Magical Thinking About Sex
PAY ATTENTION TO THE REALITY YOU SEE ALL AROUND YOU
This is the second chapter in a series of “Fantasy Island needs to be nuked; before it’s too late” posts. When discussing serious issues, it’s scary to see so many African-Americans regurgitate slogans instead of admitting the reality they see all around them. This refusal to recognize reality is why African-Americans are forming a permanent underclass in the United States. The causes and solutions to many of our collective problems are obvious. But we refuse to see them because they contradict the various ideological slogans that we’ve been hypnotically repeating for the past forty-five years (and counting).
This post is, and at the same time isn’t, about sex. In many situations, the quality of the sexual experiences that people are having and their consequences are actually proxies for other issues. Issues such as communication, respect, self-respect and reciprocity. It’s similar to how salary negotiations aren’t only about the money; the monetary figure is often a proxy for professional respect.
TOO MANY AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN MAKE BAD CHOICES AND THEN PRETEND THAT THEY DIDN’T HAVE A CHOICE
From the things that we say, it’s apparent that many African-Americans don’t believe in free will. No matter what the issue might be, we consistently pretend that we didn’t have any choice except the self-destructive choices that we make. Well, that’s usually not true. I’m fed up with hearing that particular untruth.
What triggered this series of posts was seeing a commenter at another blog argue that there was a “mythology” about African-American women lowering their standards. That African-American women who settle for man-sharing are making “rational” decisions based on the shortages of male peers in their communities. And finally, that they suffer consequences such as single parenthood, high rates of domestic violence and high HIV infection rates due to this so-called rational decision to share a partner.
Of course, various studies were invoked to buttress this argument. I was outdone by this argument. First, because I’m weary of watching other laypeople boldly run with the purported results of studies without understanding their limitations. See the following article from New Scientist, Most Scientific Papers Are Probably Wrong. Second, because anyone who has dealt with working scientists knows they use extremely cautious language when describing the purported results of their studies.
Also, the key phrase in that commenter’s argument was “male peers in their communities.” Meanwhile, there’s nothing restricting African-American women to “their” communities. Or to the numerically fewer African-American “male peers” in “their” community. African-American women aren’t marooned on an island. Many of them go to work everyday where they are literally surrounded by men from other races and ethnic groups. Some of these non-Black men have approached them, only to be ignored and rebuffed in favor of waiting for the chimerical “good Black man.” And later on, as a result of this self-created desperation, many African-American women choose to make do with inferior situations with Black men.
These are all choices. Irrational and self-destructive ones.
WHEN MAGICAL THINKING ABOUT SEX = A LIFETIME OF “HIGH SCHOOL SEX”
I can’t remember who said this, but I heard somebody make the distinction between “high school sex” and “grown-up sex.” “High school sex” is furtive, can only be done in pitch-black darkness, and is filled with shame and embarrassment. It’s generally a bad experience. “Grown-up sex” is openly discussed with one’s partner, and can be done in full daylight without shame or embarrassment. This is generally a better experience.
When women choose to have sex with men that they can’t talk to about important things (including the sex they’re having), the odds are that won’t be a good experience. There’s bad sex that is gradually improving because the partners are talking to each other, learning what pleases the other partner, and making adjustments. There’s also bad sex that will always be bad because the woman is faking her reactions and doesn’t bother to talk to her partner. And finally, there’s bad sex that will always be bad because the woman chooses to continue having sex with a selfish man who doesn’t care about pleasing her. Even after being told how she feels.
From what I hear, far too many African-American women either fake their reactions during sex, or persist in having sex with men who have made it clear they don’t care about pleasing them. Some women go so far as to marry men who have made it plain that they don’t care about pleasing them. Since many (if not most) couples have premarital sex, these women were put on notice about their partner’s selfish ways. And then these women want to play the victim of an inept or selfish male partner.
No. None of this is about sexual techniques or prowess. The bad sex is one of many manifestations of other deficits (lack of communication, lack of reciprocity, and so on) in a voluntarily chosen relationship. These women choose to live in dissatisfaction. That is their free and voluntary choice.
Unfortunately, from the things I hear, it sounds like many Black people are having “high school sex.” Even as chronological adults. Even years into their marriages. Even until they die. What a shame. Each woman needs to ask herself whether this is what she wants for the sexual part of her life. I believe that part of it is cultural due to Black folks’ mostly religion based upbringings. The Black church and the Black mosque tend to be totally and defiantly out of touch with reality when it comes to sexuality issues. Even when their refusal to give candid, reality based guidance leads to the literal death and destruction of their members.
Even with all of that, I’ve always believed that once you’re an adult you are responsible for how you live your life. As a teenager I realized that parents are responsible for people being clueless as children. But once you’re a certain age, it’s up to you to decide whether you want to remain clueless. So, even though my parents never directly discussed sexual matters when I was a teenager, I marched out and bought a copy of “Our Bodies, Ourselves” to read about the things my mother was not telling me.
When I was in college, a small group of close friends and I sat down, bought various “The Joy of _____ Sex” books, laughed a lot, and discussed various things over pizza. There was one lesbian in the group, one guy, me, and another straight girl. We figured that we would discuss ways of approaching these conversations with our respective partners. The guy friend wanted to hear how other women felt about the various positions that he wanted to ask his girlfriend to experiment with. He seemed to be on a mini Kama Sutra quest. We gave our various reviews: “That looks uncomfortable for the girl . . . Who in their right mind would want to do that? . . . . Now, that one might be pretty good . . . “
I’ve never understood grown women who choose to remain clueless or dissatisfied.
MAGICAL THINKING ABOUT “UNPLANNED,” ACCIDENTALLY-ON-PURPOSE PREGNANCIES
Don’t automatically believe people who claim that their illegitimate children were the result of unplanned pregnancies. From what I can tell after years of talking to acquaintances, relatives, and large numbers of clients, many (if not most) of these pregnancies are more accurately described as happening “accidentally on purpose.” I’ve known several women who chose to get pregnant by particular men because they wanted to have light-skinned babies. One woman had a history of terminating two (relatively recent) pregnancies caused by dark-skinned men, and continuing the third pregnancy caused by the light-skinned man. I’ve known teenage girls who chose to get pregnant because they wanted somebody who (they believed) would give them unconditional love. Leon Dash observed a similar pattern that he described in his book When Children Want Children.
I’ve known several women who chose to get pregnant in hopes of delaying their husbands from leaving them. Of course, when directly asked all of these women and girls claimed to have been completely surprised about getting pregnant. The real motives are usually revealed bit by bit over time during unrelated conversations.
The mileage may vary in terms of what degree of calculation was involved in the pregnancy. It can range from a calculated, deliberate plan to get the other sexual partner “caught up,” to varying degrees of “I don’t care what happens and I’m indifferent/willing/eager to get pregnant.” Note that there are also males who want to get women “caught up.” The typical scenario with this is the male who isn’t going anywhere productive in his life and wants to make sure the woman or girl doesn’t go anywhere either. This, or the male wants to have a permanent “anchor” connecting him to a particular, usually more ambitious woman.
The only women I’ve known who seemed to genuinely accidentally get pregnant have been happily married women who already had the number of children they wanted. The rest of them (teenagers included) had varying degrees of calculation involved in their so-called unplanned pregnancies. Ranging from “I don’t care what happens and I’m willing to get pregnant,” to “I want a baby now,” to (mistakenly) believing that a baby will solidify a shaky relationship or crumbling marriage.
MAGICAL THINKING ABOUT HIV AND AIDS
The extreme versions of this irrational behavior pattern can be fatal. African-American women settling for jailbirds has helped spread HIV and AIDs among Black women. I’ve talked to African-American women who claim to really believe that their men were celibate while in prison. Yeah, right. Black women settling for man-sharing has also helped spread HIV and AIDs among Black women. I’ve talked to Black women who don’t require boyfriends that they know are cheating on them to wear condoms. It’s their party, and they can die if they want to. And of course, many of these magical thinkers claim surprise when they come up HIV+. Yeah, okay.
There’s another irrational game that many African-American women play regarding sexually transmitted diseases. That’s the game of playing “down low detective” by trying to figure out which men might be bisexual. Many African-American women do this, instead of requiring testing and condom use for all partners. And instead of eliminating known high-risk individuals such as (Black male) playboys, jailbirds, and dope fiends from their pool of sexual partners.
These are all choices. Irrational and self-destructive ones. African-American women need to stop pretending that there are no other choices.
[*Audience Note* Please don't submit comments discussing sexual techniques or any other graphic content. They won't be published. That's not what this post is about. Not at all. It's about magical thinking and dishonesty about sexual issues.]
Tagged as: fantasy island needs to be nuked · pop culture detox
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Khadija,
Thanks for this much needed topic. For some reason so many black women shy away from discussing sexual issues that impact their emotional, physical, and spiritual health. How a woman is treated sexually (or in general) comes down to self esteem. A woman who loves and values herself would not allow any man (or anyone) to enter into her sacred womb without the proper vetting process in place. African American women must perform their due diligence to ensure that the man (or woman) she is sexually involved with is safe, disease free, and agrees to the boundaries in their relationship. Unless a woman was raped, there is absolutely no reason why she should have accidental pregnancies or even catch STDs in 2010 living in America.
Speaking on hetero normative relationship, it boggles my mind to hear that women are so desperate they would allow a high risk man to use her womb as a c*m dumpster. Excuse the graphic description but let’s keep it real. So many Black women are allowing men to dump garbage into their body. What’s insane is that you hear so many Christian women falling victim to what I like to call “worldly vices.” This isn’t to throw Christians under the bus because I identify as a Christian as well, but I call it like I see it. I avoid Black churches because that is where a lot of sexual misconduct occurs. No one addresses it. These black churches like to pretend that if they ignore sexual issues long enough it will just go away or people will forget.
African American women need to learn appropriate sexual boundaries whether you choose to be sexually active or celibate. If your parents didn’t teach you, then see a therapist, read books, or research the internet. If you were violated know that you are not a fault, but you have to get to the place where you start the healing process. Don’t allow that demon who violated you sexually to win. After age of 18 you are responsible for your own life. Many of these sexual issues come down to common sense. If your gut doesn’t feel right about something, it’s probably your spiritual alarms going off. I understand our society claims to be sexually liberated but African American women don’t have the same privilege to be wild and sexually undisciplined like White women. That’s reality. Sex can mean life or death for African American woman. I won’t preach about celibacy or what the Bible or Koran states about sex because I recognize that many of us have different spiritual guidelines.
I hope that I can provide something of value in my comments. So Khadija if it’s okay with you, I’ve composed a “list” of issue/concerns/topics that a woman should address before she decides to take on a sexual partner. This list is a combination of advice both my parents presented to me when I was a teenager during the birds and bees talk so I can make an informed decision about my sex life. The other stuff I figured it out based on the foundational principles taught growing up.
1.Avoid men who have been incarcerated all together. Your body isn’t a charity case. Not only are you putting yourself at risk for all kinds of diseases, you may also expose your household and family to other criminal elements your “prison boo” brings with him. I’m all for people getting reformed but MOST criminals (Khadija since you are the lawyer correct me if I’m wrong) don’t change nor do they have the capacity to function in society after they are released which is why many convicts end up going back to prison. There is a very high probability that if your man has been to prison he has engaged in sexual relations with a man or has been raped.
2.If you find yourself falling for someone, have a candid discussion about sex. Find out about their sexual history, likes, dislikes, health, mentality, views etc. Sadly many women get played because they don’t ask the right questions. I don’t believe every man out there is deceptive. In fact many men don’t need to be deceptive because women NEVER GET AROUND TO ASKING THE CRITICAL QUESTTIONS. To me the critical questions are: Have you had any diseases? Are you married? Have you engaged in sex with another man? (Because many men have been asked if they are “gay” and answer no even though they have had sexual relations with another man.) How often do you get checked out? Do you have a history of diseases? Do you have multiple sexual partners? Have you had multiple sexual partners at the same time in the past? Do you believe monogamy? Obviously be clever in how you approach these discussion. Don’t come off as hostile. Be really sweet about it and come off as open so their guard is down.
3.If you do decide to have sex with a guy, get tested for EVERYTHING, not just HIV. There are other STD you don’t’ want to catch such as herpes (the friend that stays forever), gonorrhea, syphilis (I know someone whose syphilis became neuro syphilis…not a good look). If your “man” becomes resistant or hostile about getting tested and showing you the results then you really don’t need to have sex with him. That’s a red flag that he doesn’t care about you or has something to hide. If he dumps you because you are performing due diligence he didn’t give a crap about you in the first place. Every boyfriend I’ve ever had never had a problem with getting tested. In fact we got tested together. They thought it was a brilliant idea.
4.Let’s say the man has passed the background and sexual history check at this point you need to have an open and honest discussion about your expectations. Communicate your needs and boundaries. In the BDSM community they have people who are doms and subs. They discuss hard limits, soft limits, safe words etc… This is an extreme lifestyle example but some of us folks who prefer vanilla sex can learn from this group because people in BDSM communicate very clearly what their needs and limits are when it comes to engaging in sexual activity. Also sex is supposed to be enjoyed by both parties, not just the man. You need to know your body, be comfortable with it, and be very comfortable with the man so you can communicate your needs and vice versa. A real male who is kind and considerate wants to know what you like or dislike. His ego blows up knowing that he can please his woman so why not help his ego out by educating the man on your body?
5.Don’t fake it. Nuff said.
6.Address other issues in your relationships. The key is communication. If your public and private lives are falling apart, your sex life will suffer.
7.Surround yourself around people who are supportive of you and will act as your advocates. This will probably be only a small hand full of people. These are the folks who love, adore, and have your best interest at heart. These folks are your inner circle who know all your crap and love you anyway. However even in your crap they will correct you in love and not feed your nonsense. It’s good to have a support system like this so you can share ideas, concerns, and how to approach your spouse/significant other about certain issues. But I caution you don’t spill all of your business. Not everyone and their mom should be part of your inner circle. The folks in your inner circle are your safe zone and have proven to be trust worthy.
8.Keep up with your own health issues and concerns. Watch your weight. Fat isn’t the new sexy. Health issues will impact your sex life so stay on top of them.
Muse,
You’re welcome! Thank you for starting off this conversation with a thoughtful comment.
You said, “How a woman is treated sexually (or in general) comes down to self esteem. A woman who loves and values herself would not allow any man (or anyone) to enter into her sacred womb without the proper vetting process in place.”
This is the bottom line. There are many, many African-American women and girls who are so broken inside that they can’t enforce any boundaries with anybody. I do understand that. And I understand who it is that’s doing the mental and emotional “breaking” of Black girls and women—mostly African-American males. However, this does not erase the fact that there ARE choices. Some women are too broken and destroyed to take advantage of available choices, but these choices still exist.
You said, “Unless a woman was raped, there is absolutely no reason why she should have accidental pregnancies or even catch STDs in 2010 living in America.”
The ideologues among us like to pretend that this behavior is totally about lack of information or lack of money. No. There are some other things also going on with these issues. Unfortunately, there are plenty of highly educated, financially savvy African-American women who are allowing BM to use them as semen dumpsters. Period. Let’s stop pretending that this is purely about economic class and education.
You said, “What’s insane is that you hear so many Christian women falling victim to what I like to call “worldly vices.” This isn’t to throw Christians under the bus because I identify as a Christian as well, but I call it like I see it. I avoid Black churches because that is where a lot of sexual misconduct occurs.”
Oh, it’s the same—actually worse in some ways—with African-American Sunni (“orthodox”) Muslim mosques. I talk about this in a chapter of the book. It’s also the reason why I urge AA Sunni Muslim women to FLEE AA Sunni mosques. To save their own lives, their children’s lives and their Islam (submission to God). What corrupt AA (Sunni) Muslims do is have a series of religious-ceremony-only “marriages.” That’s why there are Sunni Muslim BM who have been religiously “married” 5, 10+ times! Some of these males remain “married” for only as long as it takes to consummate the “marriage.”
AA Sunni Muslims have these fake religious marriages simply in order to make the sex “legal” under religious law. It’s crazy. And the destruction that this behavior inflicts on the multiple abandoned children created by this madness is a catastrophe.
You said, “African American women need to learn appropriate sexual boundaries whether you choose to be sexually active or celibate. If your parents didn’t teach you, then see a therapist, read books, or research the internet. If you were violated know that you are not a fault, but you have to get to the place where you start the healing process. Don’t allow that demon who violated you sexually to win. After age of 18 you are responsible for your own life.”
ITA.
You said, “Avoid men who have been incarcerated all together. Your body isn’t a charity case.”
THANK YOU!!!
You said, “Not only are you putting yourself at risk for all kinds of diseases, you may also expose your household and family to other criminal elements your “prison boo” brings with him.”
ITA. Women need to remember Jennifer Hudson’s murdered family.
Muse, from what I’ve seen while representing them, most criminals have NO interest whatsoever in changing, much less reforming themselves. They’re looking to keep doing whatever they’ve been doing—only without having to face any consequences. That’s what criminals want. They don’t care about making productive changes in their lives. That’s just the fast talk that they reserve for people who are silly and naive enough to buy into those lies.
You said, “In the BDSM community they have people who are doms and subs. They discuss hard limits, soft limits, safe words etc… This is an extreme lifestyle example but some of us folks who prefer vanilla sex can learn from this group because people in BDSM communicate very clearly what their needs and limits are when it comes to engaging in sexual activity.”
I had forgotten about them. Yes, they’re a good example of people who are clear about their needs, wishes, and boundaries.
You said, “Because many men have been asked if they are “gay” and answer no even though they have had sexual relations with another man.”
I learned from talking to the lesbian friend I mentioned in the post that this kind of self-delusional nonsense is an extra layer of madness that self-aware gay, lesbian and bisexual people deal with. She had issues with other young women who wanted to have sex with her—all while aggressively claiming that they were “straight.” Apparently, there are legions of people who consistently and repeatedly engage in gay/lesbian sex—while simultaneously denying that they themselves are gay, lesbian or bisexual. That’s crazy.
You said, “Keep up with your own health issues and concerns. Watch your weight. Fat isn’t the new sexy. Health issues will impact your sex life so stay on top of them.”
ITA.
Expect Success!
Khadija
You said: I learned from talking to the lesbian friend I mentioned in the post that this kind of self-delusional nonsense is an extra layer of madness that self-aware gay, lesbian and bisexual people deal with. She had issues with other young women who wanted to have sex with her—all while aggressively claiming that they were “straight.” Apparently, there are legions of people who consistently and repeatedly engage in gay/lesbian sex—while simultaneously denying that they themselves are gay, lesbian or bisexual. That’s crazy.
Two of my very close and dear friends are gay who have shared stories about hooking up with men that identify as heterosexual. I’m fascinated that these people can claim to be heterosexual with a straight face (no pun intended). My position on homosexuality is that your preference is between you, God, and your partner. I can discriminate/exclude anyone from my dating pool if I feel that their behavior is inappropriate. I don’t have to be politically correct when it comes to my body or in search of a life partner to possibly grow old with and sire my children.
The issue for me comes down to partner sharing which is a huge no-no for me regardless if the person is gay, straight, or bi-sexual. I have respect for individuals who are authentic about their lifestyle. A man who hides his sexuality from his partner is deceitful. Also lies don’t stop in one area. If he can lie about something so critical as his sexuality then what other information could this man is withholding? Lies spread like a virus; they don’t stop until everything is consumed. This issue isn’t about being on the down low but deception. If a man is ashamed of his sexuality because of societal pressure and discrimination then that is something he will have to work through. However don’t put up a façade by playing the heterosexual game by marrying a woman but continue to with men on the side. The irony is that I don’t even think down low black men are the issue. The issue is promiscuous Black men who believe that having relations with multiple women at the same time and unprotected sex is appropriate. If Black women want to be part of the polyamorous movement (which seems to be the trend these days) then God bless you, but that’s not for me. Stand strong about your boundaries. You don’t have to accept what is being force fed by the dysfunctional masses.
I can’t help but chuckle @ high-school sex. There is a whole lotta poundin’ goin’ on. In all honesty, the sex convos with my black and non-black friends are very, very different.
The shame and distortion of our sexuality runs very deep. You see it in the music that expresses our sexuality as either an undulating booty (male gaze) or sappy rose-petals on the bed smoov jazz kind of thing.
definitely much needed discussion, I’ll pass it on to my friends. I have a question though about this quote:
“AA Sunni Muslims have these fake religious marriages simply in order to make the sex “legal” under religious law. It’s crazy. And the destruction that this behavior inflicts on the multiple abandoned children created by this madness is a catastroph.”
Its news to me, since majority of Sunni Muslim community whether its African/Arab/Asian/White/etc, it rarely happens, but very popular within Shia Muslims. How long his this practice been going on among African American Muslims in the State?
Its called ‘Mut’ah,’ for those who want to know the theological name….a temporary marriage well known in Iran and Lebanese Hizbullah community. Its forbidden in Islam since it makes a mockery out of marriage and creates a permanent fatherless children, when marriage in Islam aught to be about completing ones faith by fulfilling his/her sexual needs and desire within the bound of such a union.
I remember few yrs back it was somewhat popular in Egypt among young people who wanted to have sex, but most of the girls would not without marriage. I talked to a friend of mine against such a stupid move and explained how she’s cheapening herself since the gain is mostly on the man ‘s side (many of these temporary marriages are done in secret and some men deny it ever happened, esp. when the girl gets pregnant).
sorry for the double post, but I just remembered when I was working and living in Kenya right after uni, my boss who became my good friend amazing advice. She told me when and if I decide to have sex or marry, make sure to be honest with your partner and never ever trust any man without protection. She’s been in a committed 4 yr relationship to a man she became engage to when I left and was adamant about never sleeping wit any man without protection, regardless of how long they’ve been together. Since blacks and African women have the highest rate of AIDS and sexually transmitted diseases in the world (India and China running a close second), its a glaring reality of the lack of respect many have over their body and sexuality. It seems we want to live like any modern western society without the responsibility that comes with premarital sex. Its not like the white community have less sex, in fact most white women had multiple partners, yet know how to protect themselves. On the other hand most black women, Africans in particular are infected with AIDS by their 1st or 2nd partner. Its like the concept of wrapping it up seems to elude them. Until our culture accepts these safe practices and discuss it honestly, nothing will change.
The high rate of pregnancy within the black community is also another glaring issue because no one seems to take birth control and condoms seriously.
Thats right LaJane—-there are NO SONGS ABOUT LOVE for teenagers to sing–only undulating booty songs or sappy rose petals——it’s everywhere; it’s because women all over,even educated ones who could take care of themselves, don’t value themselves.Many people are walking STDs today.
Hodan,
I’m talking about Sunni AA males engaging in behavior that was condemned by their beloved medieval Arab Muslim scholars: “marrying with the intention of divorce.” And a speedy divorce at that. See this post, http://singularvoice.wordpress.com/2009/04/23/prostitution-by-another-name/
The situation is so far out of control that other AA male Muslims coined a name for these individuals who go from “wife” to “wife”—”joyriders.” The joyriders, the criminals posing as imams, and their followers succeeded in having an honest AA Muslim man’s blog taken down. The blog was called “Salafi Burnout.” He talked about many, many joyriders and other miscreants.
To sum it up, many AA Sunni Muslim males have continued the same behaviors they were involved in pre-Islam (wife beating; promiscuity; refusing to work for a living; refusing to support their children; living off of women; and so on). Only they’ve found fake religious “justification” for these behaviors. The same old poisons have been poured into a shiny new bottle with a shiny label marked “Islam.” They do this with the complicity of idiotic AA Sunni Muslim women, many of whom accepted Islam in order to please these men.
The insanity within the ranks of AA Sunni Muslims is a whole other topic, and one that is much too long to get into here. But for an overall recap of some of it, you can read the following 2 posts from a working-class WM Muslim blogger:
(1) About the AA Sunni Muslim males who live off the welfare receipts of their multiple “wives.” Which caused the welfare department in one area to perceive Muslim women as “Holy Whores.” Excerpt:
From A Sister’s Experiences From the 1980s Salafi Movement.
(2) About the rise and fall of the Salafi movement insanity among AA Sunni Muslims. Here.
Another large chunk of madness exposed by an honest BM Sunni Muslim blogger—at least one AA Sunni imam teaching other AA Sunni Muslims that Arabs are a Master Race.
Expect Success!
thank you for the links, I’ll read it and pass it on wide and far. Its so freakishly strange, but yesterday I went to MC a fundraising dinner for one of my good friend’s husband and one of my co-MC was a Muslim woman who was married to AA muslim man who dumped her after 10 days. I was like this is bizarre since I read this on your blog then within 48 hrs met someone who actually lived it. Apparently he married other women in similar situation and had children by them. At lease she was lucky to get the heck out so soon and divorce him, even thou her family who are not blacks were against it from the get go.
I was talking to my mom about this and she told me the importance of how you were raised and what is condoned in your own culture has a powerful hold on you. As the Prophet of Allah said, the best of you before Islam (in term of character and integrity) are the best of you within Islam. Conversion does nothing for you if you continue the same practices of Jahiliyah..ie ignorance and perversion, esp. when you have leaders within your own community who condone it.
The expression “high school sex” sums it up really. I had no idea I was having high school sex until I was in a beautiful relationship with a white man. I would say the key difference is freedom and responsibility. He made it clear he was interested in pleasing me and this encouraged me to be responsible in communicating my desires. Sadly many black women don’t allow themselves the freedom to learn what they want. You have to know that before you can communicate it to another.
Given the overtly sexual videos out there you would think black women are having a wonderful time sexually. On the contrary. Many of us are in relationships where we are silent about what we actually want and are partnered with men who are uninterested in finding out. And frankly this behaviour is an abdication of our responsibility to self.
Ironically the pornification of sex has helped to increase our lack of freedom as individuals try to emulate what they view rather than be honest about their true needs and desires. We need to reject the inferior ‘bump and grind’ approach to sex, accept we are responsible for the quality of our sex lives, exercise true choice and eliminate men we know won’t deliver. More importantly we need to have the confidence to love what we love and accept nothing less.
Sorry I missed participation in the previous post, when I got to it, comments were closed. (Missed it by THAT much!) I had stuff to say too. Oh well, I guess I’ll have to do it at my spot.
Good post. You and the commenters have already covered most of the points as far as I can see. I just wanted to add: If a man is selfish, indifferent, and lazy in other aspects of the relationship, you can expect the exact same behavior in the bedroom. It’s a character issue.
wow, the part where you said “it’s your party you can die if you want to” was so powerful it should be made into tee-shirts and bumper stickers.
I’m frustrated and pissed over the fact that some bw I know have put up with losers and were having sex with men who were know cheaters. It’s disgusting. I would rather have no man than HIV. WTH are these women thinking? And from what they say, they sex isnt even good (BUT EVEN IF THE SEX WAS GOOD, IT WOULDNT BE WORTH IT).
Khadijah,
I am glad you mentioned that men are engaging in the “accidentally on purpose” phenomenon as well.
The BC has deluded ourselves into thinking that it is only the women who are getting pregnant to trap men. We never talk about the men who intentionally get women pregnant as a way to lock them down and control them w/o having to marry them. If the man actually is thinking of marriage, but wants to sow his oats for another 5, 10, 20, years impregnating the woman will allow him to buy more time. She can’t as easily leave him if she is saddled with his kid(s).
This is yet another reason that BW have to stop having OOW children. In addition to the social and economic implications, you lose power in the relationship. Once you have the man’s child, he has ALL the power. He can choose to marry you or not. He can choose to financially support you or not. Your now limited options have given him inflated power.
I am stunned that BW aren’t hip to this. If it is obvious to you and I (and I suspect the countless others who read this blog), how come other BW can’t see that they are getting played like this? Magical thinking indeed.
As far as the issue of satisfaction, that is a rather humorous issue to me. I thought that the reason that BW just CANT date a WM is that BM are such great lovers. You will hear BW say over and over how a WM just can’t “hold it down” like a brotha. I am trying to not be graphic here, but I am sure you get my point. So you mean these oh-so-great-in-bed BM are actually not so great after all? Then what on earth is the constant posturing by BW about? LOL.
As far as HIV/AIDS goes, I must admit that I keep my mouth shut when these topics come up or when I am at one of these “awareness” events. I feel like the conversations are so disingenuous. Everyone is out there with their charts and graphs and repeats rhetoric about needing more “education.” Everyone is avoiding the element of the room: that BM for the most part are the ones infecting these women! Once BW stop having sex with DBRBM, the infection rate in that group would plummet. One of the problems with HIV/AIDS “outreach” is that it has become way too PC. You will constantly hear people say “everyone’s at risk!!!” This reminds me of people who say “crime can happen anywhere!!!!” That may be true, but it happens more in some places than others. People need to get real about the fact that certain people and situations carry more risk than others and act accordingly.
I know that we are not an unintelligent people, so I am at a loss as to why this magical thinking is so ingrained in our communities. The only conclusion I can come up with is denial. If BW living in the hood were to say that they would not date high risk men (womanizers, drug addicts, ex-cons, DL men) then that leaves her with virtually no one to date. She would then be forced to admit that in order to have a healthy, safe relationship she would have to leave the hood and consider men from all backgrounds. I guess this realization is too painful and so we stay in fantasy land instead.
“If BW living in the hood were to say that they would not date high risk men (womanizers, drug addicts, ex-cons, DL men) then that leaves her with virtually no one to date. She would then be forced to admit that in order to have a healthy, safe relationship she would have to leave the hood and consider men from all backgrounds.”
What’s so terrible is that it’s not just the women in the hood. If a woman is struggling herself, then another woman who doesn’t want that struggle tries not to make the same mistakes.
But now there are women that are doing well enough to have an internet connection or a talk show – women with access to the lives of millions of other BW, who are saying that it’s ok to date loser guys.
It’s places like Essence, which is geared to women across different classes, or people like Jill Scott (sorry, love her music but don’t support her views) who, when they talk about men, make it seem like there are no romantic options but for BW to jump through fire to get a man (and only a BM will do.)
I know I read it here, or on Muslim Bushido, about how women of higher socio-economic classes can spout the same mess as lower classes do, but so elouqently that it sounds like logic.
There are upcoming Black girls that hear what these women say. It’s not the women in the hood that are telling the college girls to wait for the Black Prince on the west beach of Fantasy Island. Or that their dark skin and afro hair means that no one will love them.
**Warning: VERY Long Reply. LOL!**
Mochachoc,
For me, the 1980s more or less took me from high school through law school. It always shocks me to realize how much the quality of BW’s lives has diminished in just the past 25 years.
I will also note that the modern mass diminished quality of life for BW is a galaxy away from how my mother’s generation experienced life as teenage AA girls during the 1950s! After I became an adult, my older female relatives started sharing more substantive details of their earlier lives as teenagers and young women. Surprise, surprise—many teenagers were having sex in the 1950s. Well, be that as it may, I learned that most young AA women in the 1950s were NOT living this modern “semen dumpster” lifestyle! Not even the so-called “fast girls” who were sleeping around and frequently catching the “old-school” stds. That level of cr*p and acceptance of heavy-duty mistreatment was reserved for prostitutes.
The bizarre things I hear from younger BW are so FAR outside my teenage and young adult experiences (and those of most other BW in my age group) that it’s difficult for me to process them.
Apparently Common Features Of Younger BW’s Lives That Have Shocked Me:
(1) I was outdone to discover that there are large numbers of BW who go through all FOUR years of college without having a single date. Meanwhile, the White, Latina, Asian, and so-called “biracial” girls are going out on dates on a regular basis. These Black girls aren’t dating because they are restricting themselves to dating BM only. Meanwhile, there’s numerically fewer BM on these campuses (whether HBCUs or White universities); and BM students are NOT restricting themselves to only BW. Read the comments to the following post For The Love of God, DON’T Send Your Daughters to Historically Black Collleges!. [I'll also note that, quiet as it's kept, these HBCUs are becoming HIV/AIDs infection centers. I mention several news stories about that in the comments to that post.]
(2) I was outdone to discover that, if they want to date at places like Howard University, then many BW students have to date males who are NOT students at that school. And a Howard grad actually wrote in to me to defend this mess! That’s crazy. If you have to go OFF-campus and deal with males who are NOT your peers in order to socialize, then you need to find another school to attend. It’s important to have NORMAL dating experiences at that age.
(3) I was outdone to learn that there are large numbers of young BW who have only “hooked-up” with men, and have NEVER been taken out to dinner on a real date.
(4) I was outdone to discover that there are large numbers of educated, financially savvy BW whose “dates” with BM consist of: picking the AA male up in their own car, driving the AA male to the outing, “going Dutch” and paying half of the dinner and entertainment tab, and then driving the AA male back to his home. With or without then having sex with this male at his home. [?????!] I had never heard of such. And I keep repeating the phrase “educated and financially savvy BW” because the commenter whose comments triggered this series of posts seems to think it’s only uneducated and poor BW who are mixed up in this type of degrading behavior.
This mess is all connected. And it sets up BW to have permanently diminished lives. As I said at the previous blog,
*************************************************
You said, “The expression “high school sex” sums it up really. . . . Sadly many black women don’t allow themselves the freedom to learn what they want. You have to know that before you can communicate it to another.”
I can understand a person beginning their sexual life in that posture. What I don’t understand is how folks continue to live like that. And how that sort of experience becomes normalized on a mass scale. That’s unfortunate. {shaking my head}
You said, “Given the overtly sexual videos out there you would think black women are having a wonderful time sexually. On the contrary. Many of us are in relationships where we are silent about what we actually want and are partnered with men who are uninterested in finding out. And frankly this behaviour is an abdication of our responsibility to self.”
Yes, it is an abdication of responsibility to oneself.
You said, “Ironically the pornification of sex has helped to increase our lack of freedom as individuals try to emulate what they view rather than be honest about their true needs and desires.”
This is an important point. I haven’t seen current hip-hop “music” videos in years. But I remember the overall impression that I formed of that stuff. I’m always perplexed by folks’ choice to emulate that music video mess—do the women in those videos look even the slightest bit HAPPY? That’s what always struck me about those music videos that I did see. There’s NO emotional warmth emanating from the scenes shown in them. There are no smiles, grins, or even smirks.
Why in the world would somebody want to emulate women who don’t even look happy?
You said, “We need to reject the inferior ‘bump and grind’ approach to sex, accept we are responsible for the quality of our sex lives, exercise true choice and eliminate men we know won’t deliver. More importantly we need to have the confidence to love what we love and accept nothing less.”
ITA.
Expect Success!
I was a “semi-mature virgin”. I didn’t date at all until my last year of undergrad and then had a long roller coaster ride where I learned a lot of lessons I should have learned in high school. I decided against having children at a young age and was terrified of getting an STD so I had enough wherewithal to insist upon joint STD testing and condom use, but I didn’t have a high enough sense of self worth to weed out a series of men who were emotionally abusive at worst and indifferent about me at best. I had not grown up in a household where love and dependability were a given so I didn’t expect it in my adult relationships either. Fortunately, the abusive upbringing that I had also taught me great independence- eventually I realized I had to work things out on my own end and that I’d rather be alone than unvalued or mistreated. I just stopped dating for about 5 years until
I got myself straight.
That process was hard enough so I thank God I never had any friends or family members feeding me poison about settling for jailbirds and lowlife loafers just to have a man. How can that be a rational choice when we see quite clearly what comes of that?
I have a BW younger M.S. degree-holding colleague who has been living with the same retail-job-working BM for nearly a decade with no talk of marriage. The car he drives to work is hers because he does not have one. She purchased the furnishings in their place, and they would have an out of wedlock child right now if not for a miscarriage. I was going to say she had the audacity to post slogans about black love on her Facebook profile, but actually her relationship is just about the epitome of black love- lowered expectations and no return on investment.
I wish this post got as much discussion as the “beat’cha kids” post, lol. Inequality in the bedroom is usually a sign of inequality in the overall relationship. One of the side effects of this lack of level playing field that has particularly hit my generation hard is that because men can do what they want, we never develop mature thinking about sex or see women beyond being sexual objects. This failure strengthens the all around magical thinking Black men have about sex/relationships, thus impeding our ability to develop successful partnerships as a culture. So the word commitment becomes hard to say and fah-fi-foe… uhh fuh-deli-tee is omitted from the vocabulary and we all suffer (especially nice guys with good annunciation).
“One of the side effects of this lack of level playing field that has particularly hit my generation hard is that because men can do what they want, we never develop mature thinking about sex or see women beyond being sexual objects. This failure strengthens the all around magical thinking Black men have about sex/relationships, thus impeding our ability to develop successful partnerships as a culture.‘
The problem I have with this is, while BM do have male privilege, they’re not at the top of the male food chain. Not in the US, anyway. The men with the most privilege are the ones who are at the socioeconomic lead: in the US, these are White males.
So if there are any men that can do whatever they wants, they’re White men. But it’s not at all true that they can’t develop mature thinking about women or sex.
Some don’t, because some people are just idiots. Also, in certain ways people aren’t generally mature, because we live in a patriarchy that often rates women by their sexual worth, and makes it so that men are the ones who make that definition. So it’s easy to objectify someone when you’re not letting them speak for themselves.
That’s the opposite of what’s happening w/BW. They’re not at a lower socioeconomic level than men, and they’re not being prevented from speak for themselves. They might be doing it anyway, but there are enough women that really just don’t have to be silent about their relationship needs, because there’s not a overall penalty towards BW as a class. Individuals pay a price, depending on their situation, but as a group? I don’t see that.
So if a BM is allowed to be unaccountable for his actions, there’s good reason to think that there is some woman rewarding him for his behavior.
There are two reasons for that. On one side, the surrounding men don’t hold the first man in check. On the other side, some women groom themselves and younger women to accept substandard treatment. When one of those stops happening, then that’s when the rewards for bad behavior change.
That’s why this post is important, because it asks women, what are you accepting, and why are you reinforcing an emotional/mental culture that says bad treatment is good?
I think that peer groups need to mentor to each other, so I believe that men need to address other men about issues of masculinity and accountability.
But I think that the idea that “men doing whatever they want means they can’t learn” is only true when the penalty is removed for them doing “whatever”. Just because a man can do something, doesn’t mean it’s advantageous for him to do it.
Stereotypically, men are thought to be capable of sacrificing a lot to get what they want. But also being willing to not sacrifice anything if they don’t need to. So a woman shouldn’t expect that low boundaries on her part will mean good behavior on his.
Khadijah, you said: ” as a result of this self-created desperation, many African-American women choose to make do with inferior situations with Black men.
These are all choices. Irrational and self-destructive ones.”
That’s how I used to think…desperate for ‘nuttin’ but a brotha’ and allowed myself to get ‘knocked up’ by my ex. I was into all of that ‘pro-black/stand with my brothas no matter what’ crap. Well, he loved me so much, that he left me pregnant and now I’m raising our son, who’s 12 now. I spent all of my 20s with him, and got pregnant at 30. I can’t believe I was so f’ing stupid. I loved him and believed in all of that garbage.
On ‘high school sex’…I sporadically engaged in it with a guy, and simply stopped about 4 years ago and have been celibate ever since. That guy was one of those ‘what was I thinking moments’. I realized that I’m too old for that crap, and that I deserve better.
Khadijah, you also said: “PAY ATTENTION TO THE REALITY YOU SEE ALL AROUND YOU.
…it’s scary to see so many African-Americans regurgitate slogans instead of admitting the reality they see all around them, because they contradict the various ideological slogans that we’ve been hypnotically repeating for the past forty-five years (and counting).
My mom’s 68, and wants to try to help darn near every bum/crackhead/etc that walks up and down the streets EVERYDAY in our neighborhood. She REFUSES to accept the fact that THE BLACK COMMUNITY NO LONGER EXISTS, and she’s still stuck on TRYNA SAVE ALLAOURPEEPLES. I had to curse out one of those bums and threaten to call the police on a couple of them, because they come by while I’m at work, putting my mom at risk. Would you believe that she got upset with me, and said that I didn’t have to talk to them like that (one of them was a white woman)?? I told her that if they gave a damn about themselves, they’d be out here working and living a decent life instead of drinking/smoking/screwing their lives away and walking around like zombies in this 90-100 degree heat ALL DAMN DAY LONG bumming just enough money for loose cigaretes, drugs and alcohol!! I’ve asked her if they still come by, she says that they don’t.
I see the madness happening all around me, and that’s why I’m saving, working on shedding this weight from all of the emotional eating and back in school and will be graduating in a year and getting up outta here!!
I am so thankful for you, Evia, CW, Halima and all of the other BWE blogs out there. You sistas are getting very critical information out there. As a people AAs aren’t honest with AA girls/women about these issues, and we all know why.
I apologize for being so long winded, but this piece on AA women’s magical thinking had me going. I HAD to say something.
Peace, sista.
Miss V,
In regards to reciprocity and BW giving of themselves DESPITE the possible consequences, You made me think of an incident that just happened last weekend at a bacherlorette get together we had. Another “CAPTAIN SAVE A BROTHER” story if you will. This is in regards to BW going above and beyond to do things for BM just b/c they are Black, only to get slapped in the face later.
Anyway, we had the event at a very nice upscale hotel. One of the ladies (who wasn’t a friend of mine but a friend of the bride to be) had a room at the place. Well the security and bouncers are very tight at this particular location especially in the lounge/bar area. You typically either have to have reservations or be staying at the hotel to enter into the lounge/bar section.
So anyway, this lady needed to go to her room to get something and asked me to go with her. So on our way down to get back into the lounge, there were two Black men in front of us trying to get in. they apparently didn’t have any reservation or a room there so the bouncers were not letting them in. they kept saying they needed to have a room or reservation etc. So this “CAPTAIN SAVE A BROTHER” sister decides she needs to “help da brothers” and says to the bouncer “what’s the problem?? Well you know what I have a room here can they just come in with us? (pointing to me and her). I was so just undone. So b/c the rooms are really expensive at this place the bouncers didn’t want to argue with her (the guest) and proceeded to let the two black men in with us.
So I didn’t say anything b/c I really didn’t know her like that. After we all got in they were all “thank you so much sister, appreciate it’ blah blah. But I made it a point to watch who and what the blk guys interacted with that night. Not b/c I cared but just to kind of have a mental laugh at this fool who risked her own reputation at the hotel if these Blk men had caused any kind of trouble.
of course the whole night who were they up under? All the White non Blk women in the lounge/bar area. Then this “CAPTAIN SAVE A BLACK MAN” sister has the AUDACITY to say to the other BW in the party “see you help brothers out and they run right past you to get to the nearest “snow bunny”.
I remember thinking to myself typical “Captain save a brother” Black woman always going out of her way to do something for a Black man simply b/c he’s BLACK only to get a slap in the face.
This all ties back to BW going out of their way to give of themselves despite receiving no reciprocity whatsoever.
Now if these guys would have caused some kind of trouble inside the lounge guess who would have been responsible – SHE would have b/c she let them in under her name.
I thought what an idiot!
I need to go sit down….that was just…I have no words.
ForeverLoyal,
Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it. You said, “I just wanted to add: If a man is selfish, indifferent, and lazy in other aspects of the relationship, you can expect the exact same behavior in the bedroom. It’s a character issue.”
ITA.
________________________________________________
Jess,
These women aren’t stupid. It’s just that they value some other things more than they value their own lives. I stay FAR AWAY from women like that. I would advise others to get clear of these women also.
This is because if they don’t care about their own lives, they certainly don’t care about yours. I would strongly urge readers to consider the points raised during this post at the previous blog, Close Proximity To DBRBM And Their BF Enablers = Increased Probability of Death During The Next Pandemic.
________________________________________________
Magenta,
You said, “I am glad you mentioned that men are engaging in the “accidentally on purpose” phenomenon as well. The BC has deluded ourselves into thinking that it is only the women who are getting pregnant to trap men. We never talk about the men who intentionally get women pregnant as a way to lock them down and control them w/o having to marry them. If the man actually is thinking of marriage, but wants to sow his oats for another 5, 10, 20, years impregnating the woman will allow him to buy more time. She can’t as easily leave him if she is saddled with his kid(s).”
These men also know that they can significantly reduce a woman’s ability to attract another man—a quality man—to be her husband if she’s already saddled with (some loser’s) children, especially oow children. Like you said, it’s a sabotage and control mechanism that some men use.
You said, “I am stunned that BW aren’t hip to this. If it is obvious to you and I (and I suspect the countless others who read this blog), how come other BW can’t see that they are getting played like this? Magical thinking indeed.”
Because they don’t want to see things as they are. A BM gentleman reader mentioned something to me the other day that is an unfortunate mass pattern—many AA women take what they believe “ought to be” and then run with that. Instead of facing reality.
You said, “As far as the issue of satisfaction, that is a rather humorous issue to me. I thought that the reason that BW just CANT date a WM is that BM are such great lovers. You will hear BW say over and over how a WM just can’t “hold it down” like a brotha. I am trying to not be graphic here, but I am sure you get my point. So you mean these oh-so-great-in-bed BM are actually not so great after all? Then what on earth is the constant posturing by BW about? LOL.”
More tiresome, dishonest Fantasy Island talk.
You said, “As far as HIV/AIDS goes, I must admit that I keep my mouth shut when these topics come up or when I am at one of these “awareness” events. I feel like the conversations are so disingenuous.”
The same with me. I’m too through with those dishonest conversations. I lived through the era when gay men were dropping like flies from AIDs in the 1980s and 1990s. I saw for myself how White gay men cared enough about themselves and their own lives to SAVE their own lives. By engaging in health-related activism. And by taking responsibility for altering their own sexual behavior. I admired White, gay male activists like Larry Kramer.
All Black folks who are surviving thanks to the modern cocktail of HIV/AIDs medications owe a debt of gratitude to the White, gay men activists who made this possible!
Larry Kramer has always been one of my activist heroes. Whenever it’s left up to Black folks (this applies all around this planet), then the afflicted people will simply die. Because most of us don’t care enough about our own lives to take responsibility for saving our own lives. If other people don’t go out of their way to save us, then we die.
You said, “Everyone is out there with their charts and graphs and repeats rhetoric about needing more “education.” Everyone is avoiding the element of the room: that BM for the most part are the ones infecting these women! Once BW stop having sex with DBRBM, the infection rate in that group would plummet.”
Yes. It’s just that simple.
You said, “I know that we are not an unintelligent people, so I am at a loss as to why this magical thinking is so ingrained in our communities. The only conclusion I can come up with is denial. If BW living in the hood were to say that they would not date high risk men (womanizers, drug addicts, ex-cons, DL men) then that leaves her with virtually no one to date. She would then be forced to admit that in order to have a healthy, safe relationship she would have to leave the hood and consider men from all backgrounds. I guess this realization is too painful and so we stay in fantasy land instead.”
ITA. The answers are really quite obvious and simple. But solving these problems would require more AA women to abandon their false comfort zones. And make the personal changes that are needed to successfully navigate the outer world. Many AA women don’t want to do any of that. So, they live AND die on Fantasy Island. And then invent all sorts of arguments in support of the idea that they didn’t have any other choices but the bad ones they made.
Expect Success!
Dwight,
You said, “I wish this post got as much discussion as the “beat’cha kids” post, lol.”
I know, I know . . . I’m always pleasantly surprised when the more quiet, non-controversial posts get any comments at all.
You said, “Inequality in the bedroom is usually a sign of inequality in the overall relationship.”
ITA.
You said, “One of the side effects of this lack of level playing field that has particularly hit my generation hard is that because men can do what they want, we never develop mature thinking about sex or see women beyond being sexual objects. This failure strengthens the all around magical thinking Black men have about sex/relationships, thus impeding our ability to develop successful partnerships as a culture.”
Oh yeah. The more civilized straight men—the kind who actually would like to have stable homes—also suffer in the long run.
It usually takes for some men to hit their 40s (the era when health problems start up for many people and they realize that they’re not immortal) before they realize that there are drawbacks to a life of easy conquests and no reponsibility. And to realize that they never learned the emotional skill set that’s needed to sustain a healthy marriage.
It’s all very interesting. I believe that the mass AIDs die-off of the 1980s and 1990s is what propelled increasing numbers of (White) gay men to recognize the value of stable, committed relationships. It’s not fun to be sick, suffer and then die all alone. I firmly believe that their previous experience of an AIDs epidemic was the origin of the gay White marriage movement.
I believe that the disintegration process is too far gone to be reversed in the AA collective. Single parenting has become the norm; and most AAs at this point have no idea of what a normal marriage looks like from inside the house. It’s harder to do something that one has never seen done. [Unlike the marriage-minded White gay men who grew up with their fathers in the home.]
________________________________________________
MissV,
Let me stress that everybody has made mistakes. The only difference is that some mistakes are visible from the outside, and others aren’t. There are always mistakes. I will note that I’ve done some AMAZINGLY stupid things. The only thing is that I was blessed to be able to conceal these lapses in judgment. LOL!
So, to me, the point is to move forward. Yes, I believe that it’s important to inwardly do post-mortems on the things that went wrong. But only for the purpose of successfully moving forward in the future. Not to beat ourselves up. Like I said, there are always mistakes.
I praise God for my health, other blessings and whatever insights that have come my way. There are so many people I see who are truly, structurally trapped in certain bad situations. There are others who are too physically unhealthy to do much of anything to improve their lives. There are AA women I’ve known who are now dead; and who died in a state of mental anguish and regrets.
Let’s celebrate our good fortune to NOT be in those categories by powerfully and cheerfully moving forward!
Expect Success!
I firmly believe that their previous experience of an AIDs epidemic was the origin of the gay White marriage movement.”
You are absolutely correct. The issues here were that when one person was hospitalized, the other person wasn’t considered a family member. So the healthy person wasn’t able to make health care decisions, or even see their partner if the family forbade it. Also, because any assets held in the sick person’s name couldn’t be kept by the remaining partner. One person would get sick and die, and the other could be kicked out of the home they shared.
It’s very easy to ignore what power really means, until something happens and you need help. That’s why there was a huge push for legal recognition of the relationship status.
This is an important lesson for BW. When BW are in positions where their relationships (parental, familial, economic, social, religious) aren’t backed by the power of the group, they are in a terrible position. It means that all your work can be taken away from you. It really means that if your work isn’t taken away from you, it’s because someone declined to exert the power they hold against you.
Think of the scenario I mentioned about the gay couples. Brad comes out to his parents, and they kick him out of the home. He begins a relationship with Steve. He and Steve build a life together, have assets (even if it’s just enough for beer and pizza, it’s an asset.)
Steve has loved and nurtured Brad, and providing the social, intellectual and economic needs. Steve sticks up his partner against a society that looks down on men like Brad. This is what helps Brad to succeed in his world. Even if it’s a promotion from toilet-scrubbing to burger-flipping, it’s success.
Brad’s family has contributed nothing. But it doesn’t matter, because although Steve has done the work, Brad’s family still has the power. They are the ones who benefit from what Brad has built. Until Steve can make the society he lives in recognize him as a power holder, Steve is always at the mercy of Brad’s family, even though they don’t have to do a lick of work to stay in that superior position. They come in, declare themselves the legal and rightful family, and take whatever they feel is necessary.
When homosexual people realized how much they were losing by not being formally recognized, they began to fight for this recognition.
When BW consent to give up their formal recognition, they’re making a terrible sacrifice. You can give your body to a man, or 20 hours/week of unpaid church labor, or your money, your activism time and anything you want. But until the people you deal with acknowledge you and formally reciprocate with you, all you have is smoke and mirrors.
“Like you said, it’s a sabotage and control mechanism that some men use.”
This is called , and it’s correlated with emotional, physical and/or economic abuse. It needs to be called out for what it is, because there’s this idea about him just wanting the baby, but it is about a very specific kind of pressure and control that is very damaging.
oops. That should read
“…it’s called reproductive coercion.”
I was trying the HTML tags and goofed it up.
Youre right; we need to leave magical thinking alone. I can’t believe that some women would go ‘dutch’ when asked out by a guy—women need to start to think–even though we are educated in the business world, its different with romance or dating. I was reading Messence the other day, being curious, and it was talking about ‘how i loved being a black woman’ I think they know that we are an easy mark and have low self esteem, the problem is, other curious people read it too and our dirty laundry is aired worldwide. If other cultures started doing this, it would sound racist
Khadija, you wrote that we should pay attention to what is around us–I totally agree. Here’s the problem: The Black Community et al. does not want air their dirty laundry, because they don’t want to have to wash it.
About the accidentally-on-purpose pregnancies–I must sheepishly raise my hand on this one because I too am someone’s baby momma. I am married now to a non-black man and we have three children together. And you are spot on about how accidental pregnancies often happen with married people after they’ve had a few; that’s exactly what happened in our case with our fourth (OOW included).
I also would like to address the issue of shame (or the lack thereof) that is associated with “Magical Thinking” about sex and OOW pregnancy. I’m just going to come right out and say this: We need to feel SHAME about OOW pregnancies, because as a whole it is generally accepted and in some sad cases, advocated. Religious dogma aside, the shame should derived from condemning GENERATIONS of black children to a life incomplete. I believe it is a child’s inalienable RIGHT to have a decent, functioning and loving two-parent household.
“We need to feel SHAME about OOW pregnancies, because as a whole it is generally accepted and in some sad cases, advocated. “
But right now, the shame is only directed at the women and not the men. But if the women are more influenced by the men’s opinion, it’s not going to matter what the community says: only half the community is talking, and not the half that’s getting heard.
That’s why when the message has been “don’t do it because it’s shameful”, people don’t hear it. They might be defending themselves, or being shouted down by the men in their lives saying that it doesn’t matter.
When the message has been “look at what your peer women are getting. Are you getting that? Don’t you think you deserve it?” Or to the men “this isn’t manhood. Are you a real man or not?” The response has been different.
Shame works, and as you said, it should be shameful to give a child an incomplete life. But typically, the message hasn’t come out like that, which is unfortunate.
Interesting this post came up. I have a girlfriend who randomly sleeps with guys. She’ll hook up and have sex and one night stands as she sees fit. Yet she also wants to be in a serious relationship.
I on OTOH, can’t bring myself to do it. I’ve been celibate for some time. This is not to say that I do not crave sexual intimacy. But I cannot just sleep with any guy just b/c. if I feel I have a connection with someone and its going somewhere – maybe. I have yet to feel that connection with anyone. But IMO these days men just have it waaaay too easy. I just can’t picture myself being just another notch under their belt (I know that’s so cliché and corny but that’s how I feel). This is not to say that if I meet someone I connect with and WANT him (for no other sole reason of wanting him for my own purpose) that I wouldn’t. But at this rate, men have it just too easy. And its just too risky.
Anyway, my point is, I am being made to feel like a prude who if I “just have sex every once in awhile” would find that I would fee a lot less stressed etc. I did find myself at some point falling into that trap of listening to her and thinking “well maybe I should let loose a little”. But thank you for reiterating what my conscious has been saying all along. its simply too dangerous these days to just allow men to run up in you “just b/c” or because you feel it will make you less uptight or stressed. There are other things I can do to relieve any stress I have.
This g/f of mine even had the audacity to say that the women she knows who are less uptight and stressed are her friends who have sex every once in awhile. (mind you this is not sex with a b/f or someone they are in a relationship). Just random guys they meet and hook up with.
The g/f actually uses this as a measuring stick of her attractiveness. I often have to remind her that sex is VERRRY easy to come by for any woman. its not something that is hard to get – especially if you’re a woman.
I guess this explains why we are not as close as we once were. I am finding we are growing apart based on current values.
Darn it Khadija, I was just about to talk about the ‘cup and saucer’ and then I saw the warning at the bottom…just kidding.
Anyways, this is a very insightful post. Truth is for the most part sex is just seen as a physical release, not a spiritual or emotional act. Men and women are pretending that they don’t need each other and they don’t require sexual tenderness. Sexual tenderness will cover the gamut of protection, satisfaction and concern for your partner. Most of the sex that is happening these days is no different from what the beasts in the wild do, just hit it and quit it. Our sexuality is an extension of our spirituality and should be handled gently.
I made a conscious decision to be celibate so that I could understand why I was having sex. I now feel more beautiful, sexy, peaceful, centered and empowered being celibate than I ever did when I was sexually active. I am not saying anybody should follow me or that I have it right. I just did what was right for me. Each person need to do their own sexual balance sheet and make whatever changes are needed to ensure they have a healthy sexuality.
“I now feel more beautiful, sexy, peaceful, centered and empowered being celibate…”
Yes Jules, it is very empowering to make the decision to be celibate. Contrary to the message given to women during the woman’s movement and sexual revolution, that said, having sex like a man (casual sex) was a form of empowering ourselves(complete b.s.). A woman loses her power when she engages in sexual intercourse with a guy she has no emotional connection with. Once you have sex with a guy too soon he loses any interest in getting know you on a emotional level, so if you’re seeking a long term relationship that opportunity is often lost. You have basically played your hand (your very powerful woman card).
The hook up generation of women don’t seem to understand that what is empowering is, when you withhold sex, not when you give it away. As result, (as we have been witnessing in the AA community for years) women of other cultures are starting outpace men in education and earnings as well. Men have it so easy these days that they are starting to lose the incentive to achieve at the level they once did. We are basically on our way to ruin as a society.
“4) I was outdone to discover that there are large numbers of educated, financially savvy BW whose “dates” with BM consist of: picking the AA male up in their own car, driving the AA male to the outing, “going Dutch” and paying half of the dinner and entertainment tab, and then driving the AA male back to his home. With or without then having sex with this male at his home. [?????!] ”
Paying HALF the dinner tab? Khadija i kid you not. I am not even exaggerating this. I was a waitress for quite some time through college and even after college. i can tell you that 8 out of 10 times the Black woman is paying for the WHHHOLE dinner tab. Now I am not saying at times women should not fit the dinner bill on occassion with their significant others. But most men take pride in taking a woman out to dinner and paying the tab. In fact most real men won’t even HEAR of a woman trying to pay the dinner tab.
However, it was such a common occurence with BW/BM couples that one White waitress came right out and asked me (lol) if it was a cultural thing for Black women to pay the dinner tab. She said “i just never see the guy paying so I am wondering if it a cultural thing for the woman to always pay” LOL. i was just speechless. It was so sad she had to ask that yet what could I say? If she asked ME that question what was the perception of the other servers who saw this. i know she saw exactly what i and others saw – BW always paying the tab at dinner.
i chalked that up to the BW trying to force a kind of date like setting in which the BM was not really interested and felt like “if we go to dinner then you need to pay”. IOW’s its not something the BM wanted to do, but the BW out of sheer desperation to feel like she wants to be on a date offered to pay. How sad is this.
its like BW have just lost any desire to….. I can’t even put into words what these kinds of things represent….
**Warning: Another Long Reply, LOL!**
Christelyn,
You said, “Here’s the problem: The Black Community et al. does not want air their dirty laundry, because they don’t want to have to wash it.”
I agree. However, I’m amazed that folks take this posture as if they really think they’re fooling outsiders about what we’re collectively doing. As if non-Blacks are blind to the mass AA dirty laundry that’s blowing in the wind down the streets like tumbleweeds. These self-appointed protectors of the BC’s reputation are kidding themselves.
You said, “About the accidentally-on-purpose pregnancies–I must sheepishly raise my hand on this one because I too am someone’s baby momma. I am married now to a non-black man and we have three children together. And you are spot on about how accidental pregnancies often happen with married people after they’ve had a few; that’s exactly what happened in our case with our fourth (OOW included).”
Well, things happen. My issue is that one situation (the married one) has a safety net already built into it to handle genuine surprises; and the other situation (the oow one) is NOT built to handle extra stresses. Which is what you discuss in your next point when you said, “I’m just going to come right out and say this: We need to feel SHAME about OOW pregnancies, because as a whole it is generally accepted and in some sad cases, advocated. Religious dogma aside, the shame should derived from condemning GENERATIONS of black children to a life incomplete. I believe it is a child’s inalienable RIGHT to have a decent, functioning and loving two-parent household.”
ITA. And what you’ve raised is why I take issue with oow—the damage it does to the children involved. In general, my issues with various topics are all about the practical consequences of certain behaviors. I’m not very interested in dogma. I’m also not in—and I’m not trying to be in—other people’s beds and bedrooms. All I care about is my own bed.
Just like other sexually active women, I could have had an oow pregnancy. There is always some margin for error. However, (1) I’ve never left things of that level of importance up to fate, and (2) I’ve always thought situations through and created “insurance” for myself. I always had arrangements lined up to get an abortion if it had ever come down to that. [Or as I called it in college, the "Hoover-Fetus-Remover."] Even though there is a margin for error, the overall pattern is that the women and girls who are totally serious about preventing pregnancies tend to NOT get pregnant.
Other folks are dragging me (and other personally responsible AAs) into their personal lives and choices by their refusal to handle their own business. Their oow childbearing is creating problems for the rest of us. Most of the vicious, violent criminals running loose in Black residential areas are the products of oow childbearing and the resulting single parenting. Many of the single baby mamas try to enlist, guilt-trip, and finally draft other BW into doing the things that the baby daddy should be doing for their offspring.
This mass oow and single (fatherless) parenting is what has KILLED the AA collective. With plenty of assistance from often hypocritical, and almost always totally out-of-touch-with-reality religious believers among us.
Even though I’m a religious believer (a self-proclaimed “progressive” Muslim, LOL!), I’m extremely angry with most of the religious “holy talkers” among our people.
I’m extremely angry with the hypocritical Mooz-lim holy talkers who have made a sick joke out of marriage, and created the image of Muslim Black women as “holy whores” in the eyes of at least one area’s welfare agency (as mentioned in the blog post I linked to above). And then you have the foolish AA Christian women who beat other BW—and only other BW; BM are never held to any of these holy regulations—over the head with totally impractical holy talk slogans.
Let me vent for a moment, and repeat something I said at the earlier blog. I often think about the dead church lady acquaintance I’m about to mention:
Let me emphasize that I’m NOT saying that sexual experiences are the be-all and end-all to life. I also HATE the reverse dogma of modern porn culture among AAs—the false notion that a life without sexual activity is not worth living.
I think it’s perfectly fine for people to be celibate. I’ve been celibate during different periods of life. Again, my issue is always about practical consequences. Not dogma. My issue is that AA women are discouraged from making dogma-free, fully INFORMED choices about their sexuality.
It’s one thing to knowingly take the risks of the possible negative fallout from sexual activity (pregnancy, stds, yucky emotional feelings, and so on). It’s a similar thing to knowingly taking the risks associated with forever refraining from unmarried sex—the risk of never experiencing sex. [The holy talkers never mention this angle when preaching at AA women.]
What’s wrong is that so many AA women allow themselves to be pressured into making various choices that create consequences they aren’t prepared to deal with.
*************************************************
I’m also extremely angry with the “ruined BW” who have lowered themselves and want to see other BW lower themselves and their standards. Which brings me to Neecy’s comment.
Neecy,
Hang on to your standards!! Like so many other “fallen women,” this so-called “friend” of yours wants to see you brought low. Like her. Unfortunately, broken AA women can’t stand to see another BW with her standards intact. When other BW hang onto their standards, it puts an unflattering spotlight on what these “semen dumpster” women are doing.
Respectfully, I would suggest that you not discuss your personal life (especially anything related to men) with this so-called friend. She’ll continue to deliberately give you bad advice.
Expect Success!
“Hang on to your standards!! Like so many other “fallen women,” this so-called “friend” of yours wants to see you brought low. Like her. ”
Exactly. And ironically this girl is still unhappy. So in all her efforts to tell me how I just need to hook up with some random guys every now and then, she is still a very unhappy person.
None of these guys she has continuous sexual relationships with are moving her to the next step/level. So…..
Neecy, your friend may call you a prude, but I think she is missing the “nt” from that word. You are prudent and that’s a good thing.
Thank you! Tha’ts why its so important for likeminded women to encourage each other!!! i can’t lie at times its hard, but I know what i am doing and that’s what’s best for me at this time.,
Neecy,
You said, “Paying HALF the dinner tab? Khadija i kid you not. I am not even exaggerating this. I was a waitress for quite some time through college and even after college. i can tell you that 8 out of 10 times the Black woman is paying for the WHOLE dinner tab.
. . . However, it was such a common occurence with BW/BM couples that one White waitress came right out and asked me (lol) if it was a cultural thing for Black women to pay the dinner tab. She said “i just never see the guy paying so I am wondering if it a cultural thing for the woman to always pay” LOL. i was just speechless. It was so sad she had to ask that yet what could I say? If she asked ME that question what was the perception of the other servers who saw this. i know she saw exactly what i and others saw – BW always paying the tab at dinner.”
Lord, God, have mercy . . . {shaking my head in disgust}
You said, “i chalked that up to the BW trying to force a kind of date like setting in which the BM was not really interested and felt like “if we go to dinner then you need to pay”.”
{twitch} I’ve heard of idiotic (BROKEN) AA women doing that sort of thing to “prove” that they’re not so-called golddiggers. {shudder}
Expect Success!
Note that there are also males who want to get women “caught up.” The typical scenario with this is the male who isn’t going anywhere productive in his life and wants to make sure the woman or girl doesn’t go anywhere either. This, or the male wants to have a permanent “anchor” connecting him to a particular, usually more ambitious woman.
This. Right. Here. I had a “whoosa” moment when I read this last night.
Several years ago this exact same scenario resulted in my having my youngest of two sons. The social consequences were eye opening and devastating. People that once helped me out were no longer helping me or subtly made it known that they could no longer associate with me or help me get things done when they found out the extent of the circumstances surrounding my youngest son’s birth. Socially I was in the middle to upper middle class. I was not living in the “black community”.
Th first two years after I gave birth were some of the most difficult- emotionally, socially and financially with no (voluntary) help whatsoever from the father. It was not until I decided to flee that community (to the tune of 5,000 miles) that I was able to start working on the “whys”.
This stunned everyone. Including the father of my youngest, who thought that I would continue to stay and deal with the drama aftermath and/or give him “another chance” to make things right. No way. I paid too high of a price those first two years, while he maintained everything he had. I was tired of struggling.
I moved from a very culturally diverse community to a predominately white, rural community. However, I’m seeing the same scenario continuously played out here between BM/WW- where there are many WW with their kids and no BM around.
It seems that BM are not trying to marry anyone.
Excellent post Khadija.This is necessary reading for many black women and girls.I’m passing this along to my siblings.
Khadija I have several nurses in my family and a few doctors.They all have seen people they knew from years ago come into their various hospitals getting treatment for aids.The sad part is several of my relatives have had the people who have been infected by their patients come to their house asking all kinds of questions.My relatives had grown up with the individual at the hospital and the person knocking on their door asking questions about their patient for themselves or their poor daughters and legally they can say nor hint at nothing.My aunt worked at our county jail years ago and she could tell from giving physicals that alot of those men are sexing other men.It’s sad Khadija but I thank God I have these people in my family.I have never done anything sexually risky because I heard horror stories from my grandma growing up.I only wish everybody else had that.I feel like i’ve been in a scared straight program most of my life in regards to sex.I have felt low, been sad, and have gotten attention from men while I felt that way but I never gave it up because I knew I could lose my life and all respect.At this point I feel it is up to me to carry the torch for my siblings and let them know about all the nasty diseases they could get if they had sex unprotected.I try to tell them as often as possible as I was told all these things on a daily basis as a kid.I have even been afraid to have unprotected sex with the man i’m gonna marry someday.My nurse relatives tell me to get tested with my hubby often if I get married,especially if he travels long distances for work.
Khadija,
I was just thinking about the stories “from the trenches” that I have heard from one of the young women I know who is still in the dating world.
There doesn’t even have to be any sex going on for the magical thinking to take place, and a man doesn’t have to be overly trifling in order to get away with this kind of garbage.
Case in point.
This young bw met a young bm of the “bmw status-filled job” type; she was quite impressed–professional worlds overlap in ways they can relate to each other well. They go out a few times then he disappears. Six months later, he is all eager to see her and pissed that she is busy with other things. She then goes out with him again and he tells her, I’d really like to see you, but I’m also seeing other women.
I read her the riot act; what in the world is she thinking to let this character into her life?????
But this tells you how these “excellent portfolio types” can get away with this. He does the nice dating things which make her think she is being courted, while he does whatever he does with his other women. This doesn’t bother her. But he is not taking things further, it is like they are just friends. Yet, he was surprised that she would not sleep with him.
As you once said, your “old folks” explained, give an n**** 90 days. Well 90 days have come and gone, and last I heard…
He is more like a friend in my mind, but he takes her out on what seems like dates yet is supportive of her like a boyfriend. He takes her to places where she would be introduced to his friends, giving the impression that she is someone he is dating, meaning that the other men there (who might be better dates) might not talk to her because of him.
Perhaps the other women he is with would not make the type of good impression she does among his friends and colleagues. She thinks things might be developing to the point that she will be the girlfriend, and although she doesn’t seem to be holding her breath, she is still hopeful. He holds all the cards.
Is it no wonder she is confused?
Now there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of the benefits he offers, but she was not being savvy in this.
She regularly calls him, which lets him know he has her, giving him all the power, even though she says she is making efforts to meet other men.
In dealing with a man like that, it is important never to reach out in that way, calling, texting and so forth.
Some of her other friends are in similar situations. These young black women believe this is what it takes to be with a bm. Isn’t that sad????
But they are putting up with worse; one is having sex, and doesn’t seem to mind that he is with other women as well. Another seems to think that this man will eventually marry her!
So why is she doing this, when she is pretty enough, accomplished enough and able to meet any high quality man on an equal field?
She is the type that the bm ask out when they meet her, so she can guarantee that when she is out socially that at least one of the bm there would be interested. She has said in the past that bm are the ones she notices. Yet, she believes, however, that in mixed-race or all-white, etc., groups, she would not experience the same….
Yet, is she doing all she could to get out there and mingle in other groups? Not as much as she has spent her time in all-black groups, doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting something different…
Ay!!!!
if I may Pioneervaleywoman,
I’m just going to be really upfront here. Frankly, BW like your friends deserve their fate. At what point can we just call a spade a spade? too many BW (like your buddies who keep making excuses for why they allow themselves to be used by BM) are just STUPID for lack of a better word. I really don’t know what else to call it. GROWN EDUCATED women making these kinds of decisions????? Seriously what else is it. I am so over trying to act like its always the men who are the problem in these instances. I am also sick of coddling foolish BW who know better.
Grown professional Black women like your friends and others that we all know at some point choose to ignore the logical side of their brain that says “this ish is not right nor is it healthy” just are going to learn when its way too late. They ignore the logical sides of these situations for other benefits they may be receiving. if a grown man tells a grown woman up front she isn’t the only one the ONUS is NO LONGER ON HIM, its the woman who has to choose if she is okay with where she stands with this man. And so what if he makes her is g/f then his wife? Does she think a man like that will be faithful?
As you said, your friend is SATISFIED with the material things he does for her. Period. So she is willing to stick around and be some chick on the side he has and uses for his own good. No wonder Bm are the way they are. They are looking at the sea of fool of BW out there they have wrapped around their finger.
And the fact she isn’t having sex with him doesn’t mean anything. Big whoop! She’s still being used and strung along. Do you think a man who sees a woman as desperate as these BW out there who are willing to man share just to have a man will respect her? A decent woman would have cut the line when he told her he is seeing other people.
We need to start calling a spade a spade. too many BW like your friends expect people to feel for them etc. They make these choices to be with these kinds of BM b/c frankly they are DESPERATE. and then want everyone to blame the Bm in these cases. I’m so over it.
Its time for smart BW and likeminded BW to stop breastfeeding these so called friends of ours when we know frankly they are just being flat out stupid.
Of course you don’t have to say this directly to them. But for the g/f’s or should I say acquaintances of mine who used to do all that nonsense, when they start talking about their situations I just sit and listen and that’s it. I don’t offer any advice b/c there is none to offer. they know what to do, instead they want you to coddle them and tell them a bunch of BS to make them feel good about their stupidity. And if you dare tell them what they should do, they look at you like you are “hating”. Pssh!
I simply shrug and tell them that we all have choices.
The only BW I will be willing to concede and give the benefit of the doubt are YOUNG inexperienced Black girls. They need to get the best advice possible b/c they are young and need guidance.
Grown, educated Black women who know better get what they deserve.
I agree with Neecy, although as a late bloomer myself, I might cut some slack for adult women who have only recently begun dating.
But even with that said, I’ve never understood other women who are still interested in being with a man they know is unfaithful. I suppose it’s the thrill of expecting that one day he’ll realize how special and worthy they are of being his girlfriend or wife and then they’ll “win”.
I think some of this behavior is based on the good-girl/bad-girl dynamic.
The good-girl dynamic: good-girls don’t PLAN to have sex; sex just HAPPENS. If a good-girl gets pregnant (or STD/AIDS) then it’s not her fault, the good-girl declares herself to be a victim of: the guy because he refused to use/didn’t have protection; the hand of fate because she didn’t plan on having sex that night; or the pharmaceutical industry because she tried to take the Pill, but it made sick/fat/crazy. In her mind she retains the good-girl status and is not to blame, she is instead a victim deserving of pity/government&family assistance/free babysitting services.
The bad-girl dynamic: bad-girls have sex on purpose. They PLAN to have sex. They take birth control and buy their own condoms. They get tested and require their perspective partners get tested. They share the test results and require the same from their perspective partners. They are knowledgeable about their bodies and their sexuality (not homo/hetero, but what they like, what feels good to them). Bad-girls ENJOY sex.
Sadly the majority of bw want to perpetrate the good-girl image, even if it comes at the expense of their health/life or the diminished lives of their children.
To my mind an informed/empowered woman is knowledgeable about and comfortable with her sexuality. This knowledge does not come from what someone else tells her (family, church, partner), rather in comes from intense and honest reflection about who she is and who she wants to be.
It may mean taking a look at her family history and consciously deciding not to repeat the behaviors and actions in her own family. It may mean removing herself from her current (toxic) environment. It definitely means assessing herself, her relationship (if partnered), and what she really wants from an intimate (and sexual) relationship (if she has decided a relationship is want she wants).
Peace
This post is deserving of a podcast-FOR REAL!!!!! The consequences of indiscriminate sexual relations have helped to destroy to many AA women’s lives. It seems that although teens have been sexually active for years, back in the day women used to at least carefully vet the guy she was going to “do it” (using high school terminology) with. There seemed to be some sort of connection between the partners and at least a nominal level of commitment ie. the two partners were “going steady” etc. and indeed women didn’t allow themselves to be treated as sperm dumping grounds, nor did they generally allow random men to test-drive their vaginas. There was also a rudimentary level of reciprocity involved in that it was understood that a guy would have to initiate and plan a date, pay for said date, etc. Now I see women involved with men who can’t/won’t even buy them a can of Coke let alone handle the $$ responsibilities of raising a child from the unplanned-on purpose pregnancy. And I see women signing up to bed these men when they know that they have absolutely no ability to “do” anything for them. These are the women who pick up their dates in their cars, who pick up the tab, etc. One AA woman in my area picked up her date, took him out to eat and while she was in the restroom, he attempted to steal her car!!!
I agree that women nowadays don’t even know what it means to be taken out on a date.
You said…TOO MANY AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN MAKE BAD CHOICES AND THEN PRETEND THAT THEY DIDN’T HAVE A CHOICE…I call this playing crazy!
You said many AA women have magical thinking regarding unplanned-on purpose pregnancies. I totally agree. Back in the 80′s and 90′s there weren’t as many options to avoid an unplanned pregnancy. Now women have no excuse. I see the phenomenon of women having children out of wedlock as an attempt to be validated.
On the myth of black male’s magical penis— I have two new associates, bw. In getting to know one another we’ve discussed our positions on dating and men. I am one who dates worldwide, and have for about 15 years. I was married early on to a bm, dated several, but the bulk of my adult dating life has been with non-black men. So inevitably the women question how I can be with non-black men because the sex can’t be as good and the penis size cannot be as large.
I first stress that I am not a size queen, just to clarify that men of any race don’t get capture me by dangling that carrot in my face, then explain that there is no truth to the myth. Some bm are large, some are small, some non-black men are large…I know this sounds so elementary and I felt so 1892 for having that conversation with 2 grown, professional bw. I mean they’ve even been to Europe for goodness sake! LOL One lived there over a decade! I’ve been thru this with women before, but again, the fact that I was doing it in 2010 and that these were the best reasons they could come up with.
On the sex being as good with non-black men, I had to question what was meant by “good”. They tossed out some words like “strong” and “hard”. I had to stop there, and I haven’t seen these women since. In this chat I did share my experiences of gentle loving, attentive loving, passionate loving, being treated like a lady, as in courted, respected, cherished, gosh in actually being taken out on an old-fashioned date by a gentleman…and non of that was enough to convince them that non-black men were viable options for dating and ultimately partnering with sexually. This is all made more ridiculous by the fact that we reside in a city famed for a small black population, bm with a clear preference for non-black women, and a ton of bm/wf couples/marrieds, yet these women still…Ok I can only pass on reading materials and blogs to them from now on. I cry for the young girls who have no examples of gentle loving, but these women are in their 40s! I want to say more but I guess it’s already been said by the other ladies.
Thank you for this blog Khadija.
This myth really, really needs to die…seriously. Being a certain point in size it’s about technique. “Strong” and “Hard” may indeed be techniques of a sort, however the task at hand is not demolition work. And they’re 40??!!! They should know better at this point, that’s the age at which if you haven’t gotten it together you’re probably not going to ever get it together.
Jules,
Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it.
_________________________________________________
RColeman,
Oh yeah, there are significant numbers of AA men who are “accidentally on purpose” impregnating women whose lives they want to damage and/or control. This phenomenon just doesn’t get a lot airplay.
You said, “I moved from a very culturally diverse community to a predominately white, rural community. However, I’m seeing the same scenario continuously played out here between BM/WW- where there are many WW with their kids and no BM around.
It seems that BM are not trying to marry anyone.”
Well, as I’ve mentioned before, in the past I’ve done a few rotations in my jurisdiction’s child welfare courtrooms. I’m sure that everybody in the audience already knows that a disproportionate, HUGE percentage of the abused and neglected children in such courts are Black children.
Well, when you work in those courtrooms, you see that it’s more accurate to describe these children as AA men’s children—regardless of the mother’s race. The lion’s share of the neglected and abused children swept up by child welfare in the Chicago area are Black men’s children. The mothers of these neglected and abused BM’s children come in all races.
AA males don’t change their commonly-observed paternal behavior profiles just because they’re hooked up with non-Black women.
And here’s my point with all of that:
RColeman, it does NOT matter what AA males are or aren’t doing. It doesn’t matter if AA men are getting married or not. It doesn’t matter if AA men refuse to father their offspring.
It doesn’t matter because there’s NO inherent connection between AA men and women. AA men cut those past ties by their mass abandonment of BW and Black children. It’s time for AA women to finally catch the hint, and read the memo about that. AA women don’t have to be involved with AA males. AA women aren’t chained to AA men unless we want to be chained to them.
AA women are just as free as BM are to wander off away from the now-dead AA community, and build good lives elsewhere. And with other people. [We're actually more free in many ways because: (1) we have the "woman card" that we can play, and (2) we're more functional.]
I don’t care what AA men are doing because whatever they’re doing (or not doing) has no significant impact on my life. I disconnected from all non-contributing AA males once I got the memo. I only take interest in the people who ARE contributing things of value to my life. I’ve disconnected from the non-contributing rest. Emotionally, and otherwise. That’s why I don’t get uptight about what random BM are thinking, saying, or doing.
I suspect that the reason why there’s a note of chagrin in your comment (“It seems that BM are not trying to marry anyone”) is because you might still be emotionally invested in what BM are doing or not doing. I respectfully suggest that you totally (emotionally) disconnect from any and all BM who aren’t contributing something of value to your life.
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TruthP.,
Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it. You said, “I feel like i’ve been in a scared straight program most of my life in regards to sex.”
I know that feeling. Watching droves of gay men drop dead in the 80s and 90s made a serious impression on me.
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PioneerValleyWoman,
The young BW that you’re describing is a fool. All she’s doing is allowing this BM she’s going out with to block her access to other, viable men. As you said, “He takes her to places where she would be introduced to his friends, giving the impression that she is someone he is dating, meaning that the other men there (who might be better dates) might not talk to her because of him.”
You said, “As you once said, your “old folks” explained, give an n**** 90 days. Well 90 days have come and gone, and last I heard…”
For the readers who weren’t around when I first mentioned this at the previous blog:
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Neecy,
You said, “Its time for smart BW and likeminded BW to stop breastfeeding these so called friends of ours when we know frankly they are just being flat out stupid.”
{chuckling at the “breastfeeding” comment} ITA!
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SouthlandDiva,
You said, “I think some of this behavior is based on the good-girl/bad-girl dynamic. The good-girl dynamic: good-girls don’t PLAN to have sex; sex just HAPPENS. If a good-girl gets pregnant (or STD/AIDS) then it’s not her fault, the good-girl declares herself to be a victim . . .”
I agree. I saw this dynamic with some BF acquaintances I had in college. My take on that sort of silly thinking is that anybody who feels like that is not an adult, is not ready to be sexually active, and therefore should not be sexually active. The stakes are just too high—life and death—for that sort of nonsense.
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KarenR.,
ITA with your observations. The dynamics have totally changed—to the detriment of (especially younger) AA women and girls. Back in the day, guys would try to pressure their girlfriends into having sex. The real dates and the relationship (such as it was) came FIRST. The pressure applied to young women for sex came after the guy had invested that time and energy into wooing the young woman.
With this modern hook-up culture, young women give up the sex FIRST in hopes of being asked out on real dates!!! By doing so, these young women have thrown away ALL of their leverage. After doing this, all that’s left for them is increasing levels of degradation. {shaking my head}
I’ve said this before:
One of the unspoken dangers for many AA women when it comes to dating non-Black men is that they have NO sense of what a normal man’s behavior should look like. Most AA women are used to AA male savages. This makes any man who even has a veneer of manners look like a saint. This makes it harder for such AA women to screen and vet non-Black men. Their standards and expectations are just set too low based upon their experiences in the all-Black hook-up-hell dimension.
Those of us who know better need to groom the younger AA girls and women in our orbit to bypass the radioactive, all-Black dating scene. And groom them to successfully navigate healthier, non-Black settings.
At its core, this is a supply/demand problem. There are simply numerically too many desperate AA women interacting with an ever-shrinking pool of increasingly spoiled, and abusive AA men.
I believe that all of these problems, numerical imbalances, and resulting injustices within the all-Black dating pool will naturally sort themselves out when more BW remove themselves from this toxic all-Black pool. And start expanding their horizons to date and marry quality non-Black men.
You said, “Back in the 80’s and 90’s there weren’t as many options to avoid an unplanned pregnancy. Now women have no excuse.”
ITA.
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Nina,
You’re welcome!
Your comment is the only one that I’m going to publish that mentions the “BM’s reputed magical genitals” myth. Some notions are just too stupid, and I hate to linger on such things. The fact that grown women would actually say something as stupid as that—out loud—shows how deeply invested they are in Fantasy Island.
You said, “In this chat I did share my experiences of gentle loving, attentive loving, passionate loving, being treated like a lady, as in courted, respected, cherished, gosh in actually being taken out on an old-fashioned date by a gentleman…and non of that was enough to convince them that non-black men were viable options for dating and ultimately partnering with sexually. This is all made more ridiculous by the fact that we reside in a city famed for a small black population, bm with a clear preference for non-black women, and a ton of bm/wf couples/marrieds, yet these women still…Ok I can only pass on reading materials and blogs to them from now on.”
Indeed . . . it’s best to let the dead bury the dead.
Expect Success!
Thank you Kahdija for your analysis and advise. I have been actively working on divesting emotionally to those that contribute nothing to my life. It’s been a long hard road un-learning 40 years of conditioning. I am making great progress though!
RColeman,
You’re welcome! And I do understand that disconnecting is a process. I went through all the Kubler-Ross grief stages after I finally realized that:
(1) The AA community is dead and will never be resurrected.
(2) The masses of AA men “threw the deuce,” said “Peace Out!” and walked away from that whole notion of assuming any responsibility for “the Black community” over 45 years ago (as soon as the walls of segregation came down).
At the first opportunity, BM freely wander off to share their resources with non-Black women, non-Black people and non-Black places. Said resources were usually gained with the active support of the Black women in these men’s immediate families, churches, neighborhoods and so on. [All the slogans exhorting BW to "save endangered BM," and so on.]
Meanwhile, most AA women are focused on the already-dead AA community and “nuthin’ but a BM”—to their detriment.
BM only talk that “Black community” talk to keep AA women as a fall-back safety net to be used when BM get into trouble with Whites. [See Prof. Skip Gates, OJ Simpson, Van Jones, and so on.]
(3) The cultural pathologies that AAs have embraced over the past 45 years (oow, single parenting, lack of respect for education) are now so deeply entrenched within the AA collective that it’s inevitable that most AAs will form a permanent underclass in the US.
It took about 18 months for me to reach a stage of peaceful acceptance of the above realities. So, I do understand that it’s a process. I will note that letting go of all my previous, now-obsolete beliefs about the Black community, etc. was an extremely liberating experience once I completed that process.
A great burden was lifted from my shoulders once I realized that—just like BM—I’m totally FREE to do whatever works best for me. Without factoring in how what I want impacts the now-dead AA collective. I realized that there are so many survivor’s-guilt-inducing slogans that are directed ONLY at AA women: Each one, teach one . . . giving back . . . and so on.
AA women don’t have to listen to any of that noise that targets us ALONE (while BM aren’t hassled about doing whatever works for them as individuals). Unencumbered personal freedom is a very good thing!
Expect Success!
Khadija,
At the first opportunity, BM freely wander off to share their resources with non-Black women, non-Black people and non-Black places. Said resources were usually gained with the active support of the Black women in these men’s immediate families, churches, neighborhoods and so on.
This is so true. I never used to notice this pattern before I began reading the BWE blogs. Just this morning at the gym I saw some report on the ex-NFL star Kermit Alexander and how his mother whom he spoke so glowingly about, sister, and nephews were all murdered by gang members at their house in Watts in 1984. Mr. Alexander spoke about how he raised to be involved in the community and help people and how when he saw a promising young athlete who was also combative and violent, he thought about mentoring him and helping him straighten up but instead did nothing. Some years later, this same boy would gun down his family members.
Mr. Alexander spoke about feeling so responsible for his mother’s death but his regret stemmed from not changing the life of this murderous thug rather than failing to help get his beloved mother out of neighborhood long-known to be dangerous. Not surprisingly, he had a white wife who got to live the comfortable and safe life he apparently never thought about providing for his mother.
Thanks again for connecting the dots for BW!
My God.
This story really horrified me. It really brings home Khadija’s point that wasting any time to assist AA boys more often than not provides no return on your investment. Imagine all the time spent on reaching out to Mr. Alexander and cultivating his abilities. While this NFL star lives the good life with his white wife, his family is dead.
The fact that he seems to have empathy for the DBRBM monster that killed his entire family leaves me stunned. He is not sad that he didn’t help his mother, he is only sad that he didn’t help another brotha out.
Many times when I read these BWE blogs, I am sometimes uncomfortable with some of the things said and I think to myself “It can’t possibly be that bad!” Then I read a story like this. It gives me such a sense of sadness. But I will not grieve too long, I will focus on “getting mine” and working to live well. I want to also thank BWE bloggers for connecting the dots for us.
Neecy:
Of course you don’t have to say this directly to them. But for the g/f’s or should I say acquaintances of mine who used to do all that nonsense, when they start talking about their situations I just sit and listen and that’s it. I don’t offer any advice b/c there is none to offer. they know what to do, instead they want you to coddle them and tell them a bunch of BS to make them feel good about their stupidity. And if you dare tell them what they should do, they look at you like you are “hating”. Pssh!
My reply:
I hear you! That has pretty much been my response. I told her from the start, what in the world was she thinking in letting this man into her life, but she didn’t want to hear it, saying that he was courting her. So when she talks about it now, I just listen. She knows what is going on, I hear her talk through her “dilemma”, so I’m just watching and and listening.
Khadija:
The young BW that you’re describing is a fool. All she’s doing is allowing this BM she’s going out with to block her access to other, viable men.
My reply:
Of course she is! I’m so glad you repeated the whole of the “90 days” advice.
In the spirit of the suggestions made by Neecy and Khadija that older women who know better need to inform the younger women out there, here are a few more words.
In reading her the riot act, I had another primary criticism beyond the point that she should not have anything to do with him once he said she was not the only one. The point that he stopped calling her after they dated for a few weeks only to reappear several months later was beyond ridiculous.
When a man stops calling, he does so because he has decided he has something better to do and other people to do it with! No matter how busy he says he might be, with work or whatever else, no man who is really interested in a woman will stop calling her. He will make sure she hears from him; he will make the time to see her!
No woman who respects herself would let in some character who just disappeared on her, because she knows he is just trying to get her onto some kind of roster.
But as you both have said, it has become more and more common for women to accept bad treatment of this sort and of other sorts–chasing men who don’t want them and who make it clear they don’t. Other examples include calling and trying to befriend old boyfriends who break up with them or trying to recycle old boyfriends whom they broke up with.
Since the “reply” feature can cause comments to get buried, here’s a repeat of my reply to RColeman’s 2nd comment:
RColeman,
You’re welcome! And I do understand that disconnecting is a process. I went through all the Kubler-Ross grief stages after I finally realized that:
(1) The AA community is dead and will never be resurrected.
(2) The masses of AA men “threw the deuce,” said “Peace Out!” and walked away from that whole notion of assuming any responsibility for “the Black community” over 45 years ago (as soon as the walls of segregation came down).
At the first opportunity, BM freely wander off to share their resources with non-Black women, non-Black people and non-Black places. Said resources were usually gained with the active support of the Black women in these men’s immediate families, churches, neighborhoods and so on. [All the slogans exhorting BW to "save endangered BM," and so on.]
Meanwhile, most AA women are focused on the already-dead AA community and “nuthin’ but a BM”—to their detriment.
BM only talk that “Black community” talk to keep AA women as a fall-back safety net to be used when BM get into trouble with Whites. [See Prof. Skip Gates, OJ Simpson, Van Jones, and so on.]
(3) The cultural pathologies that AAs have embraced over the past 45 years (oow, single parenting, lack of respect for education) are now so deeply entrenched within the AA collective that it’s inevitable that most AAs will form a permanent underclass in the US.
It took about 18 months for me to reach a stage of peaceful acceptance of the above realities. So, I do understand that it’s a process. I will note that letting go of all my previous, now-obsolete beliefs about the Black community, etc. was an extremely liberating experience once I completed that process.
A great burden was lifted from my shoulders once I realized that—just like BM—I’m totally FREE to do whatever works best for me. Without factoring in how what I want impacts the now-dead AA collective. I realized that there are so many survivor’s-guilt-inducing slogans that are directed ONLY at AA women: Each one, teach one . . . giving back . . . and so on.
AA women don’t have to listen to any of that noise that targets us ALONE (while BM aren’t hassled about doing whatever works for them as individuals). Unencumbered personal freedom is a very good thing!
Expect Success!
YMB,
When I say “mature virgin,” I’m thinking of somebody who’s 30+ years old. *smile*
Expect Success!
I’m just glad about this discussion because right now in my offline life, I’ve had a “friend” try to pressure me to date one of her friends (a half-Black man who is not… up to standards and she’s been trying to get me to date him since September 2009. She’s not a BW btw.) and I have been feeling lonely. After reading this, my resolve was strengthened and I’ve told her again to stop trying to set me up with him and that since she keeps insisting, I doubt that we’ll be getting together and going out again.
Thanks everyone, I needed to read this. And I bet there are other BW like me who needed to read this too.
KM,
You’re welcome! Hang on to your standards!
Never, never . . . NEVER let somebody pressure you into participating in something that you already have a bad feeling about! Listen to that bad feeling—it’s trying to tell you to leave whatever it is alone!
No matter what “it” is. It can be a guy that gives you a bad feeling whenever you think about interacting with him. It can be a sexual practice that you don’t want to participate in.
WHATEVER it is, listen to that bad feeling. I guarantee . . . if you given in to that sort of pressure, you’ll feel something even worse than that mildly bad feeling . . . oh, for example, something like lonely PLUS an even worse bad feeling about having participated in whatever it was . . .
Expect Success!
**Let me clarify my earlier (angry camper) statements about the AA church/mosque and “holy talker” believers**
I’m not ragging on the church or mosque in general. I’m harshly criticizing the totally dysfunctional AA church and mosque. The AA church and mosque is a life-crippling detriment to BW’s lives. We need to FLEE such places and attend non-Black houses of worship.
Another writer (dating advice columnist Deborrah Cooper) recently gave a blunt analysis of how the AA church destroys many BW’s lives. See her post How Black Churches Keep African American Women Single And Lonely.
I can better tolerate the “holy talk” from non-Black believers because their houses of worship tend to have structures in place to support their holy talk. Unlike the AA church, non-Black churches have a pool of viable, single, marriage-minded men available for marriage. And singles ministries to support wholesome courtships and future marriages among their members.
The non-Black mosques are based on immigrant Muslims’ pre-existing ethnic and clan social structures that enforce a minimum standard of legitimate marital behavior among their members.
Non-Black churches and mosques don’t beat their women members over the head with holy talk without ALSO providing some kind of structure that actually supports living according to the holy talk.
Expect Success!
Thanks for this great post and the commentary has been on point. I don’t have anything to add beyond what others have stated, except to say how the religiosity/good girl/being an example for the race indoctrination can really trip up a lot of younger black women. And perhaps thinking they can act like the characters on Sex & the City or similar.
The attraction of, selection of and vetting of men is what many women are missing in today’s society across the board but obviously the consequences are far more severe for black women. Yet the “experts” continue to give misinformation.
I just had a conversation with someone about how poverty is the root cause of the large number of HIV/AIDS outbreak amongst the black population. They initiated it. It’s the same obfuscation that claims it’s all due to racism. As if the lack of knowledge, willful ignorance and personal choices have no impact whatsoever.
By having these conversation it only reiterates the wide berth between “us” and “them”, those of us who are actively engaged in offering vital information and reordered thinking…and those who are not.
As someone who writes romances that tend to be erotic I can tell you about this issue first-hand. Don’t get me wrong, erotica is not to everyone’s taste and I respect that. However I found it fascinating when a reader wrote me to say that “The character talked about her sexual arousal and female body parts too much. That’s nasty.” The terminology struck me as odd. Female sexual arousal is considered “nasty?” Keep in mind that in my books generally explore both the male and female point of view. Usually the male characters are much more graphic about their sexual response as men in general tend to be more blunt about such matters. It’s interesting that she didn’t find the male sexual arousal “nasty,” but the woman’s is.
It reminded me of conversations I used to have with young girls about sex and sexuality. They liked talk and brag about how many partners they’d had and the various tricks they could do. Interestingly enough I could shut the conversation down with a quickness by asking them about their pleasure. What exactly were they getting out of this? After all a monkey can perform tricks. They bragged about being “bust it babes,” but when I asked about the male performing similar tricks for them they would flip out at the notion and yell “Gross.” And when I asked about orgasms they all exclaimed almost in one voice, “That’s nasty!” Or they’d ask about it using a street term and then say that’s something dudes do.
Keep in mind these were teenaged girls and frankly I’m not surprised at their disgust at female sexual arousal, but what could possibly explain similar statements coming from grown women? I think we in the so-called black community have taken the Madonna/Whore conundrum to whole new heights.
Oh, and about these accidentally/on purpose pregnancies. I also think a lot of men are impregnating successful women so that they’ll have a meal ticket for life. When I was still working I can’t tell you how many cases I had that involved a young woman working/going to school who left their newborn at home in “daddy day care.” Of course, daddy is doing nothing all day but playing X-Box and we’d get the case when either something horrific happened to the child due to daddy’s neglect. Or we’d get shaken baby syndrome because daddy got upset when the baby interrupted his video game playing. Finally one of the judges just asked in open court, “What is the deal with all these hard-working young women having babies by these losers? Can’t they tell these guys are just a bunch of golddiggers?” I think this is the ultimate demonstration of how we’ve totally flipped the script in regards to gender roles and any type of societal norm. To our detriment I might add. (BTW, I realize that in today’s economy plenty of men are unemployed and women are having to carry the family due to circumstances. That’s not the situation I’m talking about here. These guys have never had a job and have no intention of getting one.)
I had quite a chuckle on the “90 Days” as I have never understood “waiting for someone to decide” or “being available indefinitely”.
I will briefly share something similar on the “guy that stopped calling”. In my case, the guy stated (he was a non-BM) that he just wasn’t ready to get serious and that we should take a “break”. In my mind, it meant, this situation was not going to go any further. I was fine with it and told him as much.
Fast forward to about 4-5 months later and suddenly I get a phone call from him asking me out on a date. He had had time “to think about what he wanted in life and that he realized what a nice person I was and wanted to try again..”
I must admit that what follows was not very “lady-like”: I laughed on the phone and stated “what happened, did your girlfriend finally decide to dump you and now you want to execute your “fallback” plan?” He immediately stammered and then tried to recover. I told him, I may be many things but being a fool is not one of them and promptly hung up on him. Needless to say, he did not call back and I certainly did not call him.
With 6 billion people on the planet, there is no reason for any person to settle for rubbish.
Faith,
You’re welcome! You said, “The attraction of, selection of and vetting of men is what many women are missing in today’s society across the board but obviously the consequences are far more severe for black women. Yet the “experts” continue to give misinformation.”
This is yet another point of irritation for me. How in the world is it left up to a handful of voices—like me, of all people—to be the ones speaking the truth? Where are our scholars, religious leaders, and other thought leaders?!
Somebody like me is NOT supposed to be the one on the microphone talking about these various issues. I didn’t train to do any kind of outreach; and I’m not qualified to do this. I only feel ethically compelled to speak because almost nobody else is saying anything truthful. They’re repeating empty dogma and slogans. Such as the nonsense argument you described hearing that the huge HIV/AIDs infection rate among AAs is somehow about poverty. Meanwhile, several generations of AA women and girls are dying on the vine.
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Roslyn,
You said, “Keep in mind these were teenaged girls and frankly I’m not surprised at their disgust at female sexual arousal, but what could possibly explain similar statements coming from grown women? I think we in the so-called black community have taken the Madonna/Whore conundrum to whole new heights.”
ITA. AAs have the bad habit of taking just about everything to dysfunctional heights and depths that have never been seen before.
About these teenage AA girls who are proud to be self-proclaimed “bust it babes” AND simultaneously Victorian-era prudes (when it comes to their own bodies and sexual pleasure): That attitude is so profoundly unhealthy that it’s breathtaking.
It reminds me of the identity fragmentation of deeply closeted gay White male Republican politicians that are periodically outed. Like the one with the “wide stance” who was arrested while cruising other men in the bathroom.
In fact, that degree of fragmentation that those girls (and so many other grown AA women) exhibit almost reminds me of a form of Dissociative Identity Disorder.
**Warning:”Spooky-minded” religious-inspired commentary to follow. LOL!** I firmly believe that this sort of severe and pervasive identity fragmentation is against God’s will. It’s contrary to the Divine Unity that Muslims are taught. Muslims believe that God is One, and Indivisible. This concept is called in Arabic “Tawheed.” God is One, His eternal message to mankind (as relayed by various prophets) is in essence one, and He has inclined the universe toward unity. Regarding humans, this means personal unity within ourselves as individuals.
Roslyn, the degree of personal fragmentation that you’re describing with those girls is scary. Like the deeply closeted, White gay male Republican politicians, people do all sorts of dangerous and destructive things (to themselves and to others) when they have that degree of fragmentation in their lives. {shudder}
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Karen,
You said, “I had quite a chuckle on the “90 Days” as I have never understood “waiting for someone to decide” or “being available indefinitely”.
Guurl, puh-leeze.
Expect Success!
***Note to Readers***
In making this new site the kind of project that’s sustainable for me over the long-run, I’ve had to streamline how I handle certain things. The comments section is one of them. What this means is that I’ll give substantive responses to those folks who enter the conversations early (as I did across the board at the previous blog).
After each post is a couple of days old, I’ll generally continue to publish new comments from readers. (That meet the commenting guidelines as set forth at the previous blog—those who are unfamiliar can read the comment “box” at the previous blog.)
But, after a each post is a couple of days old, I generally WON’T continue responding to new comments.
In other words, I’ll continue to publish comments to this post, but I’m not going to reply to any more comments in this thread. FYI. Please feel free to talk among yourselves!
Expect Success!
@Khadija
Roslyn, the degree of personal fragmentation that you’re describing with those girls is scary. Like the deeply closeted, White gay male Republican politicians, people do all sorts of dangerous and destructive things (to themselves and to others) when they have that degree of fragmentation in their lives. {shudder}
Of course and that’s precisely what happens, it’s almost a foregone conclusion. Their interpretation of the religion they’ve been taught sets them up perfectly for this magical thinking. They think that enjoying or preparing for sex (ie buying condoms, having a frank discussion with their partner, etc…) makes them a whore, but on the other hand they have to do everything possible to please their man. Even if their man couldn’t give a rat’s furry behind about pleasing them. And hey, once they’ve been indoctrinated into that kind of craziness it’s a simple hop skip and a jump to the crazy thinking and behavior you describe in your post.
Oh, and one more thing I forgot to mention. Back in college I took a religion class and was flabbergasted by the difference in the Christian view and the Jewish view of sex and sexuality. Especially as it pertains to women. In Judaism, as is in most religions sex is prohibited prior to marriage. But most interestingly regular sex is a woman’s RIGHT. It’s so important that it ranks right up there with other rights a woman has from her husband that he’s not allowed to reduce including food and clothing. AND he must also make sure that sex is pleasurable for her. Apparently this was so important that it’s in the Talmud. It also indicates how frequently a man must provide sex to his wife based on his occupation and this can only be changed by the marital contract. A man is even required to pay attention to his wife to look for signs that she wants sex so she doesn’t have to ask! What a concept! I mean it’s literally as different as night and day.
The primary purpose of sex is to reinforce the marital bond, NOT procreation as is in Christianity. And sexual desire is not evil. I know that from a historical view Christians did as much as possible to distance themselves from Jews, but I’ve always thought the difference in this viewpoint is quite interesting.
I’m not an expert nor can I even quote Bible passages. There was a time when I did read a good portion of the Bible. I’m not sure the issue is the teachings of Christ. There are many passages in the Bible that speak to (implicitly or explicitly) the joys of sex on a physical and emotional/spiritual level. There are many passages regarding the rights and protection of women and children.
The major problem is that 80% of people in the world are SHEEP. Majority want to be told what to do, what to believe, and how and when to do it. Most people don’t want to do the hard work that would require true change. The Influencing Bodies/Groups know this.
When it comes to women’s roles, sexuality, and power, you really have to learn to distill the distorted messages. The Bible, Koran, Torah and other major religious texts have distortions when it comes to women because most where written and filtered through the eyes of men. Like we acknowledge, no group gives up or shares power easily. Men especially are very good at using whatever leverage (real or fabricated) they can find to enforce their own viewpoints.
Khadija, I hear alot of things on the news saying this or that disease is the biggest killer of African American women.Do you think it’s safe to say that low self esteem and a lack of self love is the biggest killer of African American women today?
This is what i’ve been telling other black people.Everytime I hear about black people in general getting diseases it is most likely due to lack of self care.I think most diseases can be avoided altogether with education,proper diet, and other safe habits.It seems that many people with esteem issues, depression, hopelessness etc don’t take good care of themselves.Heck,my granny is one of the most well rounded individuals I know,she’s a nurse who eats nutriciously,she’s honest, hardworking, loving,god fearing etc.,but even she fell victim to an illness. I believe it was because in old age she tried to support too many people.I’ve been helping put a stop to that and she’s been doing much much better.Since she’s been doing less for people she really hasn’t been ill at all Khadija.It seems that in order for women to be healthy the mind must be healthy.This is why I love your site and few other sites ran by black women because you encourage us to only take in good things and leave the garbage alone.
I believe that it’s all connected (mind, body and soul).
Expect Success!
Dear Khadija,
You said, “This is yet another point of irritation for me. How in the world is it left up to a handful of voices—like me, of all people—to be the ones speaking the truth? Where are our scholars, religious leaders, and other thought leaders?!
Those you named above BENEFIT from the status quo. They earn their money by reporting on the dysfunction (i.e. so-called scholars and thought leaders) while the religious leaders have a serious financial stake in keeping AA BW in BONDAGE to ideas and dogmas that will maintain them being shackled and chained to a version of religious dogma that is causing the literal death of thousands of AA BW. I am not talking about faith as that is a personal relationship directly with God. I am speaking of the “institutions” that serve to siphon every resource from AA BW leaving them with nothing in the end but regret, ill health and a diminished life. As we do not go on shooting rampages, this silent death goes on under the radar.
You and the other small number of voices have no vested interest in the status quo and I for one am very thankful for this forum. I was blessed to see the dysfunction up close in my formative years and disconnected from the Matrix over 20+ years ago but forums such as yours allows me the opportunity to pay it forward by sharing my experiences in the hope that if it reaches at least one AA BW that she can disconnect and move forward to a better life, then I have done what I can as a Sojourner to mid-wife another potential Sojourners…
Birth control sabotage is a form of domestic violence and a study was done on it and then suppressed because it was thought to be biased against certain minorities and people of little means in other words black, hispanic and poor white women.
Long version
http://www.impactresearch.org/documents/dvandbirthcontrol.pdf
This survey link was long but there is a shorter version here:
http://www.impactresearch.org/documents/birthcontrolexecutive.pdf
Great post again. I don’t have much to add except that I agree that the HIV/AIDS rates for AAW would quickly fall if AAW would eliminate most BM as their sexual partners, as well as other common sense behaviors that were mentioned (I also think these issues are related to self-esteem, self-efficacy, and sexual abuse/assault histories). Another thing, I also get frustrated when people talk about the ‘lack of education/awareness’ about HIV/AIDS as a cause of the high rates. They have been talking about this disease for at least 2 decades in ways targeted toward AA’s. People were all up in PSA’s doing the running man trying to get our attention, and people have the nerve to act like they didn’t know. Either they weren’t paying attention, or convinced themselves the information did not appy to them (magical thinking).
“When women choose to have sex with men that they can’t talk to about important things (including the sex they’re having), the odds are that won’t be a good experience.”
This is the cold harsh fact. I’ve never had casual sex, but the women I went to college with did. Men generally don’t “make love” to women whom they don’t respect. This is the case with men of all races, really. Which means it’s 10x worse for black women. They’ve complained these men were bad in bed, but in actuality, men are better in bed with women they want to impress as is the case with everything else. I’ve heard that sex was rough, no foreplay, and over as quickly as it started with casual sex. I’ve heard SO MANY horror stories from women of all ethnicities about this fact. MOST of the stories regarding casual sex in college were from non-black women who liked to “party”.
In other communities there’s “The Madonna/Whore Complex”, where there’s love making/love versus disrespect and dismissal. In the black community, it seems to be “The Asexual Mammy/ Ho Complex”. At least in other communities, the Madonna is favorable for marriage, lovemaking and lifelong partnership. With us, there’s no real distinction as both result in negative treatment based on what we’re willing to give and not receive, and that includes being rejected for marriage. I know of a black woman for example who was a virgin even, and a great girl at school who told us she lost her virginity to a thug at 22 years old. He STILL had bad sex with her, and told everyone about how he “popped that” and refused to go d*wn on a woman, and other explicit details. She was so humiliated and heartbroken. Any other non-black woman would’ve been a “Madonna” who could have easily lost it to her fiance or husband. The girl was even super smart, pretty, and she liked to cook. Who knows how long that incident took to heal, or more importantly, what would’ve happened if she continued to wait?
I think MOST women get attached from sex. Now if you’re in the probably 2% that do not, then casual sex is fine for you. I think all women have the right to do what makes them genuinely happy. But the rest of us cannot afford not to think clearly and should be self-aware of what we’re capable of. What I’m saddened to hear are the disillusioned women who have sex with men who have shown them no genuine interest, that is, aren’t interested in commitment with them and make that clear. This is when “guilty sex” filters in that becomes baggage. It’s a strong blow to any woman’s self-esteem that a man she had sex with abandoned her after he got it.
[...] glorify marriage-free baby making in both word and deed. As Khadija pointed out in her recent post, “Magical Thinking About Sex,” many black women settle for ‘baby mamma status’ as a direct result of feeling desperate to keep [...]