If You Really Want To Help Black Girls, Marry One Of This Planet’s Dominant, Alpha-Men

Welcome to the fifth installment of an ongoing series of You Betta Recognize posts. Faith, blog host of Acts Of Faith In Love And Life, is currently having an extremely important conversation. She’s raising points that need to be repeated among African-American women and girls who want to live well. And among those African-American women who want to maximize the odds of their future children living well. She asks the question, Are Asian Woman Trophy Wives, Or Just Smart At Picking Quality Husbands?

I would answer “both.” Yes, non-Asian men have stereotypes about Asian women. However, Asian women are shrewd enough to work those stereotypes to their individual (and indirectly to their collective) advantage! This is a lesson that more African-American women need to learn. We’re so preoccupied with issues of political correctness that we cut our own throats in terms of maximizing our marriage options. Nobody else operates like this. Certainly not Black men, including the many Pan-African Black male activists who talked “Black” this and that, and married White women. Including that scholar-hero of the ultra-Black, “Blacker than thou” crowd,

Cheikh Anta Diop (yep the very one considered one of the greatest African historians of the 20th century a senegalese) married Louise Marie Maes, a French woman in 1953 in Paris.

Many African-American women worry about nonblack men having a so-called “fetish” with the traits that these men find attractive. Let’s think about this for a moment. We’re actually bothered and offended when a nonblack man finds our West African-derived skin tones, features, and hair textures attractive. Why is it called a “fetish” if a nonblack man is able to appreciate Black women’s beauty? Meanwhile, we live among a collective of African-American men who are open about their hatred of those same West African complexions, features and hair textures in women! [See statements by creatures such as Yung Berg, NeYo, and so on. See statements and actions by countless other African-American men.]

And instead of calling these Black men the anti-Black racists that they are, we water down the language we use to describe what these racist Black males refer to as their “preferences.” So, there’s a post that asks, Does Hip Hop Like Light Skinned Girls Too Much? I need not say much more about how that question is being framed. It’s sort of like asking, “Does the Klan like white sheets and hoods too much?” In both cases, phrasing the question and the so-called “preference” that way deliberately misses the point.

Back to “fetishes.” Does it still count as a so-called “fetish” when the nonblack man is willing and eager to make a particular Black woman his wife first, and then the mother of his children? This type of “fetish” seems so much more respectful of the woman involved than a male who never offers marriage, and is willing to see his children by that woman born out of wedlock.

Instead of screening, dating, and possibly marrying nonblack men who might have a so-called “fetish” about their undiluted West African features that operates FOR them, many African-American women restrict themselves to dating Black men who have openly-declared fetishes that operate AGAINST them. How crazy is that?

At the end of the day, what Black men think, say, or do does not matter. It only matters to those Black women who are foolish enough to restrict themselves to dating Black men. Black men are not the dominant men on this planet. In every multiracial society on this planet, Black men are collectively dominated by the men from other races in those societies.

African-American women focusing their attention on Black men and their “preferences” has not, and will not, accomplish anything of value for Black women and their children. The long-term solution to the collective challenges facing African-American women is for individual Black women to marry quality men. To marry whichever man who is willing—and best positioned—to ensure that they and their children live well. Without discriminating against quality White men. This is what Asian women did. And this is how Asian women have greatly improved their collective life opportunities over the past fifty years. This came up during an earlier conversation where I said,

MANY PROBLEMS WILL SOLVE THEMSELVES WHEN MORE BLACK WOMEN MARRY THE MOST POWERFUL MEN ON THE PLANET. THIS IS HOW ASIAN WOMEN GREATLY IMPROVED THEIR COLLECTIVE IMAGE.

Finally, the long-term, permanent solution to the twin problems of: (1) African-American women’s negative public image and (2) the harmful public slander of Black women by Black men will only come about as more African-American women marry more of the most powerful, dominant men. For a very long time leading up to right now, White men have been the most powerful, dominant, Alpha men on this planet. It’s reasonable to expect them to remain the planet’s most powerful, Alpha men for the foreseeable future.

This is the strategy that Asian women quietly and successfully carried out. These women did this to better their own individual circumstances, but it had the positive side effect of bettering their collective image. As increasing numbers of quality, prominent, powerful White men started marrying Asian women, suddenly Asian women started being perceived as increasingly desirable and attractive by other types of men.

Asian women weren’t always considered desirable by large numbers of non-Asian men. That shift in mass perception came about because of more Asian women marrying prominent, powerful, Alpha-male, White men.

I would add that the common assumption was that such women were among the Asian prostitutes that hang around US Army bases in Japan, Korea, South Vietnam, Thailand, the Philippines, and so on. And many of them were! Asian women indirectly turned that mass negative perception totally around. One Asian bride—married to a prominent, powerful, Alpha male, White husband—at a time. African-American women can do the same thing.

THIS IS BECAUSE MOST MEN OF COLOR TAKE THEIR CUES ABOUT MANY ISSUES, INCLUDING WOMEN’S DESIRABILITY, FROM DOMINANT WHITE MEN

This is because most men of color on this planet take their cues in assessing women’s desirability from White men. In terms of raw power, White men are the dominant men on this planet. Whatever White men feel is desirable, other men will follow their lead and buy into that belief.

African-American males are generally followers on this planet. They are not the dominant, Alpha males on this planet who get to decide which groups of women are considered attractive. Black men take their lead from the dominant White men. Whoever the dominant White men feel is attractive (White women and Asian women in general, and individual Black women), many Black men will follow their lead and parrot whatever these dominant White men say about these women. For example, I didn’t start hearing many African-American men saying that the dark-skinned Mrs. Obama is attractive until after the White media and White men were publicly talking about how she’s glamorous and reminiscent of Jacqueline Kennedy.

When more dominant, powerful, Alpha-male White men marry Black women, then Black men will stop slandering Black women. Either out of their habit of taking their cues from White men, or out of fear of offending this emerging critical mass of White men who view Black women attractive and desirable.

More and more individual African-American women living well by being married to quality men is the long-term solution to most of African-American women’s collective problems.

If you really want to help the African-American girls coming behind you, set a good example for them by marrying a quality husband from among this planet’s dominant Alpha men.

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97 Responses to “If You Really Want To Help Black Girls, Marry One Of This Planet’s Dominant, Alpha-Men”

  1. Vonnie says:

    Great piece as usual! Black women tend to shoot themselves in the foot OFTEN with dating. Offended at every compliment or trying to dissect it to the smallest degree if the speaker isn’t a black dude, and yet don’t even blink with half of the nasty “compliments” that are fine from black men’s mouths.

    We are fetishized MUCH more often by black dudes over our butts and anything else purely sexual and yet a white or asian or hispanic guy says that you are sexy or exotic (which um, you ARE from his viewpoint, just like taiwanese food would be exotic to my palette) and all hell breaks loose. gooooodness.

    It’s pretty damn easy to know if a man only wants you for sex versus wants a relationship with you, worry about THAT. I mean hell, I say loud and proud that i have a THING for light eyes, especially blue ones…am I fetishizing light eyes? maybe, maybe not, but I like what I like and I’m fine if someone choses me because they like playing in my soft curly afro or want to see my caramel skin contrasted against their tan/cream complexion. Fine by me if that’s not the ONLY reason that we are together. Let me look into your light eyes and you can play in my hair allllll you want to, you exotic sexy beast. lol

    Marrying well will only elevate. I want someone who finds me beautiful PHYSICALLY and mentally, it’s not a BAD thing! I don’t get the offended responses, if they aren’t nasty approaches.

    Many Asian women consider that a box to break out of, the submissive perfect little wife box, and I can understand that it would be stifling and disrespectful if he’s only with her as a stereotype and not as a person. But they are collectively winning a helluva lot more from their stereotype than we are from our angry, big, offended, loud, sister souljah stereotype.

    • ak says:

      Vonnie:

      Black women tend to shoot themselves in the foot OFTEN with dating. Offended at every compliment or trying to dissect it to the smallest degree if the speaker isn’t a black dude, and yet don’t even blink with half of the nasty “compliments” that are fine from black men’s mouths.

      We are fetishized MUCH more often by black dudes over our butts and anything else purely sexual and yet a white or asian or hispanic guy says that you are sexy or exotic (which um, you ARE from his viewpoint, just like taiwanese food would be exotic to my palette) and all hell breaks loose. gooooodness.

      Thank you! I don’t understand how BW can be this way myself. If you have two men disrespecting you for instance, then you just have two men disrespecting you, it’s not better or cuter the way only one of them disrespects you. But I’m not offended by men who appreciate my beauty and who don’t require me to dilute my blackness so….

    • Danielle says:

      dang Vonnie, tell ‘em why you’re mad! lol and yes i agree with you. how many times are we objectified by black men because we have a “fattie” or whatever else they call our big round booties. on top of that, what relationship, interracial or otherwise, did not start with a physical attraction?

      anyway, i do agree that we need to marry up. not only for ourselves, but for our children, especially our daughters. i find it hard to believe that having a powerful father is not going to be an asset to a child for years to come. a friend of mine got a teaching job at a prep school because her mother-in-law was head of some committee there 25 YEARS ago. what does that have to do with a marrying up? her mother in law was a homemaker but her father-in-law is a well respected and well known critical care surgeon in the community. by marrying into the family and taking her husband’s last name, no one dared to refuse the new Mrs. Donaghue a job because she married Dr. Donaghue’s youngest child (a successful lawyer himself).

      i have similar stories in my own family. i have an aunt who as far as i could remember has always lived in the most exclusive neighborhoods. i remember getting reprimanded for dragging my feet at night because everything echoed! i’m not saying that black people can’t live in nice areas, but with her it’s a different ball game. house-shopping anywhere else was not even an option! she didn’t house-shop on a price range. her husband who is white decided what schools he wanted his 2 sons to attend, what kind of kids he wanted them to play with and what level of exclusivity they wanted and that’s where they looked. shady realtors wouldn’t even dare steer her away or “suggest a more suitable area” because she had the most powerful ally. what woman wouldn’t want that kind of access for her children?

      i didn’t think we needed to tell people this in the first place. because why would you try to marry anything less than the most powerful, alpha male? and to those whose sole purpose in life is to throw straw arguments, power doesn’t just mean “money”. it’s also reputation, network, access to certain lifestyle and neighborhoods.

  2. Vonnie,

    Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it.

    Ever since I removed myself from all-AA social circles and stopped paying attention to most AA media and forums, I’m getting to the point where many of the things AAs say among ourselves sound utterly insane to me. It really makes me wonder how in the world had I ever become acclimated to this madness in the first place?

    For example, even a cursory glance around the site I linked to will show a notorious flyer for a party held in Detroit in which light-skinned women and Libras were granted free entry for the evening. Did they use the traditional AA paper bag test for that mess? My God. Then there are the deranged comments from a number of the AA male readers there. In the past, I would have been offended, enraged, and gotten into heated debates about such internal, anti-Black-racist madness.

    Now, I’m at the point that I don’t understand why any sane Black person even bothers to speak to such creatures. They’re deranged AND utterly worthless. I almost can’t believe the time and energy I wasted in the past arguing with such miscreants. I should have simply walked AWAY from them, and TOWARD healthier people and social environments in the nonblack, outer world. The sooner, the better. However, better late than never. I praise God that I woke up a few years ago, and fled the radioactive all-AA social environment.

    More AA women need to just WALK AWAY from the radioactive all-AA social environment, and seek out healthier social alternatives in the nonblack, outer world.

    You said, “Black women tend to shoot themselves in the foot OFTEN with dating. Offended at every compliment or trying to dissect it to the smallest degree if the speaker isn’t a black dude, and yet don’t even blink with half of the nasty “compliments” that are fine from black men’s mouths.

    We are fetishized MUCH more often by black dudes over our butts and anything else purely sexual and yet a white or asian or hispanic guy says that you are sexy or exotic (which um, you ARE from his viewpoint, just like taiwanese food would be exotic to my palette) and all hell breaks loose. gooooodness.”

    Exactly. This sort of thinking (looking for a “reason” to be offended by compliments from nonblack men) is crazy and self-defeating. Especially in the context of the insulting verbal FILTH that so many AA women excuse from BM.

    You said, “Many Asian women consider that a box to break out of, the submissive perfect little wife box, and I can understand that it would be stifling and disrespectful if he’s only with her as a stereotype and not as a person. But they are collectively winning a helluva lot more from their stereotype than we are from our angry, big, offended, loud, sister souljah stereotype.”

    So some Asian women say. However, I look at what people DO. Whatever some Asian women say about that stereotypical little box, they STILL use it to their advantage! And another angle with that particular box is that I doubt the level of “submissiveness” that WM expect from AW is anywhere near the level of submission that Asian men from their own cultures expect!

    From what I can tell of the Korean and Korean-Americans that I’ve observed up close and personal, feminism has NOT made much headway in that particular culture. My overall impression is that the “average” sexist American WM is less sexist than the “average” sexist Korean/Korean-American man. I mean this in terms of the sexist Asian man’s expectations of what he can get away with in terms of an Asian wife.

    Or to look at it from the other end—when men of color marry WW, they usually don’t expect the level of maid/servant service that they expect from women in their own ethnic groups. Because they know that WW generally aren’t raised to put up with that degree of overt mess. The Latino man who marries the White, Anglo woman generally does not expect the same level of maid/servant service that he’d probably demand from a Latina wife. The same with South Asian men with WW. The same with Asian men with WW.

    So even those WM who daydream of submissive Asian wives are relatively less likely to push that mess as far as a “typical” Asian husband from the woman’s same ethnic group. The WM isn’t as entrenched in the specific cultural details of the type of male entitlement going on within his Asian wife’s culture—he’s an outsider. Also, the odds are that the other WW in that White husband’s family won’t be so quick to approve of him stepping on his wife.

    All of the above is another quiet aspect of how White feminist women have acclimated many WM to less sexist behaviors than the behaviors that are the norm in many non-Western cultures. And this includes AAs. The things that AA males get away with in mass AA culture are incredible to other men. [Things like AA males' mass abandoment of their children. Things like the numbers of physically adult AA males who have never had their own names on a lease or mortgage because they live off a series of women---rotating from their mother's couches to living in their various baby mamas' apartments and houses, etc. These AA males live in a series of "nests" created and financed by BW.] It’s interesting. Feminist WW did the work, and large numbers of Asian women are benefitting from WW’s feminist struggles. Ahh, the irony…

    Expect Success!

    • ak says:

      Khadija:

      Or to look at it from the other end—when men of color marry WW, they usually don’t expect the level of maid/servant service that they expect from women in their own ethnic groups.

      Ah ha! That’s a good way of putting it and it’s true too.

  3. SS says:

    “See statements by creatures such as Yung Berg, NeYo, and so on. See statements and actions by countless other African-American men.”

    I would add, see statements made by black creatures that happened to have grown up in any country that has been colonized.
    Frankly, I think black girls should leave black men out of their dating pools entirely. I know that sounds radical but today the average black man has very little value to add to the average black woman. If you want to date black men make sure they are exceptional i.e. not a color racist, well off financially, believes in marriage and monogamy, has no out of wedlock children, grew up with a father in the home.

    • T says:

      That’s my standard, despite the “you’re so picky” comments I get from family members and friends. I’ve long ago decided that I was not going to settle for baby-mama status with any man-black men included. If being picky means waiting it out for someone who is financially and emotionally stable enough to provide for a family, then so be it.

  4. SS,

    The points you raise are some of the reasons why I try to be specific and often refer to “African-Americans” and “African-American males” specifically.

    You said, “Frankly, I think black girls should leave black men out of their dating pools entirely. I know that sounds radical but today the average black man has very little value to add to the average black woman.”

    From what I can tell, this is generally true of specifically African-American men. And BM who are similarly situated to AA men, such as Caribbean-British men in the UK. Not all, but most. I would agree that a BW who’s serious about looking for a quality husband (NOT a baby daddy) would end up bypassing most AA men and Caribbean-British men in the UK. But not because of race, but because of quality considerations, as I’ll mention later in this comment.

    I don’t get the feeling that the pathologies on mass display among AA men and similarly situated BM (such as mass fatherlessness and mass male abandonment of their children) is common among various African ethnic groups. Frankly, I haven’t really seen anything approaching the AA degree of overally male unfitness among the BM that I’ve encountered from other racially Black ethnic groups. [I've noted some other types of problems with some African men, but nothing like the mass rejection of paternal responsibility by AA men.] There are categories of racially Black men who don’t display the widespread pathologies of AA males.

    Again, it’s not race—it’s quality and culture. Culture has a lot to do with either creating or destroying the quality of the men within an ethnic group. There are some widespread cultural dysfunctions among AAs—such as mass fatherlessness—that have caused the creation of a cadre of AA males who are unfit and unwilling to protect or provide for a family.

    In terms of (similarly situated to AA males in terms of their pathologies) Caribbean-British BM, they were mentioned in one of the first posts at this blog, Who Else Wants An Optimal Lifestyle. Among other things, I said,

    African-American women are the only people on this planet who sacrifice opportunities for personal happiness in support of the already-dead Black community. Ladies, remember that African-American women have been alone in letting anything (including ideology) narrow their personal choices. Nobody else does this, including other women of color. Not African women. Not Latina women. Not Asian women. Not Arab women.

    And certainly not African-American men. Black men in general have never narrowed their dating, marriage, work, or residential choices to support any ideology. Please consider the following partial list of individuals before you do so. (It has to be a partial list, because a full one would probably take up an entire phone book.) Also, pay attention to whether any of the “race men” and “race women” you know ever comment about these men. Or do they only start talking about sacrificing for some cause when it looks like you might expand your life options?

    Amiri Baraka, Charles Barkley, Harry Belafonte, Billy Blanks, Julian Bond, Taye Diggs, Father Divine, Frederick Douglass, Julius Erving (Dr. J), Frantz Fanon, Marvin Gaye, Cuba Gooding, Jr., Gregory Hines, Rick James, James Earl Jones, Quincy Jones, Van Jones, Reginald Lewis, Thurgood Marshall, Major Owens, Sidney Poitier, Adam Clayton Powell, Prince, Richard Pryor, Lou Rawls, Lionel Richie, Dennis Rodman, Seal, Russell Simmons, O.J. Simpson, Wesley Snipes, Clarence Thomas, Melvin Van Peebles, Ben Vereen, Herschel Walker, Walter White, John Edgar Wideman, Billy Dee Williams, Montel Williams.

    Did the above (and countless other) Black men narrow their personal lifestyle options out of concern for the Black masses? Did these men stay in any particular place to fix the problems in the Black areas? No, they didn’t. And nobody expected that of them. In part, because they know that Black men won’t sacrifice their personal bliss for anything, including ideology.

    Mark my words: The “Black women as martyrs” recruiters will keep demanding that you martyr yourself no matter what happens. They will continue making these demands until the final demise of the African-American collective. They will repeat the same slogans as African-Americans continue becoming more deeply entrenched in permanent underclass status, and overall disintegration.

    They will keep making these demands of you even after the African-American out of wedlock birthrate reaches 90-95 percent. The 1965 Moynihan Report warned about the rising illegitimacy rate among African-Americans. Most of our people didn’t heed the warning. Instead, we recited angry slogans in response.

    They will keep making these demands of you even after the African-American male interracial relationship rate approaches 50 percent and beyond. For those of you who think this can’t or won’t happen, I would refer you to the current example of the Caribbean Black male population in the United Kingdom. West Indian Black men’s interracial relationship rate in the UK has reached 48 percent. (See the BBC Caribbean.com story from January 19, 2009, The Mixed Race March in Britain.)

    In fact, the UK situation is a sneak preview of how African-American men will continue their singular focus on seeking their own individual bliss while the deceived masses of Black women in the U.S. keep trying to uphold “Black love” and the “Black family” . . . all by themselves.

    You said, “If you want to date black men make sure they are exceptional i.e. not a color racist, well off financially, believes in marriage and monogamy, has no out of wedlock children, grew up with a father in the home.”

    The sane, sensible, NORMAL HUMAN FEMALE standards would automatically exclude the vast majority of AA males under the age of approximately 40 years old. So, from my way of thinking, there’s no need to consciously exclude AA males by race.

    Simply using UNIVERSAL, NORMAL HUMAN FEMALE standards of wanting—

    —a husband who was taught by his own father how to be a healthy, wholesome family man who happily protects and provides for his family—

    —wold automatically exclude most modern AA males. There are other types of racially Black, usually NON-African-American men who are capable of meeting those standards. However, let me emphasize: I DON’T recommend that AA women go out of their way looking for a quality man who is racially Black. That’s an inefficient use of a woman’s time in the context of biological clocks. And doing so means running the risk of passing up suitable husbands. It’s more efficient to take a serious look at ALL quality men.

    Expect Success!

    • ak says:

      Yeah in London the African men I’ve seen around who’ve come straight from off the boat, not the young ones raised or born in the UK really, they are always hand in hand with their kids on their own taking them to school or whereever else. They seem to have a presence and influence in their children’s lives. But they are a sexist bunch because they’re not too different from the Asians in that regard are they?

      My Mom had a friend a Jamaican nurse who married a Nigerian man, and she went back to Nigeria with him for him and the whole of his family to beat her up, so a couple of years later she had to escape them and come back to the UK with her kids. A Nigerian woman I used to work with said she hated her sister-inlaw back in Nigeria and said that her brother needs to slap that woman. So for me personally I have to say ‘No’ to them. Pass.

      • AK,

        Yeah, I don’t want to get too far into this, but I’ve heard many horror stories about/from Western women who married African men. African men sound as sexist as Arab/Pakistani men. Dealing with men from extremely sexist non-Western cultures (such as Africans and Arabs/Pakistanis) can often be a very bad and very dangerous situation for a Western Black woman to put herself in.

        Expect Success!

    • ak says:

      Also just so it doesn’t sound like my people don’t have any problems, yeah the Caribbean men straight from off the boat have the tendency to ‘drop pickney’ all over the place and only sometimes do they have anything to do with all of those kids, also they’re sexist in a lecherous way (dancehall music/ragga hello? and even the covert lyrics of soca), and they try to get visas from you and drop you as soon as they do especially the younger generation of them.

  5. SS says:

    The points you raise are some of the reasons why I try to be specific and often refer to “African-Americans” and “African-American males” specifically.
    I am not as eloquent as you so please forgive me. lol
    I was speaking from my perspective as a person from the Caribbean. The many dysfunctions you described in many of your posts can be attributed to West Indian males. The common denominator seems to be black males that are descendants of Africans brought to West for the purpose of slavery.
    My statements were deliberately provocative to prove a point. I was simply implying that if you apply normal criteria for selecting mates to today’s black males (from countries that have a legacy of slavery) you would be hard pressed to find many that would meets your standards. I do not mean that black women should deliberately leave black males out of her dating pool, I was simply pointing out that today’s black males (most not all) seem to be either unwilling or ill suited to be proper mates.

  6. Karen says:

    Khadija,

    You said, “..If you really want to help the African-American girls coming behind you, set a good example for them by marrying a quality husband from among this planet’s dominant Alpha men.”

    Done. *Smile*

  7. Felicia says:

    This is an excellent and TRUTHFUL post Khadija! I always say, IF I believed in past lives (and I don’t), I was definitely an Asian woman in a past life.LOL

    Because like Asian women, I’ve always been attracted to strong, family oriented, successful, responsible and well respected (on their jobs and by their communities and family) men with a preference for women with MY physical traits. A good normal non damaged man who finds me beautiful on the inside and out. A man who knows his role as a man, husband, and father is to provide, protect, and build.

    I found all that and more in my husband and I couldn’t be happier. I’ve benefited from marrying well, as have my children. And that’s the ONLY thing any normal heterosexual woman interested in marriage should be concerned with. HER personal upliftment and that of her children.

    Birds of a feather flock together. That’s why I’ve found – especially since marrying and baring children – that Asian, Hispanic, and East-Indian wives and mothers (those IR married and non) and middle/upper class WW who are not IR married – are usually drawn to me when I’m in various venues with my kids. We easily strike up conversations with each other and there’s not this tension that often (and sadly) exists sometimes when encountering African-American BW at times.

    And it’s because we (these married non AA moms) instinctively sense (correctly so) that we’re on the same WAVE LENGTH. We have the same VALUES (in this particular case marriage before motherhood) and it’s VALUES which ultimately bring people together. Not “race”.

    At least that’s been my personal experience.

    Again, FANTASTIC topic and you’re “on the money” with everything you’ve said!

    Peace and God’s blessings.

  8. SS,

    You said, “I was speaking from my perspective as a person from the Caribbean. The many dysfunctions you described in many of your posts can be attributed to West Indian males.”

    I’m not in a position to speak on that, since I’ve had very limited interactions with Caribbean men. But you’re in a position to know them and what’s going on with them—so, please do continue to speak on it! LOL!

    You said, “The common denominator seems to be black males that are descendants of Africans brought to West for the purpose of slavery. My statements were deliberately provocative to prove a point. I was simply implying that if you apply normal criteria for selecting mates to today’s black males (from countries that have a legacy of slavery) you would be hard pressed to find many that would meets your standards.”

    I would agree that this is generally true. Again, it’s cultural in terms of many categories of Western Black males, instead of racial.

    Although, as a side note, I will say that—from what I’ve observed of them in real life—I haven’t seen these AA male/and similarly situated Western BM-type of pathologies among the Panamanian BM that I’ve observed and dated. Not in anything approaching the degree and mass nature among AA males/similarly situated Western BM. The (Black) Panamanians I’ve met in real life also generally don’t give off the “don’t you dare call me Black” vibe that one sees with so many Black Latinos. I haven’t encountered many Panamanians who seemed frantic about being identified as “Latinos,” or as something other than Black—unlike most other Spanish-speaking, racially Black folks I’ve encountered.

    I don’t know enough about that culture to have any educated guesses about why most of the Panamanians I’ve met aren’t giving off that same strangely hostile, anti-Black, and anti-AA vibe that one gets from so many other types of Western Black folks. In an earlier conversation, PioneerValleyWoman mentioned that Black Panamanians are descended from English-speaking West Indians who migrated to Panama to work on the Panama Canal. I didn’t know this before she mentioned that. I had noticed that the bulk of the Black Panamanians I’ve met had Anglo surnames, but I didn’t know why that was, or how that came to be in the context of being from a Spanish-speaking country.

    Anyhoo, I’m saying all of this to emphasize that the pathologies under discussion (mass fatherlessness, etc.) that make most modern AA men/Similarly Situated Western Black men UNFIT and UNWILLING to be wholesome husbands and fathers are cultural. Not racial.
    _____________________________________________

    Karen,

    Good for you! :-) That’s a good example for young AA girls to follow. Instead of wasting their time isolating themselves with a bunch of sick, conquered, AA men/similarly situated Western Black men men who are unfit and unwilling to be effective protectors and providers. And who, on top of that, are anti-Black racists who hate unmixed West African features and traits.
    _____________________________________________

    Felicia,

    Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it.

    The point is for more AA women to focus on finding a family-oriented, loving, protective, and providing man for marriage. Instead of wasting their time interacting with sick, conquered, AA/similarly situated Western Black men who are unfit and unwilling to be effective protectors and providers. And who, on top of that, are anti-Black racists who hate unmixed West African features and traits.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Another note about this: AA women are so programmed to “put on our marching shoes” and engage in various types of Sista Soldiering that we resist acknowleging that certain types of problems can’t be fixed with those sorts of methods. Our knee-jerk response is to have mass boycotts, rallies, meetings, and forums to try to talk to sick, conquered AA men/similarly situated Western BM who are anti-Black racists who hate unmixed Black women. None of this stuff works. AA women have wasted the past 4 decades or so on these sorts of methods.

    Meanwhile, look at what Asian women have accomplished for themselves during the same period of time—both as individuals and as a collective—by focusing on marrying quality, Alpha men from among the dominant group! Asian women didn’t and don’t spend much time talking/whining to Asian men about their sexism. Instead, Asian women quietly MOVED ON. And by silently MOVING ON, Asian women changed the entire marriage landscape for themselves. And changed it for their own benefit.

    AA women can do the same, if we would just silently turn away from sick AA men and focus our attention on marrying a quality husband from among this planet’s dominant, Alpha men. All this other stuff that we do—such as endless, waste of time dialoging with AA males—is a diversion from actually solving the problems facing AA women.

    Expect Success!

  9. pioneervalleywoman says:

    Khadija:

    From what I can tell of the Korean and Korean-Americans that I’ve observed up close and personal, feminism has NOT made much headway in that particular culture. My overall impression is that the “average” sexist American WM is less sexist than the “average” sexist Korean/Korean-American man. I mean this in terms of the sexist Asian man’s expectations of what he can get away with in terms of an Asian wife.

    My reply:

    This is quite true; I have known AW who have specifically said they refuse to date AW because the men are sexist, and they are unapologetic about it. They also take advantage of the numbers. Asians are an even smaller proportion of the Af-Am population, and they have no interest in limiting themselves. Every single AW I have ever known as a colleague, acquaintance, or friend, and I’m thinking at least 5-10 women, are all married to WM.

  10. joyousnerd says:

    Truer words have never been spoken. A woman’s biggest and most critical decision is the man she chooses to marry and have children with. Most of the quality men are in the dominant group. It’s just common sense.

    I just want to clarify my opinion here: The problem with the low quality and no quality black men is NOT the simple fact that they are black! Their blackness correlates with a culture of unsuitability for marital life. So if you are seeking a spouse, you’d do well to avoid men who share that culture. Most of those men are black.

    Likewise, just choosing a white man is not going to get you anywhere if he has a culture of unsuitability. Take a look around a trailer park… white men as far as the eye can see but most of them are not quality men. It is not whiteness or blackness that is the salient characteristic, it is the man’s culture AND his values.

    If he values family but was reared in a culture that promotes having children spread to the four corners of the earth, he is unsuitable. If he is from a culture that promotes stable fatherhood but his personal values include having wild sexual escapades with as many women as he can find, he is unsuitable.

    BOTH need to be present in a quality husband, and race is only a correlate of the culture conducive to stable marriage.

  11. Monique says:

    Wonderful Post, Khadija!

    I intend to take a young BW that my mother used to babysit and one of her close girlfriends to lunch in the coming weeks to talk about this very issue. I wish an older BW would have taken me aside in my late teens early 20′s and “schooled” me on how and who to date and why. It would have saved me many years of having to deal with deranged/damaged BM. But as you have said better late than never.

    Indeed, BW MUST “date out or die out” as Evia has mentioned in her posts. BM are NOT going to change, they are NOT going to do better and BW CANNOT and SHOULD NOT waste time trying to “save” them.

    I am ALL about dating quality men. What I know I want and expect from a man in a relationship/marriage the vast majroty of the BM collective is wholly lacking in being able to meet those expectations. They simply cannot. So I must move on.

    BW need to GROOM themselves to be desriable to a wide variety of men, including WM, particularly those of MEANS who are ready, willing and able to protect and provide.

    BW are smart women, we know how to survive now we need to know how to thrive and live well. We owe it to ourselves and our future children.

  12. Monique says:

    Wonderful post, Khadija,

    I intend to tak a young Black girl and one of her close friends out to lunch to discuus this very same topic. BW must begin to groom themselves to be desirable to a variety of men and not just BM.

    As has so simply stated BWmust “date out or die” it really is that simple.

  13. Evia says:

    Khadija, GREAT post! And for the typical AA woman who’s focused on the marriage track and who knows that she would be wise to take advantage of dating and mating in the global village, these are the MAIN types of discussions she needs to be reading. Plenty of those bw who prefer men from the global village would also do themselves a BIG favor if they would just let the DBRbm in their region know they have NO interest in them/do NOT want them. My mom and grandmom always told me that it wastes a woman’s time and in some cases is not even safe for a woman to allow a man to think that she’s interested in him when she’s not. My point here is that if a woman is truly not interested in a male or in reforming him, she doesn’t spend time talking with him. She basically or politely may say “Hi” and “Bye.”

    @ Vonnie re:
    It’s pretty damn easy to know if a man only wants you for sex versus wants a relationship with you,

    LOL! ITA! Men are transparent. I’ve found that MANY bw cling to and use that stereotype of “wm just want a bw for sex” to protect themselves from their OWN strong attraction to wm. Many bw admire the manly qualities and traits that wm display with their women and children. Also some AA women are sexually attracted to wm and strongly attracted. That terrifies some of these women because they fear they would lose control of themselves emotionally and would end up being made to look like a fool by a wm. I’ve been digging into this and I am convinced that this is at the root of some of this “don’t like wm” attitude of some bw. That is also a part of the root of some of that ‘nothing but a bm’ worshipping.

    So these women pretend that they’re not attracted at all to wm. I notice how some bw at my church love to hug Darren and feel him close to them or feel his beard against their face. LOL! Some of them have even made comments about it–since he’s married to me and thus a “safe” wm. The few single wm who’ve attended the church rarely get any attention from bw there. There was one young, single, good-looking wm college student who had joined the church a couple of years ago. He even did volunteer work in the bc over there. When the church service would end each Sunday, I noticed how ALL of the young bw stayed away from him as if he were a leper. He finally stopped coming. When he drops in one day with his Asian or white wife, they will claim he didn’t like bw. SMH

    The way those women behave with Darren is just a natural type of curiosity and attraction that bw have for wm because the vast majority of AA women have never stood very close to a wm, smiled warmly at him, really looked at him, felt comfortable with him as they talk and hold his hand (a standard practice at the church), etc. Well, they can do that with Darren. So some of them relish looking at him up close and “experiencing” him. He IS “exotic” to them. Differences are often “exotic.” I would have loved to have flirted lightheartedly with an Asian man, but drat–no Asian man ever showed interest in me. LOL!

    If bw had a private place (and I DO think it should be private, if this were to be done) where they could honestly talk about their natural attraction to wm as MEN, a LOT of people would be shocked to the max. WHY????? White men are MALES. And there’s nothing more intoxicating to a woman than to be treated like she’s desirable and with respect by a worthy man of ANY race or group. It’s the pattern of that type of TREATMENT that counts.

    Females are attracted to males!! Just because he’s white doesn’t take his MALENESS away. I also notice that SOME bw regularly take pages from the bitter bm’s propaganda book to try hard to de-masculinize wm to other bw. They talk about how wm don’t have swagger, don’t have rhythm like a bm, don’t have as much bass in their voices as bm, aren’t as tall, and many bw still believe the myth that a wm doesn’t know how to give a bw a good “foot rub.” LOL! In my experience, it has been just the opposite. But I’m convinced that all of this is done to reduce the appeal of wm because if not, the average AA man wouldn’t stand a prayer at getting any attention from a typical reasonably attractive AA woman–these days.

    And Khadija, let’s face it, AA women in general need to stop being pc, hiding behind language, hoping that younger bw will be able to read between the lines or read the subtext. I’m happy that black males like Yung Berg are expressing their anti-black female racism because bw need to be punched in the face repeatedly and shocked out of their naivete and magical thinking about the typical AA-type bm. WAY too many AA women keep grasping for crumbs and contorting themselves to appeal to AA men, who in general, are NVs and LVs. So I want AA and similar bm to even be more vocally brutal, so that bw will NEVER forget this point in history how they were thrown under the bus when bm got the chance to trade them in for a brighter-whiter model. This is a lesson that bw must NOT forget because when (not “if”) the TEA Party folks and the millions of folks of various groups in this country with “tea party” sentiments about race/ethnic issues get their way, history will repeat itself here in the U.S. and we will see the return of a version of Jim Crow. The part of history that it is of paramount importance for bw to never repeat is the part where they ge suckered by bm again and allow bm to convince them they WE (AA men and women) are all in this together. AA women are NOT in the same situation as AA males because the males must eventually learn to successfully compete with other men in the world for resources or die trying. Meanwhile, all bw HAVE the female card–the most powerful and most desired card in the world–and with a little polishing of it in some cases can therefore, if she chooses–move fluidly throughout the global village, and with very few disadvantages.

    • KM says:

      Man, I would have loved to been at your church when that WM was there! I went to a multicultural church and even though I was definitely interested in IR, many of the non-AA men didn’t show interest except one Chinese man and he’s now dating a WW (not because I didn’t reciprocate but because I was dating for marriage, he was dating for fun. Oh well.)

      Don’t go there anymore because I basically got blackballed by the BW for dating IR and not dating this BM who was not for me and who’s aims in life did not fit mine. Even in multicultural churches, you have to watch yourself with IR because the crabs in the barrel are there, watching and waiting.

  14. Karen R. says:

    Khadija this is an excellent post! Asian women didn’t doubt that they were in fact worthy, entitled, or deserving of being elevated. I am glad the message is crystal clear here that AA women are equally entitled to the SAME LEVEL of care, elevation, provision and protection as other women. I am glad to see AA women rejecting the “we ‘be striving” mentally in terms of their dating/mating choices, i.e. “He’s got potential” or “I’m just trying to help a brotha’ out.” That is not our job to raise a man. Other women don’t do it, nor should we. I know that I am preaching to the choir here but this message needs to continue to get out.
    When I am out and about I see more and more professional-looking AA women and WM couples. when I see them, I think to myself “Yes!” She is not sitting around waiting on an AAM. As this behavior becomes more common-which I think it is-and young AA girls see AA women leading full, happy, satisfied and economically stable lives, the idea of helping `Pookie, Brokell and ‘nem’ won’t even be an issue. It will be as foreign as drinking poison.
    I sometimes think women of my generation were still ‘guilted’ (did I make up a word?) into providing never-ending and undying support to the BC and black men. We were taught that it was treasonous to date out. Thankfully, those days are ending. Now AA women, like other women, feel free to make choices that are singularly beneficial to her and her future children. If those choices happen to help others, great.
    You said in one of your comments upstream that when you removed yourself from all-AA social circles, environments, etc. you began to realize how insane the thinking of most AA’s can be. I can truly relate. Ideas and beliefs that I considered normal even as recently as 5 years ago, are totally foreign to me now.

  15. PioneerValleyWoman,

    You said, “This is quite true; I have known AW who have specifically said they refuse to date AW because the men are sexist, and they are unapologetic about it.”

    I’ve also known AW who have explicitly said that they would never date AM for the same reason (the overt sexism). I’ve also heard this same type of comment from a couple of Haitian-American women attorneys I’ve known over the years. All of these women dated and/or married WM.
    __________________________________

    JoyousNerd,

    You said, “It is not whiteness or blackness that is the salient characteristic, it is the man’s culture AND his values.”

    Exactly! I would add that the man’s existing “manhood skill set”—which is usually a reflection of his family of origin’s composition—is also extremely important. There are a handful of fatherless AA men who would like to be good husbands and fathers. However, they DON’T know how, because they weren’t taught by their own fathers. And they need remedial, “special ed” coaching. A sensible woman does NOT have time to waste with that type of male. Even if he means well, the bottom line is that he still doesn’t have the skill set to be a good protector and provider. Meanwhile, there are many other men who already have those skills.

    Since many (if not most) AA males are fatherless at this point, that one objective criterion of having been mentored into manhood by his own father would automatically eliminate most AA males from consideration. Modern AAs with our majority oow birth rate have lost touch with this human reality, but the composition of a man’s family of origin is extremely important when evaluating a man. A fatherless man has never seen—up close and personal, from INSIDE the home, 24/7/365—a man perform the role of husband and father.

    This lack of a baseline model to pattern his own behavior on has serious consequences later on down the road when that fatherless man tries to parent his own offspring. Lack of ever having seen a man be a 24/7/365 husband and father is why so many modern AA males believe that Weekend-Only Fathering, Long Distance Fathering, and Telephone-Based Fathering are sufficient. [WTH?]

    Over they years I’ve asked some of these AA Weekend/Telephone/Long Distance Fathers the following question: “How do you physically protect your children when you don’t live with them?” They had no answer. And from their shocked facial expressions, it was as if the idea that they were supposed to provide on-site physical protection for their own children had never occurred to them. I suppose it hadn’t occurred to them, since their own fathers never did that for them. All of which is totally negligent and crazy.

    NORMAL HUMAN MEN who are husbands and fathers will often get up in the middle of the night to peek into their children’s bedrooms to ensure that they’re safe, sound, and comfortable. In fact, I’ve heard a number of normal human fathers say that they don’t feel comfortable going to bed in the first place until after they’ve looked in on their kids.

    A lot of trolls howled (unpublished, of course :-) ) at the first blog when I did the post explaining all the reasons why AA women need to bypass fatherless males. However, the above-noted considerations are some of the practical and objective reasons why—from the beginning of human history to now—most human cultures steer their daughters away from fatherless men.

    Bottom line: It’s about a man’s values, culture, and existing skill set.
    ________________________________________________

    Monique,

    You said, “I intend to tak a young Black girl and one of her close friends out to lunch to discuss this very same topic. BW must begin to groom themselves to be desirable to a variety of men and not just BM.”

    Great! May the word “freedom to live well” message spread far and wide! :-) Thanks for doing your part to help our younger sisters live well.

    You said, “As has so simply stated BWmust “date out or die” it really is that simple.”

    Indeed. I would mention the other prong: “Mate/date out or die out, or have fatherless children who suffer.”
    _________________________________________________

    Evia,

    Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it.

    You said, “My point here is that if a woman is truly not interested in a male or in reforming him, she doesn’t spend time talking with him. She basically or politely may say “Hi” and “Bye.”

    I agree. I believe that it’s critical that more AA women learn how to cut it short with useless males.

    You said, “Females are attracted to males!! Just because he’s white doesn’t take his MALENESS away. I also notice that SOME bw regularly take pages from the bitter bm’s propaganda book to try hard to de-masculinize wm to other bw. They talk about how wm don’t have swagger, don’t have rhythm like a bm, don’t have as much bass in their voices as bm, aren’t as tall, and many bw still believe the myth that a wm doesn’t know how to give a bw a good “foot rub.” LOL! In my experience, it has been just the opposite. But I’m convinced that all of this is done to reduce the appeal of wm because if not, the average AA man wouldn’t stand a prayer at getting any attention from a typical reasonably attractive AA woman–these days.”

    Yeah, silly BW’s efforts to de-masculinize WM to other BW are very, very peculiar. That silly talk doesn’t hold up to even the most basic questions. Such as:

    1-How would any of these women know what WM were doing in bed if they hadn’t slept with any WM?

    2-How can anybody reasonably generalize something as inherently personal and individualistic as sexual skills to entire races of people?

    3-Why would anybody assume that they can tell what somebody is like in bed from their behavior in the outer world? For example, wasn’t Teddy Pendergrass of the deep bass voice involved in some manner with a transsexual (the one who was a passenger in his car during the accident that caused him to be paralyzed)? Who knows?

    All of this mess is just plain stupid. Too stupid for anybody who’s fully grown.

    You said, “And Khadija, let’s face it, AA women in general need to stop being pc, hiding behind language, hoping that younger bw will be able to read between the lines or read the subtext. I’m happy that black males like Yung Berg are expressing their anti-black female racism because bw need to be punched in the face repeatedly and shocked out of their naivete and magical thinking about the typical AA-type bm. WAY too many AA women keep grasping for crumbs and contorting themselves to appeal to AA men, who in general, are NVs and LVs. So I want AA and similar bm to even be more vocally brutal, so that bw will NEVER forget this point in history how they were thrown under the bus when bm got the chance to trade them in for a brighter-whiter model.”

    ITA. Let the truth be revealed.

    You said, “This is a lesson that bw must NOT forget because when (not “if”) the TEA Party folks and the millions of folks of various groups in this country with “tea party” sentiments about race/ethnic issues get their way, history will repeat itself here in the U.S. and we will see the return of a version of Jim Crow. The part of history that it is of paramount importance for bw to never repeat is the part where they ge suckered by bm again and allow bm to convince them they WE (AA men and women) are all in this together. AA women are NOT in the same situation as AA males because the males must eventually learn to successfully compete with other men in the world for resources or die trying. Meanwhile, all bw HAVE the female card–the most powerful and most desired card in the world–and with a little polishing of it in some cases can therefore, if she chooses–move fluidly throughout the global village, and with very few disadvantages.”

    Again, I agree. And I hope the audience pays CLOSE attention to this part of your comment in particular. Any foolish BW who’s looking for additional government programs to pick up the slack created by the logical, predictable consequences of her bad choice to engage in oow childbearing and single parenting will be S.O.L. And her fatherless children will also be S.O.L.
    ____________________________________________________

    KarenR.,

    Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it.

    You said, “Asian women didn’t doubt that they were in fact worthy, entitled, or deserving of being elevated. I am glad the message is crystal clear here that AA women are equally entitled to the SAME LEVEL of care, elevation, provision and protection as other women. I am glad to see AA women rejecting the “we ‘be striving” mentally in terms of their dating/mating choices, i.e. “He’s got potential” or “I’m just trying to help a brotha’ out.” That is not our job to raise a man. Other women don’t do it, nor should we.”

    That’s right!

    You said, “When I am out and about I see more and more professional-looking AA women and WM couples. when I see them, I think to myself “Yes!” She is not sitting around waiting on an AAM. As this behavior becomes more common-which I think it is-and young AA girls see AA women leading full, happy, satisfied and economically stable lives, the idea of helping `Pookie, Brokell and ‘nem’ won’t even be an issue. It will be as foreign as drinking poison.”

    Yep. Once the numbers of AA women who feel free enough to choose the man who will do the most for them and their future children hit critical mass, then the floodgates will open. At that point, each individual AA woman will basically be in 1 of 2 overall categories: Those who (1) are doing like Asian woman and are freely choosing whichever quality man is best for them—without factoring in race. And (2) “the damned”—AA women who are trapped in Black underclass lifestyles, including oow and single parenting.

    This is why the best thing any of us (who are straight) can do for young AA women and girls is marry quality men and live well. There’s no going back to mass exploitation after you’ve seen other women—who are just like you—live well.

    You said, “I sometimes think women of my generation were still ‘guilted’ (did I make up a word?) into providing never-ending and undying support to the BC and black men. We were taught that it was treasonous to date out. Thankfully, those days are ending.”

    Yes, we were. However, there were some other things going on at the same time. I’ve noticed that over the past 20-25 years, (American) WM have become MUCH more likely to actually approach AA women than they were before. [My impression from having grown up in Chicago is that foreign, ethnic WM who are fresh off the plane (from Europe) generally never had the same taboos about approaching BW. This is the same impression my mother's age group had of "freshly foreign" WM in the late 1950s and early 1960s.]

    (American) WM have always looked at and “noticed” BW. WM looked, but they generally didn’t approach BW during previous generations. This was what I saw at college during the mid-1980s. I recall that there were lots of WM students looking at, grinning at, and “appreciating” {chuckling} many of the AA women students. But, at that time, very few of these same WM students took the next step and actually approached BW to ask them out on dates. From my point of view, this has changed quite a bit in the last 20-25 years.

    You said, “You said in one of your comments upstream that when you removed yourself from all-AA social circles, environments, etc. you began to realize how insane the thinking of most AA’s can be. I can truly relate. Ideas and beliefs that I considered normal even as recently as 5 years ago, are totally foreign to me now.”

    Guurl, I can’t even follow most of these crazy internal AA conversations anymore. AA conversations (online and in real life) tend to be premised on all sorts of strange assumptions that are totally out of touch with most HUMAN norms. Just one example is the notion that total strangers are somehow responsible for chipping in financially to support the oow child somebody else chose to have. This madness was one of several underlying assumptions to the nonsensical statements made by various opponents of the No Wedding, No Womb initiative. That so many AA women actually EXPECT that it should be made convenient for them to outsource their baby daddy’s paternal duties to the public at large is utterly insane! And that’s what all of this talk about “programs” boils down to.

    Expect Success!

    • ak says:

      Khadija:

      For example, wasn’t Teddy Pendergrass of the deep bass voice involved in some manner with a transsexual (the one who was a passenger in his car during the accident that caused him to be paralyzed)? Who knows?

      Yes, yes! My mother said that Teddy Pendergrass WAS the cross-dresser and they they found HIM wearing a skirt, according to the papers probably. Sorry to get off topic here.

    • ak says:

      Khadija:

      However, the above-noted considerations are some of the practical and objective reasons why—from the beginning of human history to now—most human cultures steer their daughters away from fatherless men.

      Bottom line: It’s about a man’s values, culture, and existing skill set.

      This is why the word ‘bastard’ has such bad connotations for a word that just means ‘illegitimate child’ and why families back in history probably didn’t want their daughters to marry men who were illegitimate. Not only could an illegitimate person not inherit anything from his parents as the law made sure that all property after their death went to the legitimate son first, and then maybe the legitimate daughter (if there was no legitimate son), but maybe these people knew that if the father was never in a boy’s life that he wouldn’t know how to be a man and provide for their daughters.

      A man who didn’t grow up with jis father because he died before the man was born might go through the same thing though but without the social stigma.

      • AK,

        You said, “…but maybe these people knew that if the father was never in a boy’s life that he wouldn’t know how to be a man and provide for their daughters.”

        Here’s the thing: Most oh-so-modern Western Black folks forget that we’re not the first human generation.

        It never occurs to us that the overall established human best practice of childrearing in the context formally recognized human pair-bonding (aka marriage) is the result of countless trial and error experiments over thousands of years. Involuntary social experiments in which the single mother and her oow child usually lived in abject poverty and/or died because there was no male officialy responsible for providing for them.

        I’m saying all of this to say that all human societies from cave man times to now—except for modern Western Blacks—understand the inherent deficits with fatherless men. Because they’ve watched fatherless men generally FAIL as protectors and providers. The woman who married the bastard/fatherless man ALSO usually ended up starving and poor with her children. This woman and her children also starved (just like the single unwed mother) and ultimately died because she chose an inept and/or fickle and/or unwilling male to protect and provide. So, over thousands of years, most human cultures learned to steer their daughters away from fatherless men.

        There’s often a difference between the man who’s fatherless because his married mother was a widow, and a man who’s fatherless because his father never bothered to marry his mother. When there’s a marriage the deceased husband’s relatives are much more likely to help pick up the slack for his children after his death. So, there are increased odds that the dead husband’s brothers, uncles, male cousins, etc. will step up and mentor the sons he left behind.

        Meanwhile, a baby daddy’s male relatives usually aren’t thinking two thoughts about his oow seed that he’s spread around. The bottom line: Marriage tends to create a sense of obligation toward the children among each parent’s inlaws. There is generally no sense of obligation felt by baby daddies’/baby mamas’ extended families toward oow children.

        In short, a fatherless man is always an extra risky choice for a marriage-minded woman. The odds are slightly better of him having been mentored into functional manhood (by male relatives) if he’s fatherless because his married father died when he was young (as opposed to him being fatherless because he was born oow).

        Expect Success!

  16. Karen R. says:

    Kinda’ off topic but I NEVER listen to R&B or music stations on the radio but ironically the talk-format AM station that I always listen to experienced some sort of power outage, so just for kicks I tuned in to an urban music station. About 60 seconds after I tuned in he played a song that spoke of a woman who was DONE. It was the first time I ever heard it. When I got to school this morning I hummed a liitle bit of it to a student so she could tell me the name of the song, artist, etc. Tonight I Googled it and found the You Tube video. It is by Faith Evans and the song is Gone Already. Not really a fan, nor am I usually a fan of ‘woe is me-ism’ in music, but I thought the verse that starts at aroud the 1:17 point…”I feel like a dead man walking, numb from all pain you’re causing…
    I thought about this song from the perspective of AA women singing to the the AA collective and letting the BC know that we are DONE.

    • KarenR.,

      I’ve edited out the link to the video clip. Because I haven’t looked at the video clip to ensure that posting it would be consistent with my posting policies. And I have no desire to take the time to watch the clip.

      Personally, I feel that AA women need to STOP talking to the so-called Black community, and STOP announcing our feelings and plans to them. Did Asian women do any of that? Or did they just silently MOVE ON?

      The game of telling folks that one is “done” with them only serves to keep one involved and enmeshed with those folks. By the very act of announcing that one is “done,” one is STILL continuing to interact with them. :-(

      I say, NO. The point is to get away. Not to make any announcement. Don’t tell them nuthin’. Just walk away without a word. Without explanations. Without saying goodbye or anything else. Just walk.

      Expect Success!

      • Karen R. says:

        You said:
        “I say, NO. The point is to get away. Not to make any announcement. Don’t tell them nuthin’. Just walk away without a word. Without explanations. Without saying goodbye or anything else. Just walk.”

        True. WITHOUT equivocation.

        The song seemed to speak to my own struggle between 4th stage of grief (depression) and the 5th stage which is acceptance. AA women should indeed just walk. Don’t waste the energy or the pretty.

      • KarenR.,

        Oh yes, I do understand about the grief stages. I went through them when I realized that that “old-school” AA community of my chilhood was dead and gone. Never to return. (Much like my childhood, all-AA, middle class neighborhood after it was invaded by Section 8 welfare queens and their criminally-inclined children).

        I know that you didn’t mean your comment this way, but far too many AA women get stuck at the venting stage. They are forever telling AA males how tired they are of X,Y, and Z. And endlessly talking about how they are “done.” And creating songs, books, poems, and stage plays all about how they’re “done.” Meanwhile, they’re STILL in the same spot and interacting with the same useless men.

        Like I said, I know this doesn’t describe you; but it does describe many other AA women. I’m just trying to shorten the length of these other Black women’s learning curve. And eliminate the wasted time spent telling the now-dead AA community and AA men that they’re upset, “done,” or anything else.

        Expect Success!

        • IRockIRoll says:

          I’d like to contribute to walk “silently” away. When I “walked” away from a toxic family situation, I actually outright LIED about a situation that had MUCH lower outcome expectations. Basically, I outright LIED about the opportunities that were coming my way. Well, not totally. I had quietly turned down one acceptance, and then took another, without telling anyone. And pretty much until the day that I said, “OMG! Who knew how this worked out?!? Well, gotta take the better option”, no one knew how many cards I had on the table. Folks couldn’t shoot down what they couldn’t see.

          So don’t tell people that “you’re done”. Just don’t go to certain events. Just don’t participate or involve yourself in certain family dramas (or internet dramas). Say you’re busy with something else… BECAUSE YOU SHOULD BE if you’re actively walking away. If you say you’re done, anyone else who is feeling insecure in their situation will try their hardest to make sure that you stay to make themselves feel better.

          I’m going to state right now that these conversations are making a LOT of black women question things right now, and for those who aren’t ready, the easiest remedy is to make sure that someone else stays put WITH them. These ideas are really and truly reaching a critical mass, especially amongst the younger black women 35-, b/c we were told to “ride or die”, and yet only white women and mixed chicks are featured in even the lowest of the low rap videos. We got the Cosby’s growing up, but are of dating and marrying age in the time of YouTube videos denouncing black women. We started with old school hip hop in elementary and middle school, and ended up with SupaMan That H**. The older generation got Apartheid, we got the Jena Six. And as much as some of the younger women are jumping and riding for gangsta stuff… current black culture is trending towards preppy with a twist. They’re seeing the up close and personal lifestyles on reality T.V. that these men are willing to offer women of other races, but not black women (Kendra anyone?). Tikki Barber has come up in several conversations, and… well… obviously even other non-black women of other minorities are not even the prize anymore.

          This online anger is a whole lotta folks getting a wake-up call, and in my OWN personal life, the ones who fought back at me the most about personal changes initially are… doing everything that they initially fought back against me for (I still cut them off, I’m not dealing with that level of damage to my own life). Although I have personally wanted to confront folks, I realized for my own safety and interest, it was best to just “fade out”. If you gotta fight me over common sense, obviously, I need to MOVE ON. I’d recommend the same.

          • tertiaryanna says:

            “If you gotta fight me over common sense, obviously, I need to MOVE ON.”

            I think this is going to be one of my new mottos.

        • IRockIRoll,

          I 100% cosign.

          Expect Success!

  17. squarlymade says:

    Great post (goes without saying) I should say it though.

    I think people are the greatest resource on earth. I really see AAwoman as resources of wealth. I like AAwomen and I’m glad that they can get the information that they need to better themselves.
    Khadija said:
    “Yes, non-Asian men have stereotypes about Asian women. However, Asian women are shrewd enough to work those stereotypes to their individual (and indirectly to their collective) advantage!”
    They’ve taken their geisha and turned it into a sex goddess symbol, their perceived submissiveness and used it as a way to convey themselves as a great option for a wife and mother ect.
    Yep, and look at our stereotypes and how we can work them to our benefit. For the most part white men have started to help us out in doing that. The feed back from them is that they like our commitment (sistah solijah to the death) our strength, our ability to be resilient and not complain, being passionate workers ect, our intellect-they can see we are critical thinkers and not easily swayed by the masses. The guy I’m talking to right now who “only courts” thanked me for correcting him and said he “appreciates my intelligence” And yes they like our ‘looks’…

    Khadija said:
    “Many African-American women worry about nonblack men having a so-called “fetish” with the traits that these men find attractive. Let’s think about this for a moment. We’re actually bothered and offended when a nonblack man finds our West African-derived skin tones, features, and hair textures attractive. Why is it called a “fetish” if a nonblack man is able to appreciate Black women’s beauty?”
    I would like to explore the why of this more. I don’t understand this myself. I think it may be because African American women are uncomfortable with some of our features. Or maybe because it’s such an intense attractions, which can feel uncomfortable. I remember visiting a friend in Carson City Nevada. I was in a store and found myself being followed around by two white men. I kept hearing the one talk to his friend about my looks ( all the common features of AAwomen). He said he’d never “seen one before”. By what he was saying he was very attracted to me, and it did feel weird to be called a “one”. But I wasn’t offended, I knew he was just aw-struck LOL. I want black women to know who are not around white men, that yes they are very attracted to us!
    “ Khadija said:
    “instead of screening, dating, and possibly marrying nonblack men who might have a so-called “fetish” about their undiluted West African features that operates FOR them, many African-American women restrict themselves to dating Black men who have openly-declared fetishes that operate AGAINST them. How crazy is that?”I wonder, why? Is it because African American women think that white men won’t marry them, that bw are not a preference for them? I think that whole train of thought needs to be thrown out unless it is proved on an individual bases. I believe white men want African American women as an available option. I believe they are offended that we haven’t been more available to them. They know they are the planet’s dominate Alfa-men. And their egos tell them they should be able to choose us at will. Many times I believe they are put-off by African American women because they don’t perceive us as being open to them. They see some of us clinging and defending black men and they want that for themselves! LOL. I remember being at a gym working out and I never really spoke to any of the men there who happen to all be white. One day a white man came up and started a conversation with me. As soon as he walked away –voooom-I was swarmed by white men coming over to me- totally bombarded. “What’s your name, how old are you, where do you live?”. I guess they just needed to know I was interested in speaking with them, LOL. Another time I was on campus getting ready to take a proctored test a white man kept trying to get my attention, speaking to people around me saying that he was a professor (not a just a student LOL) and trying to evolve me into the conversation. I was just thinking about the test. When I didn’t respond he went over to one of the black male student and started asking him how he was doing( I guess to show me that he was in support of blacks LOL). But this is the normal response that I get from white American men. Many times they start off in a defensive tone, to approach in a romantic way. I had one wm ask me out this way “I don’t know if this would be inappropriate but would it be okay if I asked you out?” These are dentist, doctors, just wherever you go around town. I will say that European men may approach with more ease and less resentment. I had a man from Estonia ask me out, it’s much nicer when they don’t assume you won’t like them. And you are able to move on more quickly into the relationship without having to dispel that what you really want is a black man. I think with American white men it’s what Evia said on her blog when she referred to black men putting down white men’s masculinity and attractiveness to African American women. Even though I’m nearly surrounded by all white men, and don’t ‘act,talk,dress,ect’ like the acb there is still the stigma of what a lot of bm are running around saying-that bw only want bm. There was a white man at my church who along with his brother owns a million dollar-business in the first year. He went over to African and pick a woman to marry. It wasn’t easy either. The woman’s family kept asking for dowry. He would give it to them, then they would raise the price again. He kept buying them chickens and goats and giving them money, until he was able to marry her. My point is that even those he was attracted to black women, he went to Africa were I guess he knew the women might be more accepting of him as a white man.
    Khadija said:
    “Ladies, remember that African-American women have been alone in letting anything (including ideology) narrow their personal choices. Nobody else does this, including other women of color. Not African women. Not Latina women. Not Asian women. Not Arab women.”
    Can you expand on this. For instance for me, I know there are certain things I have to have in a mate. As with the Eroupean man that asked me out, he was involved in Vipassana Meditation which just didn’t work for me being a Christian.
    Evia said:
    “AA women are NOT in the same situation as AA males because the males must eventually learn to successfully compete with other men in the world for resources or die trying. Meanwhile, all bw HAVE the female card–the most powerful and most desired card in the world–and with a little polishing of it in some cases can therefore, if she chooses–move fluidly throughout the global village, and with very few disadvantages.”
    YEP! I’m glad these black men are distracted by these light skin women, or else I might feel a little bad for getting my white man! What’s more attractive then a man who’s sitting out top of the world? I’m afraid that before the masses of black women ‘get-it’ white women and other non-black women will stop excepting black men for marriage and mating ( because they take their issues with them) and then bm will start strongly pursuing us again.

    • ink says:

      squarlymade, do you mind if I ask you where you live? Because, if all those wm are acting like that where you live that is were I want to be. LOL!

  18. Hodan says:

    Another amazing article Khadija. I agree, marriage is a beautiful union, even if 50% of the people get a divorce, at lease they were married ones. Its in the interest of black women to start thinking of me/myself/I, just follow the example of African women (whether Christian or Muslim) who took a page out 0f their men example to seek quality life partners regardless of race (West and Southern African women are the best example).

    I was raised to value family and many of my friends who are not Muslim have similar upbringing. I agree with you, culture is a powerful practice (sometimes negative like honor killings), but its there to control society’s behavior and regulate men and women’s behavior for the sake of the children. We live in a society where moral relativity is the norm….but that has not stopped white America from valuing marriage over cohabitation, wedded children over unwed motherhood. Hence, why sometimes I would break away from white liberals political correctness and point out to them, these moral passe are not affecting them negatively….its the black community that seems to practice it & pay the high price for it.

  19. Squarlymade,

    Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it.

    You asked if I could expand on this point (that you quoted from my comment): “Ladies, remember that African-American women have been alone in letting anything (including ideology) narrow their personal choices. Nobody else does this, including other women of color. Not African women. Not Latina women. Not Asian women. Not Arab women.”

    Well, this self-defeating mindset is discussed during 2 chapters in the book:

    An Open Letter to African-American Women Who Publicly State That They Would Never Date or Marry Outside Their Race,” and

    Don’t Miss Out on Marriage Because You’re Fighting a Cultural War That Black Men Abandoned Over Forty Years Ago.

    I said,

    One common self-damaging behavior is for an African-American woman to make loud, public pronouncements that she would never date or marry outside the race. This is usually said to emphasize the point that she would never date or marry a White man.

    If you are an African-American woman who makes these sorts of public statements, I would ask you to consider the following questions.

    Why do you feel the need to say this publicly?

    Have you noticed that African-American women are ALONE on this planet in making these sorts of public statements?

    You are alone in terms of race in saying these things. African-American men don’t make these sorts of statements. Look at the numbers of African-American male artists who choose nonblack women as the romantic leads in their music videos. African-American men also don’t restrict their dating and marriage options based on race. Look at African-American men’s higher rates of interracial dating, mating and marriage.

    Why are you publicly narrowing your dating and marriage options when African-American men aren’t doing this?

    Similar to African-American men, women from other ethnic groups also keep their dating and marriage options open. This includes other women of color. No other ethnic group of women on this planet makes public statements that narrow their marriage options. African women don’t make these sorts of public statements. Latina women don’t make these sorts of statements. Neither do Asian nor South Asian women.

    Even those women whose men are actively at war with Western White men, such as Arab women, don’t make these sorts of public statements. If Arab women don’t do this, why in the world are you doing this? Keep in mind the Arab woman is not making these statements even while her Arab man is busy following through on his hostility toward Western White nations. Unlike loud-talking, fake-militant Black men, deranged Arab men are running around killing their perceived White male enemies. And yet, the Arab woman still keeps her collective marriage options as open as possible.

    African-American women are the only people on this planet that run around publicly saying they won’t date or marry outside the race. The fact that nobody else is doing this should be a clue to you that this is not a good idea.

    pgs. 97-98.
    __________________________________________________

    Hodan,

    Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it.

    You said, “I agree, marriage is a beautiful union, even if 50% of the people get a divorce, at lease they were married ones.”

    I’m always annoyed to hear AA slaves who are busy breeding throngs of oow children talk this mess about divorce. What they pretend not to understand is that even in cases of divorce, women and children are automatically protected simply because of the original marriage!

    For just one example, in my jurisdiction, the children born to a woman during the course of a marriage are legally PRESUMED to be her husband’s children. He’s legally presumed to be their father. And it’s on the husband to produce evidence that the child is not his! This means that the husband is automatically assumed to be responsible for the financial support of any children born to his wife during his marriage.

    For women seeking child support, that’s a huge difference. There’s a big difference between a married woman and her children benefiting from the legal presumption that the husband is the father; as opposed to an unmarried woman having a greater risk of being subjected to interrogatories (legal questionnaires) and depositions (being questioned under oath) about the dates and other details of her sexual encounters with the man she claims is her baby daddy.

    In the past, I’ve defended men in oow paternity cases, and have done opposing depositions of unmarried women who had oow babies. I found those proceedings to be extremely unpleasant for everybody involved. I do my best to fulfill my duty to zealously defend my clients. All of them. For me, worst of all with those paternity cases was when I subpoenaed the diaries of those baby mamas’ who kept them—and then had to read through those diaries. Just in case there were references to other alleged sexual partners during the period of the oow child’s conception. {skin crawling at the memory}

    THIS type of experience is what women set themselves up for when they have oow babies, and then try to get child support from an unwilling baby daddy.

    Marriage confers a baseline level of dignified treatment to women involved in various processes, including the mechanics of breaking up (aka divorce) when there are children. There’s nothing dignified about some woman with an oow child having to answer detailed questions about her sexual practices and history in order to have an unwilling man legally found to be her baby daddy. That’s not cute, nice, or liberated. AA slaves need to stop tripping as if they don’t understand the many benefits of legal marriage.

    Expect Success!

    • Robynne says:

      So true! I’m taking family law now and this exactly mirrors the material in my casebook!

    • Zoopath says:

      Subpoenaed diaries??? WTH?? I am just flabbergasted, I had no idea that the court system actually went there. What’s the diary going to have in it that a cheek swab wouldn’t? No, that is not cute, liberated or nice. Why is this the first time I’m hearing about this? None of the NWNW detractors sand the praises of having strangers going all up and through your diary and other private matters.

    • ZooPath,

      {mirthless chuckling at your horrified reaction—yes, women—and the people who love any individual woman including her Daddy, brothers, and other relatives and friends—SHOULD be horrified by these details}

      You said, “Subpoenaed diaries??? WTH?? I am just flabbergasted, I had no idea that the court system actually went there.”

      Why wouldn’t the court system go there? A paternity suit is a lawsuit. Just like any other lawsuit over any other topic.

      You said, “What’s the diary going to have in it that a cheek swab wouldn’t?”

      This gets back to the “paternity suits are lawsuits just like any other lawsuit” reality. In every case (whether it’s criminal or civil), the litigants are entitled to engage in what’s called “discovery.” In basic terms, “discovery” means finding out everything that’s potentially relevant to the topic of the lawsuit. The whole purpose of discovery is so that there won’t be any totally surprise witnesses, testimony, or documentary evidence at any trial. The purpose is to prevent tv-style, trial by ambush situations.

      So, even before any paternity test results are back—and even after the purported results are in—the parties can file questionnaires that have to be answered by the opposing litigant. Part of the questionnaire process is to demand that the opposing party turn over papers or any other documents that might have some bearing on the topic of the lawsuit.

      The parties can also conduct depositions (pre-trial questioning under oath) of opposing parties and their witnesses.

      In my jurisdiction, when the numbers on the paternity test results (referred to as the “combined paternity index”) are greater than a certain number, then there’s a presumption of paternity. [I can't quote the current threshold number because it's been over a decade since I defended a paternity case---the threshold number might have changed since then.]

      However, be that as it may, the unwilling man is still entitled to a trial process and the benefit of all the mechanics involved in a trial. Which means that he’s entitled to engage in “discovery.”

      A paternity suit is a lawsuit like any other lawsuit. In any lawsuit, the lawyers are going to spend a LOT of time and energy finding out ALL the specific details involved in the topic of the lawsuit.

      So, to put it in blunt terms, when a baby mama wants to have legal responsibilities IMPOSED on an unwilling potential baby daddy, then detailed information about the following circumstances surrounding the birth of that oow child becomes relevant:

      1-Who else the baby mama was screwing during the period of conception;

      2-Her stated (or not) use of birth control during the period of conception;

      3-The frequency of the sex she claims she had with the unwilling alleged baby daddy during the period of conception;

      4(a)-What she told other people (if anything) about other men who might also potentially be her oow child’s biological father;

      4(b)-What she might have said in her own diaries/journals about other men who might also potentially be her oow child’s biological father;

      5-And other unsavory topics concerning the baby mama’s activities during the period of conception (criminal activities such as prostitution? drug use? party-hearty-ing?).

      You said, “No, that is not cute, liberated or nice.”

      NO, it’s not. It’s all quite degrading. But them’s the breaks when a woman chooses to give birth OUTSIDE the protections of marriage.

      You said, “Why is this the first time I’m hearing about this? None of the NWNW detractors sand the praises of having strangers going all up and through your diary and other private matters.”

      I can think of several reasons, including:

      1-Dishonesty. From what I’ve seen, the NWNW detractors are fundamentally dishonest. Anybody who’s pretending not to know that there are almost uniformly negative consequences to oow is a LIAR.

      2-Embarassment. How many women are going to talk about the nitty-gritty details of being put through some mess like what I described above?

      3-Luck. Some baby mamas are lucky in that their baby daddies never show up to court to quibble about the proceedings. So court orders are entered without his participation or active resistance. Or they’re lucky in that their baby daddy has a lawyer that isn’t all that diligent or thorough.

      **Addendum**

      And let me add that it’s usually the most naive women who are most emotionally battered by the court experience of having legal fatherhood imposed on an unwilling AA Negro male. Dishonest women generally don’t document their lies in diaries or journals. Or they’ll lie and claim not to write any diaries at all when they do keep diaries.

      I’m thinking back to this one pathetic plaintiff whose diary was filled with pleas to Jesus to make the unwilling AA Negro male care about their baby…{skin crawling at the memory}

      [And from what I saw while doing rotations in the local paternity/child support courtrooms, it was mostly AA Negro males who wanted to fight the hardest to try to escape legal responsibility for their children. Including the AA males who were shacked up with their baby mama before, during and after the pregnancy in question.

      In fact, I had one AA Negro male client who apparently, *cough* allegedly *cough* paid some other AA Negro male to take the paternity test for him. So then I had to defend him against a criminal contempt of court charge. During the trial of this new charge, I ended up doing an extensive cross examination of the Chicago Police Department fingerprint analyst who examined the fingerprints and photos taken of the man, err...the male client...*cough* who had showed up at the lab for the paternity test. That particular client was found not guilty of criminal contempt of court.

      Men from other ethnic groups were much more likely to happily claim their children. Many Mexican men didn't want a paternity test when it was offered to them. In general, something had to be really wrong with a Mexican woman for the man to accept having a paternity test done. With White men it was 50/50, it could go either way in terms of them asking for a paternity test. Unlike so many AA Negro males, they usually stopped resisting being legally found to be the biological father after the test results were in.]

      Expect Success!

      • Hodan says:

        wow, I was planning to be a family lawyer (my friend who is one told me hell NO because she’s getting out of it). She said family court is draining, dehumanizing and pays like $hit.

        these stories you are telling us are horrific. I wonder what is wrong with bw who keep having babies with these damaged and pathetic black men. Man, I’m amazed you did not come out of all these stories with a heart of stone and rage against men…black ones in particular.

        • Hodan,

          Well, some of the AA women involved were also foul:

          1-What some AA women do is name the man they wish was the biological father. They pick the “nicest” one out of all the men they were screwing when they got pregnant.

          2-Then there are the women who knowingly run around with married men. These women mistakenly think a pregnancy is going to help them “snag” the cheating married man, and replace the current wife.

          I can’t stand people who would knowingly help sabotage a family unit. Let me be clear. I’m NOT saying that the woman (or man) on the side is responsible for some man’s choice to not uphold his marriage vows. The promises were exchanged by the 2 people in the marriage, and not anybody else. However, I DON’T have any sympathy whatsoever for somebody who tries to build their dream relationship on somebody else’s suffering.

          Another thing about these Side Piece of A** Women Who Aspired to Be Wife #2 is that many of them would harass and stalk the wife after the AA Negro male refused to get a divorce. This is the pattern for women in romantic triangles. Instead of going after the man who lied to them or cheated on them, they want to attack the other woman in the triangle. Meanwhile, when men find themselves cheated on, they typically attack the woman who cheated on them.

          Anyhoo, I can’t stand Side Piece of A** Women Who Aspire to Be Wife #2. I went above and beyond my normal work-related efforts to put these type of women through some EXTRA changes in court just on general principle. Especially the ones who were harassing the client’s wife.

          I’m thinking of this one colored girl who was stalking the client’s wife at her job AND the client’s elderly parents. This is a woman who deliberately named their oow son “John Doe II.” Knowing that the client already had a son with his wife named “John Doe II.”

          3-Then you have the women who spitefully withold visitation from the very small number of AA Negro male baby daddies who are actually somewhat interested in maintaining regular contact with their children. [They do this because it's often the last club they can use to strike back at the baby daddy who used them and discarded them.]

          I did a deposition of one such woman just so I could legitimately tell her to her face (while questioning her) that, “Do you understand that visitation is NOT intended to function as pay-per-view?! Wouldn’t you agree that the money issue is separate and distinct from your children’s need to have a father in their lives?”

          It’s all FOUL, FOUL, FOUL.

          Expect Success!

      • mochachoc says:

        YUCK!!!

        Black women need to stop behaving the fool.

        I have a white friend who had an acrimonious divorce. Her ex white husband paid for the very expensive house in an affluent part of London and private school fees for their girls and he got off lightly.

        I remember years ago she commented that she thought a white man would be preferable for me. At the time I felt offended (believe me I’ve moved on from that foolishness). Today she revealed she said that because she wanted the best for me. She said Black men look sexy and may be great dates but aren’t very dependable. I’m not sure if it was you or Evia who said other people can see what Black men are about but its true. People are witnesses. So why aren’t the masses of Black women? Why in the world are we walking around in a fantasy land?

        • Mochachoc,

          “Yuck” is right. It’s all FOUL, FOUL, FOUL.

          You said, “I’m not sure if it was you or Evia who said other people can see what Black men are about but its true. People are witnesses. So why aren’t the masses of Black women? Why in the world are we walking around in a fantasy land?”

          You’re probably thinking of something Evia said. :-) It’s true—everybody else can clearly see what Black folks are doing. To answer your question, BW also see it too. It’s just that most of us are in a state of deliberate denial.

          Acknowledging the overall pattern of what’s happening would require BW to change what they’re doing. It would more or less require BW to stop engaging in the “nuthin’ but a BM”-business as usual. Walking away from “the devils we know” and out into uncharted avenues is just too scary for most of us. So we pretend that things aren’t as bad as they are within the radioactive, all-Black circles. Alternatively, we pretend that other women are living just as bad as so many Western BW. Even though we know they’re NOT.

          Expect Success!

      • ak says:

        Khadija you must be very strong and the most professional of all professionals to be able to not let any disgust or contempt get in the way of your work and ‘cloud’ your work.

        • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

          @Khadija,

          I think you are definitely wise and empathetic above the norm. I would be so “changed” and probably not in a good way of I dealt with all you described.

          I knew some things, but I just keep getting these glimpses into how low people can/will stoop. I don’t understand how someone can plot and plan and put so much energy into things that are so destructive.

          • Oshun/Aphrodite,

            Thank you for your kind words; I truly appreciate it.

            You said, “I knew some things, but I just keep getting these glimpses into how low people can/will stoop. I don’t understand how someone can plot and plan and put so much energy into things that are so destructive.”

            Unfortunately, there is NO bottom to the pit of human self-absorption, evil and depravity. This is why it’s so critical for BW to learn to be self-protective and look out for their own interests.

            Expect Success!

      • AK,

        Thank you for your kind words; I truly appreciate it.

        Oh, I’m not all that “strong.” [Remember, The Strong Black Woman is dead! :-) ] It’s more a matter of being committed to the following idea: Each society can have either 1 of 2 ways of dealing with disputes, crimes, and disturbances.

        1-A society can have a reasonably orderly PROCESS that tries to safeguard rights for everybody—including foul people who deserve to have their a**es beat (or worse); OR

        2-A society can have various types of TOTALLY arbitrary and capricious lynch mobs, including lynch mobs that masquerade as courts. Such as military courts where a soldier decides the fates of civilians. Such as the fake courts that operate in dictatorships. Such as the fake courts in the South during Jim Crow. Such as the fake courts during the apartheid regime in South Africa.

        And then there’s the traditional, straight-up, no pretense, “the funk-uncut” lynch mob where private citizens/vigilantes act as judge, jury and executioners. Vigilante/death squad “justice” is only okay for those who are the vigilantes/death squad members. It’s okay for those who get to pick who dies; but it’s not okay for everybody else. And “everybody else” is usually composed of the weaker members of a society.

        Realistically, there’s no in-between position. Without an orderly process that more or less works the same for everybody—including the people who don’t deserve any consideration whatsoever—any society quickly descends into lynch-mob methods of resolving all issues and disputes.

        I prefer to have an orderly, semi-fair PROCESS in place. And I’m willing to help safeguard the continued existence of that semi-fair process by doing what I can to ensure that each defendant’s rights are honored by those in power such as prosecutors and judges. For me, defense work has never really been about the clients. I’m more interested in protecting the existence of an orderly, semi-fair process.

        Expect Success!

  20. tertiaryanna says:

    “What they pretend not to understand is that even in cases of divorce, women and children are automatically protected simply because of the original marriage!”

    In addition to the presumption of legal fatherhood you mentioned, there’s also the assistance that an in-home father provides to a mother. During those early childhood months, when a new mother is still adjusting to the physical demands of childbirth, having a reliable and willing partner in the home is so important. There’s the additional set of hands that helps the mother, rather than having the mom have to worry or chase down a man that doesn’t want to be involved. That’s less stress on the mother, during a vulnerable time for her.

    Also, excessive stress on the mother is also bad for the child, especially during pregnancy. Stress alone, independently of anxiety and depression, can predispose the child to anxiety, behavioral issues and also lower IQ. The papers that address this specifically mention the mother’s relationship stress as a negative influence on prenatal and early childhood development.

    For the child, having both parents increases the chances that the kid is having the appropriate amount of interaction and attention that she needs during those early developmental stages. A lot of brain development occurs during the first few years of childhood, and it’s helped by interacting with other people, like when parents hold, speak and read directly to a child. So even if the parents split up at the common timeline (about 7 years), the child has still benefited from the time the home was intact, just because of this extra attention.

    • Tertiaryanna,

      You said, “In addition to the presumption of legal fatherhood you mentioned, there’s also the assistance that an in-home father provides to a mother. During those early childhood months, when a new mother is still adjusting to the physical demands of childbirth, having a reliable and willing partner in the home is so important. There’s the additional set of hands that helps the mother, rather than having the mom have to worry or chase down a man that doesn’t want to be involved. That’s less stress on the mother, during a vulnerable time for her.”

      Respectfully, I think the approach you’re taking during this comment in making a point about the value of marriage is a mistake. There’s a NWNW blogger currently making what I believe is the same mistake: Trying to talk to NWNW detractors as if they are reasonable, good faith conversation partners who will respond to reason.

      NO, they won’t respond to reason. And one puts oneself at a disadvantage when one tries to be reasonable with these sorts of dishonest hecklers. The Baby Mama Mafia members, Self-Proclaimed Gay and Lesbian Rights Derailers, and the other fools who are NWNW detractors are NOT having these conversations in good faith. Instead, they’re playing dumb and pretending not to understand basic human reality. Pretending not to understand that marriage is the time-tested, best HUMAN practice for childrearing.

      Does anybody really believe that the NWNW detractors are so sincerely stupid that they genuinely don’t know that children generally do better when raised by married co-parents? That they genuinely don’t know about the all the long-documented negatives attached to oow and single parenting? This reminds me of the type of dishonest, self-serving bs I hear from dope fiend baby mama clients after they start doing 12-step programs:

      Dope Fiend Baby Mama Client: “I’m learning a lot in the program. I didn’t know the harm I was doing to my babies before.”

      Me: “What—did you think it was healthy and nutritious for your babies for you to use drugs while you were pregnant with them? Is THAT what you’re saying?”

      Client: “Uh…no…I didn’t mean it like that.”

      Me: “Then what in the world are you talking about when you say you ‘didn’t know the harm you were doing to your babies’? Wouldn’t it be more honest to say that you just DIDN’T CARE at the time?”

      Client:“Uh…I guess so…”

      Well, to my ears it’s the same with the bs spouted by NWNW detractors. It’s just so stupid and dishonest that I can’t even entertain that mess.

      One danger with entertaining bs is that the bs-artist will flip the bs all around to put the honest-but-naive conversation partner at a disadvantage.

      Tertiaryanna, in the case of the example that you gave:

      You do realize that dishonest NWNW detractors will argue that a shacked-up, live-in, unmarried baby daddy can and sometimes will (in Fairy Land, where the unicorns also live) do the things that you mention in your comment? They’ll say that a biological father doesn’t need a marriage license to be an in-home father who provides hands-on assistance to the baby mama. They’ll say this even though they know this is NOT how this scenario generally plays out in real life. They’ll say that a marriage license doesn’t guarantee that a married father will provide in-home hands-on assistance. They’ll twist your whole statement around in order to support their dishonest agenda.

      All of the above is why I’m zeroing in on the concrete benefits that automatically come into play when there’s a legal marriage.

      These NWNW detractors aren’t stupid. They’re dishonest. And their motives are as Evia described them during a recent comment at Halima’s blog:

      Halima, virtually all of the confusion among bw regarding this issue and many others is due to bw contorting themselves to accommodate the damaged thinking and behavior of bm. If AA men became cannibals, a large share of AA women would become cannibals too. It wouldn’t take long.

      Since the bulk of black males in the West have adopted the thinking and behaviors that are out of sync with the norms of most cultures, societies and groups in the world, black women suicidally adjust their thinking and behavior to follow suit. This is THE pattern of behavior of the masses of bw.

      For ex. I cannot imagine more than a handful (if even that many) of bw arguing that it’s fine for them to have massive numbers of children OOW by white men or Asian men. LOL! They would NEVER do that. It’s only because they’re having these children by black males who won’t marry them and assume the role of men and responsible fathers, that these women are making this foolish argument.

      I’ve noticed these patterns where the black male is the common denominator:

      1. Since it’s the norm for the bulk of AA women of the lower socioeconomic demographic these days allow AA males to convince them that marriage is not necessary and/or allow these males to dictate the terms of the interaction or relationship, bw in general end up doing exactly what bm want (no matter how self-destructive) IF they are to have an ongoing interaction or relationship with a typical AA male. He makes her understand that this is simply the price that she has to pay for that “relationship.”

      2. SOME bw are losing interest in or tamping down their pursuit of higher education because that’s what they have to do to remain around the bulk of bm and/or remain non-threatening and non-”bougie” to large numbers of AA males/men for sure. This is the same as some black students letting their grades drop so that they won’t be accused of “acting white” which makes it tougher or virtually impossible for them to be accepted by the ABCs. This is the price they must pay.

      3. Many younger bw (some from working class/middle class) are now going to prison at much higher rates these days BECAUSE they are engaging in “relationships” with criminally oriented bm. These women end up as unwitting accomplices or also engaging in criminal behavior since this is the boyfriend’s lifestyle. This is the price she has to pay to keep him.

      And let’s be real about this. There is only a relative small proportion of younger AA men, for sure, who don’t fit one or more of the profiles above. Many of the bm who are in the relative small portion of “good” “normal” upwardly mobile bm who don’t, do not want/choose a typical bw unless she has looks, hair, makeup, clothes, mannerisms, etc.) that resembles Beyonce’s or Halle’s or some other deified woman.

      None of this would be so bad IF it could be kept contained among the lower demographic (since ALL groups have a lower demographic), but among AAs, this self-destructive mindset and behavior continues to creep up and up into the middle class black girl or bw’s thinking and behavior. Why? It’s because so many AA women and bw of that type have been programmed for centuries to be self-sacrificing for non-reciprocating, hateful bm.

      Errant bm’s thinking and behavior really need a highly publicized chop-down by powerful men. As long as these DBRbm of all socioeconomic levels are allowed to reign supreme in their damaged thinking and behavior, more and more bw are going to adjust and accommodate themselves to fit into the damage. Or until bw can radically alter this chokehold programming, nothing much can change.

      http://dateawhiteguy.blogspot.com/2010/10/what-would-white-feminsists-do.html

      Evia’s absolutely correct about the motives involved in all this FAKE “confusion” surrounding the negative consequences of oow and single parenting that results from oow.

      Expect Success!

      • Zoopath says:

        Wow, it would have taken me a minute to realize that Tertiaryanna’s point could be flipped around to allow for more magical thinking. You really are a lawyer, Khadija, aren’t you :) I agree with your larger point that trying to talk sense to ethically insane people is unprodcutive to say the least. One of the most useful things to figure out quickly in any situation is whether or not you’re dealing with an enemy (which most ethically insane people tend to be) and respond to them accordingly.

        • ZooPath,

          Guurl, I’ve heard enough bad-faith bs at work to last me a lifetime and a half!

          You said, “I agree with your larger point that trying to talk sense to ethically insane people is unprodcutive to say the least. One of the most useful things to figure out quickly in any situation is whether or not you’re dealing with an enemy (which most ethically insane people tend to be) and respond to them accordingly.”

          Exactly!

          Expect Success!

      • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

        I have just been lurking again.

        “You do realize that dishonest NWNW detractors will argue that a shacked-up, live-in, unmarried baby daddy can and sometimes will (in Fairy Land, where the unicorns also live) do the things that you mention in your comment? They’ll say that a biological father doesn’t need a marriage license to be an in-home father who provides hands-on assistance to the baby mama. They’ll say this even though they know this is NOT how this scenario generally plays out in real life.”

        There is a woman who was shacked up and I can recall 2 incidents in the past year where she staunchly defended her decision – not that anyone ever attacked her directly- only the concept of having a family via co-habitation.

        Well her co-habiting male partner died recently. They have two young children together. A three year old and a one year old.

        The guy had an ok job, but now she is begging for money to bury this man and take care of other expenses as she didn’t work and I can only assume that they are now in some kind of financial storm.

        • Oshun/Aphrodite,

          You said, “The guy had an ok job, but now she is begging for money to bury this man and take care of other expenses as she didn’t work and I can only assume that they are now in some kind of financial storm.”

          But of course she and her oow babies are now in the middle of a financial sh*tstorm. That’s exactly what she set herself AND her babies up for when she decided to shack and have oow.

          Too bad, so sad. Reality does not wait for anybody to purchase a clue before it starts impacting their life. I hope the other women and young girls in her orbit are taking careful notes about how this woman foolishly put herself AND her babies in a vulnerable spot by shacking and oow.

          Expect Success!

          • Magenta says:

            I can’t even keep count of all the OOW horror stories that involve a woman (and her children) being left in financial ruin after her live in baby daddy dies unexpectedly.

            You have already covered how an OOW mother has to “prove” that the baby daddy really is the father during CS proceedings. The same applies for death benefits. The baby mama usually gets a very rude awakening that she or her children are not entitled to anything and that any retirement, pension, insurance will most likely go to her deceased baby daddy’s next of kin (his mother, sister, etc).

            I have always found it peculiar that OOW proponents do not talk about these stories. I guess like you say, they are too embarrassed to do so.

            It has also been a suspicion of mine that the reason why so many BW get caught up in “Kemba Smith” situations is because they do not have the protections that spousal privilege provides. Look at all the WW wives of serial killers who have NEVER been to jail. Look at all the mob wives who got off scott free. Yet it seems the girlfriends and baby mamas of drug dealers are always getting caught up?

            I have been so furious with NWNW opponents. They know good and well that marriage provides a host of protections when it comes to inheritance, property rights, spousal privilege, etc.

          • Magenta,

            You said, “You have already covered how an OOW mother has to “prove” that the baby daddy really is the father during CS proceedings. The same applies for death benefits. The baby mama usually gets a very rude awakening that she or her children are not entitled to anything and that any retirement, pension, insurance will most likely go to her deceased baby daddy’s next of kin (his mother, sister, etc).”

            I’ve never directly dealt with death benefits, but I would expect them to operate as you described—the unwed baby mama has a much harder way to go (than a wife does) to get her hands on the dead baby daddy’s benefit money. [Although, whenever this topic comes up over there, our not-favorite troll over at What About Our Daughters always claims to know of all these exceptions to this overall pattern...lying troll-heifer... but I digress...]{I’m still having to resist the urge to do a post dedicated to blasting her in particular}

            You said, “It has also been a suspicion of mine that the reason why so many BW get caught up in “Kemba Smith” situations is because they do not have the protections that spousal privilege provides. Look at all the WW wives of serial killers who have NEVER been to jail. Look at all the mob wives who got off scott free. Yet it seems the girlfriends and baby mamas of drug dealers are always getting caught up?”

            Now, that’s a very good point that has never occurred to me before. I would guess that it’s a combination of marital privilege AND WM’s basic orientation to function as THE Main/Sole Breadwinner for their families.

            From what I’ve observed of serious WM criminals (WM who are busy being Mr. Crystal Meth Man and Mr. Oxycontin Dealer), it appears that they carry over this same “I’M the main breadwinner” mentality to their criminal activities.

            So, from what I can tell, these WM criminals are less likely to have their women heavily participating in their criminal activities. Unlike AA Negro males who expect BW to do heavy lifting in general, and to be heavily involved in being the breadwinner for the couple/family unit. All of which puts the foolish, mulish BW at greater risk when she’s involved with a BM criminal.

            You said, “I have been so furious with NWNW opponents. They know good and well that marriage provides a host of protections when it comes to inheritance, property rights, spousal privilege, etc.”

            I hear you. They either play dumb and pretend not to be aware of these realities; or lie and claim to know of so many exceptions to the rules. It’s outrageous. Now, I expected the Baby Mama Mafia to be shrill in their self-justifications of their own oow mess. But as the NWNW organizer and others have stated, NWNW isn’t about those women who’ve already messed up and had oow. It’s about showing young AA women and girls a better way. A better way that will prevent them from having to surrender their life dreams.

            What I find sickening is that these grown-a**, crabs in a barrel, baby mamas are willing and eager to see young BW and girls fall into the same traps that they fell into! So, they deliberately cloud the issue and spread all these lies about how the real world operates. All the while KNOWING that young BW and girls are reading these conversations online. That’s downright EVIL. :-( And I firmly believe that these lying heifers are going to have to answer for that in the afterlife.

            Expect Success!

          • Robynne says:

            True – and if the man died intestate (without a will), all his property will revert to his blood relatives. So right off the bat she ain’t getting nothing (unless she lives in one of the 12 (or 4?) states where common law marriage is recognized, and even then, there is no guarantee because you have to meet a whole bunch of requirements to qualify…) Since he was not married to the mother, there is no legal presumption that he is the father of the children. If the elements establishing paternity aren’t apparent, callous relatives of the man who do not care for the children could plausibly fight the devolution of property to children on the basis that he was not really the father. It’s just a real mess. Seriously, people – especially bw – really need to start thinking. Women of other groups seem to understand this pretty well.

          • Robynne says:

            Lol, sorry, I did not read Magenta’s comment before I posted. What she stated is essentially what I said. Yes, if the baby mamma was married, his property upon death would revert to her. Even if he had a will cutting her off completely, every single state has in place laws guaranteeing such wives dower or an elective share (usually one-third of the deceased spouse’s estate), so no matter what she won’t be completely cut off. This is yet another benefit of marriage that the NWNW opponents gaily ignore.

          • Robynne,

            Thanks for providing details about how inheritance works!

            You said, “Since he was not married to the mother, there is no legal presumption that he is the father of the children. If the elements establishing paternity aren’t apparent, callous relatives of the man who do not care for the children could plausibly fight the devolution of property to children on the basis that he was not really the father. It’s just a real mess. Seriously, people – especially bw – really need to start thinking. Women of other groups seem to understand this pretty well.”

            Well, that’s my bottom line. I want more BW to get a clue; like women from every other group have a clue. And starting protecting their own—and their future children’s—interests. Instead of continuing to play Boo-Boo The Fool/Grasshopper.

            Expect Success!

        • And that’s where the stupid comes in. As a widow she would be entitled to collect his Social Security when she reaches retirement age. This is where white women make out like a bandit–they work less than any other group, and live longer. And because they marry they collect Social Security at the significantly higher male rate instead of the peanuts women usually earn. Her children are also entitled to survivor’s benefits. This would be automatic had she been married, now she has to prove paternity.

          • Roslyn,

            You said, “And that’s where the stupid comes in. As a widow she would be entitled to collect his Social Security when she reaches retirement age. This is where white women make out like a bandit–they work less than any other group, and live longer. And because they marry they collect Social Security at the significantly higher male rate instead of the peanuts women usually earn.”

            Exactly! Overall, WW work LESS…live LONGER…and live BETTER…all because they choose a better caliber of men and they choose a better caliber of relationship (marriage and legitimate children instead of shacking and oow).

            BW: Get a clue!

            Expect Success!

          • Lisa99 says:

            More to add to that… from what I remember, you only had to have been married to the man for 10 years to qualify for said benefits.

            So, I could marry a man with a reasonable income and he could divorce me on the first day after our 10th anniversary and I would STILL be entitled to social security in my retirement based on HIS earnings.

            I am getting married soon and even though I do okay for myself, my future husband makes almost 50% more than I do! So if we stay married for just 10 years (although I’m hoping for a lifetime, of course), then I’m guaranteed to be much better off financially in my retirement than I would be alone.

            THIS needs to be the answer to the folks who say, “Well, since 50% of all couples divorce, you have a good chance of being a single mother anyway.” First, the 50% rate has never been proven accurate (that’s a topic for another thread), but even if I do divorce, I’m still much better off (financially and legally) as a divorced single mother than I am as a never married mother of OOW children.

      • tertiaryanna says:

        “These NWNW detractors aren’t stupid. They’re dishonest.”

        I can sincerely say that I hadn’t thought of that. I get so angry about this issue that I have a hard time talking about it, or knowing when to back out of a useless argument over it.

        I think that deep down, I still had this idea that if people could just hear reason, they’d understand. But that’s a childish fantasy, and you’re right that it’s time diverted from actually reaching goals.

        • Tertiaryanna,

          You said, “I think that deep down, I still had this idea that if people could just hear reason, they’d understand. But that’s a childish fantasy, and you’re right that it’s time diverted from actually reaching goals.”

          I wouldn’t call it a “childish fantasy.” It’s more about being a normal, reasonable person who’s used to interacting with other normal, reasonable people. There’s nothing wrong with being a normal, reasonable person.

          The problem is when a normal person is interacting with a BS Artist. All the behavioral norms that serve normal people well when dealing with other normal people (“be reasonable, be considerate, be polite, assume that the other person is sincerely mistaken if they’re saying something off-kilter, etc.”) are huge liabilities when interacting with BS Artists.

          I’ve simply been overexposed to BS Artists and their self-serving, verbal con games at work. So, over time, I’ve learned another set of “norms” to use when dealing with BS Artists (“assume the BS Artist is deliberately telling lies; assume they’re looking to use your sense of decorum and politeness against you; assume that they’re going to pretend that exceptions erase the rules; assume that they’re going to play dumb; assume that they’re going to try to twist your words, etc.”).

          The BS Artists are what they are…

          Expect Success!

    • “In addition to the presumption of legal fatherhood you mentioned, there’s also the assistance that an in-home father provides to a mother. During those early childhood months, when a new mother is still adjusting to the physical demands of childbirth, having a reliable and willing partner in the home is so important. There’s the additional set of hands that helps the mother, rather than having the mom have to worry or chase down a man that doesn’t want to be involved. That’s less stress on the mother, during a vulnerable time for her.”

      I can attest to this. My mother went through all of this right after I was born except the part that involves chasing after the father. She has talked about how hard it was and how stressed she was but I don’t think I really got it until right now. And this was with her not having to work for a year due to savings.

      Thinking about my mom going through all that by herself with all her family on the other side of the world makes me want to cry.

      I just want to thank Khadija and all the commentators on here because all of you, through your thoughtful comments and posts, have helped me realized that a lot (though definitely not all) of the issues I have with childbearing/parenthood are due to what I experienced as a child and are not human norms. Talking with my college friends (most of whom are the children on black immigrants and grew up in two-parent homes) also reminded me how much of an anomaly my childhood was.

    • Truth P. says:

      I’m just realizing that my upbringing was so different from so many of my own relatives.

      @terti I agree with this :”In addition to the presumption of legal fatherhood you mentioned, there’s also the assistance that an in-home father provides to a mother. During those early childhood months, when a new mother is still adjusting to the physical demands of childbirth, having a reliable and willing partner in the home is so important. There’s the additional set of hands that helps the mother, rather than having the mom have to worry or chase down a man that doesn’t want to be involved. That’s less stress on the mother, during a vulnerable time for her.”

      @Terti My mom was one of those women who had cesarean sections and was really really bad off afterwards.She was put on bed rest and told to lie flat on her back so she couldn’t even hold my younger siblings after they were born.She had to use the restroom in a bed pan.My mom was one of a few wives living in a working class poor community/ghetto who was a stay at home mother.My father worked a regular job and sometimes did work under the table to provide.My dads work was very physical,we live in a factory town, but when he got off work he came straight home to help my mom.When he was at work my mom had help from me,both my grannies, her sisters, and her sister in laws.I almost knew down to the exact minute when my dad would walk through the door,5:15-17pm.His job was’nt far from home so he walked.

      I can tell you that my father was raised by his father and that my dads mother was also a stay at home wife and mother.My father never cashed any of his own paychecks he bought them home to my mom and it was the same for my grandparents.Some of my relatives never had that life.Some of them were just baby mommas and they couldn’t understand why my dad was with us and their baby fathers weren’t with them and their kids.
      I KNOW that some of them were jealous because I recall a second cousin of mine asking my father out to the bar for a drink and he couldn’t because he’d given my mom his whole paycheck to pay the bills my cousin started saying how that was HIS money and he should keep something for himself so he could go for a drink every now and again.HATER!
      This cousin was a FEMALE,she’d grown up with my father and mother, who had six kids by 1 man who was in but most of the time out of her and her kids lives and NEVER paid ANY child support.Not even until this day and her oldest child is about 30 now.

      After she bled the government,her poor old parents and anybody else that would help her with her kids dry,and after all her kids were adults and out of her house,and after her babies father had numerous run ins with the law and all his other women put him out because he didn’t provide at all,she and her baby father finally got married, very recently.Aint that sweet.

      I also must mention that my parents are no longer together however,as Khadija has said,my fathers ENTIRE side of the family is there still helping us.I am currently employed by my aunt,my dads sister,and I also have to say that all my uncles,including my uncles that married into the family through my dads sisters,have done many things to help my brother since my parents divorce.Also we are entitled to everything my father and mother has.My father started working real young and has worked since and when he dies we’ll get the life insurance.I was the only one out of 6 that wasn’t born inside marriage.

  21. pioneervalleywoman says:

    Zoopath:

    Why is this the first time I’m hearing about this? None of the NWNW detractors sing (?) the praises of having strangers going all up and through your diary and other private matters.

    My reply:

    Ah yes, I have taught this in my women’s history class. Read the Uniform Parentage Act–it is easy to find on the web. It explains all Khadija is talking about. A father is a man married to a woman who has given birth or a single man who has acknowledged paternity. The cases Khadija is talking about fits in here. If a woman is a baby-mama, she can only put in the father’s name if he agrees to it. So what happens when he refuses to? Thus, the litigation.

    If no daddy’s is named, he is an “unknown.” Is that how the baby mamas want their children to go throughout life, the first official document that records the birth lists the father as “unknown”????? Think of who sees that document–schools, passport agencies and so forth–what are they going to think of in looking at you–having a baby by an “unknown…?” He could be any random dude anywhere…

    The baby mamas really need to stop tripping….

  22. Energize says:

    Hi Khadija you said, “Personally, I feel that AA women need to STOP talking to the so-called Black community, and STOP announcing our feelings and plans to them.” —————————- I used to do this all the time. Talk, talk, talk until i realized people respect ACTION more than talk. ——————————– “The game of telling folks that one is “done” with them only serves to keep one involved and enmeshed with those folks. By the very act of announcing that one is “done,” one is STILL continuing to interact with them. I say, NO. The point is to get away. Not to make any announcement. Don’t tell them nuthin’. Just walk away without a word. Without explanations. Without saying goodbye or anything else. Just walk” ———————————-
    These are such a powerful statements. Reminded me of the biblical story Sodom and Gomorrah. The town (community) had become so corrupt that God told Lot to pack up his family and leave because he was going to destroy it. Lot told his wife DO NOT look back (just walk). She died looking back.
    Also, here is a website I read about that future entrepreneurs may want to check out to get some cash flowing. I haven’t been able to try it just yet, but will soon! http://www.devhub.com/
    onward! forward!

    • Energize,

      Funny you should mention Lot and his wife. :-) That came up during a post at the previous blog (that’s now a chapter in the book–The Last Embers Of A Dying Flame: Will You Make It Out Before Darkness Falls?). Where I mentioned,

      Various Black women empowerment bloggers have given clear warnings about what’s coming. Those who have the courage to acknowledge reality can see for themselves that the emerging Endless Night of Permanent Underclass Status is almost upon African-Americans. We’ve been watching the last embers of a dying flame before it finally flickers out.

      Some of us have already used what’s left of the light to flee to other places where the light still shines brightly. To places where there is still warmth. With halting, hesitant steps, some of us are still making our way out of the African-American Social Anarchy and Chaos Zones while the light still flickers. Such people need to pick up their pace. Unfortunately, most of us are still aimlessly chattering about trivial things. Or chattering about saving other, less fortunate people when we are still in a precarious position. Such people are already dead. They just don’t know it yet.

      That FINAL moment of weak, flickering light before complete darkness is now upon us.

      The campfires and hearths that our ancestors kept burning, the cultural warmth that protected us from madness, violence and depravity, are about to go out. For the last time. They won’t be reignited.

      African-American residential and social dungeons are already terrible, deadly places. And this is with the dying embers still giving off a bit of light and warmth. When the fire dies, the resulting frozen, dark vacuum will destroy all who remain within.

      . . . The reality is that, unlike most African-American males, African-American women have the ability AND the resources to walk away into healthier environments. We just have to get up and leave. It’s that simple. At least it’s that simple while the last ember is still burning. It’s simple while that last bit of light is still flickering.

      Stop Looking Back At “Sodom”

      . . . I would strongly urge you to STOP looking back at “Sodom.”

       Don’t look back at BET-Sodom.

       Don’t look back at the “White Girl Song”-Sodom that Black bloggers have discussed.

       Don’t look back at the Internet Ike Turners’ blogs-Sodom or the Internet Ike Turners-YouTube videos-Sodom. [Head scarf flutter in salute to blogger Gina McCauley, blog host of What About Our Daughters for coining the phrase ‚"Internet Ike Turner."]

       Don’t look back at entertainment products from Damaged Beyond Repair Black Men (DBRBM)-Sodom.

      Stop looking back at Sodom! God has let you slide for now. In His Grace, He has granted you a few more moments to make it out to safety. A few more moments to get clear of Sodom. But eventually you will be turned into a metaphorical pillar of salt if you continue to look back at what He does not want you to take in. You can’t run forward while looking backward!

      It’s now or never for those African-American women who intend to escape and survive. Will YOU make it out in time?

      Expect Success!

  23. Danielle says:

    asian women definitely use their “submissive” stereotype to their advantage. even if after they get the ring, they are quick to flip and be more assertive. i don’t understand why we are the only group of women who seem to have no idea what to do get the HIGHEST quality man

  24. Evia says:

    I’m afraid that before the masses of black women ‘get-it’ white women and other non-black women will stop excepting black men for marriage and mating ( because they take their issues with them) and then bm will start strongly pursuing us again.

    Gurrrl! This is the part that makes me cringe the most, and I can see it coming as clear as day. Bm will reach a saturation point in the next few years in acquiring ww for sure, and there are only so many light-bright bw. Soooooo, that means that many bm are going to make a U-turn back to the darker bw–since so many of them need a constant supply of fresh meat sex partners.

    So brace yourselves. At that point, they’re going to start smoozing browner and darker bw telling them that they’re SOOO beautiful and are such “QUEENS” and that ‘de evil wm’ made them believe that lighter-whiter was better and yadda yadda. LOL!!!

    Y’all can bet BIG money on that. I hope and pray that the majority of bw are not DUPED again. I’m praying for the masses of bw to see through this maneuver. I’m praying for this, y’all.

  25. Faith says:

    Thank you for linking to my blog post. I’ll read through the comments and may add further responses.

  26. Danielle,

    You said, ” i don’t understand why we are the only group of women who seem to have no idea what to do get the HIGHEST quality man”

    One word answer: indoctrination.
    ________________________________________________

    Evia,

    You said, “This is the part that makes me cringe the most, and I can see it coming as clear as day. Bm will reach a saturation point in the next few years in acquiring ww for sure, and there are only so many light-bright bw. Soooooo, that means that many bm are going to make a U-turn back to the darker bw–since so many of them need a constant supply of fresh meat sex partners.

    So brace yourselves. At that point, they’re going to start smoozing browner and darker bw telling them that they’re SOOO beautiful and are such “QUEENS” and that ‘de evil wm’ made them believe that lighter-whiter was better and yadda yadda. LOL!!!

    Y’all can bet BIG money on that. I hope and pray that the majority of bw are not DUPED again. I’m praying for the masses of bw to see through this maneuver. I’m praying for this, y’all.”

    {very long sigh} I can hear it already . . . AA men tricking silly BW into waste of time conversations about the “root causes” of BM’s lighter/brighter/Whiter fetish. Which, of course, leads back to displacing BW’s anger onto WM. Thereby absolving modern-day, VOLUNTARILY mentally-enslaved AA males of any responsibility for their own chosen behaviors. [There's no excuse for a 21st century Black person choosing to remain mentally enslaved. There's simply too much healing information and materials that's freely available to folks. Anybody can change their mind---if they want to.]

    I’ll pray that more BW wake up before this mass BM retreat back to darker-skinned BW begins.
    ________________________________________

    Faith,

    You’re welcome! Thanks for doing your post—it’s a series of points that can’t be repeated often enough among AA women and girls.

    Expect Success!

  27. Pat says:

    Nobody and I mean no other group benefits from interracial relationships more than black women…

  28. pioneervalleywoman says:

    Khadija:

    I’ve never directly dealt with death benefits, but I would expect them to operate as you described—the unwed baby mama has a much harder way to go (than a wife does) to get her hands on the dead baby daddy’s benefit money.

    My reply:

    I was doing some women’s history research into inheritance rights and what I saw was interesting–something about the Uniform Probate Code. If someone dies without a will, the surviving spouse automatically gets everything. If there is no spouse, then it goes down to the children and up to the parents, siblings, cousins, grandparents.

  29. I don’t know of any state in the union that recognizes common-law marriage. Certainly I can speak directly of the southeastern states with which I have great familiarity and none of them do. (Some very old ones are grandfathered in, but even then the standard to be met is very high. Includes filing joint tax returns and owning property together.)

    And inheritance rights in southeastern states is crucial as well. If you’re not married blood trumps all, so you can live with a man for thirty years and even if there’s a will his relatives can still contest it and stand a very good chance of winning. As Judge Judy puts it, “The law is not set up to protect people who want to play house. You do that at your own risk. The laws are set up to protect MARRIAGE.” Now, if even Judge Judy is spitting this kind of knowledge daily I find it very hard to believe that people are too dense to get it.

  30. Oshun/Aphrodite says:

    Thank you Khadija, Magenta, Robynne, and Roslyn!

    I honestly hadn’t thought that far concerning death and OOW. Those are a lot of benefits or I guess they should be called necessary protections and provisions that these women are missing out on.

    That sounds so awful. My parents were married a long time and when my father died I know it was very stressful for my mother and she had some level of provision.

    I did think it strange that she was asking for money. My thoughts were what about his job ? – didn’t he have insurance that way because he was a semi-skilled professional (engineer/tech of some sort) and I know his job had an element of danger to it. So I was under the impression that those types of jobs tend to have some kind of insurance with them. Then I thought about his parents or siblings etc.

    But it has been broken down that she may have been immediately cut off and turned out into the cold. I feel badly for her, but at the same time I did feel some resentment. There were others who gave to her (some who stated that they were unemployed) and there was some “pressure” for everyone to give something to help her out, but I kept thinking/feeling what about immediate family – extended family?

    At any rate thank you all for dropping extra knowledge.

    • You’re welcome!

      Expect Success!

    • pioneervalleywoman says:

      The thing is, Oshun/Aphrodite, is that there might be some type of coverage (ie., as per OSHA) required for certain types of on-the-job injuries or death, but companies always encourage people to buy their own type of insurance, because they don’t cover everything. Regarding your relatives getting something he might have had out there, since your parents were married, the question is whether there were other things your dad might not have thought of getting. With respect to other types of coverage he might have had, ie., bank accounts and so forth, if he had items with other relatives, ie., bank accounts with names of beneficiaries or insurance policies that were never changed over, that could have been lost. So it could be a whole collection of variables that might have affected her. That is something financial planners urge people to do all the time. Upon some major life event, such as a marriage or so forth, they urge the changing of beneficiaries and co-owners on bank accounts, retirement plans, insurance policies…

    • Robynne says:

      No prob :)

  31. Pat,

    You said, “Nobody and I mean no other group benefits from interracial relationships more than black women…”

    True that. And, as I’ve repeatedly emphasized, it’s not about race per se, it’s about cultural norms. Right now, AA women (and other similarly-situated BW) are involving themselves in toxic relationships with AA men who are mostly downright INFERIOR when evaluated according to HUMAN norms of men being protectors and providers. Other ethnic groups don’t tolerate and coddle the dysfunctional behaviors that modern AA culture tolerates from AA men.

    So, it stands to reason that when an AA woman dates and marries out, the odds are that she’ll be with a much more functional man—simply because NO other culture condones men who refuse to protect and provide for the women and children in their orbit. Other cultures tend to condemn such men and push them off into the fringes. Instead of celebrating such non-protective and non-providing males the way AAs do.

    Like I said, this isn’t about race, it’s about cultural norms. AA women and girls need to socialize, date and marry from among other people who have healthier cultural norms than the current mass madness that goes on among AAs.
    ______________________________________

    PioneerValleyWoman,

    You said, “I was doing some women’s history research into inheritance rights and what I saw was interesting–something about the Uniform Probate Code. If someone dies without a will, the surviving spouse automatically gets everything. If there is no spouse, then it goes down to the children and up to the parents, siblings, cousins, grandparents.”

    That’s interesting. Thanks for the info! The bottom line is that HUMAN cultures are set up to respect, protect, and prefer LEGITIMATE FAMILY UNITS. This human reality is reflected in various laws, tax codes, regulations, etc. When a woman places herself and her children outside recognized family units by shacking and oow, she makes herself and her children extra vulnerable.

    I’m so sick of these dishonest NWNW hecklers who are pretending not to know any of this. Some of them are pretending not to know this even as they suffer these particular negative consequences that we’re discussing! It’s been privately brought to my attention that some of these Baby Mama Mafia NWNW hecklers are suffering right now as we speak. But they’re so fixated on trying to justify their own mistakes, that they want to pretend that oow is just fine and dandy and equal to married parenting.

    And they’re happy to throw young BW and girls under the bus just so they can feel better about their own bad choices. Misery demands company. All of this is downright EVIL behavior.

    Expect Success!

  32. ***Note to Readers***

    In making this new site the kind of project that’s sustainable for me over the long-run, I’ve had to streamline how I handle certain things. The comments section is one of them. What this means is that I’ll give substantive responses to those folks who enter the conversations early (as I did across the board at the previous blog).

    After each post is a couple of days old, I’ll generally continue to publish new comments from readers. (That meet the commenting guidelines as set forth at the previous blog—those who are unfamiliar can read the comment “box” at the previous blog.)

    But, after a each post is a couple of days old, I generally WON’T continue responding to new comments.

    In other words, I’ll continue to publish comments to this post, but I’m not going to reply to any more comments in this thread. FYI. Please feel free to talk among yourselves!

    Expect Success!

  33. foreverloyal says:

    One of the women in my cirle was a married, stay-at-home mom, living in a lovely home in a beautiful suburb. A bit over a year ago, her husband died suddenly. They had been together since junior high.
    Guess what?
    She’s STILL a stay-at-home mom, living in the same lovely home in the same beautiful suburb. She was married to a good guy. I believe their house was paid off (or very close to it), and she got life insurance and social security. Her kids have their memories of father who loved them and took care of them. He provided for them in life and in death, may he rest in peace.

  34. Truth P. says:

    It seems to me AA people getting educated married and working would defitnetly work best to lift AA’s out of poverty.

  35. [...] 31st, 2010 Welcome to the sixth installment of an ongoing series of You Betta Recognize posts. A recent conversation raised a number of points that can’t be emphasized enough to young African-American women and [...]

  36. Everybody,

    This conversation has taken a turn into some details that I believe deserve a separate blog post (which is now up—see the above comment that links to it). Also, I think we’ve covered all the angles to the original topic of this particular post.

    So, I’m closing the comments to this post. Please continue the conversation about the many automatic safeguards that marriage provides for women and their children in the next post (which has now been published).

    Thank you all for sharing these details!

  37. [...] For me, the main take-away point from reading Black men’s comments during that and so many other Black conversations is If You Really Want To Help Black Girls, Marry One Of This Planet’s Dominant, Alpha-Men. [...]

  38. [...] If You Really Want To Help Black Girls, Marry One Of This Planet’s Dominant, Alpha-Men  Sojourner’s Passport [...]

  39. [...] October Khadija, blog host of Sojourner’s Passport wrote this essay about encouraging black girls to marry the world’s most dominant men. Nowhere was it suggested that a majority of black women should limit themselves to an “alpha [...]

  40. [...] interest from men outside their racial group as a negative “fetish.” As I said during this post, Faith, blog host of Acts Of Faith In Love And Life, is currently having an extremely important [...]

  41. [...] . . . African-American women are alone on this planet in characterizing all romantic interest from men outside their racial group as a negative “fetish.” As I said during this post, [...]