Don’t Stop Short, Tell The WHOLE Truth—It’ll Set You Free

This is a follow-up to For All Practical Purposes, Most Self-Proclaimed Good Black Men™ = Pookie And Ray-Ray. We’ve been discussing the post, For My Critics: If You Have A Better Solution Bring It from Von’s Black Consciousness; the conversation over there about the post, and the implications of both. At first, I was going to write a separate essay, but I think that you—the readers—have explained various angles the best.

GOOD BLACK MEN™ HAVE A SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP WITH POOKIE AND RAY-RAY

A reader named Muse said,

Even though I’m not around thugs or criminals in my circle or environment, it doesn’t mean I don’t encounter DBRs. I think the career-orientated/ professional DBRs are more dangerous because their dysfunctional thinking and behavior isn’t that obvious to the naked eye. As a woman you have to be on guard and pay close attention to their behavior to spot the non-thug DBR Negro. These individuals cover up their degenerate behavior with their degrees and careers. They have a complex and entitlement issues as Von mentioned in her post, which translates to the poor treatment of Black women. These guys are also the same types to defend the obvious DBR and put blame solely on women for the issues impacting the “community.”

These awful individuals take advantage of the numbers working against black women and use that to exploit the good women they do encounter. Black women are jumping through hoops and compromising their integrity just to be with these men without any reciprocity. In fact these gainfully employed pseudo-nice guys are kicking back and enjoying their harem of Black women catering to their every need. Sadly so many black women are so desperate for the IBM (Ideal Black Man) on paper, that they give these pseudo-nice guys a pass because of their education and careers even if they are being treated like garbage. I’ve told my male friends and associates countless times that if they use women as sperm dumpsters they are no better than the Pookie and Ray-Rays.

The black women who manage exchange nuptials with these pseudo-nice guys aren’t in a better position. Now they have to maintain their super woman status. Not only do these women have to have a high power career and bring home the bacon, they also have to play the role of the housewife, sex goddess, and super wife. These women experience the double burden that many feminists write about. They have to maintain careers and the household without much support. I’ve actually spoken to friends who married these types of men and looking back most of them regret getting married to these losers.

On paper and to the outside world they look like the power couple having the Barrack and Michelle fantasy but behind closed doors they are suffering because they are alone in their marriage. In fact some of these women are also dealing with unfaithful husbands. These Negros who grew up with nothing suddenly think that just because they have their degrees and fancy job titles they can do whatever they want, even if it means disrespecting their wives. Many of them have women on the side and its expected behavior as long as he comes home to the wife.

As a disclaimer not all professional black men act like this however I can’t begin to tell you how many of these pseudo-nice guys have hit on me during happy hour or tried to make me their mistress at professional conferences. Luckily I have too much self-respect and ego to be someone’s side chick. This brings me to the point that women have to look beyond job titles and credentials when evaluating a mate. It takes patience and discipline but at the end you will thank yourself for having high standards for your life.

A reader named Oshun/Aphrodite said,

I think Pookie and Nice Guy™ take up for one another. They work hand in hand in destroying BW. They look out for one another and fuel each other. They have a code/contract. As long as Nice Guy™ doesn’t actually throw salt in Pookie’s game (like stopping him or protecting women from him) Nice Guy™ is allowed to use him in order to run his own brand of game on women. And as much as Nice Guy claims to hate Pookie – they never rat them out. They always jump on the women who were naive or vulnerable after the fact. After the damage has been done.

A reader named Joyous Nerd said,

Wow, powerful commentary here, Von really knocked it out of the park. Of course Good Black Men are not going to step in and stop Pookie and Jaquarvius…. those low class BM are creating the wonderful life that these middle class men are savoring!

Without low rent thugs creating hellish conditions for black women and black children, BW would never be so desperate and willing to tolerate abuse, cheating and a whole host of other foolishness. The shortage is what gives Good Black Man the ability to have a harem till he crumbles of old age. If those bums weren’t so incomparably degenerate, the Good Black Men would still miss the mark by miles compared to functional men of other races.

I said,

My thing is that, until I read Von’s post, I hadn’t really taken note of how heavily invested most self-proclaimed Good Black Men™ are in scapegoating underclass Pookie and Ray-Ray—while doing NOTHING to check Pookie’s and Ray-Ray’s destructive behavior. Pookie and Ray-Ray aren’t the only (or even the majority of) AA males who are actively engaging in destructive, anti-family formation, anti-life behaviors. Most of these self-proclaimed Good Black Men™ are the SAME as Pookie and Ray-Ray in terms of being irresponsible womanizers.

Also just the SAME as Pookie and Ray-Ray, most self-proclaimed Good Black Men™ are always care-RECIPIENTS from BW and never care-PROVIDERS to Black women. Often, including never providing active, material care to their own Black mothers and other Black female relatives who have supported their aspirations over the years.

I also hadn’t made the connection between this scapegoating and the fact that most self-proclaimed Good Black Men™ measure themselves and their manhood (such as it is) by what Pookie and Ray-Ray are doing or not doing; *not* by what mostly functional, nonblack men are doing. The mind boggles.

. . . The distinction I make isn’t about a man being racially “Black.” It’s about how dysfunctional the masses of (mostly fatherless) modern African-American males are at this point. I would tell a marriage-minded BW to bypass the vast majority of AA males.

. . . There are a handful of BM like Victor, Black SeaGoat, and others who will be stern and firm in confronting and chastising destructive BM. But these real men only constitute approximately 2% of the AA male population. There are just too few of them for them to be able to affect the tidal wave of AA male mutants. Like “Saigon,” the microscopic numbers of protective and provider BM have been overrun.

THE BLACK MEN IN THEIR LATE 40s AND EARLY 50s WHO START DATING AND THEN MARRY YOUNGER BLACK CHURCH WOMEN AREN’T REDEEMED—THEY’RE LOOKING FOR A NURSE FOR THEIR OLD AGE

A reader named AK said,

I’ll never forget Khadija when you talked about your BM lawyer acquaintance who thought he was goin’ round town straight up ballin’ with a little black book as thick as a Bible until he had a stroke and then NOBODY had time for him anymore, and he had OOW kids from his escapades, you said, who I’m sure he expects them to show up now or soon even though he never wanted to show up for them. Just because he’s a lawyer black people would swear up and down that he was a Good Black Man (TM), especially the black women.

That’s a shame about this acquaintance left high and dry after such a debilitation but if he’d have lived life a bit differently and with more accountability, he’d have support in his situation and not have to go through it all alone. Oh well! I hope he has plenty of savings left over for himself that he hasn’t squandered on too many trinkets, or on bad investments, or anything.

I said,

Many of the unmarried, professional AA male bedhoppers’ basic game plan is that they’ll marry a much-younger BW church lady when they feel themselves getting close to old age for real. They figure that when they hit their early 50s, then they’ll marry a 30-something or younger AA church lady. That way, they’ll have a younger wife ready and prepped to take care of them once they become truly elderly and sickly.

Where my BM attorney acquaintance messed up is that he had the stroke before he had identified or started dating a much younger BW church girl to take care of him when he got old and sickly. Of course, he didn’t expect anything like that to happen. He figured he had more time to sleep around (he was around his mid- to late 40s when he had the stroke). It turned out that he had waited too long to start looking for a church girl to take care of him in his future old age and poor health. If he had timed it better, then he probably would have gotten over the hump.

And since he had the stroke while he has still in obvious player mode, none of his jumpoffs wanted to be bothered with taking care of his rear end. None of the women he was sleeping with were actual girlfriends. So, they didn’t feel any obligation to help him.

A reader named Lisa99 said,

The BW church girl racket is another thing on my long list of complaints about the traditional AA Christian church.

So I know a BW, 35, never married, who is getting married next June. She talks about how she was so glad she waited on “God’s timing” and didn’t force things on her own, etc. A pastor introduced her to her future husband and within three months they were engaged. There wasn’t any formal proposal (which is not necessarily a big deal, but keep reading), but he just brought up the fact that he wanted to marry her and they just kinda fell into an engagement.

Now… I later learn that this man is 49, previously married, been divorced for about 6-7 years. Don’t know about kids. I know nothing about this man and he could be wonderful. But it’s rather fishy to me how quickly he made a move on a younger (but never-married and ready) BW church girl… as if he was on that plan of making sure he found a “good churchgoing woman” right at the time he realized he was too old to keep bedhopping.

And now, the woman is so excited talking about what God delivered her and folks at the church are using this story as an example of God answering prayers. Now I don’t necessarily believe that God is in the matchmaking business, but if so, I find it hard to believe that this 35-year-old, never-married woman’s pre-ordained destiny is a divorced man darn near 50 years old…

I just smiled when I heard the story and wished the woman well.

In reply, I said,

What’s fishy to me is how so many AA women—especially AA church women—choose to be blind and dumb about this obvious behavior pattern. How do they not notice that these breaking-down/broke down BM players only come to them when they sense they’re coming to the point when they’ll need somebody to physically take care of them? What happened to these church girls’ pet phrase about being “unequally yoked”?

You said, ” I find it hard to believe that this 35-year-old, never-married woman’s pre-ordained destiny is a divorced man darn near 50 years old… “

Me too. I’m just disgusted at how the AA church (and mosque) serve up BW for exploitation. And then call this “God’s will.” Somehow, God doesn’t will that type of bs for any other ethnic group or race of women in the US!

THE OBVIOUS, COMMON-SENSE SOLUTION IS FOR MORE AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN TO MARRY OUT—SPECIFICALLY TO WHITE MEN. WE NEED TO STOP MINCING WORDS ABOUT THIS.

A reader named Monique said,

I totally cosign onto this post and several of the comments written thus far. I believe that the “Good Black Man” moniker is an oxymoron; truly decent, good black men of character simply do not exist. There may be a few who do right by their own woman or child, but the vast majority do not check, condemn or reign in the outrageous behavior of the Ray Rays and Pookies within the defunct BC. Therefore, those BM who claim to be “good” still are not acting in a protective role for the masses of BW and Black children, they are only taking care (albeit minimally) their own.

Additionally, your comment about BM measuring themselves against the lowest common denominator (i.e., the pookies and thugs) instead of functioning, healthy men in the global village has always baffled me. Indeed it’s baffling to me that most AA choose to emulate utter foolishness and pass it off as “culture.” It appears to me that BM simply do not want to do better, they simply do not want to put in the work to make themselves competitive in this world. It is apparent from their actions that being nothing more than entertainers (coons are more apropos), athletes, “rappers” and mandingo stud muffins is fine by them.

If BW want a more abundant life, we will HAVE to date and marry quality men from the global village and leave Ray Ray and Pookie to their own demise.

That’s the bottom line. The current cultural protocol is for African-American women to stop short of saying this last part out loud. We can’t afford to keep doing this. We can’t afford to keep coming up with elaborate and unlikely alternative answers all in the name of avoiding the obvious solution of interracial marriage for Black women.

Concerns were raised about the pattern that many online Black conversations take. Specifically the pattern of stopping short, and advocating anything except the common-sense, natural solution of Black women doing what large numbers of Asian women have done to improve their circumstances: marry from among the dominant population—marry White men.

Faith, blog host of Acts of Faith in Love & Life said,

Good points which is why the post, the source material and the insane response in the comment section took the central point into a confused mess. I saw a few distinct caveats though.

1) The idea of the women raising kids alone is a problem.
2) Are all of these abandoned women supposed to remain so?
3) The inevitable conclusion that women must stop limiting themselves by race is not seriously encouraged when we know that is going to be best option and AA women need to date/marry out.
4) There’s still an undercurrent of pain and disappointment expressed and I think hoping for the BM to ‘come to his senses’ so they can all come together.
That “black love” trap! It was why some of the male detractors immediately tried to block the idea of interracial dating for BW.

While I think Von’s conversation was beneficial and may appeal to a certain audience some of the key elements that would address the “conclusion” aspect as BW finally move on to the next phase of their lives (if they want the highest quality) cannot be ignored.

A reader from the UK named Foxy Cleopatra said,

I think Von is spot on with her observations, however, knowing the way several bw choose to think, some may interpret it the wrong way. What I benefit from the example used with the Umoja women is that they saw the situation and got away from all the nonsense and made their lives better on their own terms, irrespective of what ‘their’ men thought of it. There is however, the danger that some silly bw (who constantly lurk on these empowerment sites) may then literally take this to mean that since these so-called ‘good black men’ aren’t really ever going to show up and sweep them off their feet, they should then forget about actually having a quality man in their lives and instead just build communities with themselves and remain single for the rest of their lives.

Yes bw should find like minded pple and form communities but I find it hard to believe that for the masses of black women, marriage is not something that they desire (irrespective of whether or not they already have kids oow or not). In the grand scale of things, bw should forget about this nonsensical IBM fantasy and hedge their bets with finding worthy men in the global village.

In reply to Faith’s comment, I said,

Faith,

I also noticed the “caveats” you mentioned. That’s why I’ve decided to do a Part 2 to this post. Any plan that revolves around AA women remaining without competent, effective men providers is a bad plan. I see those sorts of ideas as emergency/crisis way stations. Way stations to bridge the gap between being immersed in the radioactive AA scene and transitioning to join the outer, global village.

Focused Purpose, blog host of the Focused Purpose blog said,

. . . it seems that folks are afraid or simply refuse to mention the obvious date out common sense conclusion. or at least call it right out in no uncertain terms. it takes a lot of courage to do this. i know when i was all “power to the people” railing on white folks for their mistreatment of bm, it took a long minute to fix my mouth to call it. and BOY! did it hurt initially. it is the final acknowledgment of the death. honestly, i felt angry with those that were freely proclaiming to the world that all was lost. . .

In reply, I said,

I agree. I felt the same way in the past. I now realize that I was still looking at the situation through the distorting lens of the AA cultural Oppositional Defiant Disorder that we have going in terms of Whites. In order for AA women and girls to survive and thrive, we MUST drop this Oppositional Defiant Disorder attitude toward WM. AA women must learn how to comfortably socialize in the global village.

IF AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN WANT TO HAVE A REASONABLE OPPORTUNITY FOR WHOLESOME MARRIAGE, WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO DROP OUR KNEE-JERK GRUDGE AGAINST WHITE MEN

When the sorts of conversations like the one from Von’s blog occur, the most many participants will concede is that perhaps . . . just maybe . . . African-American women should kinda, sorta think about dating and marrying non-African-American Black men, and other men of color. That’s a false solution for a number of reasons. First of all, many men of color are just as colorist and downright racist as African-American men. I made the following reply comment at another blog about the patterns I’ve observed,

I would say that it’s not either/or, it’s both/and.

On the one hand, everything else being roughly equal (the woman’s comportment, looks, etc.) BW are “held to a different standard than white and Asian women and men do not put as much energy into pursuing us.” That’s just reality at this point. BW can either deal with it and keep moving forward; or give up.

On the other hand, NO other ethnic group of women other than African-American women are running around publicly and loudly declaring that they would never date outside their race. Other women also haven’t bought into the Sista Soldiering, lack of femininity, “mean mug” facial expressions, etc. on a massive scale like AA women.

Most of the BW bloggers that I’m aware of who support BWIR have talked about ALL of these variables. For example, Evia has talked about the overall social reality that quality WM are in a position to be able to pick from a wide range of women. So WM have no incentive to chase after unapproachable-acting BW. She’s also emphasized that there are numerically more WM in the US than other types of men. Halima has, on more than one occasion, emphasized the current generation of adult BW will have to face the extra hurdles of being trailblazers in terms of IR marriage.

For my part, I’ve repeatedly told AA women to stop assuming that there’s automatically some Kumbaya thing in operation with other people of color. In the employment context, I’ve repeatedly said that AAs are more likely to be hired by White “gatekeepers” than other POC gatekeepers.

I believe the same overall pattern applies to AA women and IR marriage context. The marriage odds are better for AA women and WM than with other men of color. Among the various categories of WM, the marriage odds are better for AA women with European-born WM as opposed to American-born WM. However, even in terms of American WM, I’ve noticed a significant change in the past 20-25 years. More American WM are willing to approach BW for dating than they were 2 decades ago. Before, WM would look at and notice BW, but it was rare for them to approach BW and ask them out for a date.

Other people of color tend to be as racist and colorstruck as AA males. Some of these cultures are racist and colorstruck among themselves. South Asians (East Indians and Pakistanis) are extremely bad with this even among themselves. Skin color is one of the features they prominently mention in the marriage ads they place in their own publications. I’ve seen them do this on a routine basis in ads in immigrant Muslim publications. Since these people do this among themselves, they’re really not into the idea of courting and marrying BW.

In terms of seeking a quality husband among other men of color, a BW has the worst overall odds with Asian men. What I’ve seen of East Asians up close (I’m speaking of mostly Koreans, but also some Chinese and Japanese) is that they are xenophobic among themselves. Folks’ parents from these 3 nationalities will react badly when their child marries an Asian person from one of the other 2 groups. Even though Asians from these 3 groups look very similar to each other in terms of features and complexions. [Unlike Thais, Filipinos and others who are often much darker.] So again, if these people are acting like this among themselves, then no—they’re not really looking to marry BW.

I’m speaking in generalities. There are always individual outliers among any group of people. To sum up, the odds a darker-skinned, West African-featured, IR-dating BW finding a quality husband are much better with WM than with men of color.

Unless an individual BW really has a thing for Asian men, I would not recommend that marriage-minded BW invest much time or energy into trying to date Asian men. The odds of that panning out into marriage are low.

Foxy Cleopatra had this to say from the UK (if I remember correctly, she’s African—she can correct me if I’m wrong :-)),

To the second part of my comment, there are some observations I have made concerning a lot of ‘formerly black nationalist’ bw and I think the earlier this issue is addressed, the better. Some of these women still maintain a lot of the black love fantasies and so in advising AA women to date out, tell them to date other non-AA bm. I believe that this is very very risky for several reasons which I will outline in my next comment.

. . . The reasons are as follows:

1. For any black woman living in the US, your best options for dating out are wm. That is just a fact. Whether it has to do with numbers, availability, access etc.

2. For non-AA bm, I will address Caribbean-origin bm and African bm separately. For Caribbean bm, it is an absolute and bold faced LIE that their mating habits are any different from that of AA males. For those of them residing in the Caribbean, the ‘white is right’ mentality is, dare I say even more blatantly exhibited. The MAIN reason why the IR rate among them may seem lower is because as a proportion, black pple there are more than in the US and non-blacks are less, so therefore, there is less of an opportunity. Also, a lot of the black men one sees in America that may just be assumed to be AA are actually of Caribbean origin. So a lot of these dbrbm are themselves non-AA.

3. Looking at Black Caribbean British males, their abandonment of ‘their’ women is even more dire! Forget about their dating habits, the good proportion of them do not even want bw anywhere in their surroundings. The same nonsense (black on black crime, high prison population, low educational achievement etc) exists among black males here in the UK. The prevalence of rape against women (of various races) residing in predominantly black areas is shocking and even more disgusting is the black ‘communities’ reaction towards it. These gang rapes are most generally committed by black and mixed race males (of both Caribbean and African origin).

4. As for African men, where do I even start. I think this is the most dangerous situation because of the very high number of ‘boardroom thugs’/’ray-rays in a suit’ that a lot of AA women will fall for it. Let me break it down. A lot of AA women see several successful African men choosing to marry bw and begin to cheer them. However, one needs to understand the way a lot of these men think. I cannot count the number of times that I have heard an African man say that if he didn’t marry a woman from his country or another African woman, he may as well just marry a non-black woman.

Most of the African men I know who are married to women who are not from their home country or another African country are married to white women from the eastern bloc (of European countries) or to Asian women from developing countries. For some reason, a lot of these African men have gotten this notion that they have this stream of AA women waiting for them and are more than willing to take advantage of it, and unfortunately, i am seeing several AA women falling for it!

Don’t get me wrong, there are several good African men but most of those you see in the west (and so will meet) do not take long to develop these same pathetic mentalities themselves. The only thing I have noticed is that they are not as vocal as say AA and Caribbean men but once you actually begin to engage in conversation with a lot (and to be honest most) of them, you will be utterly disgusted at the kinds of things you hear.

I think the issue is that just because these males may take care of their kids and get married on a much more frequent scale than AA males, some women would refer to them as being ‘good/desirable/catches’. If these men were en masse, so responsible, lets keep it real, the African continent would not be in the state it presently is in right now. As much as I didn’t like it the first time I heard it, I have to be honest and agree with Evia, by and large, bm the world over are a conquered men.

All of the above is the second reason this “maybe it’s okay for African-American women to expand their dating pool only large enough to also include other men of color” suggestion is a false solution. By eliminating quality White men from their marriage pool, African-American women are eliminating the largest group of men in the US! And eliminating the group of nonblack men who are most likely to marry Black women! How crazy and self-defeating is that?

Bottom line: If we’re serious about wanting a reasonable chance for (a wholesome) marriage—and if we want the same thing for our daughters—then we’ll have to include American White men in our dating and marriage pool. We’re also going to have to drop some of our habitual cultural mindsets. Starting with the knee-jerk oppositional stance many of us take with White men. I said,

. . . Sadly, “Saigon” has fallen. At this point, there’s not much other than suffering and death for BW within the AA collective and its social environments.

So, we need to send our Black girls out into the outer nonblack global village to find their future husbands. This means we need to groom and orient the Black girls and young BW in our lives toward entry into the outer society. AA girls and women know how to work in the outer world. But they haven’t been raised to successfully socialize in the outer world. AA women have been programmed to shun socializing in the outer world. This must change if we want the AA girls who come behind us to have fulfilling lives.
For many of us, this means dropping the cultural Oppositional Defiant Disorder-type of attitude that many AAs automatically take toward the outer, nonblack—especially White—world.

“Saigon” (what used to be a semi-functioning AA community) has been completely overrun by deranged, destructive new-school AA mutants. It’s gone. It won’t be coming back. Those of us who are survivors are going to have to adapt to life in the outer world. This means dropping a lot of the knee-jerk oppositional, and anti-White attitudes that made sense during earlier eras, but now only serve to keep AA women imprisoned in all-AA social and physical hell pits.

African-American women are the only group of people on this planet who worry about “Black love” to their own detriment. Black men have never let “Black love” or any other ideology stop them from dating and marrying White or other nonblack women. Overall, Black men have not reciprocated Black women’s sense of obligation to the Black community. Judging from outward actions and words, most Black men are not concerned about building Black marriages and Black families. Only Black women seem to be preoccupied with “Black love” and “the Black family.”

Were the following (and countless other) Black men worried about “Black love”?

Amiri Baraka, Charles Barkley, Harry Belafonte, Billy Blanks, Julian Bond, Taye Diggs, Father Divine, Frederick Douglass, Julius Erving (Dr. J), Frantz Fanon, Marvin Gaye, Cuba Gooding, Jr., Gregory Hines, Rick James, James Earl Jones, Quincy Jones, Van Jones, Reginald Lewis, Thurgood Marshall, Major Owens, Sidney Poitier, Adam Clayton Powell, Prince, Richard Pryor, Lou Rawls, Lionel Richie, Dennis Rodman, Seal, Russell Simmons, O.J. Simpson, Wesley Snipes, Clarence Thomas, Melvin Van Peebles, Ben Vereen, Herschel Walker, Walter White, John Edgar Wideman, Billy Dee Williams, Montel Williams.

No, these Black men (and many others) didn’t let worries about “Black love” limit their lives. Since Black men don’t let worries about “Black love” stop them from doing whatever is best for themselves, there is no sense in so many African-American women worrying about “Black love” to their detriment. In fact, to do so is foolish. This behavior by African-American women is uniquely foolish.

Other women of color, including African women, have never limited their marriage options out of a misguided and unreciprocated sense of loyalty. African-American women are the only women of color who go around publicly saying that they won’t date outside their race. No other group of women on this planet engages in this behavior. Not African women. Not Latina women. Not Asian women. Not Arab women.

African-American women are alone on this planet in foolishly limiting their marriage options.

Any African-American woman who is serious about optimizing her lifestyle to include marriage is going to have to start focusing on quality instead of race and ethnicity.

*Audience Note* I learned so much from mostly listening during Part 1, that I’m going to do the same here. Please feel free to talk among yourselves.

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75 Responses to “Don’t Stop Short, Tell The WHOLE Truth—It’ll Set You Free”

  1. Pam in FL says:

    Yes, yes, and yes again!

    It’s all true. White men are the ones most likely to recognize the virtues, intelligence and beauty of black women, and, the ones (IMO) to provide the best long-term matches for black women in terms of marriage.

    All white men want black women, then?

    C’mon, you know better than that. It’s still a small percentage of the white male population that will consider dating a black woman.

    BUT, there are a LOT of white men in the U.S. Even a small percentage of a very big number is more than enough to go around for the, what, 30% of black women that say they will date a white man? Black women are only 5% of the U.S. population, right? So, that’s 30% of 5%, and that’s if you’re also counting those under 18 years of age. More than enough guys to go around for that small number of black women, and as everyone knows, the number of white men who feel comfortable going after black women is growing a little bit every year.

    I agree with Khadija; I think the best chances for IR dating and marriage are within that population of men. Even though I’m aware there is a lot frustration among black women that do want to date white men concerning the perceived level of interest from the men themselves.

    There are problems on the black woman’s end too; the “cultural Oppositional Defiant Disorder” Khadija mentions is not imaginary and is quite entrenched in the collective psyche of black women. No matter how they try, most black women still see white men as their oppressors or tormenters, and this sentiment is reinforced by the rhetoric they hear from black men and their female cheerleaders. Historical wrongs are recounted, grievances are remembered, warnings are issued about the white devils, the black women are sufficiently chastised, and then our brothers leave to take up their customary waiting spots right outside Becky’s back door, waiting patiently just to have a few words with that flower of white womanhood. Slavery? Well, that was a long time ago. Oh, who cares about that when there’s a chance at that blonde b*tch? Yeah, boy, she so fine.

    Times have changed, ladies. “The MAN” that is keeping you down now is black, not white. I feel like I’m getting a better shot at love and happiness with a white man than with the black man. I’m just being real, here. Things have changed, and we need to change how we look at things, too.

    • Yellow Moon says:

      Pam in FL, you hit the nail right on the head. All that historical white oppression has not slowed down our “brotherz” one little bit in their heated pursuit of any kind of white woman.

      Why are we the ones being played in this con game?

    • mobile68 says:

      Yeah it’s a shame.

      I was convinced by my parents, their friends, black co-workers and my friends (who were much older than I at the time) that those white men that’s trying to holler at you just want you for sex. Yet in the few white women I did see in the neighborhood were there because they were living w/bm. Yet the bm in my hood would only approach me if they thought they could get a quicky. When I would not obilge then I was all kinda of b*tches. Hmmmm.

      When I would go to house parties(those from Chicago know what I’m talking about) on the south side, usually I would end up dancing w/ my girlfriends or by myself. However when I would go to the house parties on the north side I was being asked to dance by wm & latino men constantly. The “brothers” would side-eye or had the gall to say to me ” It’s like that huh?” & I would be like “Yep. I came here to dance.” Oh, and the wm & latino men kept my thrist quenched w/o me having to ask.

      Wm constantly hollered at me on the job. And was open about it back 25 yrs ago. But there were the black crabs hating by spreading rumors about me cuz I wasn’t giving them or any male at the workplace any action. So when I confronted the hateful bm, it was he whites that came to my defense.

      Yet because I had a couple racial incidents & having parents coming from Ala I thought maybe they were right about white ppl. So I was a nothin-but-a-bm victim for the last 25 yrs.

      Now I’m not turning down nothing but my collar when approched by a men of a different flavor that peak my interest. I am reinstating my checklist when I vet and it will only apply to men of other cultures. “Brothers” can’t even look my way any longer. I can barely tolerate my male relatives. Yet I’m the mother of adult bm. I just want him to grow as a human being & not emanulate like those creatures that he have as a father, uncles, cousins & a grandfather we as bw are having issues with.

  2. joyousnerd says:

    The comment in Pt. 1 about street harassment told a familiar story for most of us, I know it was familiar for me.

    It’s hard to know how to react the best way when dealing with a creature who is cursing you out in public. It really lowers our stock; what other group of people can be publicly threatened and disrespected to such a degree? Not even a urine-soaked hobo will be spoken to the cruel and hateful way the average BW will be in her daily comings and goings. This does little to help us craft the public image as classy, beautiful butterflies who are good wife material.

    In my opinion, trying to converse with such a male is out of the question; trying to point out flaws in his logic only makes him seem like he is a normal person (instead of a scumbag). Telling him that he is rude or irrational (something I used to do as well) implies that you care about his thoughts/feelings/statements. It elevates him.

    Ignoring any comments from disrespectful DBRBM can have fatal consequences when so many of them are armed. We’ve seen the articles of BGs killed by these scum. Even if he doesn’t have a weapon, a sound beating may result from ignoring him.

    I don’t know the answer, I’m just wondering what you ladies think the best response is.

    Personally, as I mentioned in a prior comment, I’m finally going to sign up for martial arts training. No, I don’t think I’ll be Lara Croft or anything, but I do want to learn how to deflect and redirect the blows of a larger opponent, how to break out of holds a man tries to put on me, and how to disarm a man with a gun or knife. I’ll be taking my 5 year old daughter with me to these classes.

    • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

      Jouyousnerd,

      “It’s hard to know how to react the best way when dealing with a creature who is cursing you out in public. It really lowers our stock; what other group of people can be publicly threatened and disrespected to such a degree?”

      I am not sure if I agree with that concerning lowering our stock. I think most other normal people/men know that BM are deranged/damaged.

      I mean how normal is it for a man to yell and curse at a woman walking down the street? If I remove myself from this and look outside in – if I saw that occurring to a woman – some man following/threatening a girl, teen, woman yelling and cursing at her (especially if she isn’t responding back or trying to get away)- I would think he is a lunatic raging out of control.

      Destroying the places where they congregate if this is a corner type situation could work. Call the police and say I think there is some kind of suspicious activity going on at such and such. Could you check it out?

      But above all I think that we should start calling the police more often on these creeps. I think not engaging them and telling them if you harass me I will call the police/ if you keep assaulting me I will call the police – and then do it. I am sure that this has to reach a tipping point – where something will eventually be done.

      • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

        I apologize Joyousnerd for misspelling your name. I caught that just this morning.

        • Joyousnerd says:

          No worries about the spelling!

          I agree that everyone can see these creeps are deranged. However, these DBRs aren’t crazy. They don’t treat white women like that, or ANY other race of women. The whole point of the exercise (of public abuse of BW) is to reinforce the idea that BM own and control BW. They know better than to try that foolishness with other women.

          Which brings me to the other part of your comment. They don’t do other women like that because either the woman will call the police on them or someone else will call the police on her behalf.

          Staying as far away from all-black areas as possible is step 1. These DBRs know not to show out to the same degree when others are around. Calling the police is more likely to work to a BWs favor in a non-black area as well. In the ghetto, the cops take forever to come. God only knows what could have taken place before they arrive.

          This is such a serious problem and I feel it doesn’t get enough attention. People look at it as an individual level issue, but it really is a macro level thing. It reminds me of the videos of Taliban religious police beating women with sticks because a breeze blew her niqab off of her chin for a second.

    • Rhonda says:

      …It’s hard to know how to react the best way when dealing with a creature who is cursing you out in public. It really lowers our stock; what other group of people can be publicly threatened and disrespected to such a degree? Not even a urine-soaked hobo will be spoken to the cruel and hateful way the average BW will be in her daily comings and goings. This does little to help us craft the public image as classy, beautiful butterflies who are good wife material.

      Why would someone else’s behaviour lower “our” stock? It should be my own public behaviour — if it should be crude, vulgar — that would lower [the quality of] my stock. As well, it shouldn’t be the behaviour of any black person — whether it be a man or woman, or if that person’s public behaviour is good or bad — to bear any reflection on me as an individual, neither on you. Do you get what I mean? Stop [psychologically] bearing the weight of the Black Collective on your shoulders.

      There is another group of women who are “publicly threatened and disrespected to such a degree” as black women are by black men on the streets. I heard this story on the radio the other day about the harrassment of women by men on the streets of Egypt: “Sarah Wali has divided her life between the US and Egypt. When she moved there permanently, her family back in the US warned her: the harassment of women is unbearable. But Sarah made it her mission to live in Cairo.” Her story, her experiences, were all too familiar to much of the crap I’ve gotten from black men whilst being out in public. Heck, one of the reasons why I left NYC and moved to very white (and Chinese) San Francisco (the black population is not large here) was to get away from the [seemed like] daily street harrassment in NYC.

    • Karen R. says:

      You said “I don’t know the answer…”

      I would like to offer a suggestion that has been stated here before, and that is to move out of all-black, inner-city enclaves where this sort of behavior is tolerated and accepted. When I lived in the inner-city, I would encounter these sort of deranged individuals somewhat regularly as I went in and out of stores, etc. 10 years ago I moved out and don’t encounter this sort of person at all in my daily life.

  3. focusedpurpose says:

    hi Khadija-

    i am on the fly but will come back when i can really spend time. your blog is not on the fly reading! lol.

    http://www.nonijonesinharlem.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/3-karrine-steffans-farrakhan-200a070706.jpg

    i should’ve posted this link last night so folks could crack up. i know i did to get my attitude right after getting all fired up. now don’t you KNOW this wrong on so many levels? wonder if this pic made the final call? as my grandma would say, he looking just like he did it…twice.

    Khadija, i have become mini obsessed with finding the link where he tells bw that he knows we are suffering but bm are coming home. uh huh, there must be a grip of traffic! LOL.

    ok, i am coming again…

  4. Stallion says:

    I’m loving it! I’ve recently taken a good look at myself through the eyes of non black males specifically WM and I’ll tell you I’m not as close as I’d like to be in getting their attention. I’d first have to shift my whole paradigm of thinking and acting. Everything about me pretty much says..yup she’s a black girl. Not the black girl who grew up in the burbs who dress, eat, think like WF but the urban gal. I’ll say that I have improved my persona now that I’m aware (thanks to you Kadijah). It’s a concentrated effort daily to shift from everything I’ve been reered with but damn worth it. I’ll have to search your blog for information for the gals like me. I’ve already shipped myself out to the burbs to get away from toxic areas now comes the grooming etiquette of it all.

    I must also say I’m loving the comments on “nice guys” whew I’ve had my share of Wolves in Sheeps clothing. Being from the hood myself I’ve fell for the fake nice guy plenty of times fooled by the lifestyle and comparing “Brian Jackson” to “Pookie” the lowest common denominator.

    • Rhonda says:

      It is not my intention to be cruel, but unless Stallion is your real name, a good place to start is with your online name. Your comment seems to indicate that you wish to be seen as a lady, not a hard-core ghetto gal, no? (Although, in reference to your comment, I have met very few white American women from the ‘burbs whom I would ever consider to be a lady; the suburbs of the USA, in my opinion, are not the breeding grounds for lady-like behaviour.) It’s kind of difficult for you to be taken as a lady if you choose to identify yourself as an “uncastrated adult male horse.” Again, if that is your last name, well, then c’est la vie; but if it is not, then you might want to choose a name/identity that is feminine, not uber-masculine, like the word “stallion” is considered to be.

  5. pat says:

    I saw For Colored Girls and that movie showed the world the treatment that black women receive from our “brothers”. Also, I watch those wretched women on the “Real Housewives of Atlanta”. The treatment of Sheree by this so called doctor during the last episode was a classic professional black man with an entitlement scene. I was sooooo happy that it was on TV for everyone to see. It makes us look good and it makes them look bad. The world is seeing this and taking notice. Please, please everyone if you can catch the episode from this past Sunday of Real Housewives please watch it. This professional brother played himself with his entitlement attitude and this sister was showing him respect at the time. I love it!!!

    [Khadija speaking: I respectfully disagree.

    (1) The opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference. As long as it doesn’t affect me, then I don’t care what BM are doing or not doing. To be caught up in “showing BM” anything, or in “BM being shown to be _____” is to still be emotionally fixated on BM. Why should anybody waste their time watching some Negro mistreat a BW? How does watching such material move any AA woman forward into abundant life?

    (2) In terms of the For Colored Girls mess and assorted other pain pornography mess, I believe that it does not serve BW’s interests by having our “brand” constantly associated with pain. All that does is serve to “other” BW in the eyes of nonblacks and non-AAs.]

    • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

      Pat I refuse to make Tyler Perry rich. Everyone that saw the original performance said it was a a story of hope and power. I am waiting on the real black girls version of FCGs.

      I saw clips of a show from that series as I don’t watch TV much, but I am shocked that Sheree didn’t peep that negro from jump.

      I mean this man had her walking over broken glass in a parking lot to get to some hole in the wall club for their first date. Alarm bells. This negro has no regard for your safety.

      Broken glass = fights. Run down hole in the wall = unsafe, certain kind of mentality.

  6. LaJane Galt says:

    AAW also need to recognize that the core reason for unfocused ODD is due to WM’s real/perceived offeding actions towards AA men. The offending action is rarely a concrete, personal offense committed against that particular AAW, but a generalized grievance born of (1) AA men taking the offense out on AA women or(2) the belief that but for WMs’ treatment, AA men would/would not do ____.

    AAW are Sista Soldiers fighting a race war that the direct beneficiaries can’t be bothered/don’t want to fight.

    ***
    Jnerd~call the cops. Clearly explain that you are being threatened, harassed and followed. Tell them you are scared (this is key) that he is going to hurt you. Give them a physical description.

    I’m not going to be PC: since you’re a geek (i count myself in that number 🙂 ), I assume you speak other than AAVE. Use that tone/speech pattern with 911.

    If your non-black SO is targeted, it’s a hate crime.

    One of the reasons that bums get away with abusing US, is that most of us act as Sister Soldiers looking out for the AAM victim du jour (ex-cons, homeless, mentally ill, Rodney King) to non-blacks. We can’t afford to buffer white liberal guilt in the face of depraved behavior for which our race is the impetus. Letting this s-t slide tells the world that it’s ok to demean us ‘cuz street harassment is “black culture.”

  7. Vanessa F. says:

    Good Morning Khadija & Ladies,

    First things first – Khadija please trademark “Cultural Oppositional Defiant Disorder” ASAP! I ran smack into this mindset with a woman relative a few months back. Said relative is in her early 50s, never married, no children and still holding out for the black love ideal. She mentioned during a conversation about relationships “I could never date a white man.” Meanwhile, her black male counterparts are starting to pass away due to various illnesses. I just stared at her for what seemed 15 seconds and excused myself from the room. I did this out of respect because what I wanted to say was this:

    “Sweetheart you are in your early 50s, how many more chances do you think you will get at the marriage game? You are being way too picky at this point!” *drops mic, walks off the stage*

    Now I say “too picky” because she works in an industry where she is literally surrounded by highly functioning, powerful white men. She looks at least 15 years younger than her age, is beautiful, extremely intelligent and rocks a size 4! I KNOW she could pull any of those men if she wanted, but she is clinging to this ideal.

    At first I thought perhaps this is a generational mindset, considering she grew up in the time after the civil rights legislation took place. However, my mother, who is her peer, does not have a problem with her daughters dating IR. I have no idea what it will take for my relative to “see the light.”

    Re: Pookie/Ray-Ray and his middle class, multi-degreed alter-ego Greg/Blair/Chad – I run into this personality a lot in my part of the country. I must say I find their (Greg and ’em) “I am better than Pookie/Ray-Ray/Raekwon so you must put up with my garbage” stance highly entertaining. I pay it no attention (which confuses and angers Greg and friends) and keep it moving.

  8. berrygirlfin says:

    THIS my sisters is in fact wonderland, to borrow from my favorite film the Matrix. Well, at least now with taking the red pill we are seeing for ourselves how deep the rabbit hole goes! I suspect that many of us reading BWE & BWIR blogs already knew our final keys to freedom from the droves of un-cherished work mule status is marriage to the best quality (White male) open and available. But now is the time for action,( if you haven’t already broken free from the lies and shackles of a dead and defunct “black community.) YOU choose… you are not even close to being doomed or stuck in suffering the oncoming fate of the masses of black women around you. This is your ball game! The only thing I have to add to the conversation is why stop at the American White Male….If you really want out, to leave all the crap behind… then dump the whole dog-gone thing. Look into your option of becoming an expatriate. Choose a Scandinavian country. I’ll give you five reasons.

    #1. America is and always has been balanced on the underclass status of African American women; all the while using her genius and ingenuity to maintain super power status. It’s easy to see why we should not support those that don’t support us, when it comes to black men; Well, that goes for the U.S.A. as well…If any people have the historical and moral obligation to seek freedom from a country’s oppression, it’s black women. Just exchange yourself to the fake Pilgrim history taught to us in school. It’s karmic.

    If I’ve learned anything from my black nationalist days it’s this; White supremacy is woven into the very fabric that is the USA. While Dr. Neely Fuller gets the side eye from me (esp. with the relationship between him and Dr. Francis Cress Welsing. “What’s the full story wit that?”) (I digress sorry.) His theory is beyond viable. In the nine areas of life activity, economics, education, entertainment, labor, law, politics, religion, sex and war; those living under the label of “white” benefit hugely from just not being black, but functioning/maintaining the pre-constructed caste system already in place. Now of course its completely possible for a savvy black woman to side step all the land mine bombs laid in wait to defeat her,(moving out of majority black neighborhoods and cities etc.) But the American dysfunction is built in both non-black and black men/ women. The only way to completely side step the do-do is to leave the country all together I say. In countries where the black population is quite small (all Scandinavian countries) and in earlier years non-existent, this caste system built on black skin was not needed… therefore not existing now. Not that racism isn’t there, but its not part of the country’s make-up, esp. when it comes to us black gals. I might not be super educated…graduated high school with some college. I might not be the most beautiful…but, I did get my weight really really in check size 4-from a 14/16. I didn’t even come to my marriage table with much, parents while married for thirty years, have absolutely nothing to show for it sadly, but here in Finland, I easily landed one of the cities Alpha men with a family dynasty and history. Within the US caste system I struggled in finding that suitable white male for much of my valuable youth. If I can do as well as I did, with the little I had, what can some of you super-power black gals do?!!

    #2. Ray-Ray, Pookie & em are exactly 4,751 flight miles away. That includes all their drama in person and on the daily news…(packing yet?) LOL!

    #3. Scandinavian countries have the highest standard of living in all the world. This is the land of the Alpha of the Alpha males. There is a culture of sharing resources and there is less of a gap between the “haves and the have nots.” College or vocational training is free to all Scandinavian citizens and legal residents. One is even given a paycheck to attend school. All stay at home mothers are given a financial stipend monthly until the child is three years old, plus an additional 100 euros a month to use on your child’s current expenses or save in an account to turn over to them later. Health care is universal to all residents. This is the place for raising a stable family no doubt. Immigration to a Scandinavian country is supremely difficult…exceptions made for spouses of course! (Hint, hint!)

    #4. You are the standard for the Black American Female. Why not play the exotic female to (YOUR) full advantage for once!! All that my Finnish friends and family know of me and black American females is that we are attractive, loving, social butterflies, fit for love, marriage and protection from some lucky man. Because I’m it. I’m the experience. I make the example. I set the standard. That is a great treasure to me. I will not ever let it slip. I have that responsibility to my daughters and any other black girl coming after me!

    #5. The forecast for the future is not so great for all of America, not just the now dead black community. As the saying goes, “the black community is like the canary in the mines, foretelling the very health of the US. as a whole;” and if that’s true in anyway, I suggest you ladies update you passports.

    Lastly as the infinitly wise Khadija tells us, “expect success.” I really do, because I do a whole heck of alot to insure success happends to me. So no matter where you choose to live, or the proper “Boaz” you find to marry, use the keys given to you.. Most of them can be found here on this blog. Let’s wow the world and save ourselves agaist the odds!

    [Khadija speaking: Berrygirlfin, thank you for your kind words; I truly appreciate it. I believe that only Allah (SWT) is infinitely wise. The rest of us do what we can and hope for the best. :-)]

    • Oshun/Aphrodite says:

      “, but here in Finland, I easily landed one of the cities Alpha men with a family dynasty and history.”

      Deep salute, bow, with a standing ovation, and handstand! That is awesome!

      Thank you so much for sharing your story! I am so inspired!

    • Neecy says:

      Berry,

      I loveeed your post and found it to be very uplifting for me personally.

      i know this may sound bad but i *think* i have given up on Americna men in general. I do think more BW should leave the united states in search of love. There is just less of the bad perceptions. We are not working from square one with these CONSTANT stereotypes that do hinder BW overall here in the US. The US has not been kind to BW overall. i know, i know i am going to catch flack for that. But JUST as you said, i think in America BW are fighting a real uphill battle. Its going ot take decades for that to change. many of us don’t have decades. I think its going to be much easier for BW to marry White men out of the USA.

      We have waaay too many powerful forces working against us in the femininity dept. here in the USA, and many American WM still hold very nasty stereotypes and perceptions about BW. Even the so called ones who are willing to date us.

      i firmly believe more AA women need to find Non Black husbands across the pond.

      it makes sense. Most BW apart of the BWE movement are BW who have some kinds of resources – whether that be education etc. You still would have family herein the staes so visiting owuldn’t be an issue.

      I would really like to hear more of your story. Especially how you lost the weight, what is was that landed you in Finland (a job, school).

      I am looking at this route for my NEAR future. I do need to lose the weight as i am at the size you were at your biggest. I know once that is accomplished (the loss of weight), the world is my Oyster.

      i just don’t have the faith in American men White or otherwise in general.

      Please email me if you don’t mind @ niecy101@hotmail.com i don’t want to sidetrack the conversation.

      • ak says:

        I don’t want to color anyone’s opinions or future plans and experiences but for me I just beg to differ. I’ve spent all of my life in either the UK or in the US, and the last time I came back to the UK which is my home for now, the country just up and changed from the civil, chivalrous, well-mannered place I grew up in and had a great childhood in, a lot of the reason for the change is all the European, African, Middle Eastern, and Asian people who have landed here in recent years, decided to take over, and do things their way come hell or high water. The UK just rolls over and lets them.

        So right my now my view of me from….certain…other countries right now is not so good at the moment. Sorry but I prefer the American men because even when they come from a place of ignorance and plain silliness, at least it’s more honest and you know exactly what you’re dealing with. I spent more years in theUS even more than I did in the UK anyway, well so far anyway. White men in the US who weren’t raging bigots didn’t really pose any problem for me whether or not they’re interested in me, or I in them, really.

        • Felicia says:

          AK,

          From everything I’ve heard of late about the UK, it reminds me WAY to much of the United States. When I’m speaking of Europe, I’m speaking specifically of the countries I’ve personally visited and spent extensive amounts of time in which are Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Holland, and France. Those are the only European countries I have personal knowledge of and positive experiences in.

          It seems the UK. is plagued with the same racial baggage to a certain extent, that America is.

          It’s too bad your country has changed on you like that. I’ve also noticed a marked increase in incivility/anger across racial lines here in the US Especially since 9/11 and the election of President Barack Obama.

    • Felicia says:

      berrygirlfin,

      I just wanted to say I really enjoyed your post! My husband is German and I must say, I do feel freer in Europe in many respects. We go back every year. I’m very at home there and YES, it DOES feel good being a positive representation of black women/wives/mothers on an international level. It’s also nice how common WM/BW marriages are there. It’s not thought of as revolutionary, controversial, or surprising like it is here. At least that’s been my experience.

      My husband is doing very well currently here in the states professionally, and we’re quite comfortable. BUT, if a better position in his industry opened up back in Germany, I’d be willing to leave in a HEARTBEAT.

      I LOVE to travel and I don’t have any emotional ties to this country for the very reasons you specified and I consider myself a WORLD citizen. As long as we could visit the states at least once a year to visit family, I’d be totally cool with a move.

      Please don’t be a stranger and stop by again. I really dig your high energy level and positive spirit.

      And FWIW, YES (LOL) It IS nice to not have to deal with or even look at Ray-Ray, Pookie & em. They are thousands of miles away. I’m not saying they don’t exist in Europe because there is a growing black population full of different personalities obviously – , and AA BM don’t hold a monopoly on DBR-ness – but the black folks I’ve encountered overseas haven’t given me, my husband, or our children any trouble. Nor have the native European populations.

    • Hodan says:

      well said, its always more inspiring and impactful to read an uplifting and positive personal journey than a negative and damaging one. Happy for you and your life choices.

  9. Evia says:

    Khadija, I tell ya, AA women(and similar bw) have so much ground to cover in acquiring the knowledge they need to live well. I’ve been looking more in-depth at certain dating/relationship patterns of bw around me and/or the way they even think about this realm of life. I’m going to drill down here by drawing close attention to how some bw don’t know how to play their cards AT ALL during the mating dance and THIS is mainly what allows them to be used so easily by the Pookies, Ray-Rays, or the “nice” guy. And ITA that the “nice” guys (of any race) really benefit BIGTIME from the DBRs, Pookies, Ray-Rays, etc.

    Some time ago, I mentioned my bm cousin who is dating a young bw who he met when she was 27. My bm cousin is early 30s, definitely a “nice” guy, but he’s also a man and a human being who will take advantage if allowed. His girlfriend is beautiful and a sweetie pie, college educated, professional job, good family, etc, but she doesn’t know how to play her cards. SMH She did grow up with her dad and mom in a middle class home, but the AA terrain had been so loaded with landmines until sometimes that doesn’t make a difference these days.

    I’ve really been studying their relationship because I could see from early on how she was messing up, so she has been my “case study.” LOL! I noticed how she allowed him to have sex with her even before he started calling her his girlfriend!!!!! I became very annoyed with him about this because I knew they were having sex and he introduced her as his “friend.” He and I actually had a little argument about that, but I backed off because if she’s going to allow this, then what could I do to stop it?

    Some might call me old-fashioned, but I call it “common sense,” especially in this day and age and especially considering the situation with bw. Anyway, they are now 13 months into the relationship and he has still not put an engagement ring on her finger and there is nothing stopping him since he already has a grad level education, high-paying job, owns his own home, etc. He called me a couple of months ago (probably to pacify me) to discuss the type of diamond he plans to get for her, but she’s off in La-La land without a clue.

    Here’s how he benefits from the Pookie and Ray-Rays from her past and she has dated a few. My cousin pays for all outings, dates and takes her to very nice places, opens doors for her, pumps her gas, carries her packages, buys her nice, tasteful gifts, is very affectionate and loving, is there for her when she needs him, will give her money if she runs short, and of course, he doesn’t hit her, is faithful, etc. She often tells him he’s wonderful and is the best thing that ever happened to her. He’s a gentleman who respects bw, but this should be considered simply NORMAL behavior. She, however, is grateful that she has a no-stress relationship with a college-educated, high-earning “nice” bm. Also, my cousin is the type that a lot of AA women like (good build and easy on the eyes), but this is meaningless.

    And what good are all of his gentlemanly ways to her because she’s getting older and he still has NOT put the ring on her finger. She is NOT putting any pressure on him for marriage and he’s already getting everything he wants. If they broke up this morning, he could get another high quality woman before dark. It would take her a while, if ever, to find someone similar.

    She did tell him initially that she was the marriage-type, but she has not shaped or steered the relationship toward that end. She has totally put the relationship on “automatic.” As it stands now, he is getting everything he wants from the relationship and she’s simply getting older. Baubles, beads, and dinners at nice restaurants are nothing unless your baseline for a man is Pookie and Ray-Ray.

    Here’s the way it should have gone and I’m considering her age because that’s very important. If she were 22, this would be okay, but she’s now 28. BIG difference.

    Since she did tell him early on that she was on the marriage track and he told her the same thing, then by month 3, they should have been talking seriously about where and how they were going to live AFTER they got married, (if all went well,) looking at houses/areas TOGETHER, weighing pros and cons about decisions TOGETHER, talking future goals TOGETHER, discussing money TOGETHER, child-rearing, and SHE should have kept these as front burner discussions all along. At her age and station in life, no later than month 9, she should have had the ring or had a good idea when she would get it. By month 11 or 12, she should have had the ring. They should be knee-deep in wedding plans now. This is not happening and she seems to be okay with it.

    Of course, there can’t be a fixed timetable on any of this because of different circumstances, but this young woman is just drifting along on “automatic.” I wish her the best, but it’s a foolish woman who hands over her future to a man when they don’t have the same amount invested!

    I’m really going to have to switch my focus more to what bw are NOT doing. I know that they don’t know any better, but that doesn’t change anything. Women have always had to put lots of emphasis on shaping and steering relationships because as my grandmom used to say, “As a woman gets older, her chances get fewer.” This is nothing new and all women do it to some extent. A woman must always keep that in mind and keep HER interests on the front burner. This is not selfishness; this is common sense. A man is ALWAYS going to keep his self-interests on the front burner. A woman has to try to make sure she becomes one of his self-interests. If she’s dealing with the right type of man, this is not hard to do.

    • Karen says:

      Many moons ago an older white male colleague (in his late 50’s at the time) was listening to one of the white female engineers in the office who had announced that her boyfriend had just moved in with her. She told the story as if she it showed how “independent” she was. He gave her the side eye, chuckled and stated “why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”.

      She was upset about it but as crude as the comment was, it still is true. If a woman wants to be married and have a family, then wasting time is not an option.

      “A woman must always keep that in mind and keep HER interests on the front burner. This is not selfishness; this is common sense. A man is ALWAYS going to keep his self-interests on the front burner. A woman has to try to make sure she becomes one of his self-interests. If she’s dealing with the right type of man, this is not hard to do.”

      EXACTLY And if he is not the right type of man, then it is time to move on sooner rather than later.

    • tertiaryanna says:

      He’s a gentleman who respects bw, but this should be considered simply NORMAL behavior.

      I think this is one of the worst effects of bad fathers or no fathers in a girl’s life. I believe that if the first time a girl is exposed to gentlemanly behavior is during dating, she’s been set up for failure long before. How can you properly vet a man’s quality and intentionality when you don’t have a solid baseline of normally expected masculine behavior?

      I speak from experience here, because I have confused intentionality with normal chivalrous behavior. So I acted as if the man were pursuing me, when he was just being polite. I think that my experience isn’t uncommon but is one reason why BW offer up the best parts of themselves so freely. If you think that just being polite means something exceptional, you’re not checking as hard to see if the man is worth your romantic interest. You waste your feminine advantage. I learned this the hard way.

      I think that’s another reason for BW to steer clear of no-good men (IRL or in depictions of movies, tv, etc.) Even if you’re not dating them, your opinions of men are being altered by just being exposed to them.

  10. Evia,

    You said, “I’ve really been studying their relationship because I could see from early on how she was messing up, so she has been my “case study.” LOL! I noticed how she allowed him to have sex with her even before he started calling her his girlfriend!!!!! I became very annoyed with him about this because I knew they were having sex and he introduced her as his “friend.” He and I actually had a little argument about that, but I backed off because if she’s going to allow this, then what could I do to stop it?”

    Uh…wow…

    With each new bit of information, I clearly see how our generation of AA women for the most part dropped the ball with raising the now-20-something-year old BW. I would say that 99% of “nice” (as in good reputation) AA girls in our age group knew better than that while still in high school! You didn’t let somebody even think about feeling you up unless and until AFTER he had publicly acknowledged your girlfriend status.

    You said, “Since she did tell him early on that she was on the marriage track and he told her the same thing, then by month 3, they should have been talking seriously about where and how they were going to live AFTER they got married, (if all went well,) looking at houses/areas TOGETHER, weighing pros and cons about decisions TOGETHER, talking future goals TOGETHER, discussing money TOGETHER, child-rearing, and SHE should have kept these as front burner discussions all along. At her age and station in life, no later than month 9, she should have had the ring or had a good idea when she would get it. By month 11 or 12, she should have had the ring. They should be knee-deep in wedding plans now. This is not happening and she seems to be okay with it.”

    And so she’s setting herself up to be strung along into her 30s. Again, our mother’s generation of AA women knew better than that. As I’ve mentioned before, I recall as a teenager hearing older AA women use the expression “Give a n-word 90 days!” Meaning that if the man didn’t start talking/offering plans for marriage—assuming that everything worked out in the future—within 90 days of starting to date, then it was time to DROP him and move on to another man.

    “Give a n-word 90 days!” is why previous generations of AA women didn’t waste entire decades out of their lives—their prime years of childbearing youthfulness—on so-called relationships that never went anywhere. I’ve watched AA women waste 3, 5, 8 years-plus “dating” Negroes who never married them. And then these women are often bitterly disappointed when, after they break up, the same Negro “who wasn’t ready for committment” suddenly marries some other woman after 6 months of dating. Never making the connection that he did this because: (1) he actually valued having that next woman in his life, and (2) that next woman REFUSED to let him waste her time.

    {shaking my head at how far behind the 8-ball so many AA women are—yes, there’s a LOT of catching up that needs to happen}

    Expect Success!

    • Pam in FL says:

      This really jumped out at me:

      “And so she’s setting herself up to be strung along into her 30s. Again, our mother’s generation of AA women knew better than that. As I’ve mentioned before, I recall as a teenager hearing older AA women use the expression “Give a n-word 90 days!” Meaning that if the man didn’t start talking/offering plans for marriage—assuming that everything worked out in the future—within 90 days of starting to date, then it was time to DROP him and move on to another man.”

      I can’t tell you how many women I know have been strung along for years in these realtionships that never move forward to marriage. But the guy is getting his sex needs met on a regular basis, the couple is almost always living together so he’s got someone cooking and claning for him, to, and from his perspective, there is nothing wrong with that picture at all. So he’s happy with that situation, and although the woman wants to get married, any pushing in that direction she might consider doing is abandoned because “good” black men are in short supply, and she doesn’t want to take that chance of making waves in the relationship.

      Here’s an example, using a friend of mine:

      She’s been living with a guy for 6 years from the time she was 23 years old. She’s still not married to him; he says, “I ain’t ready for that kind of thing”. Meanwhile, they have a child together, and he just basically ignores that little boy, and doesn’t do anything at all with, he can’t be bothered with fathering. She’s caught him cheating on her a few times, and suspects that there are many more times she doesn’t know about, and although he doesn’t abuse her, his attitude towards her is mostly indifferent.

      I ask her why she doesn’t leave him, and she says:

      He just needs a little time, he’ll come around.

      It would be hard to find another man since she has never lost the baby weight she gained previously. The same weight she put on because he knocked her up without marrying her, BTW.

      He’s light-skinned and she’s dark, and the odds of that happening again are slim, because the brothers are not into “dark meat”. Plus, it makes attractive babies.

      God has a plan for her happiness.

      She just needs to more acceptiing of his faults as a man so that he will ove her more and then marry her.

      ****************

      I know you’re reading this and shaking your head, but this woman is not stupid. She is nowhere near as stupid as this makes her out to be; she’s actually employed at a pretty demanding job that requires a fair amount of brainpower. It’s just that she’s stupid when it comes to men, in this case, black men, since that’s all she dates, and she has accepted the dogma of how she should act with a balck man and how black men should be allowed to do whatever pleases them. We all know women like this.

      He subtly makes her feel bad about herself, like she can’t get anyone near as good as him because she’s fat, she’s dark, she’s too demanding, etc., and plus, he’s a catch. So, she is wasting what is left of her youth and looks on a loser as the years fly by. She’s stuck on this hamster wheel. He could leave anytime, and, in fact, that what he threatens to do all the time when they fight. So she stays. And her mother, and her sister, and her pastor all tell her “she should just give him more time”. And I’m like, dump that jerk TOMORROW. And sometimes she then gets angry at me for “being so negative”. I’m like, “Can’t you see that you are stuck in this endless loop of low-level pain?”

      But she’s my friend and I love her, so I keep trying.

      Contrast that with a smart young thing I met a few months ago at the dog park. This 22 year-old black girl met a white guy in their senior year at college, they started dating, and within 8 months after their first date, he proposed. BAM! No bastard children along the way, no hemming and hawing, no excuses, she knew what she wanted, he knew what he wanted they went after it, and got it. They both have a bright future ahead as a married couple. She leveraged that window of time when she is at the peak of her physical beauty and unencumbered by the responsibilities life puts on all of us, and nailed down a great life partner and husband early. BTW, he is a very attractive man (think Ryan Reynolds) and a very charming, funny guy (if only I were younger, lol). I would describe her as in the Michelle Obmaa mold, except younger, darker, and more shapely. She is very attractive as well, and I can definitely see how she would drive a lot of men ga-ga.

      Anyway, yeah, that is one smart sister. If only I could grap all of my nieces and shake them, and say, “THAT. That is what you should be doing. Don’t let a man string you along.”

      • Browncow says:

        Pam in FL said: “And I’m like, dump that jerk TOMORROW.”

        How about she needs to dump that jerk YESTERDAY? I get so upset when I hear that women are wasting their youth, beauty, and fertility on useless males. Her also telling you that you are the one being negative when her life is where it is because she doesn’t have the esteem to know that she doesn’t have to put up with that mess. The crabs who are her relatives and so-called spiritual advisers telling her to “hold on, he’ll turn around if you become a contortionist and bend yourself into a pretzel to please him” are the negative ones. They see she’s in pain, but tell her to stay in the gradually heating pot of water until she gets boiled to death. I just don’t get it.

      • Yellow Moon says:

        Pam in FL said:

        “I would describe her as in the Michelle Obmaa mold, except younger, darker, and more shapely. She is very attractive as well, and I can definitely see how she would drive a lot of men ga-ga.”

        I say:

        She would drive a lot of white men ga-ga, but all the black men would be trying to knock her down, trying to make feel like something was wrong with her, and they’d be telling her she was siditty and stuck-up. I can hear it now: “You ain’t all that”. Yep, that’s the way it would go, you know it and I know it, and we all know it.

    • shocol says:

      As I’ve mentioned before, I recall as a teenager hearing older AA women use the expression “Give a n-word 90 days!”

      LOL. I remember that one. I also remember older AA women saying “What one man won’t do, another one will.” Not the most genteel of sayings but loaded with common sense. Sometimes it’s not used in the most ethical of contexts. But at heart, I believe, it’s meant to warn AAW from wasting time on any man who can’t meet your needs because there’s another man out there who can. Of course, that thinking was intended to be applied amongst AA men. Now it’s time for AAW to expand that thinking to all men, WM in particular.

      • MsMellody says:

        To Shocol;

        I almost fell off my chair when I read this:
        “what one man wont do, another one will”…because I thought you had picked up the phone and dialed my mother!!! (lol)

        These have been the EXACT words my mother spoke to me over and OVER again back in the days when I was head strong and refusing to see that I was waisting my youth chasing dbrs and thinking that that was what I was SUPPOSED to do!! But Glory Be I woke up and eventually dated interracially very happily. My only regret is that I waited until my late 30’s.

        But “worry not” as an aunt used to say..I am now happily ir-married, to a loving, caring, quality white man.

        Here’s another gem from one of the older generation AA women ( my mom ) ..” women can look up a lot longer than a man can look down!!”

        Shocol – you are SO right that saying you mentioned – “what one man wont do another one will” is indeed used in not the most ethical of situations. BUT when this idiom CAN be used quite well in this discussion.

        It can be used to examine – the reluctancy/inability of DBRS of getting their act together and it calls the speakers attention to fall on the “man who will”.
        So dear ladies who comment and read here – think about it..who are the men WHO WILL provide protection, families, stable communities, marriages..etc for women?

        The Alpha males that’s who!!! I am so glad Khadija started her discussion above with the break down of “probabilities” in the races for the single women who come to this blog.

        As for me – my “favorability” rating was very high in the category of men who were –
        1. White
        2. Over 35 years old ( because in my early 20’s I was a race woman, overweight, angry about being overweight and had not realized that I was the one with the power of choice!! Yes I will admit that so that some other woman can be blessed by these words)
        3. Serious academics, professionals,
        4. Marriage minded – the majority of the white men I met at this stage in my life ALL said I was a wonderful woman, trustworthy, honest, great personality, beautiful smile, beautiful eyes deep dark chocolate skin ( you get the picture lol!!!)

        I could go on and on. But I hope I got my point across – that I was the same woman when the DBRs were treating me like the floor under their feet..but lo and behold when I put White men on MY MY MY radar these White men treated me like the ceiling above their heads… put ME on a pedestal..loved me..desired it..respected me! MARRIED me!!

  11. Stallion says:

    @Rhonda, you have a point, I’ve never looked at the name that closely. Good Idea I’ll be looking into a better name THANKS.

    YOU SAID (Although, in reference to your comment, I have met very few white American women from the ‘burbs whom I would ever consider to be a lady; the suburbs of the USA, in my opinion, are not the breeding grounds for lady-like behaviour.)

    I believe what I wrote is this “I’ve already shipped myself out to the burbs to get away from toxic areas now comes the grooming etiquette of it all.

    So, in your opinion, what is the breeding grounds for lady like behavior IF you weren’t reered with them?

  12. Felicia says:

    Oshun/Aphrodite said…

    “I am not sure if I agree with that concerning lowering our stock. I think most other normal people/men know that BM are deranged/damaged.

    I mean how normal is it for a man to yell and curse at a woman walking down the street? If I remove myself from this and look outside in – if I saw that occurring to a woman – some man following/threatening a girl, teen, woman yelling and cursing at her (especially if she isn’t responding back or trying to get away)- I would think he is a lunatic raging out of control.

    I totally agree with the above statement. Along with the importance of calling the police ASAP once in a safe position to do so. Away from danger.

    Most people (whites, and other non African-Americans) outside of the black construct (and a good number of African-Americans) DO know that a growing percentage of BM are deranged and damaged. One doesn’t have to look far online to see numerous discussions about this very topic. And I’m not talking white supremacists sites either. They’re damage is common knowledge by now. And these are just online discussions. We know non-blacks are having these discussions offline as well.

    Again, calling the police when feasible is a start. I’ve gotten law enforcement involved before when I’ve been harassed by these animals. Police are more than happy to oblige. They just need BW to alert them. Also, it’s best to physically avoid questionable BM when alone in public period. First of all, one should try to stay away from predominantly black areas to begin with. And, also make sure you’re not in some deserted area. Heavy foot traffic is preferable. If some random damaged negro male is making you feel uncomfortable in public, shadow (join a group walking down the street so you are not alone) another group of people who are predominantly white/non black.

    It’s being ALONE that makes one more of a target. Crazy people regardless of “race” are less likely to attack you when you’re in a group.

    Carrying Mace and taking a self-defense course can’t hurt.

    Again, when these deranged black males start acting up in public, THEY are the ones being tarnished. NOT us. Normal people realize how sick they are.

    What other’s outside of the black construct DO find strange and can’t understand is why BW – especially those who have something on the ball – have anything to do with the majority of BM. That’s what people think is odd and strange about us. I agree with them.

  13. Evia says:

    @Khadija re:

    And so she’s setting herself up to be strung along into her 30s. Again, our mother’s generation of AA women knew better than that.

    Yep, a straight up setup.

    As I’ve mentioned before, I recall as a teenager hearing older AA women use the expression “Give a n-word 90 days!” Meaning that if the man didn’t start talking/offering plans for marriage—assuming that everything worked out in the future—within 90 days of starting to date, then it was time to DROP him and move on to another man.

    LOL! I remember you using that expression before. Those older bw didn’t use 50 billion words to say anything. They drove the point home in a few words, but these days, we practice pc, and a lot or MOST of the point gets lost.

    If a woman is on the marriage track, the purpose of dating for HER is to find out whether she and the guy are compatible for marriage–not to just have someone to go out with for dinner and the movies. My cousin’s girlfriend is thrilled to be away from Pookie, so she has EXHALED and has completely lost sight of the purpose of dating him. The purpose of dating for a man is mainly to get SEX but if he wants to keep that woman and is not getting sex from her, he’s going to do what he needs to do to get sex, which in most cases will be to marry her, if all goes well in the relationship. So many women worry about losing the man though. The bottom line is that a man is of NO VALUE to a young marriage-bound woman if all he’s doing is giving her sex and dinners. She should be able to feed herself and it’s easy for a woman to get sex, if that’s all she wants. She can go to the movies with her girlfriends, so why allow a man to use up her youth?

    What part of this is rocket science??? SMH There must be something about this that I’m not getting because I absolutely don’t understand her.

    “Give a n-word 90 days!” is why previous generations of AA women didn’t waste entire decades out of their lives—their prime years of childbearing youthfulness—on so-called relationships that never went anywhere. I’ve watched AA women waste 3, 5, 8 years-plus “dating” Negroes who never married them.

    Yes, I’ve seen this too. And they then totally blame the man. Well if I could just keep test driving a new car for free or with no-strings, why would I ever buy it?? I’m a good person, but if I could drive a car for free, I’d do it forever.

  14. Oshun/Aphrodite says:

    @ Evia and Khadija,

    Ok, I have to admit that I didn’t know this. I know that I have heard Evia mention steering men towards marriage, but something like this:

    “You didn’t let somebody even think about feeling you up unless and until AFTER he had publicly acknowledged your girlfriend status.”

    is concrete.

    I am celibate and wish to delay that for as long as possible, but hearing an example like that really gives me or someone like me something to work with.

  15. Monique says:

    Oh wow… where to begin

    First, thank you, Khadija for selecting my comment to be placed in this post. I am honored.

    Second, I commend you and many other former Black Nationalist “Race Women” who have seen the light and have placed their womanhood above the race. I, too was a “nationalist” of the African centered school. I truly believed in “Black Love” and my “duty” to love, marry and reproduce with my “Black King” I fell for all that talk of the regality of Black Africa and the re-building of the Black family. I was all gung ho for it…until I relaized that BM left me and other BW holding the bag and doing all the WORK. Even in the Black college organizations that I belonged to, me and other black women planned and organized and budgted and executed while “da brothas” sat around and talked…oh and chased WW.

    And let me be very clear it wasn’t the mixed race, “exotic” racially ambiguous BW that did the work and was left without black male companionship or attention it was the brown and dark-skinned BW who were passed over and pushed aside and although we were the “mothers of civilization” we weren’t good enough to date or take out, that “honor” was for the fairer, lighter non-black looking BW.

    As I got older and dated more BM, I realized that it just wasn’t youth or immaturity, but a deep-rooted problem with BM and their inability to…DO. Their inability to really LEAD and MAKE things happen. They talk an excellent game, they got words for days…but there is realy NO ACTION, there’s nothing backing that up. It all just sounds really good. I also realized the BM really resented BW and took us granted.

    When I finally ralized that as a BW, me and othrer BW were in this all alone, I cried. I literally cried. Because everything that I had believed for years, all the time that I had wasted on no-count low value “nice” BM whom I thought wanted the same things I wanted, all the fantasies had to be stripped away and I was forced to realize that there would be no “Black Utopia” where BW and BM reigned supreme. That I was abandoned by “my” men and left to figure it all out by myself.

    And I did…it was hard and it was harrowing because I was indoctrinated to believe that the WM was my oppressor, the WM was my rapist, the WM was my tormentor, he destroyed our beautiful, “peaceful happy home” in Africa. The thought of actually dating a WM was antithetical to all that propaganda and it scared me to death.

    BUT, as I grew, as I becme more aware of Black feminist writers and thinkers, as I analysed the situationt between BW and BM it became clear to me that as a BW who wanted a more fullfiling life, a more abundant life, a richer (and i don’t just mean monetarily richer) life I relaized that I HAD to consider WM as viable partners… and that getting us to deny our right as women to pursue our bliss, our own happiness, our self interest and be content to eb mules and “sista soldjas” for BM for eternity was the greatest jedi-mind trick BM and the defunct BC ever pulled on BW.

    I agree that dating and marrying a WM is not only a viable and pertinent solution to the issues facing several educated professinal marriage-seeking BW, but it’s also the most strategic one. and BW NEED to think strategically. We must. I agree that most men of color are incrdeibly color struck and exhibit such haeful behaviors within their own cultures and will do so with BW.

    Is finding, dating and marrying a WM easy? No, it is not. There will be lots of work to be done on ourselves as BW to make aoursleves more appealing to non-BM, particualrly WM. It is anundertaking where wea are going to have to study, think and re-position ourselves to make WM take notice of us WITHOUT losing our femininity or uniquness as BW. It won’t be easy and I don’t have all they answers, but I know it is an undertaking we CAN do.

    I agree with Khadija’s assessment termed the “Cultural Oppositional Defiant Disorder” it affects far too many of us and we need to divest ourselves from behaviours that display this disorder, that is certinly a first step.

    It’s been a journey but a fruitful one and I’m blessed to have found my way to these blogs for guidance and sustenance.

    Let’s get to work, ladies!

    p.s. berrygirlfin you said
    “#4. You are the standard for the Black American Female. Why not play the exotic female to (YOUR) full advantage for once!! All that my Finnish friends and family know of me and black American females is that we are attractive, loving, social butterflies, fit for love, marriage and protection from some lucky man. Because I’m it. I’m the experience. I make the example. I set the standard. That is a great treasure to me. I will not ever let it slip. I have that responsibility to my daughters and any other black girl coming after me!”

    beautifully said! and another answer/solution/practice we can do to jumpstart our new “PR” campaign.

  16. SeriousSally says:

    Firstly, I need to thank you, Khadija. Thank you for investing your precious resources (time, thought etc.) in creating this garden for us. It’s bearing the most nutritious and delicious of fruits. Thank you for taking the time to weed out the ignorance, fear and hate in the comments, so that these conversations stay on point, and we don’t have to be exposed to that toxicity. Allah (swt) reward you many times over, what you are giving is priceless.

    I hope that you will put a little donation button on the blog so that those who may want to contribute in lieu of or in addition to purchasing your book can do so.

    Now, Berrygirl I nearly cried when I read your post. I believe your contribution brought a new level of analysis to the conversation. While marrying the Alpha man in this country is a huge step up, recognition of how they obtained and maintain that status as a function of black women’s –amongst others– resources is essential.

    Liberation (taking full advantage of our freedom of choice) includes recognition of our value as black women and complete ownership of our resources. This includes calculated and well thought out decisions about who benefits from those resources. Our physical beauty, creativity, problem-solving and analysis, our intellect, time, and effort translate into real material goods and improved quality of life for someone. The first someone to benefit must be us, next the husband and children we produce then extended family and so on and so forth.

    Marriage is an investment of our resources, it’s like purchasing good land. The better the quality of the man, his family, his culture etc. the more we get out of that land. But the resources we (as the women of the house) invest thereafter can determine a lifetime of abundance for ourselves generations of abundance for our offspring.

    • Hodan says:

      I concur, I would donate, heck I’m trying to figure out how to purchase Khadija’s e-book.

      [Khadija speaking: Thank y’all so much for the good wishes! 🙂 Here’s something that you could do that would mean more to me than donations (although I appreciate the thought, and I’m deeply thankful for your support and good wishes):

      If you would like to support this message, please buy an extra copy of my book and donate it to a public library branch located in a Black neighborhood. If you do that—and I hope you do—it’s impossible to know how many BW and Black girls will come across my book while browsing the shelves in that library branch.

      It would be helpful to have some counterweights to Steve Harvey’s mess on the shelves of public libraries in Black neighborhoods.

      I often donate my old books to the public library branch in my childhood neighborhood. Many years ago, I noticed that almost every Chicago Public Library branch I visited on Chicago’s Black South Side had not just one—but numerous—books about Israel. Which I found to be very . . . peculiar . . . in neighborhoods that have ZERO% Jewish residents. But then it ocurred to me: people who care about themselves make sure their viewpoints are broadcast far and wide.

      At that point, I decided to make sure that the public library branch in my childhood neighborhood had the books that I felt were important for the folks in that neighborhood to have free access to. There are certain books that I buy an extra copy of just so that I can donate them to the public library branch in my all-Black childhood neighborhood.

      Again, thank you so much for your kind words and support!]

      • Robynne says:

        This is a very good idea Khadija. Will do. I’ll send some copies home too. Some of what you speak of is applicable beyond the shores of the US as well. I’ve referred some of my AA & Caribbean girlfriends to your website. This conversation is particularly relevant to my AA friend, who has been dating her bf for ten years with nary a ring in sight. She has made it clear to him that she wishes to be married, but nada action – for 10 years – on his part.

        • Robynne,

          THANK YOU!! 🙂

          Expect Success!

        • Vanessa F. says:

          The donating of BWE related books (and books on black women in general) to libraries is a great idea. This will be my Christmas/holiday gift to the two branches near my home. I am an advisory council member of my city’s library system and just in the last meeting mentioned the recent promoting of several black women authors of the library’s Writers series. I will definitely make a plug for more specific bwe focused books at our next meeting which actually will be held during black history month.

          [Khadija speaking: THANK YOU! :-)]

      • LaJane Galt says:

        I’m going to do this!!

      • Neecy says:

        Serious Sally SAID:
        Thank you for taking the time to weed out the ignorance, fear and hate in the comments, so that these conversations stay on point, and we don’t have to be exposed to that toxicity.

        NEECY SAYS:
        EXACTLY! I know it takes a lot of time to have to read through all the comments and such but i really appreciate the ability to come here and not have to deal with ingrates or people who are trying to thwart the overall mission of us moving forward.

        KHADIJA:
        Done.

        I have already bought a copy myself months ago and I would be MORE than happy to buy a couple more copies and do exactly what you suggested. i do think you give us such VALUABLE information, that anyway in which we can pay you back or help you would be an honor!!

        [Khadija speaking: THANK YOU.

        And THANK YOU, Neecy, in particular for being a truly supportive supporter of the BWE message and most of all, for your fellow BWE readers. I’m sure you know what I’m talking about.

        Thank you for defending the BWE message, BWE bloggers, and your fellow BWE blog readers from the colored Marie Antoinettes who have apparently been inconvenienced by hearing of other BW’s oppression. It’s tragic that hearing about oppression puts a crimp in their day. How dreadful for them. My heart bleeds for their discomfort.

        There were others who spoke up while BWE blog, BWE bloggers, and other BWE blog readers were being sniped at—and I’m truly thankful for EVERYBODY who demonstrated true solidarity by opening their mouths to defend the rest of us. Neecy, your voice was one of the clearest voices in our collective defense.

        Thank you for standing up while these potshots were passively allowed to be taken . . . without challenge . . . .

        Thank you for standing up for the principle of BW having some SAFE SPACES. Most online and offline AA spaces are jam-packed with hateful, anti-BW filth. I know it’s a radical idea, but I believe there should be some places of peace and safety for BW.

        Well, for the sake of long-term strategy, that’s all I plan to say about this matter. But I didn’t want to let the opportunity to thank you pass by without comment. Thank you, and thanks to EVERY reader who defended BWE bloggers and other BWE blog readers in our absence during a recent conversation at another forum.]

  17. Nathalie says:

    These conversations are so important. Most black women don’t get schooled in what one of my teachers calls “The Womanly Arts” and that combined with the landmines and nerve gas throughout “the community” has been deadly to us. Women in functioning groups can coast even without this type of tutelage because they are operating in a social system that has maintained functionality and social order regarding mating and childbearing/rearing. Black women have been set in the wilderness. We must share and use this information to make course corrections of our own errors and to educate girls who are coming up and other women who want to learn. As a parent, I’m also constantly thinking about how we can nurture our sons into becoming men of integrity who will make excellent mates should they choose to do so. *goes back to taking and comparing notes*

  18. Truth P. says:

    Well since we are telling the whole truth i’d like to remind everybody here that I myself partially grew up in the ghetto and chose a life of celibacy as well as some of my other black girlfriends who saw that many of the black boys and men were triflin and always up to no good.

    I only mention this because there is always talk of so many of us,particularly us project/ghetto girls, picking damaged men.
    I actually know a few women who did not start dating until they were out of our neighborhood into college.
    I also have a few former friends from the ghetto who were as reclusive as me.We lived in a neighborhood that we rarily went outside in.For the most part you’d only see us coming and going.So much so that people who’d lived around us for years would sometimes be shocked to see us and would say things like “long time no see”.
    In the summer when school was out we hardly came out at all unless it was to get in the car and go somewhere else.

    There were a bunch of us that didn’t go for the guys around us and we were called stuck up among other things

    [Khadija speaking: You said, “I only mention this because there is always talk of so many of us,particularly us project/ghetto girls, picking damaged men.” I don’t recall seeing anybody say that here. Those teenage Black girls who are trapped in the hood are just that—trapped among mutants. Such girls need to do all they can to move out and away from the hood as soon as they’re college-aged.

    The BW that I think of—and blame the most for taking up with Pookie and Ray-Ray—are destructive BF fools like Miss Chanequa Campbell and Miss Brittany Smith, formerly of Harvard. There they both were…at Harvard…surrounded by future Alpha (White) males… and what did at least one of them do? Take up with an allegedly drug-dealing, allegedly murdering Pookie. A Pookie who allegedly goes on to KILL somebody on Harvard’s campus.

    In addition to young BW at majority White universities, I’m also thinking of the legions of white-collar AA women who are literally surrounded by eligible, quality nonblack men at work all day, everyday. And yet most of these AA women close themselves off to the possibility of finding a husband from among the quality nonblack men that surround them everyday at work. That’s who I’m mostly talking about.]

    • Truth P. says:

      I agree Khadija.No.Noone HERE did say that.My apologies if I offended you or anyone else in the reading audience. [Khadija speaking: No offense taken. I just wanted it to be clear that I wasn’t saying anything like that.]

      I must clarify that this is something I’ve been seeing on other sites that are geared to black women.Some people,naysayers and haters, are allowed in on conversations and this is the first thing they say about us ghetto girls.That we choose these characters.

      We are not the Chanequa Cambells.We would not give those kinds of men or boys a chance in the hood when we were submerged in large groups of them.College and other non black areas are our exscape. [Khadija speaking: Again, to clarify: It’s not just some of the young BW students from the hood who do that mess while in college. I’m also thinking of destructive, Black middle-class college fools like Kemba Smith who get to campus and then take up with Pookie. Which is why I never cared about what happened to Ms. Smith. Her choice to take up with drug-dealing Pookie was so totally unnecessary. Her rear end could have stayed in prison for the rest of her natural life for all I cared.

      I admire the BW—especially the Black teenage girls—in the hood who are sensible and brave enough to shun Pookies until they can escape the hood. Even when it means they temporarily have to live like a recluse to avoid Pookies while living in that toxic environment.]

  19. sisterlocgirl says:

    Reality is harsh, but the truth will indeed set you free. Many bw have a great deal of internal work to do before or in tandem with stepping out into the global village to find a suitable husband. I believe Khadijah posted a link to a website about learning the art of femininity or such, and for many bw this would be a good place to start. Evia also has wonderful resources on this topic as well. Ladies, wm are definitely interested in bw, and what’s more they are willing to marry us and live their lives proudly with their little chocolate beauties. What you believe does indeed become your reality. The constant ” WM don’t like BW ” argument is the default position planted by self serving folk who don’t want us to feel good about ourselves or leave the role of caregiver/mule to the world. The young lady who posted her experience from Scandinavia made some very salient points that can be utilized by most bw here in the states. If you have escaped the Matrix, then redefine yourself. Don’t accept other peoples definition ofyour beauty, worth, or anything else. Slavery is over people, and i’m quite tired of that being used as an excuse for not moving on and making better decisions. Let bm go. The majority have made it abundantly clear that they have no desire to be with us. They have obtained their forbidden fruit ( a white/asian/latina/mixed race/nonblack woman ) and make no bones about that choice. Well guess what? WM have also started obtaining their forbidden fruit ( black women ) as well. Take the time to onvest in yourself and obtain the right information ( Evia’s books & newsletters ) so you can develop a gameplan that will optimize your life. Just a thought. . .

  20. ak says:

    Maybe I should, or should have put this back in the last post but I’m surprised no one has mentioned the ultimate proof of Pookie and Ray Ray = Good Black Men (TM): The revelations of black women in upper middle class marriages in Prince George’s County, Maryland getting beaten up and near murdered by their professional black husbands.

    Essence did a story on this a couple or a few years ago whenever it was(?) That was horrible to hear of what sounded like most of the black women in that county having what looked like ‘equally yoked’ middle class marriages living like a Lifetime movie or like Farrah Fawcett’s The Burning Bed.

    One black woman has to live with 3rd degree burns all over her body from her husband who had his own business, who set her on fire. Her scalped looked like it burnt too; I doubt her hair will ever grow back. One black woman was homeless temporarily and was put up by her friend in this county who had one of these white-collar working black husbands and he used to beat up the wife while the friend was living there. One night the wife was bout to call the cops to stop him, and the friend she invited to stay with them took the the phone from her and hung it up because she ‘didn’t want to see another brutha go to jail’.

    I always see too much evidence of black women who hate each other and themselves yet would gladly let their faces be used as a seat for a black man’s posterior.

  21. ak says:

    Oh yes also regarding the Prince George’s County situation, the black chirch leaders in that area were preaching this ‘wife is the subordinate to her husban trash which was used as the sorry excuse for these BM to beat down their wives.

    The whole situation just sounds like another sorry excuse for the whole ‘BM are hard on BW and beat on them because WM make everything so hard for the BM’ thing. It’s all too ‘The Colour Purple’. Or these professional Ray Rays just think they should be worshipped by their black wives, while they wouldn’t feel entitled to any obligations if their wives weren’t black at all.

  22. Melanie says:

    I just love reading these topics and seeing all the comments. I just love hearing about BW figuring out things and making changes. I am very fortunate because I have a very analytical mind and had figured out the BM game very early. I have never dated a BM because I knew it would lead NOWHERE!!! I have always liked wm and that’s who I wanted to date. I didn’t date in HS, but I think I was a late bloomer and in the 80s and early 90s things were a litle harder. But when I went away to a primarily white college, I had the time of my life. I dated wm there and my girlfriends could never figure out how I got taken out to dinner etc and all they got was a hookup. The few blacks students there esp the bm really didn’t like me and now I think the bm didn’t like me b/c I had a good dating life and didn’t give them a thought AT ALL…it was like they were not in my world. Most of the guys I dated in college have been in longterm marriages with legitimate children so I know I dated good guys…just timing. I met my husband at the end of my last year of college and within 2 months we were talking marriage, engaged at 6 months, married at 1.5 years. I was not playing that long term relationship with no end in sight…neither was my hubby. He truly wanted to get married. It’s been 15 years and we are truly happy with our two girls. I often look around and observe people..BW in particular and we are sooooo awesome. We are interesting, and phenomenal. We have been through so much and yet we are here making the world better. How could anyone not be attracted to us…

    • MsMellody says:

      Melanie – this is awesome!!

      I hope all the young women who come to this site will read and then re-read your comment and LEARN the lesson needed from this comment.

      You did exactly the RIGHT thing and I applaud you and congratulate you..and thank you for a truly uplifting comment!!!

  23. joyousnerd says:

    I just want to clarify my earlier statement about street harassment. I already moved years and years ago out of the ghetto, so I’m not speaking specifically about my current life circumstances, but more about the large numbers of BW who still frequent or are trapped in the ghetto.

    Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that everyone can see BM are insane and out of control when they publicly abuse BW. Everyone can see they are damaged.

    However, we BW are the only group of people in the country that one can safely abuse to that degree in public. Of course this doesn’t say that we are bad people, but it does say that it is safe to abuse us! Not a good look. It says that we are Dumping Grounds and that nobody should be concerned for our welfare. Let a BM start screaming on a little Asian girl and watch the world reverse on its axis to correct the situation; nobody would tolerate it for a nanosecond. But everyone stands silently by when BM abuse us. This puts us on the bottom of the totem pole in the perception of everyone else in the country; in the Safe To Abuse category. I want that changed.

    Calling the cops is a good idea on several levels. It will make an impact on the individual DBR, showing him that SOME of us will not take it. It will show any bystanders that we aren’t just going to tolerate that abuse and it isn’t just some facet of AA culture. It shows the cops that we aren’t all with that Stop Snitching BS. AND most important of all, it can hopefully keep us safe from the threatening jerk in question.

    I’m so happy to have heard from the reader in Finland! I married an American but if I had it to do over again I would not. I would have married a European man; if not a Scandinavian than a German, Dutch or Austrian perhaps. I know the men of Scandinavia love black women AND are very good husbands- cooking, cleaning and childcare are expected of them. Congrats on your wise decision, hopefully more classy AA women will follow in your footsteps.

    • Karen says:

      My spouse is also European and there is something to be said for not dealing with the American historical baggage. It is not insurmountable to overcome, of course, but is nice not be confronted with such issues.

  24. PhillyIR says:

    I am new to this site and am glad I found it. I am a 55 yo BW who married a WM 13 years ago. My life is happy, complete, secure and comfortable. Isn’t that what all Black women want and deserve?

    The viewpoints and thoughts posted here are dead on. I have been down the same roads many of you have and know that if Black women put themselves first and widen their horizons that there is a much better life for us. I have found that with a husband devoted and committed to me and our life together.

    Ladies continue to post the truth about the state of the Black Community and the current generation of Black men. Something has gone terribly wrong with the current generation of BM. They are nothing like the men of my father’s generation, men born during the depression and having lived through the worse that Jim Crow could offer.
    That generation of Black men was devoted to the family. Something went wrong around the 60’s and things have been going down hill ever since.

    I will continue to read and learn and try to steer as many younger Black Women in the direction of this site. These young women need the wisdom found here.

  25. Hodan says:

    Khadija: “Other people of color tend to be as racist and colorstruck as AA males. Some of these cultures are racist and colorstruck among themselves. South Asians (East Indians and Pakistanis) are extremely bad with this even among themselves. Skin color is one of the features they prominently mention in the marriage ads they place in their own publications. I’ve seen them do this on a routine basis in ads in immigrant Muslim publications. Since these people do this among themselves, they’re really not into the idea of courting and marrying BW.”

    Hodan: Very true, I remember when I was in grade 8, a family friend’s daughter ended up marrying a Pakistani/Indian guy. During the wedding ceremony/walima, the South Asian Imaam quoted the verse dealing with freed slaves, as if though saying its alright to married these ‘n***’….which were the Somali family, because Allah told us to do so. You could just imagine the shock and anger in the whole room. The Somali Imaam who was representing the girl since he was her closest male relative and guardian took the mic and gave the guy a piece of his mind about his ignorance of the Quran and racism. I remember the horror I felt when my mom was telling me about it and she warned me against ‘Arab/Asian’ men because many of them aren’t just racist, but have issues among themselves. This is not an isolated case either. For one, many South Asian families have an oppressive system where the daughter in law lives with the husband’s family and is often dictated to by the mother in law. Heck, a lot of my SA girlfriends hate it and one of them almost got divorced because of it.

    Khadija: THE OBVIOUS, COMMON-SENSE SOLUTION IS FOR MORE AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN TO MARRY OUT—SPECIFICALLY TO WHITE MEN. WE NEED TO STOP MINCING WORDS ABOUT THIS.

    Hodan: I think I’m coming to that conclusion even though I did not grow up conscious of any given ‘black culture or identity’. Ethnic culture mixed with religion is what predominated in many of our communities, specially Muslim families. However, White Men are often at the bottom of the choice when it comes to marrying for many African girls. For a long time we felt hesitant admitting our attraction to WM, for the fear that it meant self hate or rejection of our heritage. However, as we grew up and went on to Uni and traveled the world, we know what we want and our families have either accepted it or will eventually when the time comes. One thing we just don’t do thou, is go around saying ‘nothing but a black man’. For one, why eliminate quality men with such a loud and obnoxious comments…..2nd as a Muslim, race should never be a consideration when it comes to marriage.

    [Khadija speaking: You said, “Hodan: Very true, I remember when I was in grade 8, a family friend’s daughter ended up marrying a Pakistani/Indian guy. During the wedding ceremony/walima, the South Asian Imaam quoted the verse dealing with freed slaves, as if though saying its alright to married these ‘n***’….which were the Somali family, because Allah told us to do so. You could just imagine the shock and anger in the whole room. “

    Wow! Lord have mercy…{shaking my head}]

  26. Tina says:

    I am so happy to read these comments. I figured out that professional/educated black men were no better than ray ray and Pookie when I was in graduate school. I chose to attend an Hbcu for various reasons and like many of my black female classmates, I was hoping to snag a great husband too. Well the black guys there focused on taking advantage of and screwing as many black women as possible. It was quite pitiful and sad to see such dysfunctional relationships amongst “educated” black men and women. The men were definitely dbrbm for the most part and when i say for the most part i mean 80 to 90 percent of them. Nearly all of the top ranking students in my program were black women since there were not enough hours in the day for black male students to screw as many women as possible and study. I never witnessed such dysfunction. Surprisingly enough it was my grad school experience at a respected hbcu that made me realize that I needed to escape the sinking ship. I would have never guessed that would happen.

    I’d advise any black woman against attending an hbcu if their primary motivation is to find an IBM. Lets be honest, many women hope to meet their husband while in school and black women may be better off going to a great school where you will have the opportunity to socialize with all types of men. I totally support hbcus but don’t go there dreaming you will get a degree and a husband unless you are willing to sacrifice your dignity and fight with other women.

    • Karen says:

      It is not only the dignity that you sacrifice, it is the exposure to STDs including HIV/AIDS that should be reason enough for young AA BW to avoid HBCUs.

      Khadija had a post on this very issue. Clear language: HBCUs have become dangerous places for young AA BW. They should be avoided at all costs. They are no longer the universities of our parent’s generation.

    • Karen,

      Thanks for the shout-out of the posts from the previous blog that specifically dealt with the nightmare that HBCUs are for BW students.

      From For The Love Of God, DON’T Send Your Daughters To Historically Black Colleges post and discussion:

      It just occurred to me that this is an excellent opportunity for audience members to do the mental exercise of playing “geostrategy nerd” regarding something that is of the utmost importance: our children’s safety. Prior to the most recent Geostrategy Nerd post, I had been talking “at” you about what I see as emerging trends.

      Let’s do something different this time. This time, I’m inviting you to do the research WITH me about an issue. Let’s reason together, and work through the details of my concerns TOGETHER, at the same time. [I’ll add links to relevant articles, etc. as the conversation progresses. On second thought, I’ll leave those citations in the comments section—it’s worth the time to read through this conversation.]

      But, first, you have to guess what my specific concern is about Black female students attending HBCUs in this modern era! *Smile*

      . . . So far, people have mentioned the purely social dynamics that are problematic at historically Black colleges and universities. The emotional difficulties caused by these negative social dynamics are serious, but they’re not what’s most dangerous about these campuses for young African-American women.

      I submit to you that these same, negative social dynamics have literally life-threatening repercussions. Repercussions that have already begun to emerge at several historically Black colleges. These repercussions were in the news about 5 years ago; however I’ve never heard anyone “connect the dots” or sound the alarm about this particular topic in a LOUD voice.

      Here are 3 (somewhat) interlocking hints:

      1-In what way can we say that Washington, D.C. (where Howard University is located) has replaced San Francisco?

      2-Historically Black colleges; and

      3-The gender imbalances at HBCUs. According to Understanding Gender at Public Historically Black Colleges and Universities: A Special Report of the Thurgood Marshall Scholarship Fund, Inc., “Females are a majority (63%) of the total number of students enrolled at the 45 public Historically Black Colleges and Universities. . . ” pg. 10. http://www.thurgoodmarshallfund.org/downloads/2006_gender_study.pdf

      What’s the emerging, life-threatening problem at these schools that nobody’s really talking about? A problem that will only get worse, using our previous collective behavior as a roadmap?

      The very first reader who commented on that post gave the correct answer:

      Hi Khadija!

      Are you talking about the AIDS epidemic affecting black women, particularly in Washington, DC?

      BINGO!

      In reply, I said,

      Hello there, [Reader]!

      You’re our grand winner who got a hole in one!

      {deep martial arts bow in salute}

      Yes, the unchecked spread of HIV/AIDs at HBCUs is EXACTLY the problem I was talking about!

      Here’s the equation:

      Gender imbalance that favors BM students at HBCUs—

      + the resulting increased amounts of mansharing by BF students on these campuses

      + Washington, DC replacing San Francisco as an HIV/AIDs capital (so dating BM from off-campus in DC is also HIGH-risk given the epidemic conditions there)

      + the inherent homophobia of the AA community, particularly the Black South where the bulk of these HBCUs are located

      + the resulting increased closeted, “down low” behaviors by a percentage of BM students who might feel freer to self-identify as gay/bisexual if they weren’t at HBCUs

      + a spike in HIV infection rates among Black students that was briefly reported on in 2004

      + fewer “degrees of social separation” between AA college students/graduates and HIV+ jailbirds and drug addicts

      = HBCUs becoming HIV/AIDS magnets and centers!

      I won’t add links to news stories to this post just yet. I’ll let folks think for a moment before they get to the answer here in the comments section.

      But here’s a news story from 2004 that folks can start with:

      “Black colleges seek to stem HIV cases” http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4556054/

      Expect Success!

      • cal says:

        You have to vet men totally, everywhere today–in ALL colleges not just HBCUs; there is 65+ women to 35% men today–you need to watch ‘country boy’ white dudes too (especially if there tattoed)but..alas, BM are the worst today as a group

    • ak says:

      Tina my GOD!

  27. Lorraine says:

    Greetings Sister Khadija.

    I do read your words of wisdom and take it all in, but thought I would chime in on this post. So many good points here (as usual). I appreciate calling out these ed-ju-ma-cated dbrs and as I told you before my sister has hooked up with one of them. Not only is he 55 to her 38, he is controlling. He is her first and only boyfriend. Because she refuses to go 15 minutes outside her comfort zone, my sister never considered that she could get a good man. She is so determined not to marry white because her sisters did that she got the worst kind of dbr negro out there. Yeah, she’ll be taking care of his big behind (he misses work often because of his bad back) and paying child support to his minor children. I have prayed hard for her to open her eyes before the October 2011 wedding date but she won’t see and she is lost. My two other sisters and I are all from the same family but by her being the last child, my parents babied her well into adulthood —Super mistake. I saw the writing on the wall but was shut down back in the 80s when I said something. My parents give this man their blessing.

    I am so sorry to rant, but my sister belongs with the slaves who were afraid to make their escape from the plantation, or couldn’t see themselves leaving even after emancipation (“Well, at least we’s fed here and massa don’t work us all that hard, and we’s dry in our little shacks”) She will wear a mental burqa and never know happiness unless she frees her mind. As of now, she is sooooo in love with this man who still lives with his mother and has no car.

    He only got an advanced degree because my sister decided to get hers so they did it together. I think he did it so she would not outshine his old behind. I see nothing but misery in her future and will continue to pray that she doesn’t have to settle for this dbr trash. He is every bit Pookie and Ray ray and calls my sister throughout the day to find out her whereabouts. Any logical, sensible person on the outside can see clearly what he is doing, but I have seen women of all ages blind to their men and will even say: “I don’t want to hear nothing about my man!”

    Again, sorry to rant.
    lorraine

    Nice discussion/comments ladies and the pic is funny. Is it photoshopped?

  28. CNS says:

    I am new to this site and am glad I found it. I am a 55 yo BW who married a WM 13 years ago. My life is happy, complete, secure and comfortable. Isn’t that what all Black women want and deserve?

    I am happy to hear this because I am 42yrs old and I am looking to be happily married to a non-black male soon. Your story gives me hope.

  29. Anne1 says:

    Joyousnerd, …”These DBRs know not to show out to the same degree when others are around.” ITA because I’ve experienced this personally, during relationship counseling of all places. It was a such a switch, just sitting there lying to make himself look good. Talk about lost of ALL trust? I left him alone shortly after THAT session.

    “Not even a urine-soaked hobo”… is hysterical, Lord knows that reference just cracks me up!

    berrygirlfin…”Scandinavian countries have the highest standard of living in all the world.” I had no idea! My issue with Europe is that I hate cold weather, aren’t the winters brutal? I’m hoping to find one stateside in my neck of the woods (smile).

  30. focusedpurpose says:

    ok…i am back. lol. creating multiple streams of income, mentoring, and putting other plans into action take a great deal of my time these days.

    not to mention, i have had a bit of a mourning period. it is a sad day when one has to recognize that they have folks close to them that need to be cut…at the very least RE-positioned. i am a relator by nature (for those that have read, “now identify your strengths”) you know relators build deep relationships. severing and re-positioning folks has kind of knocked me down in many ways. i reevaluated and realized i had sista soldiers, “nice guys” of different complexions (one was a multi-millionaire so i had to definitely get over the dilemma one faces when they must be their “higher” selves. it is KARMA that always keeps me in check. lol. my little inner devil whispered a way to create “workability.” lol.)and let us not forget VERY entitled folks that needed to be cut like split ends…with the quickness. knowing and doing proves a painful experience for me at times.

    @ Mobile68 i co-sign your earlier comment.

    @Joyousnerd, CALL THE POLICE PERIOD. you don’t even need a trailer to broadcast the coming attractions. IF you are in an area where folks don’t have hometraining, PROGRAM the LOCAL police department in your phone. 911 in some instances re-routes you to the highway patrol which delays the response time. call the police, give a description and keep it moving. i have done this before to incredulous “oh, you really gone call the police on a brotha?” comments. which i didn’t even bother to answer. one can always show you better than they can tell you. lol. nowadays, i don’t run into these fools. the misbehaving negroes are on tv. turning the channel promptly removes them from my queendom.

    Evia, it was you that called me out on my mourning/magical thinking re: the so called black community. you did it with such precision that i immediately defaulted to stand and go into battle mode. for this i extend a heartfelt apology. in truth, i was in the denial phase of grief. looking back, i can see this clearly now. often i visit your blog and learn a great deal from your straight no chaser common sense approach. my full denial display was done publicly. as such i feel my apology should be as well.

    Khadija, your blog has helped me in more ways than you could ever know. even when silent, i am reading, cross referencing, storing info to implement and execute to walk according to my full potential. thank you for creating a spot where folks can come and learn from so many intelligent women.

    confession:

    when it comes to business, i have always been shrewd. i have always been able to hold my best interest front and center. MY best interest IS the prize that i keep my eye on at all times. i have learned, as a benefit of integration, how to do this WITHOUT anyone ever thinking to use “aggressive” as an adjective to describe me. LOL. can you say kiss of death? i have fine tuned the art of velvet hammerism. lol. or as someone told me, i have a gift for cutting straight to the chase without anyone knowing the surgery has happened. lol.

    but that is business.

    when it comes to the personal, my good sense has had a bad habit of falling right out of my head. lol. in business i tend to lead with my head/intellect. in the personal, i tend to lead with my heart/emotions. ESPECIALLY when i was a fist raised, power to the people, fight the power type of woman.

    after painfully wrenching my head around and facing the painful truth, i have now enacted a business approach to matters of the heart. lol. and i must say it has been working quite well for me.

    business owners know that when you hire employees, there is a 30-60-90 approach to your and their relationship. ( i am reminded of this by whoever addressed the old school you have 90 days!) i have simply chosen to approach relationships the same way. lol. ESPECIALLY since in BOTH arenas, folks DO NOT come in and tell you THE TRUTH. no one goes on an interview and say, i will be late everyday. as much as possible, i will try to shirk whatever responsibility you assign me. my SOLE objective if for you to PAY ME. lol.

    the same is true of relationships. because i am a relator, i must check in and see what the dealio is at the 30 day mark. i have learned that the devil will have you spend quality time in places you never should have been. so BEFORE i “catch feelings” i conduct a performance evaluation to see if all signs indicate moving into the 60 day mark makes sense for BOTH of us. lol. in doing so, most don’t make it past the 30 day probationary period. which incidentally, it is wise for there not to be any “benefits” prior to the passing of the 30 day probationary period. lol.

    Berrygirlfin, i enjoyed your comment immensely. you are speaking my language. so as not to distract the comment thread, if you would email me as time permits @ focusedpurpose@gmail.com as time permits. i have a few questions for you, if you don’t mind.

    excellent post as per usual Khadija. i will come again to check the balance of the comments. my contracts await my attention and i must go for now.

    blessings to you all..

  31. IRockIRoll says:

    I’ve tried to just observe and relate to these posts but I’ve decided to get all the way real with the Pookie & Ray Ray crew vs. Professional Black Men (&PRR vs. PBM from here on out).

    1). Out of all of the black women who are church goers and older, how much BETTER is the life of those who fathered P&RR vs. PBM? In other words (and NOT counting the girlfriends/wives), how often are these women taken grocery shopping? Having their home repairs taken care of by their sons? Taken out for Mother’s Day? Sees her grandchildren WITHOUT being the default babysitter? Has her son show up to her church WITH HIS FAMILY when she is honored or recognized? Has her SON or his FAMILY submit her for the church prayer list? Ain’t worried about a car ride to somewhere? … … … Yeah, I thought so.

    2) How often do these PBM take DOWN black men who are shaming us? In other words… on the internet comment boards where black women love to say no one else wants us – how often do you see black men saying that they DO want us… like we do for them? How many black men praise how good we look, how well we take care of them, how we have managed a community that has been abandoned? What blogs have been overtaken by black male trolls shaming BLACK MEN for their degnerate lifestyle choices like black women’s empowerment blogs have been under attack by black male trolls hindering our advancement? You don’t need a heart attack to die (black male blatant attacks). High blood pressure is a silent killer (quality black male silence). Hell, at least a heart attack will sometimes spur folks to action.

    3). HOW MANY OF THESE KNEEGROWS ONLINE TALK ABOUT HOW BLACK WOMEN SHOULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB, BUT NEVER MENTION THEIR LONG-THE-EFF-GONE-FATHERS BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T REALIZE THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN THE FIRST PLACE???? All caps b/c some of the black women out there do.not.get.it. As someone who grew up with RESPONSIBLE black men and REGULAR white men… the fact that these “professional kneegrows” don’t address that mass absenteeism is a MAJOR red flag. They think that it is A-OKAY to blame a woman for not raising her “kids” right and NOT address the fact that ole dude was MILES away!!!!! They completely excuse that stressor (BECAUSE THEY WANT THE SAME PASS), and roll on by and blame the woman. If the black male was as strong as he CLAIMS to be, then his kids would have NEVER seen that kind of drama. Central American males DIE on the border everyday trying to provide better futures. Most of the fathers of the dudes defending this mess couldn’t even send a LETTER. Shoot these days… a TEXT. Of ALL CLASSES.

    4) All of the BPM attentions to these types of blogs should be a RED FLAG that something is rotten in Denmark. I didn’t know about or visit any of the PBM rants and raves where they come up with theories and stories (honestly Niggalosophy) about how BW need to stay close until they kept coming onto these sites and trying to say something. I STILL haven’t visited them. Why? Well, what for??? All I saw when they have commented on any of the forums I visited is CR*P, and they never have any solutions. Honestly, even counting up the supportive comments leaves such a dearth compared with the negative.

    Yes there ARE some AMAZING black men out there. They are great. They exist. They are awesome. But let’s not lie. They ain’t the majority, or even a sizable minority. Even outside of P&RR. Real Talk.

  32. Everybody,

    I feel that it’s time to change gears and shift the focus back to ourselves (and off of Pookie and Undercover Professional Ray-Ray).

    So, I’m closing the comments to this post and publishing the next essay. It’ll be up in a minute or so.

    Expect Success!

  33. […] a recent conversation, a reader named Berrygirlfin said, THIS my sisters is in fact wonderland, to borrow from my […]