Catering To Damaged Black Men By Deliberately “Getting It Twisted”

During the course of several recent conversations about the No Wedding, No Womb campaign, I’ve heard some Black women make incredibly nonsensical and convoluted arguments in support African-American women continuing to have the majority of their children out of wedlock (oow). They are opposed to any suggestion that more (heterosexual) African-American women should get their childbearing choices back in sync with time-tested human norms. Specifically, the time-tested human norm of “no wedding, no womb.” They take this position despite the unmitigated catastrophe oow has caused for the African-American collective. Basically, according to them, marriage is for every other type of human woman except Black/African-American women.

As I said during Remove Grasshoppers From Your Social Networks, I’m not convinced these Black women sincerely believe the crazy arguments they’re making in support of oow. I don’t believe that most of these women sincerely:

  • Don’t understand that out of wedlock births (oow) and the single parenting that is the logical, predictable result of oow, has engulfed the African-American collective in destructive flames.
  • Don’t understand that sex is the leading cause of pregnancy, far ahead of in vitro fertilization and immaculate conception.
  • Don’t understand that several millennia of human experience have shown that human pair-bonding (also known as marriage), and the extended family obligations created by marriage, represent the best human practice for child-rearing.
  • Don’t understand that “programs” cannot replace family.
  • Don’t understand that the last few decades of “programs” have not worked; even in the context of a functioning economy. The economy is no longer functioning.
  • Don’t understand that the federal and state governments don’t have the money to pay for current “programs.” They certainly don’t have the money for additional “programs.” Nor is there any desire on the part of the rest of the US population to subsidize African-Americans’ dysfunction with additional programs to accommodate our mass, self-destructive refusal to form families.
  • Don’t understand that there’s already a time-tested, widely-known, and commonly-practiced human “program” that provides “support systems” for women and their children. It’s called marriage and (legitimate) family.
  • Don’t understand that, after 40+ years of our whining, other Americans are not going to rearrange their society to accommodate African-Americans’ refusal to form families. This restructuring won’t happen now, or any time in the foreseeable future. Other people will simply continue to leave us behind. To die in our foolishness.

Frankly, I don’t believe that many Black women are that stupid. Instead, I believe that many of them adopt these arguments because doing otherwise would mean the end of “nuthin’ but a brother” business as usual. Adhering to normal, human standards for mate selection and procreation would mean acknowledging that the vast majority of African-American males are unfit and unwilling to function as men by serving as competent protectors and providers.

Once an African-American woman acknowledges this fact, the next logical step is for her to expand her dating and marriage options to include non-Black men the global village. Doing that would require a woman to leave the (false) comfort zone of dealing with the dysfunctional collective of Black men.

Well, during a recent comment over at Halima’s blog (Black Women’s Interracial Relationship Circle), another blogger named Evia (blog host of Black Female Interracial Marriage Ezine) got right to the nitty-gritty about the motivations of these Black female No Wedding, No Womb opponents. Halima quoted part of Evia’s comment during her latest post,

Halima, virtually all of the confusion among bw regarding this issue and many others is due to bw contorting themselves to accommodate the damaged thinking and behavior of bm.

Since the bulk of black males in the West have adopted the thinking and behaviors that are out of sync with the norms of most cultures, societies and groups in the world, black women suicidally adjust their thinking and behavior to follow suit. This is THE pattern of behavior of the masses of bw.

For ex. I cannot imagine more than a handful (if even that many) of bw arguing that it’s fine for them to have massive numbers of children OOW by white men or Asian men. LOL! They would NEVER do that. It’s only because they’re having these children by black males who won’t marry them and assume the role of men and responsible fathers, that these women are making this foolish argument. Why? It’s because so many AA women and bw of that type have been programmed for centuries to adjust and (emphasis added by halima) be self-sacrificing for non-reciprocating, hateful bm..

Evia’s right, and I strongly urge you to read her entire comment in the comment section to that post. A lot of these Black female naysayers have all sorts of convoluted, fake-sophisticated arguments that boil down to one common denominator: They will tolerate and excuse anything at all to accommodate the non-functional masses of African-American males. Since their arguments are nonsensical and downright insulting to Black women’s basic humanity, I only have one question about these women.

How low will they go—and how twisted will they get it—to cater to damaged Black men?

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51 Responses to “Catering To Damaged Black Men By Deliberately “Getting It Twisted””

  1. vonnie says:

    her comment blew me away with how profound it was, she broke it WAY down!

  2. KM says:

    We’ll find out how low they will go real soon as the economy continues to tank and the DBRs get more and more desperate. Society will divest and put up walls: first the curfew, then officers patrolling certain areas and arresting anyone who ventures out after dark, then the fence, then the peace walls were the people who get to leave are carefully monitored and vetted then dumped back when they are done work.

    And when all of this happens, AA BW will find new ways to excuse DBM actions to the bitter end. The elite AAs will curse and tantrum about it but won’t lift a finger as the Titanic sinks.. unless when the peace walls go up, those politicians lose all of their seats because, these people are all criminals and have records, they can’t vote.

  3. Faith Dow says:

    I was JUST having this conversation with another blogging earlier today. Especially because there’s one particular RABID guard-dog BW who personally took issue LAST YEAR about my use of DBR to “protect” the BW-hating BM who’s her friend. She’s still complaining about it! She’s been on Twitter specifically targeting the BWE bloggers who’ve been supporting NWNW. She has sunk to a new low in making personal attacks.

    On the one hand some are now complaining that the all-around behavior has been poor but these women have been relentless and working in concert with a few BM bloggers – like that one who wrote the Harriet Tubman post to make crude comments and blatantly lie.

    Which is why I KNOW NWNW has had the effect of a molotov cocktail. Based on the comments in opposition I think we can write-off the majority – because we already know the black community is dead!

  4. SMH says:

    It is simple the women who buy into this belief system are more afraid of standing on their own value and worth – and as such will twist turn and tangle themselves in any direction to avoid being alone. People will act and vote against their own self interests if they lack an inherent sense of worth and value and base their sense of value on the opinion of others whose approval they seek.

  5. IRockIRoll says:

    Oh, it will be bad alright. I’ll put it this way, most of the women talking about the good black men out there are not married. Yeah, I said it.

    I know good black men. I know some GREAT black men. But since I have discernment and anyone with a paycheck that Uncle Sam knows about doesn’t equate to “Good Brotha”, I am ON TIME with how few of them there are. My Daddy is NOT a happy fan of white men (he ain’t a good brotha either but perhaps this will give this story more weight), and I STILL remember him catching some dudes try to “holla” at me in the mall in middle school. When we were in the parking lot, he told me, “Just don’t bring home no poor boys. I don’t care the color. Broke, okay. But Poor, you’ll have issues with his white family members”. I got the OKAY to date around due to the fact that he was P.O.’ed! that those near grown men were trying to pick up a middle school girl (and I looked 12 at most). At the height of Tu-Pac, Biggie, and whoever else was around nearly ALL of my black male relatives gave me a little “date who you want” speech. We (“we” being young black women in my family) ALL heard that. My relatives didn’t like what they saw out “on the streets”. And let me clarify, I have MOOOOOOORRRE than a few TRIFLIN’ Black male relatives. Even the triflin’ ones know what’s up. ESPECIALLY THE TRIFLIN’ ONES.

    The MAJORITY of black women I know married to GOOD black men, have told me point blank, “I GOT LUCKY!!!!!!!!”. YEP, said it again! The ones with good marriages, (I’ll speak on the others in a sec), have told me point blank, “If he died, or we divorced for whatever reason, my options would be OPEN”. If anything, I’ve heard from them that they don’t know as many couples black/black couples that aren’t filled with DRAMA, as the other types of combinations of marriages have.

    I don’t think these women understand just how hard Grandma en’dem are holding down the fort. Grandma en’dem helped to raise a lot of these fools. Grandma en’dem were the ones providing a couch/bed/home for a good number of the men who are damaged. Grandma en’dem provided the home that their parents came from, in a more supportive community. Grandma en’dem are supporting the NAACP. Paying for the church to function. Voting to keep certain politicians in office. Sending cookies and a card to jail. “Praying” for them. Grandma en’dem are the ones who are most likely to get some sympathy from the cops. From the judge. From the school. So to be clear, the damaged men we see now ARE THE BEST OF WHAT IS COMING OUT OF THE FUTURE BLACK COMMUNITY. This is as good as it will get from here.on.out. What MEN do these women think their daughters will marry? Actually, scratch that, it is obvious that they don’t even consider marriage a possibility for their daughters.

    The reason why I took your “grasshopper” post so seriously, is because it REALLY hit home for me (and I’ve been cutting people with “issues” out of my life as of late), is that when it HITS THE FAN, these women will be unprepared and grabbing on to/taking down ANYONE who they think will be able to save them. These women are NOT so far gone that they will go down willingly with the ship when the REAL-FALLOUT of all of these OOW children being raised in a downward spiraling economy where black Americans have no political clout comes home to roost. They are only pulling that mess because Welfare, WIC, school vouchers, subsidized housing, and some forms of affirmative action are still in affect. We need to WAKE UP.

    I wonder if people think peace walls are going to somehow coincide with Section 8, and landlords fixing sinks and plumbing. ANY type of functioning public schools. Scholarships that are as freely available as they are now. Uh, NO. It gets NO better from now on, and we need to RECOGNIZE this. For the women who are upset about the NWNW movement, I totally agree with your viewpoint. I want to thank these women for letting me know who NOT to collaborate with and who DOESN’T have my best interests at hand.

    • shocol says:

      I had a similar experience with my father. My father was also trifling and other things that I won’t get into here. However, he also made it clear, even though he wasn’t referring to IR dating, that bringing home a worthless man (i.e. BM) wasn’t an option. No matter what I think of my father today, that lesson has always stuck. As a result, I find it hard to empathize/sympathize with any BW whose standards in men lean towards, “Black skin and has a penis. Good enough.”

  6. Vonnie,

    Oh yes, Evia broke it ALL the way down.
    _____________________________________________

    KM,

    You said, “And when all of this happens, AA BW will find new ways to excuse DBM actions to the bitter end. The elite AAs will curse and tantrum about it but won’t lift a finger as the Titanic sinks.. unless when the peace walls go up, those politicians lose all of their seats because, these people are all criminals and have records, they can’t vote.”

    Yep, at which point it’ll be FAR too late. It’s already too late right now to reverse this permanent underclass trend.
    _______________________________________________________

    Faith,

    You said, “there’s one particular RABID guard-dog BW who personally took issue LAST YEAR about my use of DBR to “protect” the BW-hating BM who’s her friend. She’s still complaining about it! She’s been on Twitter specifically targeting the BWE bloggers who’ve been supporting NWNW. She has sunk to a new low in making personal attacks.

    On the one hand some are now complaining that the all-around behavior has been poor but these women have been relentless and working in concert with a few BM bloggers – like that one who wrote the Harriet Tubman post to make crude comments and blatantly lie.”

    As disgusting as that is, it’s preferable that enemies identify themselves. These various BW guard dogs “outing” themselves by demonstrating their willing to throw other BW and AA children’s futures under the bus has been an overall good thing. It’s good to know where folks stand.
    _________________________________________________

    SMH,

    You said, “It is simple the women who buy into this belief system are more afraid of standing on their own value and worth – and as such will twist turn and tangle themselves in any direction to avoid being alone.”

    Yep. All I have to say is, “A mind is a terrible thing to waste.”

    Expect Success!

  7. IRockIRoll says:

    The main women who are hollerin’ about good black men, either WANT one, or are RAISING one, no matter the age or current marriage status involved. By that I mean, black women in bad marriages WANT there to be good black men out there (in case they leave their marriage/relationship), or they want their sons to be perceived as a good black man. Where are all of the married black ladies who are talking about entire communities (notice I didn’t say 4-6 friends) of MARRIED black women who think this is silly? Notice, no one is talking about or demanding that people acknowledge good black women or good black daughters… because everyone KNOWS we EXIST. Who else is paying for things? Duh!

    These people are hollering for the end of NWNW because they don’t ACTUALLY know enough solid black couples to say that this movement has no need. Notice, they’re pointing to LGBT community needs and desires, to feminism, to the small number of black women (with means) who are adopting alone, the economy, etc… . What argument has been able to say that this movement isn’t necessary because so many black children are coming from stable family units WITHOUT marriage AND no government assistance??? I haven’t seen ONE. NOT A ONE. So with that info alone, you KNOW that this backlash is because HIT DOGS WILL HOLLA!

  8. **Warning: VERY Long Reply :-)**

    IRock,IRoll,

    Guurl, you said a whole lotta things that folks need to carefully mull over…

    You said, “So to be clear, the damaged men we see now ARE THE BEST OF WHAT IS COMING OUT OF THE FUTURE BLACK COMMUNITY. This is as good as it will get from here.on.out. What MEN do these women think their daughters will marry? Actually, scratch that, it is obvious that they don’t even consider marriage a possibility for their daughters.”

    I totally agree. The current crop of mostly non-protecting, non-providing AA males had mothers and grandmothers in their lives. What does anybody think future crops of AA males—who have been increasingly ALSO abandoned by their mothers in addition to their fathers, and sent to rotate among various female relative’s homes—will be like? From “Chicago’s Real Crime Story”:

    Yet a critical blindness links Obama’s activities on the South Side during the 1980s and the murder of Derrion Albert in 2009. Throughout his four years working for “change” in Chicago’s Roseland and Altgeld Gardens neighborhoods, Obama ignored the primary cause of their escalating dysfunction: the disappearance of the black two-parent family. Obama wasn’t the only activist to turn away from the problem of absent fathers, of course; decades of failed social policy, both before and after his time in Chicago, were just as blind. And that myopia continues today, guaranteeing that the current response to Chicago’s youth violence will prove as useless as Obama’s activities were 25 years ago.

    . . . In 1984, Obama’s first year in Chicago, gang members gunned down a teenage basketball star, Benjy Wilson.

    The citywide outcry that followed was heartfelt but beside the point. None of the prominent voices calling for an end to youth violence—from Mayor Washington to Jesse Jackson to school administrators—noted that all of Wilson’s killers came from fatherless families (or that he had fathered an illegitimate child himself). Nor did the would-be reformers mention the all-important fact that a staggering 75 percent of Chicago’s black children were being born out of wedlock. The sky-high illegitimacy rate meant that black boys were growing up in a world in which it was normal to impregnate a girl and then take off. When a boy is raised without any social expectation that he will support his children and marry his children’s mother, he fails to learn the most fundamental lesson of personal responsibility. The high black crime rate was one result of a culture that fails to civilize men through marriage.

    . . . The absence of a traditional two-parent family leaves children uncertain about the scope of their blood ties. One teen who attends the Roseland Safety Net Works’s after-school program thinks that she has more than ten siblings by five different fathers, but since her mother lives in North Carolina, it’s hard to pin down the exact number. Eight of the ten boys enrolled in Kids Off the Block, another after-school program, don’t know their fathers. “The other two boys, if the father came around, they’d probably kill him,” says Diane Latiker, who runs the program. If children do report a remote acquaintance with their father, they don’t seem to know what he does for a living.

    . . . The next stage in black family disintegration may be on the horizon. According to several Chicago observers, black mothers are starting to disappear, too. “Children are bouncing around,” says a police officer in Altgeld Gardens. “The mother says: ‘I’m done. You go stay with your father.’ The ladies are selling drugs with their new boyfriend, and the kids are left on their own.” Albert’s mother lived four hours away; he was moving among different extended family members in Chicago. Even if a mother is still in the home, she may be incapable of providing any emotional or moral support to her children. “Kids will tell you: ‘I’m sleeping on the floor, there’s nothing in the fridge, my mother doesn’t care about me going to school,’ ” says Rogers Jones, the courtly founder of Roseland Safety Net Works. “Kids are traumatized before they even get to school.” Some mothers are indifferent when the physical and emotional abuses that they suffered as children recur with their own children. “We’ve had mothers say: ‘I was raped as a child, so it’s no big deal if my daughter is raped,’ ” reports Jackson.

    The official silence about illegitimacy and its relation to youth violence remains as carefully preserved in today’s Chicago as it was during Obama’s organizing time there. A fleeting reference to “parental” responsibility for children is allowed, before the speaker quickly moves on to society’s more important role. But anything more specific about fathers is taboo.

    (emphasis added)
    http://www.city-journal.org/2010/20_1_chicago-crime.html

    You said, “The reason why I took your “grasshopper” post so seriously, is because it REALLY hit home for me (and I’ve been cutting people with “issues” out of my life as of late), is that when it HITS THE FAN, these women will be unprepared and grabbing on to/taking down ANYONE who they think will be able to save them. These women are NOT so far gone that they will go down willingly with the ship when the REAL-FALLOUT of all of these OOW children being raised in a downward spiraling economy where black Americans have no political clout comes home to roost. They are only pulling that mess because Welfare, WIC, school vouchers, subsidized housing, and some forms of affirmative action are still in affect. We need to WAKE UP.” (emphasis added)

    ITA. And this is critical. These BF NWNW naysayers are going to take A LOT of BW bystanders down with them once the mess hits the fan. This is why I’m happy they outed themselves as nuts. This makes it easier for the rest of us to get clear of them before the mess hits the fan!

    Expect Success!

    • ZooPath says:

      The mothers are starting to abandon their children, too. Those poor children being born just to suffer. SMHD…Well, Jesus be a peace fence and please keep the fruits of this sowing away from me come reaping time. I feel bad for these kids but they’re just going to grow into predators. Are these people purposefully trying to create a subhuman population? Between all the substance abuse during pregnancy, child abuse and neglect once they’re born these children aren’t going to be normal.

      • ph2072 says:

        “The mothers are starting to abandon their children, too.”

        Yes. (The same goes in all races even though we’re discussing Black people specifically.) It’s a bad situation ALL around. The children are screwed.

        • ph2072,

          NO, “the same” does NOT go on in all races. NOBODY else is doing any of this negative mess to the degree of AAs. Nobody. Also, other groups tend to have their dysfunction mostly concentrated among their lower class and underclass. Meanwhile, AAs across the economic/educational spectrum are engaging in—and cheerleading—dysfunction.

          Bottom line: Other people have problems, but NOBODY is jumping off the cliff like vast percentages of AAs.

          Expect Success!

    • ak says:

      Khadija:

      The next stage in black family disintegration may be on the horizon. According to several Chicago observers, black mothers are starting to disappear, too. “Children are bouncing around,” says a police officer in Altgeld Gardens. “The mother says: ‘I’m done. You go stay with your father.’ The ladies are selling drugs with their new boyfriend, and the kids are left on their own.”

      This was bound to happen because sooner or later at least some of the baby mamas will be like ‘Well if HE gets to go off and do whatever he wants to do, then why can’t I?’.

      Some mothers are indifferent when the physical and emotional abuses that they suffered as children recur with their own children. “We’ve had mothers say: ‘I was raped as a child, so it’s no big deal if my daughter is raped,’ ” reports Jackson.

      Woy!!!!! This has already happened actually. I remember reading on the internet about what the mother of one of the Dunbar Village rapists said to the press. She said that she was raped twice as a child and that because no one protected her and defended her against her rapes, that she didn’t understand the big deal people were making about the Dunbar Village woman and her son who were victimized.

      • AK,

        I also remember that bizarre “So a woman was raped, so what?” statement quoted in the media by one of the Dunbar Village victim’s neighbors. Well, unfortunately, we’ll be seeing more depraved BW like that particular demon.

        Expect Success!

    • ak says:

      Some mothers are indifferent when the physical and emotional abuses that they suffered as children recur with their own children. “We’ve had mothers say: ‘I was raped as a child, so it’s no big deal if my daughter is raped,’ ” reports Jackson.

      I meant to say that also this doesn’t surprise me as occasional stories of ‘running trains’ comes out of the DBR bc and it looks as if ‘train’ incidents have been coming out of there for possibly 50 years or so. Who knows? Also there are sadly some very ‘wrong’ black people out there who have a love affair with statutory rape.

      To them a white pre-teen girl, who you might see on America’s Most Wanted or Dateline etc., might be a rape victim, but a black pre-teen girl always ‘asked for it and knew what she was doing’. The black one isn’t a little innocent whose virtue is to be protected until her marriage, because for one thing there barely is any marriage in the bc anymore. But there are always lurking, spotless, and blameless predators though.

  9. IRockIRoll says:

    Again, Khadija, I want to THANK YOU for putting this info out there. Your blog, your book, your time and energy. You are SAVING LIVES.

    I’m going to be point.blank.honest. A GOOD portion of my relatives jumped off a cliff in the 90’s. I GOT LUCKY. I was one of my grandmother’s favorites, AND one of my grandfather’s favorites, mainly due to the fact that I didn’t do the rap thing that much (my mom wasn’t okay with it either, and after having to “grab the switch” a few too many times in 2nd-4th grades, I was over it too). I have personally seen when family members “give up” on someone who just couldn’t pull their weight or get their act together, but the most OBVIOUS lesson for me was seeing how the CHILDREN of those who couldn’t get their act together were treated. My dad DID NOT have his act together. AT ALL. Weeeeeellll, he did for a minute (that’s why my folks got married) but pulled the late 80’s black male tantrum and got out of pocket and… tales for another day. AnYway… regardless, even though my mom was a sympathetic figure in that relationship, my black female aunts and other extended family still saw my mom as an “enemy”. Even (shoot, especially) my grandma.

    Me, personally… NOPE. I was OFFICIALLY FAMILY. And I say this as having a cousin close in age who was NOT married into her parents messy breakup, and the difference in treatment was… noticeable. I ALWAYS knew that no matter WHAT was going on between my mom and my dad’s side of the family, when I turned up for Christmas at WHOEVER’S house… I had a present. When I had a recital… at least one aunt or uncle was coming. And even as a CHILD, I knew I could call up with a “Are you coming to my play?” because those were my relatives and an “occasional” child support check backed that up! My dad’s side of the family didn’t even talk to my mom for a MINUTE (well, two), but when it came to ME, they stepped in when he stepped out. That’s right! Provided CHILDCARE while not having a good relationship with my mom because I was OFFICIALLY FAMILY. I say this as someone who saw a woman who was in a years long relationship with a cousin almost turned away at Christmas with their son (the little boo wanted to see his dad on Christmas day) because it was a day for (wait for it…) FAMILY. No jokes.

    When it comes to MONEY. TIME. RESOURCES. and not prayers, people WILL differentiate between ex-wives and jump-offs as far as “a community” goes. As a community, we have LESS Money. LESS Time. LESS Resources. I AM ASSURED, that whatever precious little is left will NOT be squandered on tenuous connections when folks decide to get all the way real with it. They may end up as the most hard-liners of them all in needing proof that you may be able to share the last few crumbs of bread left to nibble.

  10. rainebeaux says:

    Make it plain, IRockIRoll; if not for Grandma, things would be at least 50 times worse. I should know, I grew up around a lot of these nuts (both genders).

    looks like I’ve written these folks off…

    I didn’t even get around to the DBRBM these women are *still* defending/coddling. I can’t be bothered…let me go round up some ants…

    • Rainebeaux,

      You’re doing some outstanding work over there (as I knew you would 🙂 ) {deep martial arts bow in salute}

      I loved it all, but especially the part during the first post where you said, “…there’s some livestock and actual mules somewhere looking at us with pity, I just know it;”

      {gales of laughter}

      Keep up the great work!

    • Arthur says:

      “a country mile and Orion’s Belt”? “get a clue out of layaway”?

      Thank you, Rainebeaux.

  11. Muse says:

    The criticism against NWNW has left me in awe. I now believe that most black people have gotten lost in the twilight zone. What’s even more disturbing is that there needs to be a movement in the first place to tell black women that it’s probably not a good idea to reproduce with low caliber men or have children oow. The idea of having a BABY with a loser makes me sick to my stomach. NWNW is starting from basics and teaching common sense principles to black women who may have no concept of what it means to have a functional family unit and support system. This goes to show you that the many black people have dysfunctional thinking when it comes to important life issues. Instead of providing valid criticism to the points made on NWNW, there are bunch of idiot black women foaming at the mouth and nitpicking instead of coming up with viable solutions that will elevate the lives of black women everywhere. All I’m hearing are lame straw-man arguments and black male victimization. This movement is about liberating black women from dysfunctional relationships and self image problems. Personally I’m beyond through with these types of Negros. If folks want to spend their time and mental energy engaging these lames then God bless you because I personally don’t have the patience or the time to debate backwards thinkers anymore. I’m done. My ship has sailed. I’ve even told everyone on my facebook page to shut up and keep their opinions about black women moving forward to themselves. I’m of the mindset at this point that if you aren’t for me then you are against me. No black woman needs to justify why she is taking steps to manifest her dreams and living a fulfilling life free of toxic creatures. My plans do not include elevating black men as a group. Clearly there are enough sister soldiers out there more than happy to take on that burden. If I happen to marry a black dude then great but he will already have his ish together. I don’t need a man-child to take care of.

    I do appreciate that NWNW will get some young girls thinking and possibly change their lives for the better. I believe that NWNW might be too late for many black women who have been indoctrinated but I have hope that young girls will get the message and start implementing some changes into their lives. I mentor teenage black girls during my free time between the ages of 12-16. I sent the website to all of them and gave them two weeks to read all the essays. I also assigned them homework to write an essay about what it means to have self respect when it comes to our social interactions. At our next luncheon we are going to have a discussion about their thoughts on NWNW and what emotions the movement may have invoked in them. We will also put a plan of action together so that they can take the necessary steps to accomplish their goals. I’m sick of young girls being turned into whores, mules, and mammies before they turn 18 because of the BS black women motto of give your all to everyone and be left with nothing but diabetes, high blood pressure, HIV, and a host of psychological disorders because they weren’t taught at a young age that you are the most important person in the world. I’ll keep you guys posted on the results.

    • ZooPath says:

      It’s awesome that you mentor little girls. Even more so that you’re willing to get real with them about one the greatest threats to their futures.

    • Muse,

      You said, “The criticism against NWNW has left me in awe. I now believe that most black people have gotten lost in the twilight zone. What’s even more disturbing is that there needs to be a movement in the first place to tell black women that it’s probably not a good idea to reproduce with low caliber men or have children oow. The idea of having a BABY with a loser makes me sick to my stomach. NWNW is starting from basics and teaching common sense principles to black women who may have no concept of what it means to have a functional family unit and support system. This goes to show you that the many black people have dysfunctional thinking when it comes to important life issues.”

      Yep. Intellectually, I already knew most AAs were totally out of touch with human norms. The NWNW backlash simply confirmed that belief. {shaking my head}

      Expect Success!

  12. Patricia Kayden says:

    It’s sad that so many Black women accept out of wedlock births as the norm. No other racial group does this. Unfortunately, I believe that the focus cannot be on those Black women who have already made their choice to have 10 children with 6 different baby daddies. The focus must be on the young Black females who have prospects of higher education and good jobs. It almost seems that a whole generation has been lost.

    But the future can be better. Up and coming Black females must be encouraged to do better. Sex is a wonderful thing, but having children is a lifelong commitment, which should be shared with a trustworthy partner. If you cannot find a man (Black, White or other) who will be a parent to his children, don’t have any children.

  13. Truth P. says:

    All of the comments are nothing but the truth.I read all this and it makes me very sad and deeply distraught for other black women.I wonder if they know that many of the men they self sacrifice/sabotage for HATE them?
    I have come to understand that it is necessary for me to form a new family and community of likeminded individuals.There are some people who are blood related to me and they are going to be left behind.They are going to perish.I am horrified and sad for them but when anyone is faced with the truth, and shown a way out, yet refuses to take it their blood is on their own hands.I know that there are women whose self esteem is so low that they don’t even believe that they deserve better or that it is at all possible for them to live better.For them I feel sad.I cannot be selfish though and focus all my energy on trying to save them because they won’t allow it.There are willing souls out there that desire a better way and they will use the information and make changes and move forward.They will be saved from the coming destruction.I have to save MYSELF because I still have alot of work to do on myself.Meanwhile,I will show,in the way I live my life, & tell other black women a better way to go.

  14. Neecy says:

    These BF idiots (for lack of a better term) will go the way of the dinosaurs -along with the dysfunctional Black males they support.

    The Black race is on its way to extinction in 5…4..3…2

    In the next 5-10 years the Black race will diminish slowly. More and more Black men are leaving and marrying out. These Blk female fools are still trying to come up with all kinds of excuses that this isn’t happening and those stats are just conspiracies to keep “black love” apart. LOL I wouldn’t be surprised if in 20 years Black people will be extinct or close to it. When you have the women of any race or culture supporting their own demise, its just a matter of time.

    At the end of the day, I believe evolution will take care of these fools.

    They are so backwards and stupid that they actually believe that just having babies in the Black community without marriage and commitments means that the Black race will still be alive and thriving. LOL they are completely ok with dysfunction in Black children as long as they are alive and breathing with Black skin. There was one on Christelyn’s blog who actually made a comment that if Black women stopped having OOW Black kids, that the Black race is doomed (or something to that affect). Can you believe that??? Then the idiot went further to ASK several questions on what kinds of things make it ok for someone to have kids??!! YES! These are the majority of Black female FOOLS running the Blk community. Ones who literally have to ask what constitutes having a child??? OMG. These FOOLS would rather create and produce a bunch of illegitimate crazy Black kids who will for the most part amount to nothing (b/c they do not have the proper resources and parenting to progress) than to keep their damn legs closed, find decent men who understand the concept of family, marriage and commitment to such. All b/c they are so Black male identified. I say let those idiots stay and keep fighting for men who are abandoning them by the droves.

    Between the BM who are running away from the Black community and Blk women and creating families and lifestyles with Non Blk women and the dysfunctional ones, those BF fools won’t be around long.

    For many, they are too indoctrinated to even see the forest for the tree in their eyes. They are on their way out and THEY KNOW IT. Instead of keeping their traps shut, they are determined to take as many Black women with them. Smart Black women realize that having a minority of non mentally challenged people in your group is far more progressive than having a majority of people who are clueless.

    I don’t even have the patience anymore to deal with these fools. Evolution will take care of them very soon.

  15. Nysee says:

    Khadija,
    I was looking in to my life and I asked my mother flat out why did you stay with him( her husband)? She said for the family.
    He was abusive toher and myself. I asked her was it worth to have your pysche tampered with?
    I realize that some women want a piece of man.
    I was reading your post that when women think abuse is the norm and then they can not see anything else, they will thnk that is the norm.
    So I am getting healed and not allowing no more DBR men or individuals in my circle.

  16. sisterlocgirl says:

    Wow. I keep reading these posts on your blog & the other BWE blogs and I have finally realized a very important difference between most of the participants and the NWNW detractors. These females ( they are not women, merely female gendered ) have actually lost the ” self preservation ” instinct that all humans are born with. I simply can not UNDERSTAND why anyone would knowingly deal with anyone who can barely contain their contempt of you. I had the misfortune of watching a 23 year old young woman die from pregnancy related complications ( i’m a suspecialty physician ). The girl was 23 years old, had 5 pregnancies, 3 children and was pregnant for a 6th time. She didn’t realize she was pregnant at 20 some odd weeks and came to the hospital ER with fever, chills and pus draining from her vagina. The fetus died in utero, and she developed septic shock after delivering the dead fetus. This girl left behind 3 children and is dead, DEAD AT 23! All these people complaining and rallying behind these irresponsible little black boys ( and they are boys, because men don’t behave like this )don’t want to deal with these harsh realities. How can you not realize you’re pregnant after missing your first period? How far into denial can you be? Is this what the so called BC feels is acceptable for our young girls and women? Thank God i’m not an OB/Gyn because I would see this same scenario play out far more often. This is the dreary future that some people want you to believe is good enough for you. Accept that BULLSH*T at your own risk ( sorry for the profanity, but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade ). [Khadija speaking: I did some light editing—I have a No Profanity policy here. But I do understand the disgust behind this particular use of profanity. I’m about to go to another blog and drop an extremely cold “splash of cold water” comment on one of these “abortion is genocide” nuts.]

    It may very well cost you your life Oh and BTW, the only folks who came to see this girl prior to her DEATH? Other young women, just like her. Her baby daddy was nowhere to be found. Let that sink in for a minute. This girl is DEAD and the deadbeat tool who knocked her up was nowhere to be found. IGNORANCE KILLS. Make no mistake about it, this is a life and death matter. This girl died of pregnancy related complications in 21st century America, not subsaharan Africa, not the jungles of Central America. No this happened in the most technologicaly advanced, purported richest country on earth. Think on his situation for awhile, and THEN explain how NWNW is limiting a black woman’s freedom to choose. My response to these psychotic anti NWNW black females? Talk that crap to the dead 23 year old and her 3 motherless and quite possibly parentless children.

  17. Patricia Kayden,

    Yes, we have to talk over the nuts’ heads and address the girls and young women who haven’t been infected with the madness yet.
    ___________________________________________

    TruthP.,

    I hear you. I went through my own grieving process. Both for the overall AA collective, and for those (biological) relatives and acquaintances that I KNOW will get left behind. And then, slowly, I moved on to a place of calm acceptance about these matters. And then I moved forward from there to seek my own slice of the abundance pie.
    ____________________________________________

    Neecy,

    In my view, the Black “race” won’t disappear. After all, the African continent has zillions of Black folks. What I believe will happen is that the AA ethnic group will disappear from the US. Similar to how Caribbean-origin British folks are disappearing—mostly because of Caribbean-British BM’s extemely high IRR rate. What’s happening with Caribbean-British folks is a sneak preview of what will become of the AA collective. West Indian Black men’s interracial relationship rate in the UK has reached 48 percent. (See the BBC Caribbean.com story from January 19, 2009, The Mixed Race March in Britain.)

    The only part that might be different is the amount of crime. I doubt that Caribbean-Brits have reached the level of outright chaos and savagery as prevails in AA residential areas.

    Also, as long as they’re careful not to intermix with AAs, the foreign Blacks that have come to the US will be and do alright.
    __________________________________________________

    Nysee,

    I salute you as you continue moving onward and forward. {deep martial arts bow}
    __________________________________________________

    Sisterlocgirl,

    That’s an appalling—and totally unnecessary—horror story. I’ve heard similar disguting things from a friend who’s an oby/gyn nurse. From what she’s said, it’s often even worse when the AA baby daddy is present—some of these creatures want to have “their boys” up in the delivery room!** [I suppose for bragging purposes.] She’s had to tell several “Sheniquas” that they did NOT have to give permission for these other males to be in there, looking at her privates. There have also been tales of homeless AA baby daddies that were only at the hospital pretending to be concerned so they could score some free hospital food (given by baby mama).

    It’s all sickening. And totally bizarre compared to the overall childbirth experiences of women from every other ethnic group in this country.

    [**My friend has put her foot down about various situations with the “oow baby factory” Sheniquas: (1) the unrelated men (baby daddy’s “boys”) in the delivery room requests/demands; and (2) Sheniquas who were asking her how certain “pretty-sounding” medications were spelled—with the intention of naming their babies after the medications. My friend has point-blank told several of these Sheniquas, “No, I won’t spell the medication for you—DON’T do that.” {very long sigh}]

    Expect Success!

    • Neecy says:

      WOW Khadija,

      Didn’t realize the IR percentage of BM in the UK was that high. But its common knowledge that usually most African, Caribean and UK Black women usually don’t have as many hang ups about dating Non Black males as American Black women. So I wonder how much this has affected those women. But that is really interesting. i think the writing is on the wall – clearly.

      I Also believe that BM in America will also reach that percentage of marrying out and there will still be American BW in denial. SMH

      • Neecy,

        Yep. From browsing through the links to crazy conversations that readers sometimes send me, what I find interesting is that the BM Internet Ike Turners of Caribbean descent who scream about so-called “Black love” NEVER seem to be aware of their brethren’s 48% IRR rate! Nor do they have a problem with it once they are told of it. AND, from what I’ve heard from several UK-based BW, the next census count in the UK will most likely show an increase in this rate! The all-Caribbean child is going to disappear from the UK.

        It seems to me that instead of worrying about what BW are or aren’t doing, these particular Internet Ike Turners need to worry about their fellow West Indian males.

        Expect Success!

        • SS says:

          As an immigrant from one of those islands I can attest to this. Personally, I thought colorism was just a West Indian man’s curse. We grew up with the message that red/light skin color and fine hair texture meant everything to a West Indian male. It doesn’t surprise me that the rate is so high, once these males were finally granted access to white and other non-black women. The only good thing about this is the fact that West Indian women don’t tend to have the hang ups about dating out as African American women. I believe we don’t have the reluctance because we often did not live in societies that were totally controlled by white males i.e. judiciary, police force etc. The only prejudice we experienced came from color struck West Indian men.

          • SS,

            You said, “As an immigrant from one of those islands I can attest to this. Personally, I thought colorism was just a West Indian man’s curse. We grew up with the message that red/light skin color and fine hair texture meant everything to a West Indian male.”

            Well, these color-struck West Indian men have PLENTY of company among AA males. In fact, AAs are going back—waay back, as in the 1800s and wannabe-quadroon/octoroon gatherings (the websites for self-proclaimed, “don’t you dare call me Black” so-called “biracials”)—in terms of colorism. We just have dishonest, new labels for our colorism.

            Expect Success!

    • ak says:

      Ibuprofeniqua? LOL LOL

  18. Lorraine says:

    Khadija and posters, I am so pleased at the solidarity of common sense thinkers you have. I don’t often post, but I lurk and you never fail to disappoint. I like to maintain a drama free FB page and don’t take issues to others. But I finally got fed up with a trouble maker on the NWNW site and shared some of my sentiments. This particular person was just hoping the founder would say that the religious right was sponsoring NWNW. I mean, who else but conservative Repubican, conservative nuts case, self hating, race traitor sellouts could be behind such a movement? She then asked if the founder would be willing to advocate sex ed and access to birth control to which a hearty Yes was replied. I guess she went on her way, but I chimed in anyway.

    Then today I saw that Deborrah Cooper posted a youtube vid because she was fed up with so many hateful women saying “I had my baby and it was hard, but I did it and you can too.” and even more of this type of garbage.

    I just had a short response along these lines: ” I don’t believe for one moment if some of the fathers would have asked some of the baby mommas to marry them, nobody would keep them from breaking their necks getting to the alter. They are mad because the baby daddys left them to be with someone else or to keep on procreating with other baby mamas.

    They fell for the possibility of marriage or hanging on to the guy and got used in the process. They delight in the thought of someone else going through what they did. Some even encourage their own daughters to repeat the cycle and that is so sad. They settle for the bums and dbrs, having given up hope and let anyone into their homes around their young children. This branches off into to so many areas, but we will just deal with this one. Stop encroaching your own self hate and failure onto the younger women and girls who may have a chance to live a fufilling life. The same life that is taken from them during their teenage years or young twenties when the world is available to them. They will lose hope and stop dreaming of the wonderful futures they could have had, but can’t because they are now baby mommas caring for a baby after having dropped out of high school.”

    That was my 2 cents worth which pails in comparison to the scholarly and profound discussion on this and a few other bwe blogs.

    One more thing, I have seen some criticism of that “stupid NWNW theme song… that most black people won’t even listen to”. I just have to chuckle at that one. Far more like it than dislike it. And it is getting some air play. It was written to get the attention of the young folks so they could keep it in mind if and when the time came. “I know you want it, but No Wedding No Womb.” Simple.

    Thanks for your truth. Keep up the good work sis.

    • Lorraine,

      You’re welcome and thank you for your kind words and ongoing support; I truly appreciate it.

      You said, “Then today I saw that Deborrah Cooper posted a youtube vid because she was fed up with so many hateful women saying “I had my baby and it was hard, but I did it and you can too.” and even more of this type of garbage.”

      Oh yes, Ms. Cooper laid it out! I watched that video today and she’s absolutely right about so many things, including:

      (1) The gaping emotional void that fatherlessness creates, including the dangers this creates for daughers. So many fatherless teenage girls are vulnerable to sexual exploitation by older, adult men because they’re so hungry for the male attention that other girls get at home from their fathers. Pimp and pedophile types of males look for these male-attention-hungry teenage girls.

      As she pointed out, even when they don’t fall into the clutches of being sexually exploited by an adult male, these girls grow up to have extra difficulties in their relationships with men. As she noted, these girls can and do grow into young women who are educationally and professionally accomplished, but have extremely destructive romantic lives. I feel that fatherlessness is a large part of why we see so many professional and otherwise accomplished AA women take up with BM felons.

      As Ms. Cooper said, a girl’s father serves as her first standard for assessing the future men in her life. As she said, fatherless girls usually have very LOW standards for assessing men. Because there’s a blank space where their father was supposed to be. And silence where their father’s feedback was supposed to be.

      (2) NWNW is NOT directed toward those BW who already had their life opportunity wings clipped by having an oow child. It’s geared toward those Black teenage girls and young women who haven’t already suffered that fate. As Ms. Cooper said to the crabs in a barrel, hating, grown BW with oow kids, “This is NOT about you. Really, it isn’t.”

      (3) I knew we had plenty of FOUL, despicable, “hateration-involved” AA women among our ranks. I just didn’t know how low SO MANY of these females would go! [It doesn’t feel right to call them “women.”] Ms. Cooper is absolutely right when she says that these NWNW naysayers are hateful crabs in a barrel who WANT to see young Black girls and women get caught up—the same way they fell for the okey-doke and got caught up! This is what has turned my stomach about these “misery demands company” heifers.

      It’s disgusting and downright evil to sabotage AA girls’ futures by deliberately giving them destructive advice.

      And the ants went on with their work.

  19. Karen says:

    “Peace Walls”

    In our own hemisphere is a preview of what is coming our way. To the reading audience (AA Women and Girls), please take note of this and if you are in a “high-risk” area then please take action to escape as time is running out!

    http://articles.cnn.com/2009-12-09/world/brazil.ecowall_1_shantytowns-rio-wall?_s=PM:WORLD

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8343311.stm

    Whatever the reasons that have been officially given, the fact remains that these walls are being constructed.

    • Neecy says:

      How soon before you think this happens in the USA? Especially as the economy keeps disentigrating.

      • i don’t know what states other people are from, but i live in massachusetts and the democrats need the black vote. i don’t see that EVER happening here.

        • Temporarily dipping back into this conversation:

          Baystate Blogger,

          Welcome aboard! 🙂

          You said, “i don’t know what states other people are from, but i live in massachusetts and the democrats need the black vote. i don’t see that EVER happening here.”

          Don’t the Democrats in Detroit (and Michigan overally) “need the Black vote”? And yet, Detroit’s mayor is razing up to 1/4 of the city.

          The other reasons why the Democrats in particular know that they can get away with anything regarding AA voters is because:

          (1) We’re still caught up in “lesser evil” voting. We’ll vote for any Democrat in name only (DINO) to avoid having the Republic boogeyman get elected. Even when there’s NO meaningful difference between the DINO and the Republican candidate.

          (2) Once certain things are done, inertia tends to keep them done.

          (3) Five years after Katrina, AA voters across the country have allowed ALL politicians (Black and non-Black) to “move on” from even mentioning the people who are still displaced; or the damage that still hasn’t been repaired. By letting all of these folks ignore the Katrina fallout, we’ve trained them that it’s okay by us to literally ignore us to death. This includes Black politicians. This includes Pres. Obama.

          Expect Success!

    • Karen,

      Thanks for the links, I’ve moved your comment up to the “front page” by quoting it in the next post. 🙂 The thought occurred to me that there might be a significant number of new readers who weren’t present for the previous conversations about these matters at the previous blog.

      Expect Success!

  20. Nysee says:

    Khadija,
    I realize this situation is sink or swim.
    No more excuses. I was thinking about what you have said regarding programs. BW need to ASAP look to passive incomes because no more will these programs even when the econo,y was good , these over worked and under paid socail workers are going to start venting and letting people know that we have to have other options becasue unfortunately, they really feel the brunt work.
    Keep up the excellent post.

    • Nysee,

      Thank you for your kind words; I truly appreciate it. You said, “BW need to ASAP look to passive incomes…”

      Now THAT’S what I’ve been talking about in the specific context of the “writing biz” posts here! 🙂 But I believe that BW need to develop as many different passive income streams as possible. There have always been people who lived well and made huge sums of money even in economic depressions. With the new technology (internet, electronic banking, etc.), all sorts of new opportunities are available.

      But the catch is that folks have to be aggressive in seeking out and creating these opportunities for themselves. The days of being a passive job-holder with a “good job” are over.

      Expect Success!

  21. T says:

    Who is actually surprised by the walls coming up? In actuality, no one should be. I discussed this with friends of mine not too long ago. Although they balked at the idea, I was reminded again of the reality of this on a smaller scale just a few days ago.

    I remember a road passing by one of the poorer areas of town, before the local government decided to re-route that road away from that neighborhood. If you see that neighborhood now, there is no road leading to or from the entrance (wherever that is/was). This neighborhood is practically sealed in, as it were.

    Everywhere I look, the city is taking over desolate areas, gentrifying them, and relocating displaced citizens to another part of town-the part of town where there are few resources to make even a small living. I believe that this very part of town will be among the first to get “peace walls.” And the peace walls that go up will make the eco-walls in Brazil look small in comparison. I predict that these walls will be thick enough and high enough to contain the people who live there, effectively separating them from the rest of society.

    I say all that to say this: When you put walls up, the intention is to separate, then exterminate. I know that sounds extreme, given the nature of this conversation, but I always felt that way.

    • T,

      You said, “I remember a road passing by one of the poorer areas of town, before the local government decided to re-route that road away from that neighborhood. If you see that neighborhood now, there is no road leading to or from the entrance (wherever that is/was). This neighborhood is practically sealed in, as it were.”

      Yep. In places all across the country, (disruptive) poor folks are being marooned.

      You said, “I say all that to say this: When you put walls up, the intention is to separate, then exterminate. I know that sounds extreme, given the nature of this conversation, but I always felt that way.”

    • ak says:

      Native American reservations were the first sort of ‘peace wall’ type of suggestion in this country. The people had to move to and be ‘sealed off’ on land that wasn’t that good to live off of agriculturally.

  22. **Everybody: Please hold your thoughts about peace walls until the next post—which should be up later tonight or tomorrow**

    Expect Success!

  23. shocol says:

    Khadija said…

    Don’t understand that, after 40+ years of our whining, other Americans are not going to rearrange their society to accommodate African-Americans’ refusal to form families. This restructuring won’t happen now, or any time in the foreseeable future. Other people will simply continue to leave us behind. To die in our foolishness.

    Amen. A pet peeve of mine regarding many NWNW opponents is trying to spin feces into gold. As if anyone but silly AA is really buying that the OOW rate and the destruction of the AA family is a logical, rational, functional, but avant-garde, ahead of its’ time, movement. Just a mess.

    I also say that if, and that’s a big if, white American society ever decides to abandon the concept and practice of marriage, it will never be implemented the way it happens in black America. It won’t be chaotic, destructive, and dysfunctional.

    Frankly, I don’t believe that many Black women are that stupid.Instead, I believe that many of them adopt these arguments because doing otherwise would mean the end of “nuthin’ but a brother” business as usual.

    I also don’t believe that many Black women are that stupid. At least that is my personal experience as an AA woman. It was really shocking to come online to BWE blogs and see the amount of backwards thinking AA women. Of the women I know, regardless if they have OOW children or not, NOBODY is turning up their noses at the idea of marriage or committed partners. And the ones who have OOW children are too busy trying to stay afloat or get ahead, to run around trumpeting the never married single mother model as the ideal.

    • shocol,

      You said, “A pet peeve of mine regarding many NWNW opponents is trying to spin feces into gold. As if anyone but silly AA is really buying that the OOW rate and the destruction of the AA family is a logical, rational, functional, but avant-garde, ahead of its’ time, movement. Just a mess.”

      ITA! “Spinning feces,” and “just a mess,” indeed. Hear, hear!

      You said, “I also say that if, and that’s a big if, white American society ever decides to abandon the concept and practice of marriage, it will never be implemented the way it happens in black America. It won’t be chaotic, destructive, and dysfunctional.”

      Indeed. I’m always amazed to hear idiotic “White folks have oow too” types of arguments. Let me say this loud and clear for those who don’t know: White Americans are NOT going to follow AAs in jumping off the oow cliff! They care too much about their progeny and collective future to ever do that in the percentages (as in majority of births) that AAs are doing.

      Expect Success!

  24. ***Note to Readers***

    In making this new site the kind of project that’s sustainable for me over the long-run, I’ve had to streamline how I handle certain things. The comments section is one of them. What this means is that I’ll give substantive responses to those folks who enter the conversations early (as I did across the board at the previous blog).

    After each post is a couple of days old, I’ll generally continue to publish new comments from readers. (That meet the commenting guidelines as set forth at the previous blog—those who are unfamiliar can read the comment “box” at the previous blog.)

    But, after a each post is a couple of days old, I generally WON’T continue responding to new comments.

    In other words, I’ll continue to publish comments to this post, but I’m not going to reply to any more comments in this thread. FYI. Please feel free to talk among yourselves!

    And the ants went on with their work!

  25. “I cannot imagine more than a handful (if even that many) of bw arguing that it’s fine for them to have massive numbers of children OOW by white men or Asian men.” would they?

    This question should shut up most of opponents of NWNW. Would they advocate it if they were not procreating with BM. I can’t believe I didn’t read this post long before! Now I understand why I was called an “uncle tom self hating house negro.” They’d rather be alone and struggling than give any non-bm what they think belongs to the bm. even if he’s DBR