color,” such as many Latinos and Arabs, are heavily invested in self-identifying as “White” in every other context.)

All the above confused thinking is upside-down and backwards. And it doesn’t work.

A NOTE FOR NON-AFRICAN-AMERICAN READERS

Yes, there are non-African-American Blacks who do the same thing. I just happen to feel that members of my own ethnic group (African-Americans) routinely take this madness to levels that other Black folks generally don’t go in such large numbers—we’re the most infected with this particular strain of insanity. Nobody else thinks like this to this degree. This is why I’m addressing this issue with a focus on African-Americans for this particular conversation.

A NOTE FOR THOSE AFRICAN-AMERICANS WHO ARE CONFUSED ABOUT WHAT “AFRICAN-AMERICAN” MEANS

I would define “African-American” as being something parallel to the commonly understood (among themselves) definitions of “Italian-American,” “Irish-American,” “Hausa,” or “Jamaican-American.”

In other words, being the descendants of a group of people that are—distinguishable from others—and connected to each other— by a shared set of historical experiences and cultural norms. When I say “African-Americans” I’m referring to those of us who are, distinguishable from others and connected to each other, by our shared historical experiences as descendants of those Africans who were held in slavery in the United States.

Just like every other ethnic group on the planet is—distinguishable from others—and connected to each other—by some shared set of historical experiences and cultural norms. Why is this concept so mysterious only when describing African-Americans? Answer: Because we’ve literally had our ethnic and racial self-respect beaten out of us. As a result, we slavishly look for validation from other people who do have some ethnic and racial self-respect for their own groups. Nature abhors a vacuum. Something will always rush in to fill one. Even if it’s something harmful, such as self-hatred.

Shared historical experiences and shared (general) cultural norms are not the same as the “acting Black” straitjacket. Sometimes an individual’s connections to their heritage, and to others from their group, are loose ones. That’s okay. Sometimes these connections are tighter (as I’ve noticed seems to be the general case among many Greek-Americans and Jewish-Americans). That’s also okay, for those folks who want closer connections with their group.

Many African-Americans say “Black” when they’re actually referring to what they (often mistakenly) believe to be African-American culture and shared historical experience.

This “acting Black” mess that many African-Americans speak is rooted in their ignorance of their actual history and cultural inheritance, and various types of dysfunction that they’ve lifted up (such as African-American gang subculture, African-American prison subculture).

In short, the “acting Black” fools have confused their African-American historical and cultural inheritance with African-American gang subculture, African-American prison subculture, and African-American hip-hop subculture (which draws heavily from gang and prison subculture).

Many African-Americans have surrendered the “African-American” and “Black” labels to these nuts. And then many African-Americans run from the African-American and Black labels out of justified revulsion to the gang, prison, and hip-hop-based madness the nuts have defined as “Black.”

I refuse to surrender the African-American and Black labels to the “acting Black” nuts.

But above and beyond the relatively recent decades of “acting Black” madness, there was much preexisting confusion among African-Americans. We often conflate “African-American” with “Black.” This confusion is leavened with large doses of racial and ethnic self-hatred.

WHY TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC AFRICAN-AMERICAN IDENTITY ISSUES?

I talk about these specific African-American ethnic and racial identity issues because I want you to be as comfortable and relaxed with all facets of your identity as other people are with theirs. I want you to be relaxed and self-confident enough to enjoy all this world has to offer. Right now, most African-Americans can’t do this because we have emotionally charged relationships with various aspects of our identity.

I want you to hold your head high as you travel this world. Just like other people take what is good from the wider world without feeling compelled to discard their own identity. There are two unhealthy and extreme positions that insecure African-Americans take regarding their ethnic and racial identity. The first unhealthy position is to try to:

(1) minimize (“I’m 1/8 Cherokee, 1/27th Irish, 1/58th German, and . . . umm, I’m too dark to deny it, so I guess I have to say . . . Black”),

(2) deny (“I don’t know what Black means”), and finally

(3) erase (“I’m Cablanasian, biracial, multicultural, anything-but-Black”) the African-American and Black identities that most of us are deeply ashamed of.

The second, and ironically equally self-hating, position is to outwardly show fanatical levels of fixation on one’s racial and ethnic identity. Perfect examples of this second manifestation of feelings of inferiority are the legions of “Blacker than thou” Black male leaders who chased, sexed or married light, nonblack, and White women. Elijah Muhammad and his light-skinned, often teenaged secretaries. Many if not most of the Black Panthers; see Bobby Seale’s autobiography A Lonely Rage for the details of the Panther leadership’s exploits while chasing nonblack women. Harry Belafonte. Amiri Baraka.

In fact, there’s currently at least one minister in the Nation of Islam who is married to a nonblack woman. I’m referring to one of Elijah Muhammad’s illegitimate children by one his light-skinned secretaries, Minister Ishmael Muhammad, who is married to a Mexican woman. For more examples regarding a number of Black male Pan-Africanist leaders, see this post by Halima, blog host of Black Women’s Interracial Relationship Circle. The list can go on.

I never understood either of these extremes. My parents raised me to have a healthy and most of all, relaxed sense of self-respect for every aspect of my identity.

It’s interesting. Without being “Blacker than thou” fanatics, they managed to raise me so that it never occurred to me to feel “less than” based on being a girl, or being Black, or being “Afro-American.” (That was one of the popular terms for us when I was a small girl.) While growing up, it never occurred to me to try to emphasize the White ancestry that led to the light skin and brown hair that runs through my family.

As a pre-teen, I was not excited to hear about the White family in the Southern town that my grandfather came from that has the same surname as him. I never denied that these particular White folks existed. Or that they were most likely related to us, but I didn’t feel any compulsion to emphasize them when the topic of my ancestry came up. Without knowing the term “reciprocity,” this concept was the basis for my indifference and apathy about these rumored White relatives. Since these particular Whites weren’t trying to track us down and claim us as relatives, why in the world would I want to chase them down or go out of my way to claim them?

At the time, I knew some other African-American 6th, 7th and 8th graders who were extremely frantic (every chance they got) to point out all the distantly related nonblacks in their family tree. I remember thinking how strange it was that they were so focused on people who weren’t equally interested in them. In fact, it sounded like many of these distantly related nonblack folks didn’t claim any kinship to them at all.

I was only interested in hearing about, and later on researching, the history of those ancestors who cared about having a connection to the rest of us.

My parents raised me to have ethnic and racial self-respect without disparaging other people. It’s possible to reject whatever injustice exists without engaging in stereotyping, or painting other people with a broad brush.

I also never understood the second extreme of “Blacker than thou” behavior. This includes the years I spent as a Black Nationalist. I didn’t hate Whites or nonblacks. I wasn’t fixated on outward displays of so-called Black consciousness. I wasn’t a natural hair evangelist who berated and harassed other Black women for wearing relaxed styles. I wore my hair however I felt like wearing it, including relaxed styles.

I was a Black Nationalist because I wanted my own people to have the good things that others have. Things like racial and ethnic self-respect, functioning communities, and so on. When I (briefly) considered joining the Nation of Islam during law school, it wasn’t because they talked about White people. It was because they talked about being a free and independent people like everybody else. It was because they took action in support of providing the “money, good homes, and friendship in all walks of life” that Elijah Muhammad promised for as many Black people as possible. It was because they were the only Black group I saw that had visible, tangible, consistent, long-term achievements in improving the lives of large numbers of African-Americans.

Anyway, both of the above-described extreme positions reflect insecurity and an inner belief that one’s own heritage is inferior. Healthy people don’t have emotionally-charged relationships with the various facets of their identity. They simply appreciate and when relevant, celebrate, their identities and go on with their lives.

AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE THE ONLY BLACKS THAT REJECT HAVING THEIR OWN SPECIFIC ETHNICITY

African-Americans are the only Black ethnic group on the planet that’s so confused about, and often has an active aversion to, having our own ethnic identity.

I’ve never heard a foreign-origin Black person form their lips to disparage their own ethnic group by saying that they “don’t know what it means to be” Hausa, Jamaican, Panamanian, Dominican, or whatever else they are. African-Americans are the only ones who speak that form of negativity about their own group. You’re the only ones who do that.

FOREIGN BLACKS DON’T NECESSARILY MEAN THE SAME THING AS AFRICAN-AMERICANS WHEN THEY SAY THEY “DON’T KNOW WHAT BLACK MEANS”

Too many African-Americans assume that Black people from other ethnic groups see the world the same way we do. We assume that their circumstances are the same as our circumstances. This leads to the (often mistaken) assumption that these other Black folks mean the same things as we do when they use certain expressions. They don’t. Remember, for some foreign-origin Blacks, their level of concern only extends as far as their own particular ethnic group. They only feel connected to: self, family, clan, and ethnic group. Not nation. And not race.

This means when foreign-origin Blacks throw away the idea of “Black,” almost all of them are still proudly hanging on to their specific ethnic identities as Jamaicans, Hausas and so on. It’s important to note that even the foreign-origin Black folks who say they “don’t know what Black means” still hang on to their particular ethnic identity (such as Hausas, Panamanians, Jamaicans, Dominicans). Even if they aren’t interested in anything “Black,” they never say they’re confused about what it means to be part of their own ethnic groups.

Meanwhile, when you as an African-American throw away the idea of “Black,” you’re throwing away the only smidgen of identity that you have! This is because most of you never took the time to develop any specifically African-American ethnic identity. While you’re busy making yourself . . . nothing . . . but a culture-free, “race is an artificial construct,” human being . . . these other types of Black folks are still proudly identifying with their specific Hausa, Panamanian, Jamaican, Dominican ethnic heritage as well as being “race is an artificial construct” humans.

They still (proudly) keep their ethnic “cards” in their pockets when they make these statements, while you completely empty your pockets when you do the same. Unless you develop any sense of specific ethnic pride, you leave yourself empty-handed when you throw away the racial identity card.

Can you see the difference between these two positions? Can you see that African-Americans are the only ones who are so confused about what it means to be part of their own ethnic group? Can you see that nobody else on this planet is claiming that type of confusion? When you’re the only one doing something, that’s usually a clue that whatever you’re doing is unwise.

These “I don’t know what Black means” statements don’t necessarily have the same effect or meaning when uttered by foreign-origin Blacks. This is because, unlike most African-Americans, foreign-origin Blacks are often making these statements in the context of maintaining their own ethnic self-respect. Their context is different from your context of having nothing but a racial identity (as “Black”-Americans).

Lifestyle optimization requires you to examine ideas from the vantage point of your own particular context and circumstances. It’s impossible to have an optimal lifestyle when you make critical decisions based on other people’s circumstances. Parroting the statements of other people whose circumstances (and often their interests) are out of alignment with yours will throw your life into chaos and ruin.

Another nuance that many African-Americans are too tone-deaf to catch is that when some foreign-origin Blacks denigrate the idea of “Black,” they are actually denigrating African-Americans. Many African-Americans are slow to catch on to this because of their own lack of ethnic pride, and their general naïveté when dealing with Black-skinned outsiders. It’s a mistake to assume that Blacks from other ethnic groups see the world the same way we do, and think just like us. They don’t.

Consider that a shared racial identity (“Black”) is the only connection that some foreign-origin Blacks ever claimed to have with you. Aren’t many of them constantly telling you about how different they are from you? And about how differently they do things back on their islands and in their countries? Their cultures are different. And that’s okay. Let me stress that there’s nothing inherently wrong with, or insulting about, recognizing ethnic differences. But too many of you fail to pay attention to the nuances behind various statements.

Sometimes when foreign-origin Blacks make these “I don’t know what Black means” statements they are simple neutral reflections of the normal way of organizing priorities (self, family, clan, ethnic group). However, sometimes when foreign-origin Blacks make these statements, they’re making a point of throwing away the only connection (a racial one) that some of them ever claimed to have to you. They’re not discarding their connections to one another when they say they “don’t know what Black means.” Even when they don’t know anything about “Black,” they still know what Hausa, Jamaican, Panamanian, Dominican, and other identities mean.

When they throw away “Black,” what they’re often discarding is the notion of having any connection to YOU.

Many African-Americans are too clueless to understand this. Just like many African-American men, there are many African-American women who are looking for the nearest exit out of their Black and African-American identities. So they get overjoyed when they hear Black-skinned others make “I don’t know what Black means” statements.

These confused African-Americans mistakenly assume the foreign Black person who makes these statements is joining them in becoming racial AND ethnic blank slates. (Remember, most African-Americans conflate “Black” with “African-American.”) No, when foreign-origin Blacks make these statements they’re not joining African-Americans in making themselves totally blank slates. Unlike the African-American speakers, most foreign Blacks are still holding on to their specific ethnic self-respect when they make these statements. Again, it’s a matter of paying attention to nuances.

These other types of Black people have another way of identifying themselves (as Hausas, Jamaicans, Panamanians, and so on). As confused African-Americans, YOU’RE the only Black ethnic group that doesn’t recognize any identity more specific than “Black” for yourselves. You’re the only ones who call yourselves “Black” only. Sometimes, when foreign-origin Blacks are talking negatively about “Black,” they’re talking singularly about African-Americans. They’re talking about YOU.

I firmly believe that charity begins at home. Every culture on this planet has unhealthy aspects. Having unhealthy aspects is not the same as having nothing of one’s own and being a blank slate. Healthy people recognize that yes, they are part of the overall human race, and that on one level, race is an artificial social construct. However, healthy people also have more specific cultural identities besides simply human.

African-Americans’ previous attempts to become ethnic and racial blank slates is part of why many of our children are still giving the same responses on the “doll test” that African-American children gave in the 1950s. There’s a direct connection between:

(1) The widespread African-American lack of ethnic and racial self-respect.

(2) The resulting desire to be racial AND ethnic blank slates, which nobody else is doing to the same degree. (For examples, Hausas aren’t saying they don’t know if there’s such a thing as being specifically Hausa within the overall context of being Nigerian; and Jamaican-Americans aren’t saying that they don’t know if there’s such a thing as being Jamaican-American.)

And (3) the anti-Black woman colorism that many of us have been talking about.

AFRICAN-AMERICANS CAN LEARN SOME THINGS FROM FOREIGN BLACKS, SUCH AS THE IMPORTANCE OF ETHNIC SELF-RESPECT

We live in a world of other people who, for the most part, have some ethnic self-respect. At minimum, other people tend to have more ethnic self-respect than the “typical” African-American (including the ethnic self-respect that most Africans and West Indians display when they come to the US).

This baseline of ethnic self-respect is why I’ve also never heard a Nigerian (of any Nigerian ethnic group), Jamaican, Panamanian, or any other foreign-origin Black person use terminology like “pro-Hausa,” “pro-Jamaican,” or “pro-Panamanian.” The unquestioned assumption appears to be that they’re going to be for themselves, whoever that is.

These other Black people don’t have any problem with being for themselves. Meanwhile, there are African-Americans who use the terminology “pro-Black” as if it’s a slur, when “Black” is the only tiny bit of identity they know (because they haven’t developed any ethnic identity as an African-American).

Any African-American who wants an optimal lifestyle needs to appreciate the difference between healthy ethnic self-respect and “acting Black” madness. It seems to me that one set of confused African-Americans (sometimes deliberately) misinterpret “expanding one’s horizons” as “oreo.” While another set of confused African-Americans (sometimes deliberately) misinterpret having ethnic and racial self-respect as “militant,” or “acting Black” madness, or being anti-others. Somehow, this confusion only arises in reference to African-Americans. Others, including other types of Black people, are free to have ethnic self-respect without having it mischaracterized as something negative. Other types of Black people are also free to take advantage of whatever the wider world has to offer. I want you to be free to do this as well; while also holding your head high as an African-American.

I’ve spent a fair amount of time traveling abroad. To say that African-Americans are very Westernized, and specifically very Americanized, after centuries of living here does not negate the fact that African-Americans are a separate, identifiable ethnic group. African-Americans are a people that are distinguishable from others, and connected to each other, by a shared set of historical experiences and cultural norms. African-Americans are not ethnic or racial blank slates.

African-Americans have legitimate cultural practices of our own. Is every single artifact of our African-American culture “legitimate”? No, but I vehemently disagree with the notion that African-Americans have absolutely nothing that’s real. I disagree with the idea of giving respect to everybody else’s cultural heritage while disrespecting my own by saying that I don’t have one. Or by saying that mine doesn’t count relative to other people’s cultural heritage.

For example, I don’t believe that West Indians or the various Black Latino ethnic groups have any more of a “real” cultural heritage than African-Americans. If African-American culture is a hodgepodge—as I’ve heard many African-Americans say in public—then the same applies to other Western Blacks. I never hear the African-Americans who make these statements apply the “hodgepodge” label to the cultures of other Western Blacks. They reserve that particular dismissive term and attitude for their own people’s culture.

The bottom line is that ALL Western Blacks are enmeshed in whichever European culture was and is dominant where they live.

English-speaking West Indians are enmeshed in British culture. African-Americans are enmeshed in British-descended, WASP culture (with pockets of also being enmeshed in French culture in Louisiana). Black Latinos are enmeshed with the culture of their former slave owners, the Spaniards.

Before somebody says that all these other Western Blacks have cultures that are more “real” than ours because they have their own independent countries, please consider the following questions. Are any of these other Black folks’ countries independent in the same way that China is independent of the US? Or are some of them independent the same way Mexico is “independent” of the US? Finally, are some of these countries independent to roughly the same extent the city of Detroit is independent? (For example, note that Puerto Rico is not an independent country.) Let’s be clear about all of this.

Even the straightened hair, green-contact-lens-wearing, skin-bleaching Sammy Sosa is not claiming confusion about his specific ethnicity as a Dominican. He’s not saying, “What is Dominican? I just don’t know what that means.” He simply wants to be any race but Black. Mr. Sosa is a good example of a Black person who has racial self-hatred, but not ethnic self-hatred. He’s thrown away “Black,” but he hasn’t thrown away the “Dominican” part of his identity.

African-Americans’ cultural heritage is no more (and no less) made up than those of these other Westernized Black people.

I’m not going to assign a rank to my cultural heritage that’s less than the rank these other Western Blacks assign to their cultural heritage. I don’t hear these other Westernized Blacks saying that they don’t have any culture of their own, or that they don’t know what it means to be part of their own ethnic group. I suspect this is because these other Western Black ethnic groups never demonized having ethnic self-respect as being something negative.

This is something positive that African-Americans can learn from other Black ethnic groups.

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74 Responses to “Pay Attention to Nuances When Black People Say They “Don’t Understand What Black Means””

  1. NijaG says:

    I disagree. Although AAs have squandered almost all of the past resources built by our ancestors, we continue to create HUGE, NEW pools of resources, even in our madness and confusion. These huge pools of newly-generated resources are invisible to AAs because we’re dumb enough to let them flow directly into OTHER people’s hands and collectives!

    Actually, I think we’re in partial agreement. Maybe it’s semantics; I would say AA ancestors (for obvious reasons), built, owned, generated and controlled their resources which of course flowed directly into the community. For the outsiders who wanted to do business w/them, they could set their own terms and demand reciprocity.

    Unlike today, AA’s don’t OWN or CONTROL much collectively. At least not enough to ensure their continuing growth and bargaining power (political/social/economic). We have a very certain % of (excuse my language) “House Negros” who generate Trillions for their “White Masters” and while they get rewarded handsomely for it; it’s still a very small fraction of what is being generated for the WM corporations.

    To expand on that further, let’s take the Entertainment and Sports industry, in which AAs (men specifically) supposedly have an “advantage” in certain segments.

    Black men collectively, in these two industries alone, have *earned* hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars over the past few decades. However, they don’t *own* or *control* anything. You talk about this all the time.
    Working for Someone vs. Owning your Own.

    Let us take Basketball & Football, I hardly follow sports, but I’m sure I’m not the only one who has noticed that compared to 10-15 years ago when BM virtually outnumbered WM and other Non-BM groups in these teams by at 3 to 1 that it has gradually been changing it’s almost 1:1.

    Talent is a commodity and in certain areas for a long time BM had certain advantages. All these BM sports stars and business leaders could have banded together to control these segments and become a force to be reckoned with. Instead, there are no black owned sport teams, agencies, etc

    Heck, I read or heard somewhere recently about some sports team owner (WM), who was thinking of creating an all white team. There was some reason for it (I don’t know what), but you know once one person starts and can get away from it, others will start to follow. Then where will all these *Ballers* be.

    Instead, some of these sports stars take their hard earned money and give it back to WM, by becoming minority share holders in these WM owned sports team, Michael Jordan for example. Same with the much heralded P. Diddy and Jay-Z, their so-called companies are just subsidiaries to much larger Non-BM owned corps.

    I reject the notion that every other race and ethnic group of women EXCEPT AA women can take steps to secure their own individual fates and that of their own children and immediate loved ones.

    I think you misunderstood. I have no doubt about the ability of AA women to secure good lives for themselves, their children and immediate family. My thoughts were on when the AA implosion happens, how the surviving AA women may have to create alliances with each other and establish a new paradigm on clan and ethnic/racial heritage since this these two areas will be most affected by what occurs.

    • NijaG,

      Thank you for taking the time to contribute substantive comments to this conversation. Our dialogue has prompted me to see some angles to this situation that I hadn’t considered before.

      Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  2. NijaG says:

    FoxyC,

    I try to imagine myself in that position. Say, for example, I was married to a very wealthy Palestinian man. There is no denying that a lot of our resources would go to benefit Nigeria in some way and if I was living outside Africa, the black community in whichever country we live in as well as other ‘black’ causes. Also, a lot of our resources would also go towards benefiting Palestine and Palestinian causes.

    LOL!!! At being married to a wealthy Palestinian male. Hmmm… that immediately brought to my mind, the Nija lady who co-owns Mega Plaza w/her Palestinian hubby. I remember when it was just video store, now it’s a well established fixture in Nigeria community and has grown into an Empire.

    As someone mentioned in Halima’s post about pan-African males and their hypocrisy, a lot of these black males cannot see how they hand over their wealth and success to the non-black men they attack via these non-black men’s female relatives!

    Not to defend them, but I think in Africa, at least Nigeria, the situation is slightly different. Nigerian laws and customs have many checks and balances to ensure a man’s resources don’t leave his family (immediate and extended). I don’t know your background, but if you’ve ever lived in Nigeria, then I’m you’ve seen or at least heard stories of how interfering a Man’s family of origin can be if they even think he’s showing favoritism towards his wife’s family. They’ll rather destroy his marriage to the woman.

    Also, many of these women that they marry are ordinary women in their country of origin. These women enjoy better social status in Nigeria, and that’s why many of them don’t ever leave and make sure their husband’s family.
    *****************************************************************

    JaliliM,

    I am glad you have that much optimism. I, however, don’t.

    That’s why I emphasized the MAYBE. Since a good majority of the BC will not be expecting such a thing to happen, when it finally does, it just might be the shock and wake up needed. It might force the community to take a hard look at the issues they’ve been ignoring or swiping under the carpet.

    Evia said:

    I think that in order for AAs to even want to or even try to re-group with other AAs, we would have to develop a RUCOSS and one of the pillars of that Rucoss would have to be support based on reciprocity along with a high degree of appreciation for self, high value placed on the beauty and value of bw, marriage & family, businesses, education and excellence in all things, the importance of the arts and the sciences, spiritual growth and development, etc. Everyone would be strongly expected to grow and develop in as many of these areas as possible, and with barely any thought about what happened in the past. The past has to be minimized because it only offers minimal value in the present. You learn from your mistakes and you MOVE ON.

    I think that in actuality, enough AA women could come together to erect such a RUCOSS, but the problem would STILL be the males. If that’s not addressed, we’d be back at square 1. The bottom line is that black men have major issues with white men and other strong groups of men in the world, and bw CANNOT resolve those issues because we CANNOT teach boys how to be EFFECTIVE, competitive men. I’ve watched my husband with our sons. I wish I could teach my sons to be EFFECTIVE men, but I CANNOT DO THAT, and that’s why I carefully chose a MAN to do that for my sons.

    Co-sign 100%. You said majority of what I’ve been trying to get across except way better and more concise LOL!!! I need to practice more or be quiet.
    ****************************************************************

    Khadija,

    These nonblack women simply jumped on an easy BM-mealticket for themselves. The Kardashians and other nonblack women know that it’s MUCH easier for them to snag a wealthy BM than to marry a wealthy WM. BM’s entry requirements and standards for nonblack women are VERY, VERY low. And everybody knows this.

    Have to 100% co-sign again on this statement. I look at some of these WW that some of these BM choose and all I do is just shake my head and laugh at these Negros and what this says about them. These men won’t ever date seriously or marry the BW equivalent of these WW.

    Who honestly thinks Seal would have married the BW version of Heidi?

    Would Reggie ever think to date and parade proudly the BW version of KK?

    Or the Ball player who married Kendra, Hef’s ex?

  3. JaliliMaster says:

    NijaG says:
    “JaliliMaster, I think it’s just part of human nature for males and females of the same group to be jealousy if they perceive that one gender is showing preference for the opposite gender of a different group. Throw in power/race/class dynamics and you’ve got an explosive mix.
    I can’t speak about other West African countries, but I’ve have been noticing some positive trends in Nigeria.
    * I’ve noticed less “skin colorism” issues.
    * The fact that BiRacial girls don’t get that automatic plus/advantage amongst guys as much as they use to when I was younger.
    * Also, amongst the Nigerians in the 30 and under group (especially in America), the 1st born Gen’s or those like myself who migrated at a young age, there is less trying to minimize their Nigerian/African heritage by trying blend in more with AA or Caribbean groups.
    I attribute these positives to the growing Nigerian Music, Movie, and Fashion Industries. It basically making us see ourselves in a more positive light.”

    I say:Yes, and this is what I was talking about in relation to AA’s. Talk is cheap. As long as there is no foundation, in this case, a good, positive culture to push against to ‘acting black’ brigade, things will remain as they are. Case in point: the ‘black is beautiful’ slogans of decades ago. I think most AA’s repeated such and similar slogans in those days, but today, we can see that most of it was empty. Part of the path to breeding widespread ethnic self-respect amongst AA’s must also involve not letting others desecrate AA culture. The first step is to ensure that what is considered as ‘AA culture’ by others is TRUE AA culture, not this mess that certain negroes are trying to promote.
    ____________________________________

    Foxycleopatra says: “This is very true. If I am to be honest, I think a significant part of what has reduced the skin colouris issue in Nigeria at least was to do with the Murray-Bruce brothers. The Miss Nigeria pageant was notorious for only ever crowning light skinned girls. What made it very obviuos was that a lot of the times, the girls were just ptetty girls as opposed to ‘beauty queens’ if you get my drift. When the Murray-Bruce brothers (the mixed race guys Jalilimaster mentioned above) used their Silverbird productions company to start the rival Most Beautiful Girl in Nigeria (MBGN) pagent, things changed. This was also based on the fact that it was them and not Miss Nigeria organisers who secured the deal to send their contestants to Miss World, Miss Universe and Miss Commonwealth. In MBGN, several darker skinned girls have won. In fact, the skin shade of the winners has been so diverse that one has to honestly say that they very much represent the variety of ‘black beauty’. It is surprising that it was these ’sons of a white man’ who were very much light skinned themselves that were able to recognise the diverse beauty in black women as opposed to a lot of these other negroes who would insult them, and yet run after their sisters. It is no surprise that their mother is black.
    I think another reason would be that in the past decade or so, the actresses in Nollywood have become much more diverse as opposed to the usual nonsense u would see say 20 odd years ago.”

    I say: You know, I never even looked at it from that point of view. It never occurred to me, but now I realise that it might have been possible that these men might have purposefully projected a certain image of the Nigerian women that they felt was more authentic. I remember the last Miss Nigeria contest, alot of people were complaining that they felt the winner was a poor choice because she isn’t the type of African model that tends to do well internationally. They felt that she was too light and plain i.e just a pretty girl as opposed to beautiful. Contrast what these Murray-Bruce brothers did to what most other AA males do (and to a lesser extent, alot of the Nigerian men, if we’re being honest). They seem to PURPOSEFULLY promote a certain image of bw that is not true. Either they make her as unidentifiably black as possible, or they make her visibly black, but then turn her into a whore.

    I also think it is necessary to add this other point that AA women can learn from. Now thise contest (MBGN) could ave gone by the wayside. But because these men saw an opportunity and took it, it turned out well. AA women can take some of these ideas when it comes to making their own image. It is not enough to just form that company that is tasked with doing it. You also have to create opportunities and seek allies. The ally can be anybody. You don’t have to like them to have a particular common purpose.
    Before I continue, let me remind everyone. The KKK donated significant sums of money to the NOI, and the NOI was more than happy to accept this money. Why? These two groups are probably the most unlikely of bed fellows, however, they both shared a particular aim. Racial separation. So despite the fact that they probably disagreed on EVERYOTHER issue, they were willing to sit at the same table to achieve a commo goal.

    Now where am I going with this? I’ll tell you. I have heard many AA women bemoan hip hop, but in the next breath, say that although they’d like to see it’s (long overdue) demise, they know that alot of the whites in power who have an issue do so out of racial animus for a ‘successful’ bm. There are many ‘powerful hands’ that Black women can call on to demolish this degrading ‘art’ once and for all, but are just too blind to take advantage of it.
    ________________________________

    NijaG said: “LOL!!! At being married to a wealthy Palestinian male. Hmmm… that immediately brought to my mind, the Nija lady who co-owns Mega Plaza w/her Palestinian hubby. I remember when it was just video store, now it’s a well established fixture in Nigeria community and has grown into an Empire.”

    I say: It’s just occurred to me what the ‘Nija’ in your name meant. I think you spelt it wrong, lol. Yeah, I remember Mega Plaza. That was one of the stores that inspired my mum to think about opening her own super mega complex when she retires. My younger brother told me that in Mega Plaza now, if a guy as much as makes a girl uncomfortable, he is thrown out by security, no questions asked. A lot of the Nigerian guys who went there used to complain as they usually went to chat up ‘cream’ chicks (‘cream chicks’ kind of means someone who bougie). Now, because of the rules that the owner implemented, the young ladies are able to go there and enjoy themselves without having to worry about being harassed. For the benefit of others on the board, in Nigeria, and from what I later heard, other parts of Africa, the harassment is very similar to what AA women are used to when walking on the street, but just throw in a possible marriage proposal.

    This is another example that AA women can learn from. This woman didn’t need a Nigerian husband before she put her dreams in place, and add to that, she ensures that her business protects the young Nigerian girls who frequent it. I’ll be honest, I just assumed it was a Nigerian man or foreigners who owned it, and I know a lot of Naija folks who used to hate on Mega Plaza because apparently, their staff could be somewhat snobbish if you weren’t dressed like you could afford to shop there. Nobody is going to accuse this woman of ‘compromising’ her Nigerian heritage. Similarly, many AA women should note that you can ‘expand your horizons’ without compromising your AA heritage.
    ________________________________

    NijaG said: “Not to defend them, but I think in Africa, at least Nigeria, the situation is slightly different. Nigerian laws and customs have many checks and balances to ensure a man’s resources don’t leave his family (immediate and extended). I don’t know your background, but if you’ve ever lived in Nigeria, then I’m you’ve seen or at least heard stories of how interfering a Man’s family of origin can be if they even think he’s showing favoritism towards his wife’s family. They’ll rather destroy his marriage to the woman.
    Also, many of these women that they marry are ordinary women in their country of origin. These women enjoy better social status in Nigeria, and that’s why many of them don’t ever leave and make sure their husband’s family.”

    The reason this happens is that there are too many foolish Nigerian women, and by extension, African women, who like AA women, are too dumb to realise that they can and should use the law to protect themselves. It’s not uncommon, at least from how frequent I see it happening in Nigerian films, for a man’s family, after his death, to barge in and throw his widow out of her and her husband’s house, and take his wealth. Obviously, they know who to try such nonsense with, more likely with uneducated women. I liken it to the same way dumb AA women refuse to take their AA husbands to court for PROPER support e.g. child support, alimony etc, even though by law, they are more than entitled to. For all the insults that AA men throw at AA women about them being gold diggers, of all the women on the planet, they seem to be the only group that nobody expects to want to marry a man of real means. Notice that you don’t hear these same AA male creatures labelling all these Beckys, Lupes, Wei Mings, Braveheart Goldfeathers etc, as gold diggers, despite the well known fact that these women take BM to the cleaners when they divorce. Seriously, AA women need to wake up and get with it.

    Also, it’s true that the vast majority of these women are ‘ordinary’ in their own home country. The mot common pairing one sees with African men in IR relationships are with Eastern European women. Also, in Kenya, a lot of the men complain that when they see white men coming there and marrying Kenyan women, it is almost always rich white men, so they can’t compete. They see these women enjoying these men’s wealth and get envious. There is a trend of white western women going to certain parts of Africa for a bit of fun here and there (if you catch my drift). These men now complain that they feel they are getting a worse deal because a lot of these women don’t really have that much money (compared to their white male counterparts), and these women are a bit old. So this only serves to breed even further jealousy on the part of these men as they see ‘their’ women having access to a certain lifestyle that will never be theirs.

  4. JaliliMaster says:

    Khadija said: “THIS is the sort of thing that I’m trying to focus the Sojourners’ attention on! For AAs it would be GREAT progress for us to keep our resources “in-house” (self, family, clan, ethnic group) for just ONE generation! I’m sure you’ve run across the statistics about how often a dollar is turned over in various ethnic communities before it flies outside the group. AAs can’t even turn the dollar bill over ONCE among ourselves before the money is GONE and in other people’s hands.
    All of these issues are interlocking and connected to each other. It’s not the lack of money that is causing the phenomenon that we’re discussing—ALL AA-created resources IMMEDIATELY being given away to enrich others—it’s the lack of racial and ethnic self-respect that causes this!”

    My reply:
    AA kids the only demographic in America who will be poorer than their parents. There have been several studies published which highlight this. For some strange reason, I’m yet to hear any of the AA ‘mis’ leaders try to reverse this trend. Also, all previous AA generations enjoyed more ‘wealth’ than the generation preceding them. The present AA generation of children are the only ones who, at this point, that will not experience a better standard of living than their parents. Unfortunately, this even applies to middle class black children. A few days ago on CNN, Al Sharpton was on, talking about a meeting he, along with a host of other black ‘leaders’ had with Obama, in a bid to address the approximately 15% unemployment rate amongst AA’s. Upon being questioned by Wolf Blitzer, this buffoon couldn’t mention anything that had been discussed that would actually address this problem. He (Sharpton) said: “We didn’t really get into anything concrete, but it is good and I praise the president for us being able to even have this meeting.” I’m not quoting him verbatim, but it was something along those lines. The American unemployment rate is hovering around the 10% mark overall, and people are acting as if the world is over. For whites, it is about 8.3% Latinos 13% and for AA’s, unemployment is about 15%. Before the recession, the AA unemployment rate was around 9.5%, higher than it now is for whites IN THE MIDST OF A RECESSION, and similar to the country’s overall unemployment rate. Now did these black ‘leaders’ ever think then, that they should really try do something about it? It is now, when everyone is going to be fighting even harder for their cake, that these folks want to come.

    AA women for one should stop letting these men (and their female cohorts) speak for you, especially when they do not have your best interests at heart. Part of the reason why the AA community is in such dire straits economically, is also due to the prevalence of single parent homes. If an AA woman has a good enough job, paying, say $60,000 per year, as a single parent, she is earning one person’s salary, while having to spend the amount that would have been earned by two people. Even if we compare it to cases where only one parent works, there is still a division of labour when it comes to household duties, childrearing etc. As a single parent, she is draining herself and depriving her children, both financially, and emotionally. Why don’t these self-appointed representatives of black folks ever address the issue of the breakdown of the family in the black ‘community’? Then again, are people like Rev. Jackson really in a position to lecture on family?

    AA women need to accept that part of living life abundantly is ensuring that your children are well taken care of. Before you even think of marrying/having children with a man, ask yourself this question. If I died tomorrow, could I trust this man implicitly to take care of my children in every way? To provide for them, nurture them, care for them and instill good proper values in them the way any loving father would? If there is even a smidgen of doubt in your mind, know that that man is not someone you should even as much as waste your time with.

    And finally, in reference to your comment about AA dollars being reinvested in AA communities BEFORE going elsewhere, it seems that a lot of AA’s misunderstand the whole idea of reinvesting in one’s own community. Let us use the example of Reginald Lewis’ wife. It wasn’t just about charity. When she opened a business venture (e.g. the magazine she started), it had a focus. I’m not talking about the nonsense we see in the likes of Jet, Essence etc, she was really interested in her ‘people’ having a positive image. And she made money from it. This ties into Khadijas previous comments about crusaders being able to benefit from their movements. As a result, they become self-sustaining, and don’t always have to rely on outside help for support.

    • JaliliMaster,

      A few final thoughts:

      You said, “AA kids the only demographic in America who will be poorer than their parents. There have been several studies published which highlight this. For some strange reason, I’m yet to hear any of the AA ‘mis’ leaders try to reverse this trend. Also, all previous AA generations enjoyed more ‘wealth’ than the generation preceding them. The present AA generation of children are the only ones who, at this point, that will not experience a better standard of living than their parents. Unfortunately, this even applies to middle class black children.”

      Yep. This was discussed at the previous blog. http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2008/10/art-of-majesty-part-2-imploding-black.html

      You said, “Braveheart Goldfeathers etc”

      {loud chuckling}

      You said, “This is another example that AA women can learn from. This woman didn’t need a Nigerian husband before she put her dreams in place, and add to that, she ensures that her business protects the young Nigerian girls who frequent it. I’ll be honest, I just assumed it was a Nigerian man or foreigners who owned it, and I know a lot of Naija folks who used to hate on Mega Plaza because apparently, their staff could be somewhat snobbish if you weren’t dressed like you could afford to shop there. Nobody is going to accuse this woman of ‘compromising’ her Nigerian heritage. Similarly, many AA women should note that you can ‘expand your horizons’ without compromising your AA heritage.”

      Exactly!

      You said, “Now where am I going with this? I’ll tell you. I have heard many AA women bemoan hip hop, but in the next breath, say that although they’d like to see it’s (long overdue) demise, they know that alot of the whites in power who have an issue do so out of racial animus for a ‘successful’ bm. There are many ‘powerful hands’ that Black women can call on to demolish this degrading ‘art’ once and for all, but are just too blind to take advantage of it.”

      Yes, I was happy back in the day when Al Gore’s wife (Tipper Gore) was working for truth in labeling with the rap mess. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Music_Resource_Center

      Of course, silly AAs (including AA women) mostly rallied around the rappers. {long sigh}

      You said, “And she made money from it. This ties into Khadijas previous comments about crusaders being able to benefit from their movements. As a result, they become self-sustaining, and don’t always have to rely on outside help for support.”

      Exactly!

      Peace, blessings and solidarity.

  5. JaliliMaster says:

    NijaG said: “However, if they can’t get the WM’s women, they’ll make do with the next best thing their mixed BiRacial female children. Male psychology, gotta love it.
    I’m sure we can all agree that until BM had more access to White women and started producing their own BiRacial male and female children, they were almost always much more HOSTILE and AGGRESSIVE towards the WM’s BiRacial male children.”

    My reply: I’ve noted the disappointment of a lot of biracial women with black fathers who grew up thinking that they were ‘it’, only to grow up and discover that those same black males that worshipped them were more than happy to drop them for the Beckys, Mei Lings etc. There was a very significant spike in the divorce rate amongst blacks a few decades ago (I think it was in the mid 70’s to 80’s). When one looked deeper, it was noticed that a lot of these couples were middle aged and in most cases involved a mixed-race/lighter than white woman. These men, in their time, could not have the white/non-black women they liked, so felt they had to ‘settle’ for someone who was as ‘bright’ as possible. After civil rights, integration etc, these men had access to these women, and dropped their previously ‘prized’ partners like a bat. In many cases, many of these men no longer even bother trying to get their mixed-race daughters to feel ‘special’ (as previously, that is what many bm and their non-black partners told their children). Montell Williams is well known for his, let’s just say, lack of interest in bw. His daughter by one of his non-black wives/ex-wives once questioned her mother as to whether or not her father felt she was beautiful. Her mother asked her why she felt her father didn’t think she was beautiful. She said that since he doesn’t think bw are beautiful, so obviously, he must think that she too isn’t beautiful. Her mother didn’t know what to say in reply. Obviously, he must have ragged on an on about bw in a very negative manner, in front of his family, for his daughter to know he had such an opinion. We need to understand that for a lot of bm, they weren’t just bystanders in labelling their multi-culti kids anything other than black. If a bm, as was the case with Montell Williams has a serious dislike of bw, he is going to express that view and want everyone to hear his insults. It is easier to do it if his mixed-race daughter doesn’t view herself as black.

    Look at Tigger Woodses (as Khadija calls him) father. That whole cablanasian episode wasn’t just Tigger. His father, on numerous occasions, shot down anyone who referred to his son as just black. This is despite the fact that this negro had black children from a previous marriage. He had racial and ethnic self-hatred, which passed on to his son. The way he treated his children from his first marriage should let anyone know that Woods Snr was not a particularly decent man. I was quite disgusted anytime I saw articles about how he was such a great father, completely ignoring the fact that like most AA men, he was a deadbeat ‘dad’.

    This also ties in with resources flowing out of the AA community. Woods snr was obviously a man who had no problem spending time with his family and raising his child. As long as it wasn’t his black family and as long as it was the child he could look at and not see too much black. He never taught any of his older children golf. Now look at who ended up as the billionaire. Which wife has the child that is a golf maestro? Which mother is set for life? This man had no problem with his resources flowing out of the AA community, despite the fact that it meant depriving HIS OWN CHILDREN of those same resources.

  6. JaliliMaster says:

    NijaG said: “Have to 100% co-sign again on this statement. I look at some of these WW that some of these BM choose and all I do is just shake my head and laugh at these Negros and what this says about them. These men won’t ever date seriously or marry the BW equivalent of these WW.
    Who honestly thinks Seal would have married the BW version of Heidi?
    Would Reggie ever think to date and parade proudly the BW version of KK?
    Or the Ball player who married Kendra, Hef’s ex?”

    My reply: I get amused whenever people talk about Heidi and Seal as if they are some Romeo and Juliet story. Black men even throw round jabs like the fact that Tyra broke up with him, and he’s now moved on to Heidi, because apparently, Heidi was the better deal. This woman (Klum) was with Seal a few years ago. She dumped him for Flavio Briatorre, and Italian Billionaire playboy type (you know, those men who are just incapable of acting their age). She got pregnant for Flavio, who then dumped her. She ran back to Seal, already pregnant with another man’s child, and this negro took her back. The fact is that he wasn’t her first choice. Just take a look at pictures of this Italian fellow. Billionaire or nor, he is a slimy lizard. Yet Heidi Klum would rather have been with this bloated up man who didn’t even treat her particularly well than with Seal, despite the fact that Seal had money. It is only when things got to a point where she knew she was no longer as much of a catch as she thought that she then decided to ‘settle’ for him. And while we are at it, although he is now married to a much younger woman, the only woman who ever caught his eye, and kept his interest was Naomi Campbell. Hence the reason that they were on/off lovers for several years. When he was in a relationship with anyone else, the moment he got wind that Naomi was available, he always came back running. Also, it seems that she is one of the few, if not the only of his girlfriends that he took seriously. He has invested in many of Naomi’s business ventures. When he bought a football club in the UK, he invited her to come to the owner’s box. For all the grief that Miss Campbell gets (and trust me, she has some issues), she obviously know how to ‘do her thing’ when it comes to relationships because she seems to have ‘caught’ quite a few powerful men in a way other women just couldn’t do it.

    I’m just saying this because anytime some negro mentions Heidi and Seal, you all can at least know what the story really is. He ended up with a woman who really wanted a particular white man who really wanted a particular black woman. Seal did not get a good deal!

    As for Reggie Bush and that Kardashian woman, frankly, if a man is going to look at some plastic surgery buttock-enhanced creature that got urinated on in a video by some other dodgy male, he must truly love her. I won’t even address the football player that ‘married’ someone who wasn’t even good enough to be one of 80-odd year old Hugh Hefner’s main squeezes, but had to settle for being his slag heap! For a group of men who already have very low marriage rates to begin with, it seems that they are all too eager to ‘wife’ anything in a skirt, as long as she is pale.

    And to the vast numbers of AA women who let AA men deceive you into thinking that marriage is irrelevant. Look at who Kim Kardashian’s sister (Khloe) married. Now, I’m not one to talk about people’s looks, but for the sake of this conversation, I’ll just mention that Khloe is the least attractive of all her sisters. She recently married a black basketball player after he knew her for just four months. This negro had a baby momma and four kids. Yet, he never married her. She was so angry about the fact that she wasn’t good enough for him to marry, even after four children, but he was more than happy to put a ring on this Khardashian woman’s finger after only knowing her for a few months. But really, how much of a right does she have to be angry. Afterall, she is now in a situation that SHE LET occur.

  7. NijaG says:

    NijaG,

    Thank you for taking the time to contribute substantive comments to this conversation. Our dialogue has prompted me to see some angles to this situation that I hadn’t considered before.

    Peace, blessings and solidarity.

    You’re welcome. I’m glad I found these BWE blogs. I’m learning so much from them. Sometimes, I think maybe I shouldn’t express certain thoughts/ideas, because it might be perceived wrongly or my angle is totally off-base. Then I remember that we’re all here to learn from one another and if what I’m saying is wrong or crazy someone can check me.

    Your work is great, so keep doing what you’re doing. I know there are probably many lurkers (especially BW) reading and learning from here. Many, who feel for the first time, that they aren’t crazy. That what they’re have been noticing and observing in the AA community is validated by the topics you write about.

  8. NijaG says:

    Jalili,

    My younger brother told me that in Mega Plaza now, if a guy as much as makes a girl uncomfortable, he is thrown out by security, no questions asked. A lot of the Nigerian guys who went there used to complain as they usually went to chat up ‘cream’ chicks (‘cream chicks’ kind of means someone who bougie). Now, because of the rules that the owner implemented, the young ladies are able to go there and enjoy themselves without having to worry about being harassed.

    You know, now that I think about it, when I went back home recently, I did notice less street harassment in general. At least compared to years ago when I grew up there.
    *********************************************************

    The reason this happens is that there are too many foolish Nigerian women, and by extension, African women, who like AA women, are too dumb to realise that they can and should use the law to protect themselves. It’s not uncommon, at least from how frequent I see it happening in Nigerian films, for a man’s family, after his death, to barge in and throw his widow out of her and her husband’s house, and take his wealth. Obviously, they know who to try such nonsense with, more likely with uneducated women.

    I don’t think it’s fair to say they are foolish or dumb. It’s hard to find in depth and unbiased accounts of the true customs and traditions of any African tribes, especially in relation to women. I’ve read a few on Nigeria (Igbo specifically) and also from certain things my Dad has said and there is a lot that suggests that women before colonization and the introduction of Christianity/Islam had way more autonomy, power and equality in the society than what we currently believed.

    Many of the traditional benefits/advantages women experienced back then got corrupted or twisted. The reasons had a lot to do with the misogynistic views European men at that time had of a woman’s place in society, which was based on how they treated their own women in those days.

    Think about it. You have a group of men who are being oppressed in their own countries. Majority are now powerless. They are being indoctrinated with these new religions (taught with a misogynistic angle) and their colonizers view of women at the time is that we are weaker than men and should be under their control.
    Sista, what do you think happened?

    Slowly, but surely things are gradually changing for women (speaking of Nigeria). Part of it is women getting more educated and becoming more financially independent. The other, is the influence of Western feminist and Equal Rights movement. Also, I would say that men to are albeit slowly, beginning to change their own attitudes. My personal belief has always been that any society that wants to advance and continue on has to truly put the best interest of their women and children at the forefront.

    So this only serves to breed even further jealousy on the part of these men as they see ‘their’ women having access to a certain lifestyle that will never be theirs.

    Men at the bottom are always jealousy of men at higher levels than themselves. It could play out between races/ethnicity and class level or in the same race but different class levels. Power, hierarchy, and evolution at its finest, gotta love it.

    I mean women experience the same thing but a little differently. Like Evia says, women regardless of race/class have the “female card” which if used wisely has always helped women (especially those w/o much social advantages) improve their life and by extension their families. Men, especially if they are in the lower rungs of the social ladder have always known this. That’s why you see so much effort to discourage women in their groups.