For All Practical Purposes, Most Self-Proclaimed Good Black Men™ = Pookie And Ray-Ray

The willingness to listen with humility, to accept correction, and to engage in self-correction are qualities that I value. In that spirit, I’ve decided to imitate one of my favorite bloggers, Fabius Maximus, by doing an ongoing series of posts documenting instances (as they occur) where readers (or other people) have either corrected my misconceptions or pointed out blind spots in my thinking. As I’ve always stressed, I’m definitely not any sort of guru, and I learn a lot from listening to the readers and other bloggers. Here’s the most recent course correction in my thinking.

GOOD BLACK MEN™ USE POOKIE AS A SCAPEGOAT. EVEN THOUGH GOOD BLACK MEN™ ARE EXACTLY THE SAME AS POOKIE IN THEIR NON-PROTECTIVE, NON-PROVIDING BEHAVIOR TOWARD BLACK WOMEN AND CHILDREN

Following post links from What About Our Daughters to Black Voices ultimately led me to the post, For My Critics: If You Have A Better Solution Bring It from Von’s Black Consciousness, where among other things she said (I lightly edited the profanity),

At some point in time black men checked the f*ck out! People reading this can deny if they want, but there is a reason why states are studying the plight of black men. There is a reason why Bill Cosby is telling black women they will have to leave black men behind ( here). There is a reason I keep receiving emails from BLACK MEN reading, “I feel sorry for young black women.” There is a reason my original blog ruffled some feathers. Be HONEST with YOURSELF about it. Black women cannot count on black men at all period…for the most part we are on our own. If this were not true do you honestly think we would see the above statistics?

But wait…what about those “good” black men?

What about them? Where the hell are they when the “bad” black men are f*cking up the community? Where the hell are they when sh*t is popping off and black women and children are dodging bullets in the neighborhood or trying to protect themselves from rape or some other bullsh*t? Where the hell are these so-called good black men when their female counterparts are seeking marriage? I’ll tell you where MOST of the so-called good black men are: They are off somewhere taking advantage of their position sexing up every damn woman (and possibly man) they come in contact with ( here and here).

Most of the so-called good black men are wolves in sheep’s clothing. On paper they look real nice/appealing, but once you dig a little deeper you realize just how whorish and trifling they are. They are no better than the Pookies and Ray-Rays they try to pull rank over. More often than not these so-called good black men have a little money, a decent job, and some education. This is the MAIN reason they walk around feeling special. However, instead of being stand up men (or REAL good men) and seeking a wife, they take advantage of their low numbers and the high number of single black women. So, I say F*CK THEM. I can’t see myself being allies with these so-called good black men because I don’t respect or trust them.

Finding a true stand up black man is like finding a needle in a haystack. Great if you find one (I count my blessing daily) not the end of the world if you don’t find one (my life will keep moving with or without a man…I love my soon to be husband dearly but I’m not going to lay down and die if things go south). I got nothing but love for the REAL “good” black men who are handling their business (that includes actually being faithful, loving ONE woman, and making her your wife), but let’s not act like those individuals are the majority or even half of the African American male population. There aren’t enough of these men to go around. These individuals cannot take up the slack for all the other f*cked up black men. Black folks need to concede to this reality (which helps my case).

(emphasis added)

She’s right. As discussed in this post, White male-dominated law enforcement personnel are the only organized group of male protectors that African-American women and children have. Self-proclaimed Good Black Men™ assume no responsibility whatsoever for the safety of Black women and children within Black residential areas.

Self-proclaimed Good Black Men™ also like to pretend that underclass African-American male “Pookies” and “Ray-Rays” are the primary, if not only, source of the majority out of wedlock child rate within the African-American collective. They’re not. And that most of the African-American males who abandon their children fit Pookie’s and Ray-Ray’s profile. They don’t. At least not from what I saw while doing defense rotations in my area’s child support courtrooms. The educated, working Good Black Men™ that I represented in those cases ALSO did not want to recognize or financially support their children. I talked about the horrors Black women in particular often go through in oow paternity cases in the post, You Betta Recognize That It’s FAR Better To Be A Divorced Mother Than A Never-Married Mother With Out Of Wedlock Children.

At any rate, until I read Von’s post, I hadn’t realized the extent to which Good Black Men™ like to heap all their collective failures as men onto underclass Pookie and Ray-Ray. Their scapegoating of Pookie and Ray-Ray also ties into these so-called Good Black Men’s™ thinly veiled envy of Pookie and Ray-Ray. It’s all extremely toxic, and reminds me of an exchange I had with a defective, most likely fatherless Black male reader during a recent post:

[Defective, Most-Likely Fatherless, Black Male Reader,]

I’m not surprised that you provided a “teachable moment.” I was hoping that you wouldn’t veer off into reading your own issues into what was being said; but I wasn’t holding my breath in that hope.

You had to work overtime…work your fingers to the bone…to get everything that’s been said so far ALL twisted around into your statement, “Character, in the grand scheme of things, doesn’t matter when it comes to men.”

Let me say what my original, unedited response was to your first statement:

From your very first questions, you sound like a fatherless man who has never thought to plan for his woman’s (and/or future children’s) physical safety. I had originally said this in my first response, but I deleted that part. I wanted to see what you would ultimately say. Well, now I know.

On top of sounding like a fatherless man who wasn’t raised to be a protector or provider, you sound angry at the very idea that anybody might expect that from you. With more than a dash of self-professed, fake “Nice Guy™” thrown into the mix. Added with what sounds like your (really quite curious) envy of BM drug dealers and thugs. All in all, you’ve worked very hard to make several amazingly inaccurate distortions about what’s been said so far.

(1) Why in the world do you assume that BM drug dealers and thugs are “protectors and providers” for their women? Who ever told you that? A drug dealer or thug? Ummm…no, that’s NOT how most AA male drug dealers and thugs I’ve enountered roll.

As someone who has represented many drug dealers and thugs over the years, you’re making a LOT of false assumptions about the nature of drug dealers and thugs. The BM drug dealer and thug are among the first males who will use women and children as human shields if something breaks out. You didn’t catch the reference to the “New Jack City” maneuver of using women and children as human shields? Drug dealers and thugs are the ones who do that sort of maneuver. Who else could you possibly have thought I was talking about when I said,

To the ultimate life-and-death sort of things. The woman should know—without being having to be told—that any physical attacker would have to get through the man in order to get at her or their children. Not the “New Jack City” maneuver of using women and children as human shields. Not the modern “runs without looking to see what’s happening with his date” male. Not the modern “I don’t know what to do” male who’s stands around confused when some other male verbally assaults the woman he’s with; or when some other mess breaks out. [At minimum, quickly get the woman safely away from the predator/problem.]

AA male drug dealers and thugs are also prone to be among the first to run off without checking to see what happened to their dates/women. You give BM drug dealers and thugs a lot of credit for “heart” that they generally DON’T have. It’s amazing to see a self-professed “Nice Guy™” praise them so.

I will also note that my negative impressions of drug dealers and thugs are not new. What I’ve seen of them in my professional life only confirms the extremely negative view I had of them as a teenage girl. And I wasn’t the only teenage AA girl during high school who hated drug dealers and thugs. Most of the other AA girls I knew hated them too…but I guess AA young women like that don’t count…only the Black female knuckleheads who aren’t repulsed by criminals “register” in the minds of self-professed “Nice Guys™” like you.

(2) You’re also assuming that BM drug dealers and thugs actually provide for their women and children. That’s an interesting assumption that’s NOT borne out by what I saw while doing some rotations—defending men in paternity and child support cases—in Chicago’s child support courtrooms. From what I saw, the bulk of such individuals spend the lion’s share of whatever money flows through their hands on THEMSELVES.

(3) Who said anything about wanting a man with a “penchant for irresponsibility and violence” or a man who’s prone to gunplay? Sir, that’s YOU saying that. NOBODY ELSE said anything even remotely like that. Let me repeat what I did say:

(a)I mentioned how men who are protectors think through and PLAN what they might do if something happens when their women and children are around. I said,

Let me mention a disturbing trend about modern BM and the above life-and-death scenarios. I can count on less than one hand (and this includes my ex) the number of modern BM who have taken the time to think through what they would do if some life-and-death emergency situation breaks out while they’re with their lady.

(b)I also mentioned planning in terms of fire, and other general emergencies. I said,

And the local E2 disaster in Chicago was a perfect example of NON-protective, new-school AA males. I recall noticing during the tv news reports from outside the nightclub that it was the physically largest AA males who were wedged in the doors—they had trampled over other people (including stepping over, one might assume, their dates for the night to get to the doors).

. . . On another note, all of this has brought back memories of how my Dad had us practice evacuating the house in case of fire when I was small. We also practiced getting in and out of the car quickly (no fooling around for me and my brother) when a code word was given.

(c)I mentioned how men who are protectors pay attention to what’s going on in their physical environment. I said,

I also notice that many modern BM do not appear to be paying attention to the physical environment and who’s in it while they’re out with their ladies.

One of the benefits of working with a lot of cops and prison guards over the years is that I’ve learned how to notice who’s quietly scanning the environment. Cops and prison guards know how to pay close attention to what’s going on around them in the environment without obviously looking like they’re watching. They also know how to do this while holding totally unrelated conversations, etc.

I’m not saying that anybody should be paranoid. But, a PROTECTIVE man is as quietly and unobtrusively observant as most cops. Old-school BM and modern BM who were raised by old-school BM are quietly vigilant like most cops when their women and children are around. I feel a lot safer with men like that around.

Sir, how in the world did you interpret any of this as referring to drug dealers and thugs? Like I said, you had to work your fingers to the bone to take a reference that compared protective men to POLICE OFFICERS and interpret it as praise of drug dealers and thugs. That was absolutely dishonest on your part.

(4)I mentioned how a protective man will, at minimum, quickly get the woman AWAY from the predator/problem. NOT stand around confused because he doesn’t know what to do. I said,

Not the modern “I don’t know what to do” male who’s stands around confused when some other male verbally assaults the woman he’s with; or when some other mess breaks out. [At minimum, quickly get the woman safely away from the predator/problem.]

Sir, it’s not anybody else’s fault—including the BM drug dealers and thugs you apparently choose to envy—that you haven’t mentally prepared yourself to be a competent protector or provider. NONE of the above descriptions of what protective men do revolves around gunplay. I’d say that at least 90%-plus of the protective behaviors I described above are MENTAL actions; and are the result of a man:

1-planning,

2-paying attention (which often prevents one from getting caught in various negative situations in the first place), and

3-having the conscious desire and intention of being a good protector and provider for his woman and children.

None of which seems to describe you. You’re more focused on how much you envy and apparently feel inferior to BM drug dealers and thugs—who are equally unprepared to be competent protectors and providers. I wasn’t really thinking about this angle before reading your dishonest comment, but now that I think about it: The majority of the BM I’ve known who are good protectors and providers are genuinely NICE MEN—GENTLEMEN—and FAMILY MEN. Not dishonest, fake “Nice Guys™” with entitlement issues and unresolved high school envy of drug dealers and thugs.

Sir, I don’t like it when people waste other conversation participants’ time by operating in total bad faith; which is what you’ve done. Based on some of your earlier unpublished comments you’ve submitted here, I was initially hesitant to let you participate in this conversation. But you’ve settled the question for me. You’re not welcome to participate in any of the conversations here.

**Addendum***
And before I forget, Lefemmenoir started off her comment by saying,

I absolutely LOVE nice guys, as a matter-of-fact, I won’t date a guy unless I am sure that he is a nice guy (I am also partial to Nerds, but that is a topic for another day)….Now to change gears a bit, I must say that most guys who call themselves a “nice guy” probably aren’t. I have run into many a self-professed nice guy, only to discover that they are “nothing nice”, ok? This has become a “brand” if you will that toxic men like to wrap themselves in to appear more “human” or “human-like”, in hopes of getting a woman to let her guard down.

And I started off my reply to her by saying,

Lafemmenoir,

I’ve always adored genuinely nice guys and nerds-with-basic-social-skills (I’ve never been into guys with Asperger’s syndrome). The thing is that, as you noted, most of the men who make a point of calling themselves “nice guys” usually AREN’T.

Being a genuinely nice person involves having good character. That, plus the affection we both stated in favor of nerds leaves NO room for drug dealers and thugs. I’m amazed at how hard you had to work to get this all twisted around into basically the opposite of what we said.

Good luck, God bless, and Goodbye.

FINAL THOUGHTS ABOUT VON’S POST AND DISCUSSION

  • African-American men’s ongoing failures and DBR (damaged beyond repair) behavior are the greatest and the most successful “recruiting sergeants” ever for spreading the BWE (Black women’s empowerment) message.
  • African-American males are inadvertently proving the truth of the BWE analysis of African-American women’s situation by their behavior.
  • By their ongoing, mass refusal to protect and provide for Black women and children, African-American men in general are burning their bridges with ever-increasing numbers of African-American women. Including the nationalist Black women who previously felt politically obligated to support them. I used to be a Black Nationalist, until I realized that Black men had checked out of that (and everything else Black-related) decades ago.
  • People’s reading comprehension drops significantly when they encounter a message they don’t like. Von had to repeatedly tell (mis)readers that she wasn’t talking about Black women “leaving” Black men because there aren’t any Black men around to be left. As she emphasized, Black men have already checked out.
  • With ONE exception, the Black men who commented had no alternative solutions to offer. All most of the Black male commenters cared about was deflecting responsibility off of Black men, and in particular off of Good Black Men.™ The one gentleman who did offer a solution had a plan that revolved around more (empty) talk. No proposed action.

For me, the main take-away point from reading Black men’s comments during that and so many other Black conversations is If You Really Want To Help Black Girls, Marry One Of This Planet’s Dominant, Alpha-Men.

ADDENDUM

Another example of insight gained from listening with humility: Until reading Von’s post, I also hadn’t made the connection between this scapegoating and the fact that most self-proclaimed Good Black Men™ measure themselves and their manhood (such as it is) by what Pookie and Ray-Ray are doing or not doing; not by what mostly functional, nonblack men are doing. The mind boggles.

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98 Responses to “For All Practical Purposes, Most Self-Proclaimed Good Black Men™ = Pookie And Ray-Ray”

  1. Muse says:

    The timing of this post is ironic since my girlfriends and I were just having a discussion about pseudo-nice guys. Even though I’m not around thugs or criminals in my circle or environment, it doesn’t mean I don’t encounter DBRs. I think the career-orientated/ professional DBRs are more dangerous because their dysfunctional thinking and behavior isn’t that obvious to the naked eye. As a woman you have to be on guard and pay close attention to their behavior to spot the non-thug DBR Negro. These individuals cover up their degenerate behavior with their degrees and careers. They have a complex and entitlement issues as Von mentioned in her post, which translates to the poor treatment of Black women. These guys are also the same types to defend the obvious DBR and put blame solely on women for the issues impacting the “community. “

    These awful individuals take advantage of the numbers working against black women and use that to exploit the good women they do encounter. Black women are jumping through hoops and compromising their integrity just to be with these men without any reciprocity. In fact these gainfully employed pseudo-nice guys are kicking back and enjoying their harem of Black women catering to their every need. Sadly so many black women are so desperate for the IBM (Ideal Black Man) on paper, that they give these pseudo-nice guys a pass because of their education and careers even if they are being treated like garbage. I’ve told my male friends and associates countless times that if they use women as sperm dumpsters they are no better than the Pookie and Ray-Rays.

    The black women who manage exchange nuptials with these pseudo-nice guys aren’t in a better position. Now they have to maintain their super woman status. Not only do these women have to have a high power career and bring home the bacon, they also have to play the role of the housewife, sex goddess, and super wife. These women experience the double burden that many feminists write about. They have to maintain careers and the household without much support. I’ve actually spoken to friends who married these types of men and looking back most of them regret getting married to these losers. On paper and to the outside world they look like the power couple having the Barrack and Michelle fantasy but behind closed doors they are suffering because they are alone in their marriage. In fact some of these women are also dealing with unfaithful husbands. These Negros who grew up with nothing suddenly think that just because they have their degrees and fancy job titles they can do whatever they want, even if it means disrespecting their wives. Many of them have women on the side and its expected behavior as long as he comes home to the wife.

    As a disclaimer not all professional black men act like this however I can’t begin to tell you how many of these pseudo-nice guys have hit on me during happy hour or tried to make me their mistress at professional conferences. Luckily I have too much self-respect and ego to be someone’s side chick. This brings me to the point that women have to look beyond job titles and credentials when evaluating a mate. It takes patience and discipline but at the end you will thank yourself for having high standards for you life. Character and core values will determine what type of man you are dealing with. I avoid dating men who have treated other women in the past disrespectfully because most people do not change their core behavior. If he is a womanizer, not much is going to change about this individual unless they put effort into becoming a better person and have a track record showing their remarkable change in behavior and attitude. This usually takes years of unlearning bad behavior before someone makes verifiable changes.

    • ak says:

      Muse:

      I think the career-orientated/ professional DBRs are more dangerous because their dysfunctional thinking and behavior isn’t that obvious to the naked eye.

      That might be true sometimes, but I think most of the time the white-collar working BM may show their damage obviously enough but because (and they know this) so many BW don’t care and like to ignore the damage as long as they have a Black Man Working in their lives to show off to everybody, nobody’s going to address anything negative that they do until it’s too late probabaly.

    • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

      I wanted to cosign a lot of what you said. Many of the bm I dealt with in the past were everything you said.

      This would anger me so much when people would always call out that “thug” mess – when that never fit any of the DBRs that caused me harm.

    • Muse,

      Truth be told, most of the professional AA males I’ve met over the years (lawyers, judges, and doctors) are DBRBM with advanced degrees and professional licenses. Even when married, they are NOT family men.

      Expect Success!

    • Faith says:

      Also white women aren’t looking to be made a significant financial contributor (if they marry) as a requirement by their husbands.

  2. Faith Dow says:

    Von really laid it out and it was cringe-worthy across several fronts. Anyway, I received a message from a black male thanking me for my recent posts. This time I didn’t grill him about potential conflicts of interest as indicated from the post and simply thanked him, but this has come up before with some of those “GBM” who think a pat on the head is deserving of a cookie from me that they’re “okay”. This isn’t in response to some of the male readers I’ve had at my forum or conversed with online for some time and who’ve been vetted. This is about the attempt by some at horning in our conversations to infiltrate and use to their advantage. That isn’t necessarily exclusive to black males either, but since AA women are still stuck on misidentifying who their racism pushback targets SHOULD be I haven’t had the opportunity to discuss in greater detail why any random white male that claims to be interested in “black issues”, isn’t seriously dating or already married to a black women, doesn’t have any children with black heritage and only hangs out amongst the BWE/BWIR or others who are challenging ideologies is equally as SUSPECT.

    • Faith,

      Oh yeah, Von was quite thorough in laying it out.

      Expect Success!

    • Pam in FL says:

      Faith, you said:

      “That isn’t necessarily exclusive to black males either, but since AA women are still stuck on misidentifying who their racism pushback targets SHOULD be I haven’t had the opportunity to discuss in greater detail why any random white male that claims to be interested in “black issues”, isn’t seriously dating or already married to a black women, doesn’t have any children with black heritage and only hangs out amongst the BWE/BWIR or others who are challenging ideologies is equally as SUSPECT.”

      I say:

      You know something, I don’t want to take this discussion off on a tangent, but I have often wondered myself why “women of color” or a white woman or a white man would frequent a BWE blog. You bring up an interesting point. I can see if a post refers to them in some way, and they just stop in, give some input and go. I’m completely okay with that, in fact, I welcome it because it is insight from the source, so to speak. For instance, I wish more white/latin/asian men that are interested in dating black women would comment on those posts that mention them, because the way it happens now is only one or two comment and then everyone thinks whatever they say represents the viepoint of all the non-black men. No, I’m not talking about that kind of thing; I’m talking about someone just hanging around all the time, putting in his/her two cents on a lot of posts on a lot of different subjects where their viewpoint simply doesn’t add any value at all. What’s up with that?

      • Faith Dow says:

        I don’t know how interested others are in certain aspects of our conversations because it’s course-correction. It’s the after effects of the no-longer indoctrinated black woman that would potentially be of interest. Unless there’s specific dating/marriage related posts where is the value assessment? I do know that some more liberally-minded non-black women have found the acknowledgment of how BW have been mistreated has been an eye-opener and can be of benefit to us in preventing the knee-jerk save the Negro crusades that many tend to focus on. Education has its merits. It’s the voyeurs and infiltrators who make themselves known that get the side eye from me.

  3. Felicia says:

    This comment below (scroll down) made at Von’s Black Consciousness site (thanks for sharing the link) sums up my sentiments exactly.

    The ONLY reason why modern Western BW are suffering from low marriage rates, high OOW birthrates, higher than average for population HIV/AIDS rates, etc… etc… is because they’ve hitched their wagons (because of indoctrination) to a population that has a preponderance of CONQUERED, self-hating, and damaged LOSERS. If the majority of WW, AW, HW, etc… were disrespecting themselves with DBRBM they would be suffering the exact same sorry fate that countless BW are.

    Women (and their children) rise OR fall according to the type of man they get romantically and sexually involved with.

    As the numbers of BW successfully marry and procreate OUT with quality Alpha men in the global community, BW’s collective position in this world will improve.

    The one common denominator in ALL of the tales of woe and misery associated with BW, is BM.

    Even when you look at the increasing BW prison population (SMDH), in the majority of the cases -if not every single one – there’s a direct association with a BM.

    Anyone who claims to not see that direct link is either blind or a liar or both.

    “The most I can add is that BW need to focus on educating themselves, getting out of the ghettoes, and into safe environments and marrying quality men BEFORE HAVING CHILDREN. I could care less about the race of the husband — Black women need quality men.

    Of course, Black men’s feelings are hurt by what you (and other BWE bloggers) are saying, but you need to say it loud and clear until Black women get it through their heads that their choices matter.

    Choosing to stay and wallow in what is now called the “Black community” gets BW nowhere and nothing except heartache.

    Move on — live your life with purpose. Be happy. Take care of yourselves. You owe nothing to Black men.”

    • Felicia,

      You said, “Women (and their children) rise OR fall according to the type of man they get romantically and sexually involved with.

      As the numbers of BW successfully marry and procreate OUT with quality Alpha men in the global community, BW’s collective position in this world will improve.”

      That’s the bottom line.

      Expect Success!

  4. Pamela says:

    The silence is deafening from way too many black men when it comes to speaking about against wrongdoing of other black men, especially when black women and children are involved. ANY MALE, regardless of skin hue, is not worth a thing to any woman if he is passive when it comes to standing up for right and to attempt to protect the vulnerable around them. Being passive is bad enough but running scared when they should stand up is even worse to me. Making excuses for madness is inexcusable. I will NEVER refer to a male like that as a man. I truly thank God for my OLD SCHOOL NON-CHAUVINISTIC husband who honors me as a woman but will fight to protect me from harm, physically, verbally or online when my character has been slandered.

    It is incredibly sad that black women looking for and marrying a decent man with standards (COMMON SENSE APPROACH) has to be defended time and time again on blogs like this and other forums. Talk about being hoodwinked. Thankfully more and more black women are getting a clue that they have the right to enjoy life just like other women do and are ignoring the stupid stuff they have been told for years and decades. It is good that there are voices like this blog that black women can find incognito if need be and positively influenced to change their lives and leave the madness behind.

    • Pamela,

      You said, “It is incredibly sad that black women looking for and marrying a decent man with standards (COMMON SENSE APPROACH) has to be defended time and time again on blogs like this and other forums. Talk about being hoodwinked.”

      Indeed. Up is down and down is up among most modern AAs. And, as Evia has previously explained, most of this deliberately confused thinking is designed to accommodate modern AA males’ mass dysfunctions and deficits (their unwillingness and inability to function as normal MEN who are protectors and providers).

      Expect Success!

  5. Felicia says:

    See this is what I’m talking about…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/fashion/weddings/28THOMAS.html?_r=1&ref=weddings

    It’s SO important for women – most ESPECIALLY BW – to marry Quality Alpha men. Because in the case of BW, we don’t have a functional and supportive mass culture that will support us if things don’t work out. Instead in many cases we have to CREATE a supportive, nurturing, atmosphere/environment for ourselves.

    And the EASIEST (and IMO best) way for a marriage oriented BW to create a nurturing, loving, healthy, and positive atmosphere/environment for herself and her future children is by marrying OUTSIDE of the growingly toxic AA anti-culture.

    It’s SO important for these BW/WM IR marriages to continue to be highlighted, because they provide HOPE to the countless numbers of BW who are being encouraged to destroy themselves by male and female buzzards in the dead and increasingly irrelevant “community”.

    • mobile68 says:

      I went to the link and just in reading about who both of their parents are. WOW! No low-quailty parents of either of these individuals, professional wise anyway.

      Having said that, being married to a middle class DBRBM, when I’m out of this marriage, my #1 dating vetting priority will be to meet his family. A couple of times.

      Even though my family backround isn’t the greatest morally(no jailbird history), his family is quite the dysfunctional one. It would take up too much space to tell how screwed up his family is and how he has allowed it to shape/define him.

  6. sisterlocgirl says:

    Wow. You have again managed to articulate something that I have known subconsciously for quite some time. I interact with police officers and corrections personnel fairly regulary, and your observations are dead on. My husband takes my personal safety/security deadly serious to the extent that he takes tactical firearms classes, is at the gun range at least three times weekly and is on my toukas to become more proficient with one of the various firearms he has purchased for me. We work through various scenarios and how I can protect myself if he’s not present. We also have plans regarding what I am to do in various situations. My situational awareness is quite keen between the programs we watch ( Spike TVs Don’t Be A Victim block )and the various points/tips I receive from my law enforcement friends. When I think about my dad ( bless his dear departed soul )and how protective he was of our family, I shake my head at the cowardly behavior that is accepted by the defunct bc. When I was dating my now husband he was definitely quietly observing our surroundings. Now I have a better radar for possible friction due to our BW-WM marriage, but he listens to me if I say we need to bounce. I COMPLETELY cosign the title of the post. I work with quite a few young, educated BM and ether they are true nerds ( and overlooked by silly bw looking for a thug with a degree ) or they are seriously DBRBM who just happened to be smart enough to realize ghetto life is NOT desirable. Good character doesn’t require announcements, pronoucements or declarations. A good man, nice guy, gentleman informs you of this by his ACTIONS. If you haven’t read the linked post at the end of the post, be sure to check it out. Excellent as always Khadijah. I’m just starting to wonder if you have a secret antenna that’s picking up my thoughts lol!

    • Sisterlocgirl,

      Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it. You said, “I’m just starting to wonder if you have a secret antenna that’s picking up my thoughts lol!”

      We’re both simply looking at the SAME overall, mass behavior patterns on display among AA males.

      Expect Success!

  7. ak says:

    I’ll never forget Khadija when you taked about your BM lawyer acquaintance who thought he was goin’ round town straight up ballin’ with a little black book as thick as a Bible until he had a stroke and then NOBODY had time for him anymore, and he had OOW kids from his escapades, you said, who I’m sure he expects them to show up now or soon even though he never wanted to show up for them. Just because he’s a lawyer black people would swear up and down that he was a Good Black Man (TM), especially the black womenm.

    That’s a shame about this acquaintance left high and dry after such a debilitation but if he’d have lived life a bit differently and with more accountability, he’d have support in his situation and not have to go through it all alone. Oh well! I hope he has plenty of savings left over for himself that he hasn’t squandered on too many trinkets, or on bad investments, or anything.

    I also remember you talking about a BW you know who married a BM who was at home with their four year old son but didn’t feel obligated to watch him or guide him, but only watch TV instead so the woman had to use every waking hour outside of work to run back and forth to make sure her little boy didn’t drown in a ‘thimble full-amount’ of water (which is all it’s supposed to take)! But I wouldn’t be surprised if they told the woman that her husband was good and to make sure she held on to him because that ‘gem’ could slip away!

    • AK,

      Like I mentioned above, most of the professional AA males I’ve met over the years (lawyers, judges, and doctors) are DBRBM with advanced degrees and professional licenses. Even when married, they are NOT family men.

      Expect Success!

  8. Everybody,

    I’m mostly going to sit back and “listen with humility” during this conversation, so I’ll try to keep my responses brief. [Which is always a challenge for me because I can be long-winded. LOL!]

    My thing is that, until I read Von’s post, I hadn’t really taken note of how heavily invested most self-proclaimed Good Black Men™ are in scapegoating underclass Pookie and Ray-Ray—while doing NOTHING to check Pookie’s and Ray-Ray’s destructive behavior. Pookie and Ray-Ray aren’t the only (or even the majority of) AA males who are actively engaging in destructive, anti-family formation, anti-life behaviors. Most of these self-proclaimed Good Black Men™ are the SAME as Pookie and Ray-Ray in terms of being irresponsible womanizers.

    Also just the SAME as Pookie and Ray-Ray, most self-proclaimed Good Black Men™ are always care-RECIPIENTS from BW and never care-PROVIDERS to Black women. Often, including never providing active, material care to their own Black mothers and other Black female relatives who have supported their aspirations over the years.

    I also hadn’t made the connection between this scapegoating and the fact that most self-proclaimed Good Black Men™ measure themselves and their manhood (such as it is) by what Pookie and Ray-Ray are doing or not doing; *not* by what mostly functional, nonblack men are doing. The mind boggles.

    Expect Success!

    • Von says:

      Just wanted to say thanks for the shout out. I didn’t realize how powerful my writing is until recently. I wish I could blog more often but I don’t have time right now.

      I’m happy I could add my perspective to the conversation. I’m only twenty-five years old so I’m still learning, but believe me…I’m beginning to understand.

      And yes Pookie and Ray-Ray have become a scapegoat for some so-called “good” black men. I plan to write about this when I get time. Again thanks for the love.

      Peace to all!

      • Von,

        You’re welcome!

        And thank YOU for the outstanding work you’ve been doing. I learn a lot from reading and listening to sensible young-uns like you! 🙂

        Expect Success!

      • Anne1 says:

        Von, you are wise beyond your years! Wow, I wish that I knew half of this stuff when I was your age. Please write that book as you will help to uplift many young BW for generations.

        My daughter is 24 years old so she’s around your age and thankfully it only took her two bad long-term relationships with BM for her to smell the coffee. She is now married to a wonderful WM who provides for her and protects her like a man should. She’s a college graduate but she chooses to stay at home to raise their children. They met at the private boarding school for high school which I glady entered student loans for her to attend for the exposure to other cultures outside our circle.

        Sadly, her high school black girlfriends still choose to date BM but envy her life when they could be enjoying the same positive experience, even after a string of relationships gone wrong. I ask them why envy her? One of her friends had a nice young WM interested in her but she wrote him off as “nerdy”. The BM she choose over the so called nerd is cheating on her and drinks heavily. It’s the same for one of my neices. She is also 24 years old and won’t listen to any of this. I don’t really know how to get through to her directly so I don’t try anymore.

        I encouraged my daughter to start blogging about her home life with the hope of helping the movement, thinking that if the information was coming straight from her it will help other young BW directly in her age group see that happiness is possible. If I may, my daughter’s blog is pickledketchup.com and she shares lots of pictures of my beautiful grandchildren with matching stories. Lord knows I hope it helps the younger set out there but we’ll just have to wait to see what happens in the next generation of BW.

        Stay encouraged, continue your positive message, and I look forward to buying your book in the near future!

    • Truth P. says:

      What I found hardest to understand was the fact that so many of those “good on paper” black men are currently online bashing black women telling us we aint ish and that’s why they don’t want us/aint with us.Yet when we decide to pick ourselves up and start to make plans for our lives without them they cry foul.As Von,AND these good on paper black men,have already said they are’nt there anyway.

      It seems to me that these men would like to keep black women in a position of having black women BEGGING black men to love us and their children and not to belittle or trash us.It seems to me that these people not so secretly enjoy us having pain and heartache being lonely used and abused.

      It is a SCARY thing to know that someone can have pleasure in the sufferings of another human being.What I’ve got out of this is I KNOW that alot of black men do HATE us and are oppressive and will use the same tactics that the kkk tried to use against blacks in general to keep black women down.Propaganda and ALL.They even call on others,other black men and women,their Becky’s,Mings,and Lupe’s to keep us down as well.

      I ran into Vons post through Gina McCauley’s post on bv.I tend to agree with Gem most of the time,she’s AMAZING btw a true GEM and class act, but when it comes to economic sanctions I can’t help but think that it is black men who have placed economic sanctions on black women and black children first.I think it is only right that we withdraw support for the majority of black men.

      • TruthP.,

        With all due respect to the amazing work that Gina does as WAOD, I believe that she consistently, accidentally misconstrues and misreads statements about the “divestment” issue, including misreading Von’s essay. At the Black Voices article, Gina said:

        What is new is the context in which these more recent conversations are taking place — within the very public relationship battles between black men and women. Economic sanctions (or divestment) are not being recommended as a tool for empowerment, but rather as a punishment for black men’s perceived failures. This frequent suggestion is often bandied about in the black blogosphere. A popular manifesto expressing this desire is offered by the blog Von’s Black Consciousness. The blogger advocates that black women should separate from black men and create their own black-male-free utopias:

        Gina keeps framing the issue as being about so-called “punishing BM.” Which is why she keeps describing what various BW are talking about as “economic sanctions.” Maybe some BW are framing the issue that way. But quote-unquote ““punishing BM” and quote-unquote “economic sanctions” are NOT what I’m talking about. From the way I read her essays, this terminology is also NOT what Von was talking about.

        What Von talked about in her essays was organizing the currently disorganized masses of BW who have already been abandoned by the masses of AA males—because said AA males had already “checked out” of assuming any responsibility for anything. Not some “utopia.” Von simply talked about organizing the currently disorganized masses of abandoned masses of AA women whom BM have left to fend for themselves and their children.

        As Von kept repeating, you can’t leave or separate from people (AA males) who are already GONE. You can’t leave somebody who has already left from being around you.

        I personally don’t like that “punishment” terminology because it reframes the normal, HUMAN expection of reciprocity as somehow being “punishment.” Using this type of language to describe what is actually fair play implies that there’s something punitive, harsh, or wrong about AA women requiring that which is simply FAIR PLAY. (Fair play = supporting those people who support you; and not supporting people who don’t support you).

        Also, framing the issue the way Gina keeps framing it serves to make AA males’ mass checkout invisible. The statistics that Von cited at the beginning of her essay don’t represent BM’s “perceived” failures. Those statistics and the dreadful, life-crippling circumstances they document represent AA men’s ACTUAL failures to protect and provide for AA women and children. These real and actual failures are the source of many of the preventable atrocities and fatalities suffered by AA children that Gina has documented at her blog over the past few years. What Von (and other BW) are talking about isn’t a matter of perception. This is cold, harsh reality that folks are describing.

        This whole filtering and reframing of BW wanting reciprocity into something that sounds unreasonable (such as “punishing BM”) is often part of something else that I see with a lot of my AA professional peers. The human wreckage created by the mass dysfunctions of the AA collective are all around them. In some cases, like my coworkers, they spend their work lives dealing with the wreckage. But yet they cling to the fantasy that their more or less normal and wholesome lives are somehow representative of what they often call the “real AA community.”

        NO. If the happy Black marriages they see and their individual wholesome lives were representative of the “real AA community,” then the statistics would not be what they are. And what they have been for decades.

        Another thing about this is why I try to be precise in my language. AAs tend to intertwine the term “Black” with our specific ethnic identity as African-Americans. Being “Black” does not automatically equal being an AA and being part of AA cultural pathologies. It’s not the masses of racially “Black” men who are nonprotective and nonproviding. It’s specifically African-American men who are nonprotective and nonproviding of AA women and children. [And other similarly situated Western BM, such as the Caribbean-British men in the UK.]

        I’ve never seen large numbers of other types of racially BM (such as Africans or Panamanians) engage in the mass abandonment of their children the way AA males do.

        To sum up, I reject that “punishing BM” and “economic sanctions” terminology. What I’m talking about is the basic HUMAN norm of seeking and engaging in RECIPROCITY. Reciprocity means to support the people and entities who support you. And to refrain from supporting people and entities that don’t support you. It’s as plain and simple as that.

        Expect Success!

        • Faith Dow says:

          Good points which is why the post, the source material and the insane response in the comment section took the central point into a confused mess. I saw a few distinct caveats though.

          1) The idea of the women raising kids alone is a problem.
          2) Are all of these abandoned women supposed to remain so?
          3) The inevitable conclusion that women must stop limiting themselves by race is not seriously encouraged when we know that is going to be best option and AA women need to date/marry out.
          4) There’s still an undercurrent of pain and disappointment expressed and I think hoping for the BM to ‘come to his senses’ so they can all come together.

          That “black love” trap! It was why some of the male detractors immediately tried to block the idea of interracial dating for BW.

          While I think Von’s conversation was beneficial and may appeal to a certain audience some of the key elements that would address the “conclusion” aspect as BW finally move on to the next phase of their lives (if they want the highest quality) cannot be ignored.

          • Faith,

            I also noticed the “caveats” you mentioned. That’s why I’ve decided to do a Part 2 to this post. Any plan that revolves around AA women remaining without competent, effective men providers is a bad plan.

            I see those sorts of ideas as emergency/crisis waystations. Waystations to bridge the gap between being immersed in the radioactive AA scene and transitioning to join the outer, global village.

            Expect Success!

      • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

        “It is a SCARY thing to know that someone can have pleasure in the sufferings of another human being.What I’ve got out of this is I KNOW that alot of black men do HATE us and are oppressive and will use the same tactics that the kkk tried to use against blacks in general to keep black women down.”

        Truth P,

        I can’t even make sense of my dealings with BM. And as all have mentioned these were men who were not Ray Ray. I have had 2 instances that were physically violent and all the rest included some form of verbal assault.

        And these were not “relationships”. This stuff happened in the “getting to know you” phase. I obviously cut off all contact with these men, but it is saying something that these men felt comfortable enough to be that way within a week or 2 of me meeting them.

        As I got older this extended to mere BM acquaintances. I have stories of the mess they would say/do. And I didn’t know these people from Adam’s house cat. And of course the BC and other BW had me thinking it was me and I needed to “go within” etc.

        The level of cruelty and depravity is mindboggling.

        So I have amputated all interaction with them period. I avoid them at all costs. Including the ones in my family. They are unsafe. I refuse to subject myself to the potential of being verbally assaulted or being physically threatened.

        • Truth P. says:

          Khadija I had to retype my comment.Don’t know if it came through,computer malfunction,but if it did it was’nt finished.

          in response to Oshun:I understand where you are coming from and have been there myself.I am so sorry that you went through those things and will be praying for you.God bless you.

          I have been through the same exact things Oshun.
          I have never been in a relationship with a black man before despite living around them my whole life.I too have been harassed,insulted or assaulted by random black men.I lived in between my parents house,in the ghetto,and my grandma’s house in a middle class community not too far from my parents house.
          The men that lived in my grandma’s community that were decent were always much much older than me and their grandsons were a mess.The men that lived aound my parents were my age but they were AWFUL people as well.

          This was hard for me because I grew up here in the midwest and in a community where everybody knew mostly everybody else’s family from waaay back til when our grandparents and great grandparents were young.My parents knew eachother for years before they married and actually grew up together and all of the people I knew growing up that got married grew up with their husbands and wives.

          Somewhere along the line a generation of people got screwed up stop marrying and had a bunch of DBR sons.By the time it’s my turn there is no suitable boys to even be my boyfriend so I chose a life of celibacy.One time I made a mistake of showing a boy, who i’d grown up with,some attention.We were only kids,about 13,and we flirted with eachother,no biggy.Next thing I know I am being pushed against a wall and fondled.I was shocked and embarassed because it was outside and I was hopin noone saw.I’d asked him to stop and to get off of me but he wouldn’t.Luckily someone walked by and he stopped.I questioned myself alot after that and felt really bad.I was already living a very reclusive life when I would be at my parents house because even though my parents had known alot of the other kids’ parents for years,those kids were damaged and just bad.Most of the boys were.I do not know why I paid any attention to him at all.

          I think that being attacked so many times as well as having an 17 year old guy try to get me when I was 9 made me a recluse repressed asexual person.Even when I got away from there and from those people some of the pain and fear still persists.Like you, i’m working on myself.

          I have no stories of any black man doing me wrong in a relationship because I was so turned off by them since I was a kid that I never gave any of them a chance.It’s always random strange black men that have done or said bad things to me as i’m walking down the street or in school at work etc.

          • ink says:

            Why is it always the black guys you pay NO attention to? I can’t count the number of times I have been verbally harrassed/assualted by bm I don’t know and have NEVER even seen before (and some bw too). Whether I am walking on campus (predominately white university), going to the gym, or walking in to a store. Guys that I don’t say ANYTHING to or don’t even LOOK at always has something to say about me for some reason. You walk by and don’t speak because you know you DON’T know them and they didn’t speak to you either:
            bm “that girl (sometimes says b*tch) thinks she’s fine”
            me: “I don’t think I am fine I think I dont know you”
            bm: “shut up b*tch”
            me: “you are just saying that because I didn’t speak to but you didn’t speak to me either, so does that mean you think you’re fine too?”
            bm: “f*ck you b*tch”

            And numerous other scenarios. It doesn’t matter where I am, if I don’t look at them or say anything to or speak to them, they always have something to say. Mind you I know none of these guys and I don’t want ANY of them (they are always ugly as hell anyway and I perfer wm). Bm always want attention and I think they get mad when you don’t acknowledge them.
            I was going to ask you guys why do you think they do this to me? But, I just answered my own question, bc they want attention and their egos get bruised when you don’t acknowledge them.

          • ink says:

            I forgot to mention that I don’t say anything to any of them anymore. I just let them talk their s@#% and ignore them. Some white guys have said that to me too (she thinks she’s fine). When I walk by and don’t speak to them either. I promise I don’t act like I think I am fine. I just act like don’t come at me with no bulls@#$! I am not with it. I don’t even have a frown on my face just a blank/straight face.

          • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

            Truth P,

            I am sorry for your experiences as well. That is so awful. Thank you for your words and prayers. I will be praying for you as well.

            For me the experiences were so bad and surprising it just all runs into a blur. After some point I think I informally disengaged (out of a desire for safety) prior to finding the blogs.

            I am grateful that I have the info I have now as everything makes sense and I now know that I am not crazy or flawed.

    • mobile68 says:

      “I also hadn’t made the connection between this scapegoating and the fact that most self-proclaimed Good Black Men™ measure themselves and their manhood (such as it is) by what Pookie and Ray-Ray are doing or not doing; *not* by what mostly functional, nonblack men are doing. The mind boggles.”

      But most importantly, bm measure their worth by the white man’s yardstick, then turn around and scapegoat Pookie & ’em like the white man do to them.

      The oppressed is now doing the oppressing. SMH.

  9. Pam in FL says:

    I read Von’s post, too (followed the link from here), and I agree with her completely. I commented on the post as well.

    And, like you, Khadija, I also had my eyes opened a little wider:

    *Khadija’s quote* “I also hadn’t made the connection between this scapegoating and the fact that most self-proclaimed Good Black Men™ measure themselves and their manhood (such as it is) by what Pookie and Ray-Ray are doing or not doing; *not* by what mostly functional, nonblack men are doing. The mind boggles.”

    It’s so obvious, isn’t it, once it’s pointed out? Von’s exactly right in her post. But I didn’t see it before.

    I wouldn’t tell black women NOT to date a black man, ever, even though I stopped doing that very same thing years ago, but the odds are long (and getting longer every day) that she will be able to find a prince among black men here in this country. The cultural toxicity of black male culture in the U.S. is both pervasive and infectious, and works against such a miracle.

    When I think about my father and grandfather (both departed now), and what kind of black men they were, and I contrast that with what is available to black women today, it makes my head spin. Neither one of them would have had any kind of patience with these knee-grows like we have today, the way they treat women, the way they treat their children, etc. Sigh.

    Well, I feel lucky I grew up with those two good men around me, at least. I made some mistakes when I was younger as a sista soldier and race-loyal dater, but I finally come out from under the ether, remembered the examples of good men my father and grandfather displayed to me every day of their lives, and got back on track. But a lot of these black girls and young women have never seen anything except dysfunction put in front of them their whole lives. What kind of men are they going to choose to lay down with?

    • Pam In FL,

      You said, “It’s so obvious, isn’t it, once it’s pointed out? Von’s exactly right in her post. But I didn’t see it before.”

      Yes, I’m amazed that I didn’t see that connection before. But it all goes to show how, despite our best efforts, we often become almost blind to high-frequency bizarre behaviors.

      You said, “I wouldn’t tell black women NOT to date a black man, ever, even though I stopped doing that very same thing years ago, but the odds are long (and getting longer every day) that she will be able to find a prince among black men here in this country. The cultural toxicity of black male culture in the U.S. is both pervasive and infectious, and works against such a miracle.”

      I agree. The distinction I make isn’t about a man being racially “Black.” It’s about how dysfunctional the masses of (mostly fatherless) modern African-American males are at this point. I would tell a marriage-minded BW to bypass the vast majority of AA males.

      Expect Success!

  10. Muse says:

    What’s even more humorous and disturbing is that the few Black Nationalist folks who acknowledge the problems caused by Black men in the community still insist that sistas should “hang in there.” I give them the ultimate side eye because what are Black women supposed to hang onto? Some people are so delusional that I wonder if they secretly hate themselves and think they serve the scraps and left overs life has to offer. If we base BW marriage options solely on numbers, some women will still be left out because we out number black men. Therefore I wonder why are people so hostile when marriage minded black women are advised to consider expanding their options to non-AA men? From my personal experience especially in college I didn’t get black guys asking me out until they saw me on a date with White or Non-Black men. I thought it was a one time incident until I started seeing a pattern but that’s another topic for another day.

    • Muse,

      You said, “From my personal experience especially in college I didn’t get black guys asking me out until they saw me on a date with White or Non-Black men. I thought it was a one time incident until I started seeing a pattern but that’s another topic for another day.”

      This is because BM are basically followers who take their cues about women’s desirability from the WM (and other types of nonblack men) who dominate BM in every multiracial society on this planet. I talked about this behavior pattern in the post I mentioned at the end of this essay, “If You Really Want To Help Black Girls, Marry One Of This Planet’s Dominant, Alpha-Men”:

      …This is because most men of color on this planet take their cues in assessing women’s desirability from White men. In terms of raw power, White men are the dominant men on this planet. Whatever White men feel is desirable, other men will follow their lead and buy into that belief.

      African-American males are generally followers on this planet. They are not the dominant, Alpha males on this planet who get to decide which groups of women are considered attractive. Black men take their lead from the dominant White men. Whoever the dominant White men feel is attractive (White women and Asian women in general, and individual Black women), many Black men will follow their lead and parrot whatever these dominant White men say about these women. For example, I didn’t start hearing many African-American men saying that the dark-skinned Mrs. Obama is attractive until after the White media and White men were publicly talking about how she’s glamorous and reminiscent of Jacqueline Kennedy.

      When more dominant, powerful, Alpha-male White men marry Black women, then Black men will stop slandering Black women. Either out of their habit of taking their cues from White men, or out of fear of offending this emerging critical mass of White men who view Black women as attractive and desirable.

      More and more individual African-American women living well by being married to quality men is the long-term solution to most of African-American women’s collective problems.

      If you really want to help the African-American girls coming behind you, set a good example for them by marrying a quality husband from among this planet’s dominant Alpha men.

      Once the BM slaves you described saw that you had been “validated” by the nonblack men you were dating (especially WM), then they bought into those nonblack men’s validation of your attractiveness and value. Blunt talk translation: Once the BM slaves saw that nonblack men they (not so secretly) believe are superior to them assigned value to you, then the BM slaves jumped on their master’s bandwagon of desiring you.

      Expect Success!

  11. As I noted on Von’s post it’s statistically impossible to get a 72% OOW rate exclusively from Pookie’s kids. I realized back when I was dating in the late-eighties and early-nineties that this mindset is prevalent amongst ALL black men, not just those living the “thug life.” In fact, AA culture is the only one I’ve encountered that gets it’s identity from those at the bottom of the social structure, as opposed to those at the top. So you have these guys with multiple degrees trying to live like Tupac. There’s a nihilism to AA culture that none of us will survive unless we put forth the effort to escape.

    I’ve never dated a thug in my life. Most of the men I dated were professionals; engineers, architects and quite a few service academy grads. I was engaged to a real-live naval aviator at one point. Those relationships didn’t work out for the exact same reason, none of those guys, despite having advanced degrees and coming from a middle-class background did not have middle-class values. They weren’t family men in any sense of the word. When I would mention wanting to stay at home until my children were at least 2 to 3 years old they’d start talking that “golddigger” stuff. And more than one told me “…if you want that white picket fence stuff you need to find yourself a white boy.” Of course, none of them thought that I would do exactly that. More than one black man I know, including a Cornell trained doctor said he couldn’t understand why any black man would get married. One guy, middle class and a freaking architect said there was nothing wrong with living together and having babies. Needless to say I stopped talking to him right away.

    Looking back at the last four black men I dated I can’t believe that only one of them married, and he divorced after less than two years. The rest are still living the bedhopping life, despite being in their mid-forties.

    • Roslyn,

      You said, “As I noted on Von’s post it’s statistically impossible to get a 72% OOW rate exclusively from Pookie’s kids.”

      Exactly.

      You said, “I realized back when I was dating in the late-eighties and early-nineties that this mindset is prevalent amongst ALL black men, not just those living the “thug life.” In fact, AA culture is the only one I’ve encountered that gets it’s identity from those at the bottom of the social structure, as opposed to those at the top. So you have these guys with multiple degrees trying to live like Tupac. There’s a nihilism to AA culture that none of us will survive unless we put forth the effort to escape.”

      ITA.

      You said, “Looking back at the last four black men I dated I can’t believe that only one of them married, and he divorced after less than two years. The rest are still living the bedhopping life, despite being in their mid-forties.”

      The bedhopping life is what the vast majority of AA male professionals I’ve known are doing. Including the married ones.

      Expect Success!

    • ak says:

      Well then those bedhoppers are going to end up exactly like Khadija’s lawyer acquaintance: all alone when something goes wrong and they start to need somebody.

      • AK,

        Many of the unmarried, professional AA male bedhoppers’ basic game plan is that they’ll marry a much-younger BW church lady when they feel themselves getting close to old age for real. They figure that when they hit their early 50s, then they’ll marry a 30-something or younger AA church lady. That way, they’ll have a younger wife ready and prepped to take care of them once they become truly elderly and sickly.

        Where my BM attorney acquaintance messed up is that he had the stroke before he had identified or started dating a much younger BW church girl to take care of him when he got old and sickly. Of course, he didn’t expect anything like that to happen. He figured he had more time to sleep around (he was around his mid- to late 40s when he had the stroke). It turned out that he had waited too long to start looking for a church girl to take care of him in his future old age and poor health. If he had timed it better, then he probably would have gotten over the hump.

        And since he had the stroke while he has still in obvious player mode, none his jumpoffs wanted to be bothered with taking care of his rear end. None of the women he was sleeping with were actual girlfriends. So, they didn’t feel any obligation to help him.

        Of course, he complained bitterly about his SELF-created difficulties. Oh, well.

        Expect Success!

        • Lisa99 says:

          The BW church girl racket is another thing on my long list of complaints about the traditional AA Christian church.

          So I know a BW, 35, never married, who is getting married next June. She talks about how she was so glad she waited on “God’s timing” and didn’t force things on her own, etc. A pastor introduced her to her future husband and within three months they were engaged. There wasn’t any formal proposal (which is not necessarily a big deal, but keep reading), but he just brought up the fact that he wanted to marry her and they just kinda fell into an engagement.

          Now… I later learn that this man is 49, previously married, been divorced for about 6-7 years. Don’t know about kids. I know nothing about this man and he could be wonderful. But it’s rather fishy to me how quickly he made a move on a younger (but never-married and ready) BW church girl… as if he was on that plan of making sure he found a “good churchgoing woman” right at the time he realized he was too old to keep bedhopping.

          And now, the woman is so excited talking about what God delivered her and folks at the church are using this story as an example of God answering prayers. Now I don’t necessarily believe that God is in the matchmaking business, but if so, I find it hard to believe that this 35-year-old, never-married woman’s pre-ordained destiny is a divorced man darn near 50 years old…

          I just smiled when I heard the story and wished the woman well.

          • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

            I pray not, but why do I get the feeling that this woman is going to be a statistic of some type?

            Has she checked his background and finances?

            I am sure that the minister did this because “she was good for him” not the other way around.

            I had this done to me once – not marriage, but I had an ex male friend introduce me to a guy for a relationship.

            Which never got off the ground because:

            1. Dude was “separated”
            2. Dude was a convicted woman beater – beating his wife and chasing her down the street
            3. Dude had a drug habit

            I could go on.

            The thing is the guy who introduced us “knew” him. He knew all of this and when I asked him (enraged) why did he set me up with this man – he said bc I thought “you’d be good for him”.

            My welfare was no where in that picture at all!

            I am feeling like that is what is happening with this woman. That she was “selected”. I am sure that pastor knows her, her weaknesses, issues etc. And I am sure he knows “dirt” about dude that he will never reveal and when it ever hits the fan – he will be in dude’s corner all the way.

            I think Pookie and Nice Guy™ take up for one another. They work hand in hand in destroying BW. They look out for one another and fuel each other. They have a code/contract. As long as Nice Guy™ doesn’t actually throw salt in Pookie’s game (like stopping him or protecting women from him) Nice Guy™ is allowed to use him in order to run his own brand of game on women. And as much as Nice Guy claims to hate Pookie – they never rat them out. They always jump on the women who were naive or vulnerable after the fact. After the damage has been done.

          • Zoopath says:

            @Oshun: Lord have mercy. It’s as if you were a trusty mule or some other beast of burden. It reminds me of the part of the color purple when Pa was recommending Celie for marriage to mister.

        • Lisa99,

          You said, “Now… I later learn that this man is 49, previously married, been divorced for about 6-7 years. Don’t know about kids. I know nothing about this man and he could be wonderful. But it’s rather fishy to me how quickly he made a move on a younger (but never-married and ready) BW church girl… as if he was on that plan of making sure he found a “good churchgoing woman” right at the time he realized he was too old to keep bedhopping.”

          What’s fishy to me is how so many AA women—especially AA church women—choose to be blind and dumb about this obvious behavior pattern. How do they not notice that these breaking-down/broke down BM players only come to them when they sense they’re coming to the point when they’ll need somebody to physically take care of them? What happened to these church girls’ pet phrase about being “unequally yoked”?

          You said, ” I find it hard to believe that this 35-year-old, never-married woman’s pre-ordained destiny is a divorced man darn near 50 years old… “

          Me too. I’m just disgusted at how the AA church (and mosque) serve up BW for exploitation. And then call this “God’s will.” Somehow, God doesn’t will that type of bs for any other ethnic group or race of women in the US!

          Expect Success!

          • I think there are a lot of black men like your friend. After all, they are more likely to die young than any other group. My guess is that one of the reasons is that they don’t marry. Studies show that married men live longer primarily because they have wives who take care of them and insist that they go to the doctor. Let’s face it, the bedhopping life is hard on the body, and if you’re already fragile and prone to ailments and disease you’re setting yourself up for an early death.

            So a lot of these men who think they’ll find a nice church girl to take care of them in their old age, aren’t going to live that long. I know too many black men who’ve had strokes, heart attacks or have been diagnosed with prostate cancer in their forties. Most men don’t get prostate cancer until they’re in their 60s or 70s and it typically takes a decade or more to kill. This is not the case with black men. Further, strokes, especially in young men, can be a symptom of repeated STDs. Some, especially syphilis destroy the blood vessels in the brain. Another effect of the bed-hopping life. Yet another symptom of AA nihilism.

          • Roslyn,

            ITA.

            Let me emphasize that this individual is NOT—and has never been—my “friend.” I don’t have people like that as friends. He’s only an acquaintance.

            Expect Success!

          • Karen R says:

            The AA women who fall for this trap misinterpret the issue of redemption as it relates to these broke-down men.

  12. Joyousnerd says:

    Wow, powerful commentary here, Von really knocked it out of the park. Of course Good Black Men are not going to step in and stop Pookie and Jaquarvius…. those low class BM are creating the wonderful life that these middle class men are savoring!

    Without low rent thugs creating hellish conditions for black women and black children, BW would never be so desperate and willing to tolerate abuse, cheating and a whole host of other foolishness. The shortage is what gives Good Black Man the ability to have a harem till he crumbles of old age. If those bums weren’t so incomparably degenerate, the Good Black Men would still miss the mark by miles compared to functional men of other races.

    I remember reading a month or so ago about some Ivory Tower academic types saying that black men should be excused from having to provide for their children at all, because they just seem to be unable to do so (not considering that these men are merely UNWILLING to do so) and it wouldn’t be fair to ask them to pay child support because they just can’t. I nearly exploded in disgust and rage. Saccharin liberalism gone wild.

    I’m sure it must be pretty obvious to those who work in the Child Support agencies that black men just don’t make good dads. They probably spend lots of time and effort trying unsuccessfully to collect from BM; it’s easier just to write them all off!

    *Caveat* Sure, there are deadbeat scum in every race. But the black collective has reached the point of no return… these men refuse to make even the most basic efforts to provide for their own offspring! What kind of MAN is that? *shudders in disgust*

    • JoyousNerd,

      You said, “Wow, powerful commentary here, Von really knocked it out of the park.”

      Yes, she did.

      You said, “Of course Good Black Men are not going to step in and stop Pookie and Jaquarvius…. those low class BM are creating the wonderful life that these middle class men are savoring!

      Without low rent thugs creating hellish conditions for black women and black children, BW would never be so desperate and willing to tolerate abuse, cheating and a whole host of other foolishness. The shortage is what gives Good Black Man the ability to have a harem till he crumbles of old age. If those bums weren’t so incomparably degenerate, the Good Black Men would still miss the mark by miles compared to functional men of other races.”

      You’re pointing out yet another angle that hadn’t occurred to me. It’s not just the matter of numerical shortfalls in the physical numbers of AA males, it’s that:

      Pookie’s and Ray-Ray’s depravity PLUS (+)

      AA women’s indoctrination to limit themselves to dating BM

      CREATES (=) the desperate, Booty Call Corps/Harem of lonely, single AA women than Good Black Men™ love to exploit.

      So, it turns out that Pookie and Ray-Ray play an integral role in creating Good Black Men’s™ harem of desperate, exploitable AA women. In addition to cowardice, no wonder Good Black Men™ have no real incentive for chastising Pookie and Ray-Ray.

      My, my, my…how low can it all go? {shaking my head}

      Expect Success!

      • Karen says:

        Good Black Men™ are as rare as common sense in the BC.

        As for how low can it go…we already know where all this is leading..to Rwanda-like conditions.

        Actions have always spoken louder than words and I have always judged people by their actions.

        The so-called Good Black Men™ receive an “F” as they have failed on every count that decent men are measured on.

        If they were as good as they believed, then they would be taking action right now to take back their neighborhoods and be the decent husbands and caregiving fathers they proclaim to be.

        Yes, there are those that do take care of their wives and children but I have seen no concerted effort by Good Black Men™ to address the ills of the BC… Instead what we have seen is that they profit from it.

        I left such so-called Good Black Men™ long ago as their actions told me all I needed to know, namely, that I could not build a life with such a man.

        I married one of the planet’s Dominant Alpha Males, and he is exactly what a decent, protective, caregiving male is supposed to be. It is “encoded” in his DNA to provide and protect. AA BW should accept no less from their future mates.

      • Karen,

        You said, “Good Black Men™ are as rare as common sense in the BC.”

        {chuckling} Ridiculous, but too true.

        You said, “As for how low can it go…we already know where all this is leading..to Rwanda-like conditions.”

        Well, there it is…

        You said, “I married one of the planet’s Dominant Alpha Males, and he is exactly what a decent, protective, caregiving male is supposed to be. It is “encoded” in his DNA to provide and protect. AA BW should accept no less from their future mates.”

        Yes, and the planet’s Dominant Alpha Males don’t need special ed training in how to protect and provide. And, unlike most Good Black Men™, they’re not resentful of women who expect them to protect and provide. Like you said, it’s practically encoded in their DNA. Or, to be what I believe is more precise—WM tend to come from a healthier culture and intact families where they were raised and groomed by their own fathers to be effective protectors and providers.

        In general, the AA women who marry non-AA men and nonblack men—and these women’s children—tend to have better lives. Because their nonblack husbands are MAKING it better for them.

        Expect Success!

    • ak says:

      JoyousNerd:

      I remember reading a month or so ago about some Ivory Tower academic types saying that black men should be excused from having to provide for their children at all, because they just seem to be unable to do so (not considering that these men are merely UNWILLING to do so) and it wouldn’t be fair to ask them to pay child support because they just can’t. I nearly exploded in disgust and rage. Saccharin liberalism gone wild.

      I wouldn’t even get mad at the too far gone liberalism, I mean if BM don’t feel ashamed of this and don’t want to change their ways, then they leave the door open for people to say all sorts of garbage. I mean were BM batting an eyelid at what that person said? THEY are the ones who should bat an eyelid, not you! Years ago in the US when I still lived there, one BM criminal’s lawyer used a defense of ‘My client has genes that make him pre-disposed to evil. It’s something he can’t help’ it was in the papers at the time, and of course that black criminal didn’t care about the image of BM and how that sounds to people.

      A long time ago when I used to read Essence a BM wrote something about the dangers of low expectations that people have for BM and the low expectations BM may have for themselves such as holding a parade everytime a BM goes to college, and even Chris Rock has made jokes about this same exact thing. That’s why divestment is what BW all need to do, because it looks like certain other people don’t care where they go in life, and don’t care who or what they destroy.

      Do people really think that BW have time to go around ‘punishing’ people regarding what they will, or won’t do? Not me. If I create different streams of income tomorrow, invest in property, and move to Hawaii within a few years, and you don’t do any of that, and you’re in debt, and not resolving it, and you’re unemployed, am I punishing you?

      So why the heck can’t a BW divest from people who no longer give a darn and haven’t given a darn for a while?

      • sisterlocgirl says:

        Now that’s deep. Let’s just absolve BM of any adult, personal responsibility? Simply because they can’t cope? REALLY? I don’t see anyone making excuses/exceptions/special circumstances for BW in this regard. If anything its just another way to heap the personal responsibilities of the entire aa collective on the already overburdened shoulders of BW. Faith’s blog has a very interesting post regarding these Ivory Tower intellectuals and their discussions regarding our livs. I said it there & i’ll say it again here…be very careful whom you take advice from. If the intellectuals are doing something different than what they spout for you, look out. Chances are there is some benefit to keeping you where you are. A great many people benefit from the mule/mammy/downtrodden/martyr/sista soldier/race woman position that many of us have adopted. Gather good information from sources who are on your side and make decisions based on YOUR best interest because everyone else on earth does this, except aa folks.

        • joyousnerd says:

          Yes, I concur 100%. Every shut eye ain’t asleep, as the saying goes. Especially when our collective is in the state of disarray that it is, it’s no surprise that people would try and pimp us in various ways to their own benefit.

          I have to wonder if WW’s kneejerk defense of BM’s foolishness isn’t meant to try and keep us BW brainwashed into settling for DBR men *instead* of marrying out in large numbers. These WW don’t really care about coddling BM, they just want their dysfunction confined to the black construct, far away from them and their families. And they REALLY don’t want to see us married off to alpha males in large numbers.

          The whole social construct of the hideous untouchable BW came to be in order to try and keep WM from choosing us over them. Miscegenation was primarily outlawed to keep WM from sharing their resources with US (not to protect WW from BM as the common belief is) because during those years every woman knew to marry a man who could provide a good life for her and her children! A BM was in no position to do that, period, compared to a WM. There was ZERO risk of WW defecting and marrying BM. For what? To suffer and starve?

          Because men are visual creatures, and because BW are so beautiful, many WM wanted us for brides. Rather than take the risk of WM choosing to marry BW in large numbers (as WM did with Indians, and Mexican women, and now Asian women) it was outlawed so WW would have better access to those alpha men.

          WW *benefit* by keeping us chained to these DBRs, or at gaslighting us into thinking that we are stuck. So they empathize, or say the situation isn’t that bad, or that we can talk BM into acting right, or we should fight the power, government programs blah blah blah… anything, anything at ALL but seizing our beauty and moving into the Asian Woman category: Serious Competition.

          • ak says:

            JoyousNerd:

            The whole social construct of the hideous untouchable BW came to be in order to try and keep WM from choosing us over them. Miscegenation was primarily outlawed to keep WM from sharing their resources with US (not to protect WW from BM as the common belief is) because during those years every woman knew to marry a man who could provide a good life for her and her children!

            Oh yes, even Tim Wise said this in one of his speeches or writings. I think I saw this subject once on his website or some website that was talking about Tim Wise (?)

      • joyousnerd says:

        You make an excellent point… when BM are showing out all over planet earth to such an extreme level, it’s not really out of bounds for people to state their observations of it aloud.

  13. Anne1 says:

    Muse…”I think the career-orientated/ professional DBRs are more dangerous because their dysfunctional thinking and behavior isn’t that obvious to the naked eye.” I don’t date thugs either so this was my experience to a T. I dated the professional DBRs, and every they represented in the end is they were men who are good at being bad regardless of their high status above the thugs living Pookie and Ray-Ray.

    Three times in a row and for 12 months each, yes 12 months I was dating the look-good-on-paper BM, but they were really just “representatives” who were just playing the role of a good man all the while hiding their true character. I suspect that’s how good decent woman end up in relationships with a DBR, at least it was this way in my case.

    I got rid of the rubbish each time but the time invested left me shaken and unsure of myself or my decision making process. I took time off from dating, added more to my list of standards and with renewed strength I was willing to date again, but vet more carefully. I recently purchased Evia’s Vetting newsletter that was recommended here and my goodness, it was so damn good I cried a river the day I received it. Please do yourself a favor and get it. It validated so many feelings I’ve been having since dealing with those three clowns.

    I shudder to think if I hadn’t ended it with any of those DBRs they never would have (of course) and were shocked when I left them. Please. I have friends who are married to DBRBM who suffer. That’s crazy, I want to get married but I am not about to sign up for that!

    What’s truly sickening about DBRs is they target decent women who they know are good or above their level because they themselves don’t want to be with a woman who is DBR. One of them actually admitted this to me! Good Black Man is an oxymoron and I can’t be bothered with the slim chance and slim pickings. Good riddance to bad rubbish, sheesh.

    • Anne1,

      You said, “What’s truly sickening about DBRs is they target decent women who they know are good or above their level because they themselves don’t want to be with a woman who is DBR.”

      Oh no, DBRBM don’t want DBRBW. DBR-Good Black Men™ want trustworthy, faithful, responsible BW who will provide an emotionally safe and materially comfy place for these Good Black Men™ to land and/or crash if something goes wrong in their lives.

      Expect Success!

      • Joyousnerd says:

        Yes, they want a quality BW in their pocket to provide for them financially, to cover up their mistakes, lie for them, take care of their kids and provide sex on demand. Many of them want this in addition to having free reign to sex up any other woman of any other race as well! SMDH. And then have the nerve to expect his black wife/babymother to willingly accept and tolerate it. Insanity. What’s most insane of all is that women tolerate it!

        I noticed as a small child that kids with black fathers had more difficult lives, usually, no matter the mother’s race. Small wonder I’ve always preferred non-BM.

        In the one relationship I had with a BM it was like living in opposite-world… all of the decency, courtesy, basic respect etc that I’d taken for granted before became crystal clear after that experience.

        I know this abusive dynamic exists because BW feel they have no options. I know this because that DBR clown actually threatened me by saying he’d leave and go get a white girl. He really expected me to freak out. I just laughed out loud and said “Why would I care about that?” He was stymied. Then he said “Well, I’ll get a Chinese girl!” I just chuckled and said “Go ahead, if you can find one. Are you operating under the misconception that *I* cannot find someone else? LOL, Because I can replace you quite easily, with a man who acts like he has sense.” We weren’t together for much longer after that fight, but it was a very illuminating experience to say the least.

  14. mochachoc says:

    I know several young BM who truly believe they are a catch because they have a ‘good job’, earning above average wages (which isn’t all that) and have never been involved with the police. This is the benchmark. And you know what? BW are falling for it hook, line and sinker. It makes me sick to my stomach. And what is it with church women that they will mop up a ‘brok down’ (excuse my colloquialism), past their prime, no good, recently converted in the nick of time, used up BM. Oh my goodness, WHY?

    We need to hang these specimens out to dry.

    • Mochachoc,

      You said, “And what is it with church women that they will mop up a ‘brok down’ (excuse my colloquialism), past their prime, no good, recently converted in the nick of time, used up BM. Oh my goodness, WHY?”

      Because they’ve been brainwashed by the mostly-dysfunctional and predator-enabling AA church.

      Expect Success!

    • FoxyCleopatra says:

      ITA

      I was on a black-oriented site probably about a year ago where I witnessed one of the usual ‘black love/where are all our bm’ conversations going on. Some foolish kneegrow said something along the lines of:

      “There are several good bm out there. Bw just need to change our ‘parameters’ (i.e. of determining what constitutes a ‘good’ bm).”

      He then went on to use himself as an example saying that:

      “He is a good black man because he has a steady job, does not hit his girlfriend (whom he was apparently engaged to) and ‘treats her nice’.”……Then ended with the gem……”I cheat on her but since I still treat her nice I dont think there is anything wrong with it.”

      So basically, he was saying that if black women stop being silly and instead began tolerating various bm’s sexual irresponsibility, bw may just be able to find their ‘black prince’.

      • Zoopath says:

        So, we just change the definition of the word “good” and then everybody qualifies! Fabulous. What a mess.

  15. shocol says:

    This very topic has been on my mind for the last few days. What I’ve noticed, at least online, with BM, is that every BM is a “good black man” until the stuff hits the fan. Then Pookie, Ray-Ray, and black thugs make an appearance in the conversation.

    I’m with Von as far as not trusting BM. I think they’re very dishonest amongst themselves. Which means they won’t self-police. Which does not bode well for BW looking for authentic “good black men”.

    • Shocol,

      You said, “What I’ve noticed, at least online, with BM, is that every BM is a “good black man” until the stuff hits the fan. Then Pookie, Ray-Ray, and black thugs make an appearance in the conversation.”

      {chuckling} I’ve noticed that too.

      Expect Success!

  16. MsMellody says:

    To Anne1;

    Girl go ‘head!!! I am taking your hand into mine and symbolically along with you I am doing the “happy dance” with you!! I am so happy to read that you “let the trash go!!”.

    Just so you know a little about my story..I was exactly you. I mean I was the good woman who always ALWAYS hoped for the best, looked ONLY for the professional BM..but these professional BMs turned out to be Ray Rays in disguise!

    So bravo to you for standing up for yourself and learning from Evia’s wonderful newsletter. Just so you know –the years that I lost dealing with those idiots I just pushed those regrets out of my mind..and moved on to the Alpha males of this world, dated on line, lost a lot of weight, put my head back together and pulled myself up with prayer and I am IR married and oh so happy every SINGLE SOLITARY day. So keep moving forward in your life, and take it from me – when you do meet that wonderful Alpha male who will MOST LIKELY be white – your friends will doubt it and do their little naysaying. BUT and this is IMPORTANT I guaruntee you that those same women friends of yours who will continue to be single and sad will slide up next to you for advice and how you went about finding such a wonderful Alpha male husband!!

    There have been many BW who have commented here and at other BWE blogs about that SAME phenomenon. So Anne1 don’t look back and keep moving into your stress free and well loved life!

  17. Monique says:

    Wonderful post, Khadijah as always.

    I totaly cosign onto this post and several of the comments written thus far. I beleive that the “Good Black Man” moniker is an oxymoron; truly decent, good black men of character simply do not exist. There may be a few who do right by their own woman or child, but the vast majority do not check, condemn or reign in the outrageous behavior of the Ray Rays and Pookies within the defunct BC. Therefore, those BM who claim to be “good” still are not acting in a protective role for the masses of BW and Black children, they are only taking care (albeit minimally) their own.

    Additionally, your comment about BM measuring themsleves aganist the lowest common denominator (i.e, the pookies and thugs) instead of functioning, healthy men in the global village has always baffled me. Indeed it’s baffling to me that most AA choose to emulate utter foolishness and pass it off as “culture.” It appears to me that BM simply do not want to do better, they simply do not want to put in the work to make themselves competitive in this world. It is apparent from their actions that being nothing more than entertainers (coons are more apropos), athletes, “rappers” and mandingo stud muffins is fine by them.

    If BW want a more abundant life, we will HAVE to date and marry quality men from the global village and leave Ray Ray and Pookie to their own demise.

  18. CNS says:

    Good character doesn’t require announcements, pronoucements or declarations. A good man, nice guy, gentleman informs you of this by his ACTIONS… BRAVO!!!

  19. Victor A says:

    Khadija, I often come to “Sojourn” here from time to time, as a man, and more so a human being for a sense of wholeness. And it never ceases to amaze me that as a brother and a father I have to deal with what single AA women have to deal with. I am what I call a civilized human being. Every “man” should really know he is truly a boy, on the inside, at his core inner being, he should know this. I was with my youngest daughter one day on the MARTA, the public subway/el-train system here in Atlanta, and an AA male was talking to some other women and during his conversation he said “I’m a grown man dog.” I immediatly told my daughter (age 23) that any time you hear a male say “I’m a grown man…” to run. Because he is probably living off the woman he has a child with or his mother. These are males. A man, a human being, would never call himself a dog.
    However, back to men of the subject. I my oldest daughter is “dating” the former sheriff of the county that we reside. Now, let me be clear. He was not a sheriff’s deputy. He was THE sheriff. He has turned out to be the worst example of a male. He lives a life of debauchery. Of course I have some very serious issues to deal with concerning her (my god), but he appears to be such a moral person when infact….
    My elderbrother, Jehovah’s Witness minister, State police officer, holder of advanced degress, constantly measures himself against Pookie and Ray Ray as his measuring stick of accomplishment in life. This is the use of the lowest common denominator as a measuring stick. And, he secretly lives a life equal to Pookie and Ray Ray. Lying, stealing and down right low down.
    My nephew is Pookie and Ray Ray. He does not work, he lives with and off the woman he has a child with but, has no intention to ever marry and often put his hands on her. He sets this example for his son. He is there all day long, the 2 year old son sees his father at home and sees his mother go to work each day.

    For me to grow past being a male, took and takes constant work. It is a constant review of oneself,To place a high value on oneself. These males believe they know it all and have it all together, never realizing what the “all” is. Men that come here to fight refuse to see themselves.
    Sadly, my contention with the three aformentioned males, continues on a daily basis. It’s truly a sad sad situation and only gives creedence to your correct notion that we are truly a AA collective, and not a community. I applaud any woman that will have a man of any racial background do what a man is to do for a woman in his life.
    Whats the solution? There are several answers to this question, yet what I and my circle work to instill the importance of good character, through internal martial arts. Some boys come some boys go. Some girls come, some girls go, but surprisingly most do not stay!!! Because it is work on oneself and work outside, reading is required and most boys and girls do not stay because they don’t want to read outside of school. I just don’t know.

    • Hi Victor,

      {waving}

      What you’re describing with your oldest daughter is every true father’s nightmare. {sigh} I’ll pray that she quickly moves on to a quality man.

      Like you, I’m also displeased when I look at many of the (physically) adult males in my family. Out of the many, many cousins I have, there are only 2-3 actual family men. The rest are Underclass Pookies, Working Class Pookies, or Upper Middle-Class Covert Ray-Ray With An Advanced Degree And An Impressive Job Title. It’s sickening. {sigh}

      You asked, “Whats the solution?”

      Sadly, “Saigon” has fallen. At this point, there’s not much other than suffering and death for BW within the AA collective and its social environments.

      So, we need to send our Black girls out into the outer nonblack global village to find their future husbands. This means we need to groom and orient the Black girls and young BW in our lives toward entry into the outer society. AA girls and women know how to work in the outer world. But they haven’t been raised to successfully socialize in the outer world. AA women have been programmed to shun socializing in the outer world. This must change if we want the AA girls who come behind us to have fulfilling lives.

      For many of us, this means dropping the cultural Oppositional Defiant Disorder-type of attitude that many AAs automatically take toward the outer, nonblack—especially White—world.

      “Saigon” (what used to be a semi-functioning AA community) has been completely overrun by deranged, destructive new-school AA mutants. It’s gone. It won’t be coming back. Those of us who are survivors are going to have to adapt to life in the outer world. This means dropping a lot of the knee-jerk oppositional, and anti-White attitudes that made sense during earlier eras, but now only serve to keep AA women imprisoned in all-AA social and physical hellpits.

      Expect Success!

    • ak says:

      Victor A:

      Men that come here to fight refuse to see themselves.

      This is true and I’ve said it for a while, and thta’s what’s going on now at Von’s blog. When I told my Mom about how black men protest against For Colored Girls Who’ve Considered Suicide… when it first came out as a play back in the 70s even though it was critically acclaimed and how black men protested again when The Color Purple movie came out in the 80s, and even she said ‘Hmph. They never want to hear the truth about themselves.’

  20. FoxyCleopatra says:

    Hello everyone,

    I have been silently reading but not commenting over the past few months because most of the time, by the time I come online, the conversation has usually gone on but I generally agree with most of whats said.

    Fortunately, I have come early enough this time. I have read Von’s post but I am yet to read the comments over there but there are a few things I want to add here.

    I think Von is spot on with here observations, however, knowing the way several bw choose to think, some may interprete it the wrong way. What I benefit from the example used with the Umoja women is that they saw the situation and got away from all the nonsense and made their lives better on their own terms, irresepective of what ‘their’ men thought of it. There is however, the danger that some silly bw (who constatntly lurk on these empowerment sites) may then literally take this to mean that since these so-called ‘good black men’ are’nt really ever going to show up and sweep them off their feet, they should then forget about actually having a quality man in their lives and instead just build communities with themselves and remain single for the rest of their lives. Yes bw should find like minded pple and form communities but I find it hard to believe that for the masses of black women, marriage is not something that they desire (irrespective of whether or not they already have kids oow or not). In the grand scale of things, bw should forget about this nonsensical IBM fantasy and hedge their bets with finding worthy men in the global village.

    • FoxyCleopatra,

      I’m happy to hear from you! 🙂

      As I mentioned in my reply to Faith (who expressed many of the same concerns you’ve stated), these concerns are why I’m going to do a Part 2 to this post about what BW need to do next once they realize that Good Black Men™ have a symbiotic relationship with the Pookies and Ray-Rays.

      Expect Success!

    • vonnie says:

      that was also my concern with the original piece, that they would go out to be all “independent black woman village” and think that meant to never have any men (as one reader started talking about “well if they want to be lesbians, this works”) when the logical leap would be to then date guys who AREN’T African American, duh! That has always been an option. There’s a world of men out there who aren’t pookies and ray ray material.

  21. FoxyCleopatra says:

    @ LaJane Galt,

    Hi pls I directed a question to you on the ‘Remington Steele’ post. Could you be kind enough to check it out. Thanks

    I didnt want to post it here cos it would be off topic.

    Thnx a lot

  22. Anne1 says:

    Everyone are real GEMS and I love you all for turning the situation on it’s head.

    FoxyCleopatra “……Then ended with the gem……”I cheat on her but since I still treat her nice I dont think there is anything wrong with it.” Wow, that is a gem, and he sadly he really means it, and will never see anything wrong with this line of thinking.

    AK….”one BM criminal’s lawyer used a defense of ‘My client has genes that make him pre-disposed to evil.” Lord have mercy, this is what it’s come to. They’ve sunk to the deepest level of depravity and proud to display not having any desire of redeeming themselves. I laugh to remember a working class pookie proudly stating in the workplace…”I know I’m the blacksheep of my family” He is 46 years old, never married with 4 kids across the state and readily and proudly admits to living at home, never left home and don’t plan on leaving momma and ’em. Makes me so sick.

    MsMellody…”Girl go ‘head!!! I am taking your hand into mine and symbolically along with you I am doing the “happy dance” with you!! I am so happy to read that you “let the trash go!!”

    Thanks, I am in happiness land right along with you and none of the DBRs I encounter have in any effect on me, not anymore. I took a very long time to start dating again after my divorce. Then on one of first dates with a BM that never went anywhere he admitted that he was currently in a relationship but they weren’t at “full disclosure level” yet so this is perfectly okay. Not with me. I left the restaurant and he cussed me out via email the same night about not understanding his honesty. Like this was supposed to help. Sadly, he and the rest of them don’t understand because they hate that have the right to have standards and exercising those rights means excluding. Why get mad when you see me with a WM? DBRs at every level know they’re fighting a losing battle, they see larger numbers of BW refusing their advances, but yet they still refuse to change. Now who’s being real insane in the membrane with that foolishness?

    It’s a real mess and no amount of wishing it away will help. A few years ago I reached out to the one good brother I knew about perhaps helping me out by speaking to him on my behalf. Mind you this church going good man was married for 30 years, sending out daily prayers via email quietly said he wasn’t willing to talk to the brother. This after probing and asking 100 questions, relating his ways to the ways of “wayward brother” his words, not mine. He even helped me work on a “take a wayward brother brother to dinner” Powerpoint presentation that I was planning to introduce to the church leaders only to bow out after all of that. I was surprised but then again, looking back, I shouldn’t have been.

    Live and learn and I’ve learned a lot since then, and from you ladies. You ladies are fierce and I’m glad I found this place.

  23. hi Khadija and all-

    i followed the link over to Von’s and i have to say WOW! i am beyond excited that young women are now plain talking it. tell the truth and shame the devil. i am seeing changes already and am very happy for them.

    after visiting Von’s site, it helped me to see plainly what i could not ever put into words before. a few comments on this thread have helped to pull the truth even more succinctly together for me, and i am very grateful.

    for awhile now i have been simply stating that the “good” bm don’t really count because their collective silence is being read as consent for all the madness anyone with one partially functioning eye can clearly see. (ya don’t even need two or a third eye!)

    i visited your house early yesterday and once i followed the link i spent the balance of my time at Von’s reading her thoughts. i noticed a progression in her thoughts, much like my own thoughts have taken over the last few years. thank you for the link, as i knew nothing of her prior to it.

    since the time that i could no longer be quiet, in the interest of uh, solidarity, i have gone from mourning, to feeling quite sad, to finally being at a place that it does not matter to me what bm do at this point. they can get it together or not. they can pretend to be decent rather than doing the inner and outerwork necessary to actually become decent and respectable if they choose. really, at this point i could not care less. to care, at this point, seems like wasted energy to me. life is about choices and each is entitled theirs. i say this as the mother of a young black man.

    i find myself in a new place. i tend not to really have any dealings with non relative bm. there is but one that works with the firm i work with currently. this one is college educated, articulate, clean cut the whole nine. during a casual exchange he proceeded to broadcast that he didn’t date bw. all the non blks’ heads turned in my direction, my being the only bw present. when i laughed and said good, the nonblks laughed and the negro looked perturbed. lol. i simply mentally tossed him in the useless file and kept it moving.

    why? did this negro go out of his way to infiltrate my space to find out why i wasn’t bothered by his unsolicited anti bw declaration? lol. Khadija, i turned into a butterfly so fast, you would have been proud of me. light hearted, NO time to satisfy his little sick queries so he could (ooh a cuss word would make it plain!) but shall we say switch up on me and start sharpening those knives for my back. now he just kind of looks at me, i say hello and keep it moving. unless i am dealing with clients i have my ipod in my ear and he has no room to get in there. lol. THAT’S how that is going to go. i suspect he is fatherless because he acts like the girl that got all prettied up to impress but the one he wants to take notice ignores him. lol.

    in truth, the less dialogue with the damaged ones…the better for me. IF i am feeling patient i will deal with the bw and girls i see along my journey still lost in the sauce without a clue. and even then, i am learning not to be emotionally connected to their understanding or lack thereof. your posts and others’ have been greatly beneficial in helping me with this as well.

    it seems that folks are afraidor simply refuse to mention the obvious date out common sense conclusion. or at least call it right out in no uncertain terms. it takes a lot of courage to do this. i know when i was all “power to the people” railing on white folks for their mistreatment of bm, it took a long minute to fix my mouth to call it. and BOY! did it hurt initially. it is the final acknowledgment of the death. honestly, i felt angry with those that were freely proclaiming to the world that all was lost.

    you know, i was watching one of the latest videos of min farrakhan as he addressed the fact that the african american community is lying, gasping its last breaths, on its deathbed. he looked rather anguished as he acknowledged it. i was annoyed throughout his “speech” because it seems all the fiery talk is reserved for white folks and others. i have seen NO “good bm” come as sternly with other bm as they have demonstrated for decades, having no problem doing with others. i was still annoyed as he acknowledged that bw are suffering. i was annoyed as he did NOT segway into the causes of the suffering and get the men together. when he proceeded to address bw by saying that we need to “hold on” and that “bm are coming home”—ooooooh! if i could have gone through the screen and choked snot from him i would’ve! i would take my chances with the foi!

    it is hard to fix one’s mouth to tell it. THAT’S why folks aren’t. interesting enough, i later saw a shot of farrakhan all hugged up looking a little too comfortable to be appropriate with karrine stephans. uh huh. it’s a wrap for me. and i am thankful beyond thankful that more are waking up, finding their voices, exploring their choices and opting for a better life for themselves and their futures.

    on a sidenote- i am not an organic vegan food type of girl. i like filet mignon a little too much to even go there. in moderation of course. lol. the brazilian bbq with all the nonstep proteins coming to the table IS the business for me! i apologize for not providing links when i commented on that post or coming off like i was saying vegan or die. going forward, i will be more mindful to do so. though you should know doing so is not one of my strong points. i come from a look it up type of upbringing and old habits die hard. lol.

    thanks for yet another excellent post. which i read often even if i don’t comment. i look forward to your next one.

    blessings all in abundance.

    • FocusedPurpose,

      Hi, Sis!

      Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it.

      You said, “i visited your house early yesterday and once i followed the link i spent the balance of my time at Von’s reading her thoughts. i noticed a progression in her thoughts, much like my own thoughts have taken over the last few years. thank you for the link, as i knew nothing of her prior to it.”

      You’re welcome. Like Von, like you, I had a similar progession in my thoughts. As you know, I had been a Black Nationalist since college. Basically, it was DBR-so-called “conscious” BM’s statements and behaviors that PUSHED me out of my previous Black Nationalist beliefs. Listening—without wearing ideological blinders—to so-called “conscious” BM’s comments at various Black love/Black unity blogs conclusively showed me that AA women and children are on their own. And have been abandoned by BM to fend for themselves for at least the past 35 years.

      That’s exactly what I mean when I say that AA males’ mass behaviors are the greatest “recruiting sergeant” possible for the BWE message.

      You said, “since the time that i could no longer be quiet, in the interest of uh, solidarity, i have gone from mourning, to feeling quite sad, to finally being at a place that it does not matter to me what bm do at this point. they can get it together or not.”

      Same here. I only care about men—of any race or ethnicity—who are of VALUE to BW and Black children. Men who are of low- and no-value to BW and Black children aren’t on my radar. I don’t care what they think, say, or do. Nor do I care what happens to them. I talk about various issues touching on these useless males ONLY because so many of my sisters are in mental bondage to these useless males. And I want as many of my sisters as possible to live free and live in abundance.

      You said, “i find myself in a new place. i tend not to really have any dealings with non relative bm.”

      Me either. I also don’t have many dealings with my BM relatives who are useless. I don’t deal very much with dead weight individuals (of any type or kind).

      About the DBRBM at your job: It’s good that you put him on cheerful, breezy “nignore”! LOL! {I borrowed that little expression from Miss Tracy!}

      You said, “it seems that folks are afraid or simply refuse to mention the obvious date out common sense conclusion. or at least call it right out in no uncertain terms.” (emphasis added)

      Indeed. I’m going to talk about this in the Part 2 follow-up to this post. We have to stop biting our tongues and stopping short from saying the only SERIOUS solution.

      You said, ” it takes a lot of courage to do this. i know when i was all “power to the people” railing on white folks for their mistreatment of bm, it took a long minute to fix my mouth to call it. and BOY! did it hurt initially. it is the final acknowledgment of the death. honestly, i felt angry with those that were freely proclaiming to the world that all was lost.”

      I agree. I felt the same way in the past. I now realize that I was still looking at the situation through the distorting lens of the AA cultural Oppositional Defiant Disorder that we have going in terms of Whites. In order for AA women and girls to survive and thrive, we MUST drop this Oppositional Defiant Disorder attitude toward WM. AA women must learn how to comfortably socialize in the global village.

      You said, “you know, i was watching one of the latest videos of min farrakhan as he addressed the fact that the african american community is lying, gasping its last breaths, on its deathbed. he looked rather anguished as he acknowledged it.”

      Min. Farrakhan knows that “Saigon has fallen,” and that it’s GAME OVER for the AA collective.

      You said, ” i have seen NO “good bm” come as sternly with other bm as they have demonstrated for decades, having no problem doing with others.”

      There are a handful of BM like Victor, Black SeaGoat, and others who will be stern and firm in confronting and chastising destructive BM. But these real men only constitue approximately 2% of the AA male population. There are just too few of them for them to be able to affect the tidal wave of AA male mutants. Like “Saigon,” the microscopic numbers of protective and provider BM have been overrun.

      You said, “on a sidenote- i am not an organic vegan food type of girl. i like filet mignon a little too much to even go there. in moderation of course. lol. the brazilian bbq with all the nonstep proteins coming to the table IS the business for me! i apologize for not providing links when i commented on that post or coming off like i was saying vegan or die. going forward, i will be more mindful to do so. though you should know doing so is not one of my strong points. i come from a look it up type of upbringing and old habits die hard. lol.”

      No problem, I do understand. LOL!

      Expect Success!

    • Zoopath says:

      “i would take my chances with the foi!” LOL! I know the feeling. There are some programs/people (Tom Joyner for example) that I don’t even allow myself to listen to because I know that it’s not good for me to want to be reaching through electronic devices to strangle folks.

    • MsMellody says:

      To: Focused Purpose

      I am at the verge of tears ( tears of joy) when I was reading your comment!!

      I mean I was actually crying when I got to the end of your comment because I was totally enthralled with the level of emotions and the level of changes that your words were portraying! And the fact that you are the mother of a young black male son..made me feel so good.

      Good in the sense that now that YOUR perspective about these issues have changed/evolved/etc you as a mother of a young black male can provide a new perspective for your son.

      And to top it all off, your “butterfly” response to that idiot black male fellow employee. And yes your observation of him as being the “girl that got dressed all up and wanting to be noticed by YOU..didnt work and now this idiot is just totally unhinged and wanting to step to you with all kinds of questions etc” was the ultimate comment.

      Let me just add this Focusedpurpose I am in total agreement with you, and every single day I feel blessed because of the comments and postings from this and other BWE blogs. Thank you Khadija for providing a place – as I always say – for women of like minds to exchange ideas/comments and a place for thought provoking life enhancing information!

    • ak says:

      Well I use to slightly respect Farrakhan until you said he told BW that BM will be ‘coming home’ and for BW to ‘hold on’ but that he would be caught dead next to Superhead for a photo op?? That takes the cake. Next…..

  24. even this is an example of the “good” bm refusing to call it out. he isn’t even trying scapegoat pookie nem.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX1j-7w4UJY

    i can’t find the one where he fixed his mouth to say bm are coming home. i think it is probably a good thing; listening is negatively impacting my disposition. i have come a long way. i used to be enthralled by his words. i am now just overall irritated by them. uh, could you GET TO THE POINT?! plain talk it please?! WHO is destroying bm, bw and bc? do you DARE call it? ugh! i am going to need negroes to STOP standing up talking around the point. just stop talking period. DO BETTER. stat. grrr.

    though if you can deal, you will see WHY it is crucial the status quo be maintained at all costs. the politician that got in trouble for saying negroes want to sell drugs and do what’s easy over what is right, seems to think like pookie and the “good” guys that bw are gearing/educating up to carry grown men. nope. not hardly. folks see clearly WHO is focused on coming up among black folks.

    Khadija, i was under the impression you closed comments, otherwise i would have posted my side-note on that thread sis.

    [Khadija speaking: With some posts, I close the comments. With other ones I simply wander away from the conversation, and stop responding to new comments past a certain point. {smile}]

    • joyousnerd says:

      focusedpurpose: You said: “i am going to need negroes to STOP standing up talking around the point. just stop talking period. DO BETTER. stat. grrr.”

      I say: Honey, you are going to be waiting a long time for that! LOL!

      I kid, I kid. We know that BM won’t be doing better anytime soon. And the few decent BM will not step in to stem the tide, even if they could.

      Matter of fact, as more BW stop propping DBRBM up, they are going to fall off, HARD. Severe poverty, even fewer legit opportunities in academia and the workplace… if enough of us catch a clue things are going to get realer than real for them.

      I fear they will escalate their DBR behavior in response, like Evia has predicted. An abuser steps up the abuse when the victim tries to leave, and promises to be less abusive if only she will forgive and return to him. Then there is a honeymoon period and the abuse ramps up higher.

      I fear many BW will fall for this hook, line and sinker. Some of the BW who are trying to escape the matrix still hold a flickering flame of hope deep inside them, that BM will get it together and spontaneously choose to become decent men who protect and provide, if they are pushed/scared/threatened into losing BW to WM.

      So all a savvy DBR has to do is fake the funk for a while and many of these women will gratefully fall into the trap.I have often seen in online discussions instances were BW readers say that they are mating out in order to push BM into acting right. These women don’t understand! DBRBM are too damaged to EVER “get it”, too broken to “do right”. You cannot cajole, plead, persuade, threaten or force a sow’s ear into being a silk purse.

      More BW are seeing the light every day… especially as they see how sojourners are living. I see BW watching my husband with our kids all the time. Sometimes there is burning hate in their eyes; jealousy because I live well. But more and more I am seeing a “you go girl!” sentiment, a silent thumbs up and smile from BW.

      Best of all is seeing the gears grinding in teen black girls… the light bulbs going off in their heads that they, too, can have a HUSBAND, not a babydaddy they share with 4-5 women. They, too, can have a tranquil and happy life. The message is snowballing because BW and BG can see for themselves that marrying out is the BEST strategy.

  25. FoxyCleopatra says:

    @focusedpurpose,

    LOL at ur reaction to the kneegrow in ur office. One thing I have noticed even on this side of the pond is that the bm have the exact same mentality. Despite what a lot of them say, they actually want bw to get upset and feel rejected by bm dating out. It feeds their egos and sense of purpose. I have become a Jedi Master in the ‘art of nignoring’..lol! The funny thing is in reality, when I look at how I actually feel, I am indifferent to what they do or do not do and I hope that the masses of bw become that way too. When I came to the realisation that I really didnt care, I actually felt a bit weird because I thought that maybe there was some callousness in my not giving a rip, however, the actual reason was that I didnt see it as ‘my loss’ seeing as for the most part, the massess of bm were never part of my dating pool in the first place (i’ve got some very high standards when it comes to men!)

    ————————————————————-

    To the second part of my comment, there are some observations I have made concerning a lot of ‘formerly black nationalist’ bw and I think the earlier this issue is addressed, the better. Some of these women still maintain a lot of the black love fantasies and so in advising AA women to date out, tell them to date other non-AA bm. I believe that this is very very risky for several reasons which I will outline in my next comment.

  26. CNS says:

    Thanks to all who gave comments on the old, broke down BM looking for younger women. When I was in my mid-30’s and even until now, I have encountered many(dirty)old men that were interested in me. I could never make that connection as to why a man 20 years older than men would actually an interest in me. We had nothing in common mentality, emotionally, or spiritually. I just thought that they were only dirty old men. Now I get that they are not only interested in sex but they need a nurse to take care of them as well. Just plain gross.I always joke with my friends and say that if you find me with an old man it would be because I went the Anna Nicole route. The only way I can see myself with an old broke down man is that he would have to be a multi-millionaire, but it’s still gross.lol

  27. FoxyCleopatra says:

    ……..comment continued. The reasons are as follows:

    1. For any black woman living in the US, your best options for dating out are wm. That is just a fact. Whether it has to do with numbers, availability, access etc.

    2. For non-AA bm, I will address Carribean-origin bm and African bm separately. For Carribean bm, it is an absolute and bold faced LIE that their mating habits are any different from that of AA males. For those of them residing in the Carribean, the ‘white is right’ mentality is, dare I say even more blatantly exhibited. The MAIN reason why the IR rate among them may seem lower is because as a porportion, black pple there are more than in the US and non-blacks are less, so therefore, there is less of an opportunity. Also, a lot of the black men one sees in America that may just be assumed to be AA are actually of Carribean origin. So a lot of these dbrbm are themselves non-AA.

    3. Looking at Black Caribbean British males, their abandonment of ‘their’ women is even more dire! Forget about their dating habits, the good proportion of them do not even want bw anywhere in their surroundings. The same nonsense (black on black crime, high prison population, low educational achievement etc) exists among black males here in the UK. The prevalence of rape against women (of various races) residing in predominantly black areas is shocking and even more disgusting is the black ‘communities’ reaction towards it. These gang rapes are most generally committed by black and mixed race males (of both Caribbean and African origin).

    4. As for African men, where do I even start. I think this is the most dangerous situation because of the very high number of ‘boardroom thugs’/’rar-rays in a suit’ that a lot of AA women will fall for it. Let me break it down. A lot of AA women see several successful African men choosing to marry bw and begin to cheer them. However, one needs to understand the way a lot of these men think. I cannot count the number of times that I have heard an African man say that if he didnt marry a woman from his country or another African woman, he may as well just marry a non-black woman. Most of the African men I know who are married to women who are not from their home country or another african country are married to white women from the eastern bloc (of european countries) or to Asian women from developing countries. For some reason, a lot of these African men have gotten this notion that they have this stream of AA women waiting for them and are more than willing to take advantage of it, and unfortunately, i am seeing several AA women falling for it! Dont get me wrong, there are several good African men but most of those you see in the west (and so will meet) do not take long to develop these same pathetic mentalities themselves. The only thing I have noticed is that they are not as vocal as say AA and Caribbean men but once you actually begin to engage in conversation with a lot (and to be honest most) of them, you will be utterly disgusted at the kinds of things you hear. I think the issue is that just because these males may take care of their kids and get married on a much more frequent scale than AA males, some women would refer to them as being ‘good/desirable/catches’. If these men were en masse, so responsible, lets keep it real, the African continent would not be in the state it presently is in right now. As much as I didnt like it the first time I heard it, I have to be honest and agree with evia, by and large, bm the world over are a conquered men.

    • ak says:

      I agree with everything you’ve said here. Everything.

    • Valerie M says:

      100% cosign to you here, especially on the Caribbean bit. I was never a “nothing but a BM” type, but I used to be a lot more attracted to BM in general. That is until I got older and was able to make sense of the way most of my (Caribbean) BM uncles and other random (AA and non-AA) BM were treating their wives and my cousins. A complete mess. Fortunately, and oddly enough, my father is one of the few decent ones in the bunch. I do know good BM who exist (I can attest to it as I have known them years and they have always treated ALL women with respect for the most part). But Khadija, you’re right. They are in the minority. And degrees and jobs can’t fix dysfunction. Period.

      I wouldn’t touch most of them with a 10 foot pole, even if for the simple fact that they don’t know how to approach women respectfully or talk respectfully to a woman they don’t know very long. I mean, even most abusive men have the common sense to appear respectful and charming on a bare minimum level for the first 2-3 months until he gets under the woman’s skin. THEN he gradually starts showing his entire behind! Some of these BM can’t even muster up the energy to fake THAT! Not that anyone should fake it in the first place, but you get my point!

      I can’t really speak for African men since there aren’t many down where I live, but I’m not falling for that okey-doke either! I too have always wondered if Africans are so great, why is the entire continent perpetually shot straight to hell???

    • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

      Wow FoxyCleopatra,

      Thats an eye, mouthful…

      I have had a couple of interactions with Caribbean and African men, but I didn’t know it was that deep.

  28. Felicia says:

    I’ll be honest, this “coming home” talk (nonsense) drives me up a wall. Why would any sane BW want a damaged negro male to “come home” to begin with? For this mass abandonment/exodus of BM to have taken place to begin with, means the majority of BM were apparently flawed/damaged all along. And just covering it up (somewhat) until now.

    The damage was kept somewhat in check back in the day do to forcible segregation and outright violence from the white power structure. But just because things seemed all right, doesn’t mean everything was.

    Like Evia has said in previous essay’s, right after the civil-rights movement was a prime opportunity for African-Americans to develop a reasonably uplifting culture of some sort and tackle the issues of colorism and sexism. That obviously didn’t happen and we see the negative repercussions of that lack of planning for a positive future for African American people.

    It was BM’s responsibility to build a self-sufficient, self-respecting, dignified, uplifting, and thriving community for black people including black women and black children. They obviously dropped the ball because they didn’t give a damn about black women and black children and were only thinking with their little head between their legs instead of the big one between their ears.

    IMO the masses of BM (not all just the majority) didn’t THINK at all apparently. Otherwise, the “bc” wouldn’t be in the shambles it’s currently in.

    And some FOOL want’s these “brothas” to come home?! I say at this point it’s best they stay away and spread their damaged to NON BW for a change.

    IMO BW deserve BETTER than what the majority (not all just the majority) of modern BM have delivered.

    And it’s easy to find better in the GLOBAL community of men OUTSIDE of the growingly toxic AA construct.

    And let me reiterate, it’s not a racial issue here. It’s all about personalities, traits, and behaviors.

    The African-American construct is currently churning out a preponderance of clueless males who are non-family oriented, unwholesome, jealous, juvenile, angry, shiftless, and non marriageable,

    And NO marriage minded BW has to put up with that cr*p when then are other finer and healthier fish in the sea.

  29. Felicia says:

    FWIW, when I stated…

    “right after the civil-rights movement was a prime opportunity for African-Americans to develop a reasonably uplifting culture of some sort”

    I was really thinking that AA culture eventually regressed instead of progressed. The building blocks for a bright future were there. But nothing was taken to the next level. Everything just seemed to stall, than start regressing backwards. But not backwards to the way things were previously back in the day. Like in our Grandparents generation when there was still common sense and decency and marriage was the rule instead of exception. I’m talking about regressing back on an evolutionary scale culturally speaking.

    I guess that’s what ultimately happens when sexism, raciomisogyny, and self-hatred on the part of the majority of a mentally conquered (voluntarily) population – in this case most BM – is given a pass/excused away.

    I’m certainly looking forward to part two Khadija. You’re on FIRE lately.

  30. Oshun/Aphrodite says:

    @ Ink – You are not the only one that happens to. You are going to have to avoid those places and remove yourself from that community. If there is any way you can do this you must. If you are in a nonblack space and you see BM avoid them and ignore them. If they harass you call the police.

    @ Zoopath – I know right. I am thinking oh wow I have found something good bc this a “friend” introducing us. I was never so wrong.

  31. […] Khadija Nassif on November 30th, 2010 This is a follow-up to For All Practical Purposes, Most Self-Proclaimed Good Black Men™ = Pookie And Ray-Ray. We’ve been discussing the post, For My Critics: If You Have A Better Solution Bring It from […]

  32. Evia says:

    @ Foxy Cleopatra re:

    As much as I didnt like it the first time I heard it, I have to be honest and agree with evia, by and large, bm the world over are a conquered men.

    Yes, the vast bulk of them are defeated, conquered, and the overwhelming majority of them have surrendered on their knees with their hands up.
    My Nigerian ex-husband recognized the dire state of things for Nigeria and often said that there would have to be a lot of people killed in his country before things could be turned around. Though he is a nice man, he is also a realist and is the type of African man who would have been willing to do what was expedient if he’d ever gotten into leadership there. Sometimes it’s necessary to behead some of your own folks in order for the others to have a chance. It’s brutal, but that’s reality.

    This is the exact situation that a lot of African American women are in now. They want a chance at a fulfilling life, but the DBRs and those “good” folks in their families, the black church and others in the bc are not going to allow that if there’s anything they can do to stop bw from leaving them. So one of the things that some AA men and their bw lapdogs are now doing is using the media, internet, etc. to make bw look as indecent and un-marriageable as possible to wm because they know that wm are the vast bulk of the men that most of us will mate and marry. In other words, since they can’t keep AA women from leaving, they’re trying to reduce the # of wm who may be interested in bw as mates. You may jump but you won’t have anywhere to land.

    Most AA women just don’t GET IT and cannot bring themselves to face the savage situation they’re in. They refuse to face it, but AA women are now in an active state of war and many of them are falling over dead without any idea of the war or of what has killed them. A war doesn’t need to be declared on TV before I would know that I’m under siege. All I’d have to do is look around me and see that so many bw are falling down dead. I don’t know about y’all, but that’s exactly what I see when I look around.

    Re your comments about African men as mates and really ANY type of man as a mate, a successful relationship begins and is maintained by first vetting well and then constantly shaping the relationship. This starts the first minute of the first date. A lot of AA women have been deprived of ever learning or using vetting or relationship-shaping skills with AA men. For ex., my ex was a nice man and very generous to me BUT he would have taken advantage of me IF I’d let him. I believe that ANY person has a tendency to take advantage if there are no boundaries or flimsy boundaries. I have firm boundaries in place with men ALWAYS and I don’t hesitate to let a man know that. If he doesn’t like it, then he can hit the door. So many women of all groups have wishy-washy boundaries or no boundaries with men, and this is exactly what causes most of their problem with many men.

    I’m saying this as some bw move on to greener pastures because you have to have boundaries and insist on respect–not loudly, but firmly–no matter how much he says he loves you and no matter how much you love him.

  33. Everybody,

    I’m closing the comments to this post. Let’s move on to Part 2, which is now up and published.

    Expect Success!